63 replies to this topic

[Leonis]

Please use this section to discuss any balance ideas you may have that you feel could help the class benefit from.

Keep in mind that we are not looking to create overpowered situations and not all suggestions will be considered valid if they are outside the design scope of the class.

[koqoK]

Hello.

So after some testing in Pegasus ,there are things that i like and dislike about the new skills second job-artisans.

For example in the new skills "Gun Training"(Offensive tab)-Passive gives Attack Power +25% +25 and Top Gunner(Artisan tab)
gives Attack Power +25% ,but at the normal Rose at moment Tough Gunner-passive gives 70% attack power and Top Gunner gives 65% Attack Power plus the passive Advanced Hardned Resarch +10%Attack Power,so this is a huge difference in attack power 145-50=95% Attack power difference,
same with Attack Speed ,in pegasus 30%attack speed +20%attack speed=50%,in the currently Rose 55% + 15% plus Advanced Darkned Resarch +10%=80% 80-50=30%Attack speed difference,this is greatly reduced.
Also with Accuracy ,currently rose 90%,pegasus 30%.

No Accuracy buff that is very needed for artisans.

You should not have add Dread Knight for artisans and no summon for bourgs.

You have added "Merchandising(Sales Premium)" and "Stockpile(extra drop chance)" for Artisans this is so wrong bourgs will be useless then

I don't like that you made same skills can be used by launcher and gun it would be much more awesome if there would be gun artis and launcher artis but with different skills not the same,that suck.
And the skill "Magic Shot" under "Acid shot" it's very worthless 130% +75 skill power and doesn't have any effect compare to "Acid Shot" which is supposed to be weaker than "magic shot" it has 277%+155 skill power and it got poison 75 damage per second.

Also you should not have taken the passives from crafting skills like +10% crit +10% accu etc

But i like Decloack and new poison skill also the stun it was needed for artis ,and the passives con ,sense

Thanks

[koqoK]

By the way i love artisans so much but when i saw new skills i was kinda depressed,so forgive me because i think artisans will be kinda useless because clerics will have sleep raiders also ,artisans won't be needed anymore in game arena or pvps
i just can't live with that fact,i hope things will get better

[Leonis]

koqoK, every class had the same change to their attack power passives. Looking at how powerful everyone was getting, there was a great amount of scale back being done, because the skills themselves would be replacing that lost attack power. Prior to when a skill would give a flat rate of attack power, they now give a percentage and a flat amount of attack power.

As for attack speed, it was also scaled back, like a lot of things were and rebuilt from the ground up to ensure skill balance from a starting point.

If we were to make a gun and launcher skill tree for Artisan, what would the difference be to a Bourgeois' design? We simply added Launcher's to the skill tree because of how now the offensive tree is essentially an aspect that will be accessed we didn't want to limit an Artisan to -have- to use guns, when a player may have opted to go with Launchers to begin with as a crafter. A difficult build because of how stats would be relied on, but that's not something we wanted to dictate if a player wished to do so.

As for the idea of any class being "useless" each were designed differently to be able to bring something to group play. Even Artisans should have a better time contributing to party play and future plans are in place to continue it, however they are not ready at this point in development.

[koqoK]

Have anyone else tested Terror Knight and Dread Knight,terror knight seems to have more ap and more accu ,dread knight misses often but got a little bit better attack speed,it's kinda waste of points if you use dread knight, 5 points for mercenary employment +for the knight,this is good for low levels they can summon up to 3 hunters but in late game its useless to use 3 hunters i would better go with just terror knight.
And btw it is there any possible way to change the icons of skills, there are a lot of skills with same icon like this:

maybe it is not needed for passives or craft skills but it would be much more awesome if dread knight and terror would have different icons ,same with poison shot,magic shot and acid shot also in offensive tab there are same icons skills

Thanks

Edited:killing mobs works pretty fine ,i can kill easy green mobs,brown ones and with boosters purple ones ,haven't tried yet without boosters but seems very nice

Edited by koqoK, 28 June 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[migsdali]

i can kill penguin king no dead coz help of summon at lvl 129. but way the terror knight have 50 summon amount and the dread knight is 70 summon amount?

[Leonis]

Terror Knight and Dread Knight stats were mistakenly reversed. The Dread Knight should be the offensive one, while the Terror Knight is the "tough" and defensive one. It should get fixed in today's patch.

The icons are going to be worked on as a final stage of polish. I know it's a bit confusing right now, but we're more concerned with the game play feel right now. We try to include polish updates where possible, but for now please bare with the temporary icon use.

[DoubleRose]

Terror Knight and Dread Knight stats were mistakenly reversed. The Dread Knight should be the offensive one, while the Terror Knight is the "tough" and defensive one.

So they are meant to be equal in power?

[Leonis]

No, the power was supposed to be swapped.

Terror Knights are essentially your tanks, while Dread nights are offensive and more a killer type, while you try to support it.

[DarkSideOfMoon]

I was testing the two attack skill lines for Artisan.

