43 replies to this topic

[flysteps]

Literally nothing. It is not my style to say something like this. Yes, it is trivial but I just hope the team hear the rant. I honestly don't care what other people say about these actually. Just feel like writing something before the launch.

1. Wizard ultimate's mechanism is weak (Fire Explosion). It's pretty stupid I must say. Not because of the damage, but how it works. The damage is cool. But what happens next after is not good. Let say, two example of same gear. Someone decided to go with ultimate path. He casted it and BAM! One nuke of damage, and he lose his castspeed greatly after that. 10 second later, he'll get full charged again. Another one, decided not to go with ultimate path. Rather, he maintain his castspeed and keep spamming the bolts. The amount of damage between these two, the later guy actually deals more damage during that same attacks period.

2. Pyromancer. It is the charge skill for Wizard. Other class also have different charge skills. But there is a little slight different between Wizard's charge skills and other class charge skill. The other class the charge will still be there as long as they use the correct chain, but the wizard, either you use the skill or not, it will eventually gone by time. So, still using Fire Explosion is not necessarily bad idea. Given that the time almost out, knowing that the charge will gone why not cast Fire Explosion at that. The castspeed still will be reset anyway. So the question is, why charge up in the first place? Giving Wizard small laughable hope? :v

The pryomancer again, is the charge amount. Man, seriously? You need 5-6 cast to get it charged up. That took almost 10 seconds, including the animations of the skills casted and aftercast delay. And we haven't even talk about how much Wizard can deal damage in total. Oh hey look! I got a staff on my back and I don't even need to hold it to animate my casts!

3. No, Wizard has AoE. They are the main AoE dealer. Seriously. If you see Warrior, you will be ashame of yourself. Meteor storm has 4 weakness, 1 is the casting, 2 is the stunned position, 3 animations, and 4 locked once the spell is casted. One second casting, another one second of stunned, and another second of aftercast delayed. To put it short, during Meteor Storm, once it is casted, that person is locked there. He can't move nor cancel it. O how I wish there is a force staff like Dota2 to force out. Next AoE is Inferno. It is underrated, but some say this skill is very good. It has low initial damage, but that still able to crit, and it can deal Fireflower DoT. It can be cast while moving, and less weakness compare to Meteor Storm. It is the only skill that can combine well with Meteor Storm.

There is another AoE that's make Wizard a little bit more useful, Frost Nova, but still it can go horrible. Before I go to that horrible part, let's look at RO2 system itself that make that thing happens.

4. RO2 system - distance problem. RO2 has buggy distance problem that you will find yourself hard time to figure out the right distance. For example, you try to freeze someone from afar, or slowing it, or whatever. And the only thing you realize your target is just right in front of your face. Delayed? The damage has already been applied right when you hit. Continue with Wizard's Frost Nova, you basically AoE the mob right around you and you will still getting hit if you didn't step back/teleport out after that.

5. RO2 system - skill descriptions. The description is a mess. What's written is not necessarily what's actually happened. Especially the cast time and delay part. For example if the skill said 2 sec cast, it just means 3 sec including animation and aftercast. If it is say instant, it means 1 sec animation. Oh, not all. Some instant actually really instant. Also not all 2 sec is 3 sec, some casting like example of 2 sec is actually 1sec and another 1 sec of animations. This, is also actually what's contribute to Why Wizard Is So Weak.

6. Animation. Need to say more? Wizard even have the longest animation projectiles duh. I wish they just use the GoTW, I would say that one is faster than LoTs and don't even send projectiles out. Firebolt and Fireball needs to be faster projectiles.

7. Why Wizard is so weak. So the developer think that Wizard has pretty huge amount of nuke in a single hit. Sure might be true. It is indeed work as intended but then they overlook some part. The No.5. Just basing on their theory, Wizard is able to dish nuke in given theory cast time but in actual combat, Wizard actually took longer to nuke. The descriptions are messed up and need to rely on self experience to feel the difference. And they forget that Wizard actually cannot move! I actually don't mind having cast-bar/casting every single spell if I can move. FFS RO2 mechanic is target-locked, cannot move + cast = punch bag. But then, how much damage actually a Wizard can deal? It's not that great as well! Now this is one hell of big joke here. Even in long term, other DPS can deal more damage than Wizard. Why? Referring to no.6

So we know that Wizard has disgusting cast time and animations. Then we know that we get nice nuke ultimate. But then, the other class doesn't have drawback when getting charges (either Swordman Aura, Warrior Rage, Theif Combo Points and etc), only Wizard have the drawback. They should have create better mechanism than that. I also have no idea how can we address this but the way it is now, it is really stupid and cheap mechanism.

