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Klyde's Rogue Guide [The Basics]


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#76 ShimHearts

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:07 PM

useful to have kind of? probably just 1 point if you plan to go back and do anything at all
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#77 heonar

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:56 AM

Hello =) im trying to go for a pve/pvp build if u could check my skills build

http://www.ro2skills...0dBrfeCdFrbeBbn

and also if 33/33/32 str/agi/vit would be a good build for the same purpose =)

thanks in advance =)

Edited by heonar, 13 May 2013 - 10:17 AM.

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#78 mitilo

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:06 AM

Hi, this build 41/41/0 (str/agi/vit) is good for rogue focused on dmg/critical?
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#79 glock47

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:30 PM

Hi Klyde ! This guide is awesome :p_love:

I'm currently going for this build with my rogue: http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543

What do you think ? Is it viable with a 51 Agi, 27 Str ? :hmm:

Thanks for this guide :p_laugh:
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#80 ShimHearts

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:08 PM

Hi Klyde ! This guide is awesome :p_love:

I'm currently going for this build with my rogue: http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543

What do you think ? Is it viable with a 51 Agi, 27 Str ? :hmm:

Thanks for this guide :p_laugh:

27/51 works perfectly fine as well, I think you would overall lose damage output as a rogue though,
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#81 glock47

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 11:09 PM

27/51 works perfectly fine as well, I think you would overall lose damage output as a rogue though,


Thanks for your remark. I'll go for a 40/40 then :p_idea:
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#82 KIyde

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:12 AM

Hi Klyde ! This guide is awesome :p_love:

I'm currently going for this build with my rogue: http://ro2base.com/b...310543.22310543

What do you think ? Is it viable with a 51 Agi, 27 Str ? :hmm:

Thanks for this guide :p_laugh:


Looks great to me, Have fun!
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#83 xxalucard

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 02:49 AM

Posted this in another thread but I'd appreciate any feedback:

http://www.ro2base.c...310238.22310238


- I dropped mark of death since I found out it sucks (rogue skills only = sucks IMO, especially for how short it lasts and how long the CD is) (Oh, and it can miss).

- I put a point into rolling cutter because of the utility to [luckily] poison a group of adds before going back to single target DPS. In PvP it is very useful to quickly reveal a class that hides on you mid or pre-combat.

- I maxed hide, despite the majority's stigma against it, because I ran out of wind elixers. (And trust me, all of you will run out too.)


Hide without wind elixers is terrible in both PvP and PvE. In PvP especially (which is what I like using my Rogue for), anyone that is skilled will spam AoE's where they think you are. If you only have Level 1 Hide and no wind elixers... well... it won't be difficult to know where you are at the start of a duel or if they just saw you in the Colosseum. You'll get revealed every time with no chance to be sneaky.

In PvE, the speed helps a lot for RHD end-boss runs & using a proc'd combo mastery skill (usually moonlight drive) on a mid-to-distant monster. There are also situations I'll use smoke bomb as a threat-reset (or when the boss randomly decides to attack me non-stop...) and still be able to get out of an AoE circle-of-death that may appear (such as Leviathan's tidal wave).

You can only use your guardian once in awhile... and... when you have - no more - wind elixers (a fate doomed to everyone in the near-future), level 1 hiding sucks worse than dylan ryder.


- I maxed Mark of Genocide against my belief that it isn't worth it. This is because at the higher level events (PvE arena, Baphomet Raids), people are jerks.

99% of the time they are the internet tough guys that sport their own custom-colored phantom capes, and act like they're always in an MLG tournament.

These people can and WILL boot you for a lot of stupid reasons... and one of them is that you haven't maxed MoG.

(On the other hand, no one seems to care if you use Mark of Death or not... probably because it sucks)


- 4/5 Crescent Moon actually serves a PvE purpose as well as PvP, since a lot of times I use the utility to help out the priests / sorcs that get attacked by adds to buy some time for more heals & help lower the damage a tanks taking. 30 seconds is really fast compared to the initial minute, and I find that whether in PvE, the colosseum, or even a duel, that extra stun can mean a win that otherwise wouldn't have happened.