Great. >.>

The only skill that worth noting is Blast Arm, that has long CD but contribute great damage. I mean, really great damage. Dragonology is also worth to mention as well - for now. Once the Noel class is out, no more Dragonoly, and that also put an end to Wizard.

[Jargous]

You know what Wizards are good for? Dragonology. However, they are also one of the designated classes to take care of weak adds. Dragonology is what helps mages and healers do their job better and as a bonus, if you have a monk, it will make your monk that much stronger at MT (main tanker)

[flysteps]

Yes, as I did mention before, it is just for now. It won't be long till it become useless when Noel appears. With class that can offer buffs that Wizard can't, no reason for people to go Wizard over Noel.
Enjoy it until then.

[Jargous]

Not one to overlook but token drops from bosses. The ratio of yellow to red tokens is usually 1.5:1 but red to blue can be 1:1. But it also well known that yellow to blue is a 2:1 ratio on average. Ideally your lineup would consist of 4 yellows, 3 reds, 3 blues, but your usual lineup would consist of 5 yellows 2 blues, the remainder a combination of red and blue. Now consider that when the noel class shows up, crescentia will take the yellow slot, soul linker the blue slot. So naturally, the fight for tokens would grow. As rare as a wizard would be, you can almost say that they will get VIP treatment even after noel class shows up.

Rogue was considered to be a terrible class in RO1, but then became a beast in transcendent. You never know until you become a die hard fan of the class.

[frostsense]

I wouldn't necessarily say they are weak, but they are very, very lacking yes. Ping sadly plays a big role on the DPS charts here and literally kills most Wizard spells because of the very high delay that follows after the casting time is done. Playing on the SEA server, that's something I had to adjust to myself, personally.

[ODKN]

You know, just because it says instant doesn't mean your character exhales and stuff explodes. It doesn't work that way. XD Of course it has to have animation time.

Oh, and a Warrior/Knight with Battle Tactics can also take further advantage of Dragonology.

Edited by ODKN, 23 April 2013 - 11:40 AM.

[flysteps]

You know, just because it says instant doesn't mean your character exhales and stuff explodes. It doesn't work that way. XD Of course it has to have animation time.

Oh, and a Warrior/Knight with Battle Tactics can also take further advantage of Dragonology.

I didn't mean it that way.. You see, the descriptions for skill looks like the developer is doing half-ass job. It is not just applied for Wizard but I honestly believe applied for other class as well. I'm not sure if the developer fault, or translator fault. For example there is a skill that says "Leap to the target and bla bla bla" (I actually forgot), but turned out we need to get melee, not leaping but actually backflip in melee range dealing damage to the target. So where is the leap part? I honestly have no single clue.. It is misleading and that is just one example.

Not one to overlook but token drops from bosses. The ratio of yellow to red tokens is usually 1.5:1 but red to blue can be 1:1. But it also well known that yellow to blue is a 2:1 ratio on average. Ideally your lineup would consist of 4 yellows, 3 reds, 3 blues, but your usual lineup would consist of 5 yellows 2 blues, the remainder a combination of red and blue. Now consider that when the noel class shows up, crescentia will take the yellow slot, soul linker the blue slot. So naturally, the fight for tokens would grow. As rare as a wizard would be, you can almost say that they will get VIP treatment even after noel class shows up.