Besides looking for feedback on the build, I actually had some questions on what runes to use. I like the guide a lot-- the rune comments were a little vague though; saying "Str / Agi / Vit" doesn't really explain which one to choose. What runes do you use, if I may ask?

I've been thinking hard about it and I actually don't know if I should go pure STR runes or pure VIT runes-- and this is considering I have the best gear (I don't yet), seeing as how the extra hp or attack can be equally viable still. Also, does anyone know how much actual damage (per hit) all str runes would give? (I don't consider AGI runes because when unstable doping procs we have 40% crit, and around ~20% base with maxed MoG...so adding up to 1% crit will be an "in my head" thing if it's even doing anything or not)

I know it might be preference...but can you tell me what runes -you- use? I only ask because from your guide I can easily see you're an experienced rogue and would like to copy you.

Copying pros is how I got good at halo & street fighter, so I figured it could work here too.



Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post

Edited by xxalucard, 20 May 2013 - 03:00 AM.

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#84 KIyde

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 05:19 AM

- I dropped mark of death since I found out it sucks (rogue skills only = sucks IMO, especially for how short it lasts and how long the CD is) (Oh, and it can miss).


Not sure how MoD can Miss, but if you really can't find it useful as I do, then I don't blame you, there are many others like you. I like to combine MoD with Str or Agi Boost Potions for the extra 100 damage/crit for those exact 30 seconds (at level 50 of course). You'd be surprised how much it helps, but again... Too many people think MoD is useless, so I'm not going argue about it.

Hide without wind elixers is terrible in both PvP and PvE. In PvP especially (which is what I like using my Rogue for), anyone that is skilled will spam AoE's where they think you are. If you only have Level 1 Hide and no wind elixers... well... it won't be difficult to know where you are at the start of a duel or if they just saw you in the Colosseum. You'll get revealed every time with no chance to be sneaky.


If this is happening to you then it means you're not hiding early enough. There's no way a person is going to pay attention to a single Rogue in a match with 30, 24, 18, 12, and 6 people. I use Hide level 1 and haven't had a problem with it yet.

- I maxed Mark of Genocide against my belief that it isn't worth it. This is because at the higher level events (PvE arena, Baphomet Raids), people are jerks.


It's not that they're jerks, it's just good gesture. As a Rogue, you don't really have much to offer since they can easily replace you with another Ranger and the Raid party will go better than okay (Sucks to say, but it's true). A 2% Crit buff is the least you can offer, but this is just my opinion anyways because I like teamplay.

- 4/5 Crescent Moon actually serves a PvE purpose as well as PvP, since a lot of times I use the utility to help out the priests / sorcs that get attacked by adds to buy some time for more heals & help lower the damage a tanks taking. 30 seconds is really fast compared to the initial minute, and I find that whether in PvE, the colosseum, or even a duel, that extra stun can mean a win that otherwise wouldn't have happened.


I don't bother maxing it. By the time I need to use a 2nd one, I would already have used Dirty Plan, which is why I didn't max it. Glad it works for you, though.

Besides looking for feedback on the build, I actually had some questions on what runes to use. I like the guide a lot-- the rune comments were a little vague though; saying "Str / Agi / Vit" doesn't really explain which one to choose. What runes do you use, if I may ask?


I use Agi and Str runes. I find the boost of both the Attack and Crit more than the 30 HP 1 +5 Vit rune gives me.
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#85 Velouce

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 07:21 AM

If I may add my personal opinion too:

If this is happening to you then it means you're not hiding early enough. There's no way a person is going to pay attention to a single Rogue in a match with 30, 24, 18, 12, and 6 people. I use Hide level 1 and haven't had a problem with it yet.


I think the whole idea of using hide for running away is wrong. If I'm chased, I rather fight till the end than waste 1 smoke bomb, and get revealed one second later because I am either under debuff, am between 2 attacks of at least 1 person chasing me, or get revealed by a mob (which will - as soon as it starts attacking you, never ever stop until either you or it dies).

I find it quite useful to use Hide 3 for kill stealing. It's impossible to chase someone in Hide 1, and almost everyone runs away when his life lowers, meaning you have to follow in order to get the killing blow. They wont run away if they're caught by traps/ stuns or whatever, but if they aren't - even better for you, easier to get the final blow with Dark Illusion instead of other chasing people, since they have to attack from the distant.

The other thing is, you really have to be fast, and that also means, finding a victim fast, this requires you to move fast too, while Hide lvl1 takes a lot of time for walking, eventually missing some events. Of course, if you have the money to invest into speed elixirs (those that give 10min move buff), it's questionable if Hide really should be maxed. But personally, I really dislike people who pay 2 win (like using permanent move buff or healing their HP from zero to max with those spinels. I had opponents who used over 5 of them while fighting me. I find it kinda lame, if someone does that. In a 1:1 fight in Colo, if I survive the battle without using these items, getting my opponent's HP down the 5th time in a row, it just steals my time instead of getting a kill I deserve more than enough already. Actually it also steals my opponent's time and also his money, so wth...).


It's not that they're jerks, it's just good gesture. As a Rogue, you don't really have much to offer since they can easily replace you with another Ranger and the Raid party will go better than okay (Sucks to say, but it's true). A 2% Crit buff is the least you can offer, but this is just my opinion anyways because I like teamplay.


Can't agree on this. My guild mates practically beg me to give them crit buff whenever possible (buff party before Colo, Raids, sometimes farming). I wrote it in a different thread already, but I'm pretty sure that 2% crit are not just meaning you crit for 2% higher chance. When the crit buff by Unstable Doping procs, I reach like 42% Crit, but I crit almost with every hit, not just for a ~2/5 chance.

Also imho it's a big disbelieve that archers are equal or even better DPS than Sins/ Rogues. The difference is, that Rogues and Sins can't attack the opponent permanently, depending on how good the MT plays (like moving from AoE fields, grabbing threat when necessary / not changing the direction the mob looks into all the time etc. etc.). This + a skilled Rogue/Sin deal damage like a beast. So far I was never outdamaged by any ranger (or anyone else :P). And then again, I don't understand why people underestimate DPS, it is absolutely necessary to have a good DPS because certain mobs have to be killed fast in order to survive their rages / AoEs / etc.


I don't bother maxing it. By the time I need to use a 2nd one, I would already have used Dirty Plan, which is why I didn't max it. Glad it works for you, though.


Probably depends on the playing style, and then on certain situations. I use Crescent Moon as "Opener Burst". Especially versus Priests, in order to keep them from healing, or Warriors to knock them out before they do the same to you, or Rangers/Sorcs/Wiz to prevent them from kiting. But I also think that 40, or maybe even 50seconds cooldown should work. I mean, Crescent Moon really invites other players to steal your kills, and I can't count how many times I wasted my time on another player, getting his HP down just to see someone else interfering, getting the final blow. And this, while we're supposed to be those nasty KSers.

BTW in terms of getting the final blow, I noticed that Moonlight Drive is enormously useful. I think in most cases, using this skill to finish off a player, which is attacked by many others, you will get the kill thanks to the fast repeated damage / eventually the high damage at the end of the skill. Also if someone tries to run, this skill can finish him off because it will continue dealing the whole damage, no matter what - even if the opponent ran away, and - though yet to be confirmed - even if you die in the animation. I experienced this many times: I die while attacking someone with Moonlight Drive, the animation stops, you wont see damage, the opponent has like 1k-1,5k HP left when you died, but still dies and you get the kill count. It might have been poison, but this happened too many times for me now to believe poison was the cause. Anyways, I always assumed Moonlight Drive being useless in PvP because everyone told so. This might count for 1:1 fights (althought, if the timing is right, it's really useful in 1:1 too), but in Colo it's really a great skill.


I use Agi and Str runes. I find the boost of both the Attack and Crit more than the 30 HP 1 +5 Vit rune gives me.


Someone here mentioned that at a certain breakpoint, AGI (for Crit) becomes better than STR. But I really don't know how much attack is needed for this breakpoint. ATM I'm far from reaching the mentioned 5k attack power.