Rogue was considered to be a terrible class in RO1, but then became a beast in transcendent. You never know until you become a die hard fan of the class.

yea, sometimes it made me thinking maybe the reason i just keep playing wizard is just another matter of fight for slot
but nonetheless, even with two sorcerers in raid people still couldn't care less lol

I wouldn't necessarily say they are weak, but they are very, very lacking yes. Ping sadly plays a big role on the DPS charts here and literally kills most Wizard spells because of the very high delay that follows after the casting time is done. Playing on the SEA server, that's something I had to adjust to myself, personally.

that, i have to agree with you
even though having hard time of projectiles, ping and all, the fact that i have been able to kill the mob within one or two shots in early levels is still great.. turn out i have to go for crit stats build to maintain that to level50.. and again i still feel that it would be great if we can move around like GW2, and other recent mmorpg while casting, even if we still have the cast time.. but sadly that's not the case

Edited by flysteps, 23 April 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[gvermehren]

Are wizards really that bad? Nobody disagrees? o_O

[frostsense]

No disagreement here. They are pretty bad in terms of utility and skill variety. We did get the worse end of the stick, to be honest. Look at the Wizard tree, and then look at the other class trees and you'll find out what I mean.

Edited by frostsense, 23 April 2013 - 07:20 PM.

[flysteps]

After a long thought, I think I have figure out a small fix that developer can do that might actually putting Wizard in not-so-bad place.

Swapping place tree of Blast Arm with Fire Arm, and make Fire Arm able to cast along with other arms.
For some people, it would not make any different. Their build probably won't even change..
After I gave it a deep thought, it could be a huggeeeee different thing into another different whole Wizardry again and might as well called balanced.

I could give a few pointers if anyone ask

[frostsense]

That's always a possible option. Though the more reasonable option would be to fix some skills (Pyromaniac a good one here) so they aren't complete garbage.

[Jargous]

My preference would be making fire explosion to have multiple effects. By default, stun for 5 seconds (instead of 3). If the enemy is burning, converts the burn to an even stronger DoT. All mobs within a 2m radius of the target will burn and if the mob dies to the skill an explosion aoe will occur effectively damaging all mobs in a 5m radius to take 66% of the total damage dealt to the target. Although, I won't be surprised if Wizards are introduced to a new element when their next job arrives.

[flysteps]

If what I think is correct, then the whole idea of that will only put the more necessary of pyromaniac lol.. It would be even more advisable to take it..

@Jargous
Good thinking. That's reminds me of one gem in PoE that work in similar way.. Not telling to copy but things could be done in different creativity

Also, they should have at least make it more visible for burn on target.. I mean, the target status would be nicer if the target really appears as burning if under effect of burn along with the buff status indicator.. Well, eye candy is always goes along with show off mage wouldn't? :| The option of lower graphic should turn this off

[Jargous]

If there's one problem I have with Pyromaniac at the moment, it is basically a suffragium, it SHOULD be better than that and Suffragium for priests is an instant cast for a buff that lasts 30min and can be refreshed. Pyromaniac is just too punishing, at least give it a 15% bonus at max stacks. I thought suggesting the skill scale exponentially, but then a 25% haste would be downright ridiculous. Probably if Pyromaniac was given between 15-20% when the skill is maxed, it would be an interesting skill to take up on. But I think the biggest difficulty Gravity is having with the Wizard is the fact that with the current skill tree, you can basically pick up everything and tune it to your specialty. Power (most/all fire skills maxed), survival (ice wall), or mobility (teleport). Of course you can have all these skills and have 5 points remaining, and I think that's where the problem starts. They're not sure how to make it such that you have to decide on 2 of the 3. Probably what the devs might do later on is to take off the max mad stack requirement on Fire Explosion, but the damage will be scaled according to stacks.

[flysteps]

Now since you already pointing it out, what I thought of swapping Blast Arm and Fire Arm that I mentioned previous. It's not really swap without change the mechanic of those skills, I just thought that it is just possible. It is related to Pyromaniac in a way.