Right now I mainly use VIT runes. Someone here said you get to 6k+ HP easily with Bapho / PvE gear, but I have no idea how this should work. In fact, I have almost my complete normal Raid set and even some Hard Raid parts, but I merely reach the 5k.

If you don't have friends who always do Raids with you at fixed times, I'd suggest using VIT runes to get invited by people you don't know. At least until you reach like 5,5k HP (that's what I see when I look at the requirements, set for certain Hard Raid Parties). After that, I'd start switching to STR/AGI.

Edited by Velouce, 21 May 2013 - 07:40 AM.

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#86 KIyde

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

I'm not going to quote since your posts are kinda long but:

1) Not sure where you're getting that I use Hide to run away, I never have since that's not what it's for. The only time I use Smoke Bomb is between my first and second death per round. Also the colo room is relatively small, if you can't catch up to someone with Hide level 1 then you're not properly using map since it's a big circle, not a line...

2) Means your Rangers aren't geared as well as you. You can compare the Bows to Daggers, they have a more attack by standard, and as you said mobility. It's not about a good tank, it depends on the boss. Can't stay still while fighting Bapho obviously. And bringing up Unstoppable doping is irrelevant since, I specifically mentioned on this guide that Mark of Geno is for party members, not you. Not sure we're on the same page here.

3) As you said, playstyle. Edit: Also, no idea who said Moonlight Dance is useless in PvP, it's one of the best skills. Perfect for people trying to run away, people that think otherwise are not properly using Rogues.

4) I don't use Vit Runes because I don't find the 30 HP per Rune useful. I don't usually party with Pugs so I wouldn't know, but anyone that judges a character base on HP on itself is an idiot. No idea how you're barely reaching 5k as well, I'm 4/6 on Raid equipment and I have 5.6k HP without Blessing, and 0 Vit Runes.

Edited by KIyde, 21 May 2013 - 09:57 AM.

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#87 Velouce

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 12:52 PM

Sorry but I really didn't mean to argue against you. You missinterpretated a lot of what I say. I'm still prefering to stick with quotes though..

1) Not sure where you're getting that I use Hide to run away, I never have since that's not what it's for. The only time I use Smoke Bomb is between my first and second death per round.



The idea of using a level3 Hide for running away was from xxalucard, I don't know why you refer this to yourself. I used the quote to add my opinion to his question, not to argue against yours....

Also the colo room is relatively small, if you can't catch up to someone with Hide level 1 then you're not properly using map since it's a big circle, not a line...



I don't understand this. The map is huge, and as long as someone runs straight, and you are not as fast as this person, you will lose it out of sight. But if you can handle this with Hide level1 well enough, then just keep it like that. It's just an opinion.

2) Means your Rangers aren't geared as well as you. You can compare the Bows to Daggers, they have a more attack by standard, and as you said mobility. It's not about a good tank, it depends on the boss. Can't stay still while fighting Bapho obviously.



I'm pretty aware that the rangers I play with are geared as well as I am, because they're part of our Raid Group, and we know who got what and who still needs what.
You can't judge someones DPS just by the stats of the weapon. There are a lot of factors important, skills, speed, other gear, buffs, self buffs etc.

And I don't get the example, I have no problems with hitting Bapho the whole time. But for him and many others count, you attack him from the back, if the tank changes where the boss looks at all the time for no clear reason, it might become a problem. And an example on where it depends on weather you can attack or not: Fighting an opponent that creates a field dot (most bosses have these) - and the tank ignores it and stays inside the field.

And bringing up Unstoppable doping is irrelevant since, I specifically mentioned on this guide that Mark of Geno is for party members, not you. Not sure we're on the same page here.



Sorry but, I did by no means say anything in that direction. I used the 20%crit Buff from Doping as an example for something completely different (To recall: why 1%crit in this game is not just 1%higher chance to deal a critical, and thus why MoG isn't just adding 2 more criticals in 100 hits). It has absolutely nothing to do with weather MoG is useful for a Rogue or not. When I said that I disagree with you, I was defending the buff being more useful than "the least you can offer". I don't know how and where you caught up that I said this skill is useless to Rogues because of Unstable Doping.