Since the Arms (wind, earth and fire) only have one toggle at one time. I wanted to use Wind for 20% bonus castspeed, that is a great addition for Pyro. But in return, we will lose 10% bonus fire damage along with burn chance from Fire Arm. That's quite a feat to lose. Let say if we go for purely castspeed Wizard (which is rarely happen), we can get 50% bonus speed including bonus from gears (80% with Guardian). That's almost spamming instant cast firebolt - without Fire Arm. But the drawback is we lose the burn and the bonus damage, also still lose in nuke compare to Sorcerer and probably other DPS as well. 1 sec cast time for firebolt including animation and delay is not too long, not too fast. It just perfectly there. We still need to stack Pyromancer to maximize the effect, we literally lose nothing. And I wouldn't even mind having Ultimate Fire Explosion, given that if we still have enough pts to spend :/

---------------------------------------------
But why swapping the place of skills? Why not retain its position but just change how it works instead? Because I feel that, it would be quite OP. If we can use Wind Arm, why not giving Sorcerer to use ours? After all, they have no use of fire buff from Fire Arm so Blast Arm is more useful. Fire, is Wizard specialization. There's no real need for it to be in mage tree in my opinion. Let Blast Arm to be there instead. I'm just too kind to my kin. I heard that Blast Arm was actually a 30min buff long ago before SEA server released, until they decided to nerf it to 30sec? Not sure if it is true

Edited by flysteps, 24 April 2013 - 12:25 AM.

[Quzar]

I played a Wiz on SEAro2, and I feel you on this issue. Only reason i continued playing Wiz was for the easy raid slot/tokens. Plus no one really expected much out of Wiz, besides the INT buff. Only time people really payed much attention to us was when we survived those risky situations by using Ice Wall, or when we zapped around using Teleport.

Edited by Quzar, 24 April 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[rollchan]

How's wizard's DPS compared to other DPS classes?

Edited by rollchan, 25 April 2013 - 04:54 AM.

[Jargous]

They're about in the middle in terms of DD power. A wizard's real strength really lies in their self-survival and teamwork. Weak adds are a wizard's job because they can easily put up DoTs and AoEs quick enough to dispose of them while maintaining their own survival.

[Myztik]

So, Wizard = Full PVE, bad PVP , and Sorcerer less damage but can Good about PVE/PVP ?

[Jargous]

Wizards are fully capable of winning Colos with Teleport, Ice Wall and Blast Arms with Water Seal. I would underestimate Wizards that bad.

[rzevidz007]

So, Wizard = Full PVE, bad PVP , and Sorcerer less damage but can Good about PVE/PVP ?

No, not entirely right.
Wizards win in terms of raw damage and they got DoT to support their offense while Sorcs are great burst via frozen target and/or Wind Arms proc.

[flysteps]

Some people would probably overlooked that Wizard can possibly use all 3 seals compare to Sorc, but the levels, is just depends on usage.
I went back to SEA and butchering my Wizard since I am got a couple of free reset scrolls (from Asiasoft and friends that interested in me).. Turn out that there are a few ways to make Wizard freely move while attacking like Ranger without having much cast time (close to 100% haste) without sacrificing damage, same crit rate as Ranger, but higher MA prior to the Staff vs Bow. That is, if you are willing to butcher your class to actually feel it in practical (no theory involved)

It's probably gonna cost a lot of time and money close to Rouge, so I decided not to play NA and stay SEA and I have obligation to hide my build.

[frostsense]

So, Wizard = Full PVE, bad PVP , and Sorcerer less damage but can Good about PVE/PVP ?

Sorcerors are all about very high spike damage. Assuming they can land all their spells (not a very ideal situation), they can be the highest DPS. Obviously, more often than not, they are going to miss their spells, so they would be roughly on the same page as a Ranger and Wizard would be.

And Wizard isn't that terrible in group PvP; though 1v1 fights they'll mostly end up losing to classes that have stun or knockdown capabilities with high DPS (because a second to charge a Fire Bolt is a lot of time for the opponent to do something).

[protokra@web.de]

There is also a BUG right now that Decreases your DPS in a Huge way!
http://forums.warppo...ll-mastery-bug/

[dancingpanda]

I really want to make a wizard, but this post is very discouraging. I was thinking that a wizard was a damaged dealing badass <.< That Sorcs would be weaker due to the fact that they are part healer.....I was thinking that this chara would be the one that would destroy all and live to laugh about it.
Is this all not true then?
If I bother with this chara does that mean I will be forever alone because no one wants a wizard?
I dont want to make a chara just for an INT buff <.<
BAH!!!!
Just answer me this....
Will I ever be a badass?