3) As you said, playstyle. Edit: Also, no idea who said Moonlight Dance is useless in PvP, it's one of the best skills. Perfect for people trying to run away, people that think otherwise are not properly using Rogues.



Actually a lot of people out there (not you) argue that Moonlight Drive is useless in PvP, because of the long attack animation / making you unable to move.

4) I don't use Vit Runes because I don't find the 30 HP per Rune useful. I don't usually party with Pugs so I wouldn't know, but anyone that judges a character base on HP on itself is an idiot. No idea how you're barely reaching 5k as well, I'm 4/6 on Raid equipment and I have 5.6k HP without Blessing, and 0 Vit Runes.



I'm totally on your side here. But if someone doesn't have any friends to Raid with, they are depending on those "idiots". Look in Find Party, almost everyone sets a minimum HP limit there for Raids. If I had no friends to play with, I'd probably having a hard time finding a party. Actually I never ever found anyone so far that asked me about my attack or DPS, which is quite frustrating.

About the max HP: That is weird. Are you using VIP card or something? I have 4,860 HP with Normal Raid Helmet and Gloves, Hard Raid Shoes, rest RHD.

Edited by Velouce, 21 May 2013 - 12:54 PM.

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#88 SOS101

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:21 PM

I left mark at 1 because I see no need to master it since sins will most likely have it mastered even other rogues, http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0 what ive decided so far.
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#89 SOS101

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:21 PM

I left mark at 1 because I see no need to master it since sins will most likely have it mastered even other rogues, http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0 what ive decided so far.
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#90 KIyde

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 02:52 PM

Sorry but I really didn't mean to argue against you. You missinterpretated a lot of what I say. I'm still prefering to stick with quotes though..

About the max HP: That is weird. Are you using VIP card or something? I have 4,860 HP with Normal Raid Helmet and Gloves, Hard Raid Shoes, rest RHD.


I didn't mean to sound rude, but when I re-read what i posted I came out a bit hostile, so I'm sorry about that.

Yeah, I use VIP.
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#91 xxalucard

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Posted 21 May 2013 - 09:53 PM

Mark of death can miss. I can make a video of it happening... it tends to occur more often than not for me.


I hadn't thought of MoD + those 30 second boost potions (is it really 100 more damage per hit?). How much do the boost potions add without MoD?


About hide: Even if I hide early enough -- which I do, I use it the same way you mentioned-- Dark Illusion has a certain distance requirement before it will teleport you behind a player. The timing of Hide isn't what I'm talking about, it's when there's classes sprinting with wind elixers close to the arena wall... I'll simply never be able to get to them with hide level 1.


I get that we usually use dirty plan to get off a second crescent moon, but what happens when it's on CD? Or you quickly get to the next boss? Or the next person in colo? Dirty plan isn't going to be available for every fight, and then you have to wait twice as long for that stun.

Besides playstyle, can I ask why you think MoD is more worth the points than Crescent Moon? It's only effective once (twice with dirty plan) and will only net you one kill in colo and has a semi-effective use in one boss fight in a raid (and you have to worry about AoE's and other boss mechanics that could sometimes cause you to waste the mark).

And in 1on1 duels-- after you fight once and someone wins, let's say they want to fight again. What are you gonna say? "Hold up I gotta wait 2 - 3 min for dirty plan." Because without dirty plan as a crutch, it's extremely unlikely you'll be able to use crescent moon more than once in the fight, and your options will become extremely limited when dirty plan (and mark of death, if you used it) is on CD.




May I ask why you chose to add AGI runes? I could be (probably am) incorrect, but I thought 22 agi = 1% crit chance. If that's the case, doesn't that mean it takes 5 agi runes (nearly all your rune slots) to add that 1% crit? Is the damage added from str runes that weak?

Or maybe if someone could clarify some numbers to look for that "breakpoint" I keep hearing about, it would be very helpful and appreciated.


I think VIP is kinda cheesy IMO, but that's another matter. What about those without VIP? How can they hit 6k hp? I have 5 scratch thief cards, 1 purple baph-normal einherjar piece (the legs), the entire RHD set, and even a vit rune-- and my HP is around 4.6-4.7k atm (unbuffed). Even with a full purple set, I don't think it's possible to hit 6k.

I'm going go out on a limb & assume that the developers made the game possible to beat without the requirement to pay cash for unfair advantages... but I'd have to know from other players if things are possible with less HP.
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#92 KIyde

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:41 AM

Mark of death can miss. I can make a video of it happening... it tends to occur more often than not for me.
I hadn't thought of MoD + those 30 second boost potions (is it really 100 more damage per hit?). How much do the boost potions add without MoD?


I'd like to see a video, it has never missed on me. it's not 100 more it's more like... the Master Boost Str/Dex Potions give about 125 str/agi so it doesn't really translate to attack/crit but...helps a lot. Even as inaccurate as the Threat bar is, you'll see yours jump.

About hide: Even if I hide early enough -- which I do, I use it the same way you mentioned-- Dark Illusion has a certain distance requirement before it will teleport you behind a player. The timing of Hide isn't what I'm talking about, it's when there's classes sprinting with wind elixers close to the arena wall... I'll simply never be able to get to them with hide level 1.


I tend to avoid those... there's more than one target in the room. I have never run into this situation so I can't say.

I get that we usually use dirty plan to get off a second crescent moon, but what happens when it's on CD? Or you quickly get to the next boss? Or the next person in colo? Dirty plan isn't going to be available for every fight, and then you have to wait twice as long for that stun.


I don't use Dirty Plan for just crescent, I never use it unless MoD, Gangsters Paradise, Smoke Bomb, and Crescent Moon are ALL on cool down. Again, I don't use Crescent Moon as much because the way I see it, if you don't kill your target within 2 CM (as long as they don't miss) your DPS might be a bit low. I never been on a 1 on 1 duel that has lasted more than 30 seconds.

If you want we can duel to test it out one of these days, although I'm more of a PvE player.

Besides playstyle, can I ask why you think MoD is more worth the points than Crescent Moon? It's only effective once (twice with dirty plan) and will only net you one kill in colo and has a semi-effective use in one boss fight in a raid (and you have to worry about AoE's and other boss mechanics that could sometimes cause you to waste the mark).


I don't like Crescent Moon as much as many other Rogues, for one it doesn't work on bosses, and I'm more of a PvE guy like I mentioned above.

And in 1on1 duels-- after you fight once and someone wins, let's say they want to fight again. What are you gonna say? "Hold up I gotta wait 2 - 3 min for dirty plan." Because without dirty plan as a crutch, it's extremely unlikely you'll be able to use crescent moon more than once in the fight, and your options will become extremely limited when dirty plan (and mark of death, if you used it) is on CD.


This applies to all classes really, with Monks waiting for Asura, Warriors Tension Relax, or even Rangers with Ankle Snare. This seems rather a silly excuse to max out a skill thought, imo.

May I ask why you chose to add AGI runes? I could be (probably am) incorrect, but I thought 22 agi = 1% crit chance. If that's the case, doesn't that mean it takes 5 agi runes (nearly all your rune slots) to add that 1% crit? Is the damage added from str runes that weak?

Or maybe if someone could clarify some numbers to look for that "breakpoint" I keep hearing about, it would be very helpful and appreciated.


Honestly, I don't think about it so indepth, I just calculate based on stats. "Could I use 5 more agi? ...Sure!" Then I proceed on placing it. Seems logical to me, which is why I pointed in my guide that it's ALL preference.

I think VIP is kinda cheesy IMO, but that's another matter. What about those without VIP? How can they hit 6k hp? I have 5 scratch thief cards, 1 purple baph-normal einherjar piece (the legs), the entire RHD set, and even a vit rune-- and my HP is around 4.6-4.7k atm (unbuffed). Even with a full purple set, I don't think it's possible to hit 6k.

I'm going go out on a limb & assume that the developers made the game possible to beat without the requirement to pay cash for unfair advantages... but I'd have to know from other players if things are possible with less HP.


Well, cheesy or not, it's useful. Not sure what the obsession with 6k HP is though.
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#93 synesthetic

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 03:05 PM

I could be (probably am) incorrect, but I thought 22 agi = 1% crit chance. If that's the case, doesn't that mean it takes 5 agi runes (nearly all your rune slots) to add that 1% crit? Is the damage added from str runes that weak?

Or maybe if someone could clarify some numbers to look for that "breakpoint" I keep hearing about, it would be very helpful and appreciated.

It's roughly 10-11 AGI for 1% Crit Rate.
I'll just quote the two relevant portions from the stat guide.

For quick reference if you're level 50,

Rate % = stat * 0.0228

Crit Rate % = AGI * 0.0916


There's a breakeven point varying with how much crit rate and attack you have.
If you have less attack than that point, then STR/INT will do more.
If you have more attack than that point, then AGI will do more.
The breakeven point if you have 0% crit rate is about 2184 attack.
Then for roughly every 5% crit rate, the breakeven point for attack increases by about 109.
By 30% crit rate, the breakeven point is 2839 attack.


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#94 xxalucard

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Posted 25 May 2013 - 10:43 PM

I reset my skills one last time recently, based on all the feedback and criticism, and successfully won @ the colosseum (finally!). I still disagree with klyde about MoD, but otherwise I've adjusted my build in agreement with a lot of things he said.

So this is the build I won with:

http://www.ro2base.c...310238.22310238


I took some advice from a guild member that's also won as rogue several times, and maxed dirty plan & smoke bomb. The difference is amazing, being able to use them multiple times in the same round-- even if you don't get an initial kill from dark illusion, you aren't just screwed. It also helped me win in the final round, as I could smoke bomb again with poison on me, then dirty plan and smoke bomb yet again. This saved me because it broke targetting during the last 10 seconds when everyone tried to focus me down (probably much to their aggravation), and I disappeared among the porings and monsters as the clock ticked down to zero.

I also noticed dirty plan & smoke bomb are the major skills I use anyway for damage (the moonlight drive + smoke bomb combo & utility of resetting all skills), and found it much better all around in usefulness & versatility.


I did combo training 2/3 because i realized 10% is a 1/10 chance while 15% is roughly a 1/7 chance..not much of an increase. The 10% is a huge increase to the 5% though, because that's double the chances (1/20 to 1/10), so it made more sense to me. Also, I usually depend on Combo Mastery procs to make the significant difference in damage/utility, rather than the extra combo point from combo training.

I'm sure maxing smoke bomb & dirty plan will seem like a noob move, but hey, I won with the build.

I know player skill is involved and there's 1000+ variables, but I truly believe the extra hide & dirty plan are what made the difference.

I also believe this build is good for PvE because IMO mark of death's damage increase isn't as useful in raids or long boss fights compared to simply being able to use more smoke bomb + moonlight drive combos.

That's just my opinion though, and I could be wrong (as I've been several times in the thread).
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#95 xValak

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 02:50 PM

This guide is amazing! It actually helped me decide on what class I should aim for under the theif branch x3

Even though I was struggling on the skills I should get a bit, I finally came out with this.
I am aiming for PVE.

Sadly I can't think of a built to revolve on. From what I read I will be getting Vit off of the equips, so I am thinking of not putting points into that at all. I want to have high DPS and decent crit. (since the rest of my crit will come from my skills correct?)

Suggestions would be great!
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#96 makosn

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Posted 26 May 2013 - 05:09 PM

Everyone mentions rolling cutter for a bit of aoe damage/poison application, but what about meteor storm? Does that not also apply poison to targets, simply on a smaller scale? Seems crazy to pump points in to cutter when you've already got meteor strike to unlock smoke.
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#97 KIyde

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 05:08 AM

That's just my opinion though, and I could be wrong (as I've been several times in the thread).


Honestly as a Rogue, there's no right or wrong build, if it works for you then that's great, and if people don't agree with you, then screw them.

This guide is amazing! It actually helped me decide on what class I should aim for under the theif branch x3

Even though I was struggling on the skills I should get a bit, I finally came out with this.
I am aiming for PVE.

Sadly I can't think of a built to revolve on. From what I read I will be getting Vit off of the equips, so I am thinking of not putting points into that at all. I want to have high DPS and decent crit. (since the rest of my crit will come from my skills correct?)

Suggestions would be great!


Thank you for the compliments, I put my left-over points in Vitality, so I have about... 6 or 7 Vit. I can't recall since I'm not home. Also yes, your main crit buff will come from Unstoppable Dopping which is 20% Crit for 30 seconds, so don't be afraid to pump up strength.

Also, the build looks good although, can you point out why you have so many skill points on Dirty Plan? Just curious c:

Everyone mentions rolling cutter for a bit of aoe damage/poison application, but what about meteor storm? Does that not also apply poison to targets, simply on a smaller scale? Seems crazy to pump points in to cutter when you've already got meteor strike to unlock smoke.


I don't like it because it only hits 3 enemies with a 3 second cooldown. Not sure if anyone pumps up points on Cutter though, I just leave it at 1.
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#98 xxalucard

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 12:37 PM

I won at the Colosseum 3 out of 4 tries since posting (I slept through a few of them). I think maxing smoke bomb & dirty plan is the best thing I ever did.

I also won PvE arena [normal] for the 2nd time last night. There were several situations where using smoke bomb / dirty-planned-smoke-bomb helped reset hate on adds when they happened to swarm to me. The 2 minute CD is actually short enough to be efficient in between swarms & most major boss events, and I think it helps the team coordination by giving the off tank an almost "instant pull" when you disappear.


Also to Klyde-- with total respect--I think there can be wrong ways to build a rogue, play style or not. I respect you as a player and your guide helped show me the basics of playing rogue well.

I also noticed you won at the Colosseum several times before I did... that's something that showed me you were an above average player. There's people out there who might write guides or theories or do some math, but it's people that actually WIN and PLAY WELL that I listen to.

Just wanted to give you some props for representing rogue at Colo, and backing up your advice with wins. You should record some runs! I'll try to as well, in case I pull off another win.
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#99 xValak

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Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:23 PM

Thank you for the compliments, I put my left-over points in Vitality, so I have about... 6 or 7 Vit. I can't recall since I'm not home. Also yes, your main crit buff will come from Unstoppable Dopping which is 20% Crit for 30 seconds, so don't be afraid to pump up strength.

Also, the build looks good although, can you point out why you have so many skill points on Dirty Plan? Just curious c:



I had placed it there for the cd but if it's not that needed around how many points should I place in it? I know I can throw an extra point in to Combo Training to max it out. If any left over points I should place it where?
Is VIT 6 / STR 51 / AGI 26 good? or is the crit rate too low? (since i want the crit to be decent)

Edited by xValak, 28 May 2013 - 07:25 PM.

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#100 KIyde

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Posted 29 May 2013 - 05:59 AM

Also to Klyde-- with total respect--I think there can be wrong ways to build a rogue, play style or not. I respect you as a player and your guide helped show me the basics of playing rogue well.

I also noticed you won at the Colosseum several times before I did... that's something that showed me you were an above average player. There's people out there who might write guides or theories or do some math, but it's people that actually WIN and PLAY WELL that I listen to.

Just wanted to give you some props for representing rogue at Colo, and backing up your advice with wins. You should record some runs! I'll try to as well, in case I pull off another win.


No disrespect taken. I know what you mean, but honestly I think that all Rogue skills are all useful, unless you tell me you maxed Cross Impact and Meteor Assault, then there's a problem haha.

No prob, trust me yesterday in Colo I was craving that Dirty Plan lvl 5 that you mentioned. Mines only at 1 and to me that's like my emergency button, I can see how at level 5 it would be awesome to have but, I'm pretty happy with my build so far, maybe once WoE comes out I'll switch to an all-out PvP build.

Congrats on your wins!

I had placed it there for the cd but if it's not that needed around how many points should I place in it? I know I can throw an extra point in to Combo Training to max it out. If any left over points I should place it where?
Is VIT 6 / STR 51 / AGI 26 good? or is the crit rate too low? (since i want the crit to be decent)


After using the point on Combo Training I think you're good, your stats look fine too. No worries about Crit from base stats either, most of our Crit rate comes from our equipment, anyways.
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