My Artisan is currently lvl 175
Using hardened weapons refined 7, corresponding to lvl.
Lvl 160 Courage gear (Valor) refined 7
Sharp accessory set (AP10), un-gemmed
All possible passives taken
Usually fully Cleric buffed

We started in prison at lvl 160

• Poison Shot, Acid Shot and Magic Shot

Magic Shot appears to be very strong. Infiltrators are a one shot experience. Damage to ghosts was between 9k and 22k damage. Poison shot and Acid shot can be used during Magic shot cooldown. But I realized a delay of 2-3 seconds, when clicking a Target after attacks were casted. Means, that another monster cannot be targeted even for normal hits. Is this intended? The poison effect is negligent. Even a Honey Rackies poison effect is stronger I guess. The poison effect for PvM should be way stronger. The poison effect is indicated on the Poison Shot skill in purple, but not on the Acid Shot.

• Tripple Shot, Hypno Shot and Stun Shot (forgot the correct name)

Hypno with 5s sleep effect and other skill with 3s stun effect. After casting these skills the character stops attacking and one has to target again. This is annoying and since the effect is so short and both attacks damage is 0% +0 they become totally useless skills. Only reason to use might be to stun/sleep and quickly run away from a boss etc. Please make it that your character keeps on attacking after casting. There is no monster in game that stuns or sleeps and after that would stop hitting you! 

[MangupaT]

I was testing the two attack skill lines for Artisan.

My Artisan is currently lvl 175
Using hardened weapons refined 7, corresponding to lvl.
Lvl 160 Courage gear (Valor) refined 7
Sharp accessory set (AP10), un-gemmed
All possible passives taken
Usually fully Cleric buffed

We started in prison at lvl 160

• Poison Shot, Acid Shot and Magic Shot

Magic Shot appears to be very strong. Infiltrators are a one shot experience. Damage to ghosts was between 9k and 22k damage. Poison shot and Acid shot can be used during Magic shot cooldown. But I realized a delay of 2-3 seconds, when clicking a Target after attacks were casted. Means, that another monster cannot be targeted even for normal hits. Is this intended? The poison effect is negligent. Even a Honey Rackies poison effect is stronger I guess. The poison effect for PvM should be way stronger. The poison effect is indicated on the Poison Shot skill in purple, but not on the Acid Shot.

• Tripple Shot, Hypno Shot and Stun Shot (forgot the correct name)

Hypno with 5s sleep effect and other skill with 3s stun effect. After casting these skills the character stops attacking and one has to target again. This is annoying and since the effect is so short and both attacks damage is 0% +0 they become totally useless skills. Only reason to use might be to stun/sleep and quickly run away from a boss etc. Please make it that your character keeps on attacking after casting. There is no monster in game that stuns or sleeps and after that would stop hitting you! 

I was wondering how you got Courage and Hardened.Also refine system is not broke?
on Pegasus I mean!

Edited by MangupaT, 02 July 2013 - 04:21 AM.

[DarkSideOfMoon]

Valor gear is easy to obtain, when you know which quests to do. The Junon quests which give many points are only available 2 times per day and 10 times per session. Then at Xita can take 10 quests at a time and just hunt what is needed while you level your char up. I got full lvl 100 and full lvl 160 valor gear in relatively short time (with 2 people collecting).To Harden/Reinforce is also easy. Missing materials were obtained by disassembling the corresponding NPC gear. No problem with infinite Zuly. Refine system was introduced during last patch and works normal. Crafting Success rates were sometimes problematic, especially at lower level. But currently I have about 900 CON and success is quite ok.

[Leonis]

DarkSideOfMoon

Acid shot is not intended to have a damage over time effect, it is merely a poison attributed harder hitting skill. As in the acid does immediate damage based on being a poison type element.

Hypno Shot does a sleep effect, not a stun. The difference between stun and sleep is, if you are hit while under stun, you are still stunned. But if you are hit while under sleep, you are no longer asleep, you are 'woken up.' That is why the Hypno shot stops you from further attacks. It is not meant to be a damage skill, it is a combat control or utility skill.

Daze Attack is a close range stun, also intended to be a control factor, however daze attack will be given attack power, because it is a physical strike, while the Hypno Shot is just an effect.

But yes, these skills are directly intended to be for running away when you get in to trouble. The class is a ranged class, so when the fight comes to them in melee range, it's time to get out and those are the skills you would want to use to enable that.

[DarkSideOfMoon]

Thanks Leo for the explanation

 

In case of Hypno shot, this doesn't sound logical.

What I was trying to say is that when I myself cast the shot on a target. The target sleeps. Of course, this is the effect. But in addition I myself stop attacking. My character just stands still.

The action of putting someone else to sleep schould not force me to target again.

[Genesis]

 

Thanks Leo for the explanation

 

In case of Hypno shot, this doesn't sound logical.

What I was trying to say is that when I myself cast the shot on a target. The target sleeps. Of course, this is the effect. But in addition I myself stop attacking. My character just stands still.

The action of putting someone else to sleep schould not force me to target again.

 

The sleep status effect would disapppear immediately before it had a chance to work if the skill was set up to continue shooting at the target.  You can always use the Normal Attack skill after to start attacking your target again if you don't care about the effect being applied, but in that case why would you want to use Hypno Shot at all?

[DarkSideOfMoon]

Ok, I think my old brain slowly understands the mechanics

 

But why when I was brought to sleep by a monster they can bash me further without me waking up and when I bring monster to sleep and hit they wake up? Unfair, isn't it?

 

And the stand still effect is also with the stun, as far as I remember (need to check when I do the next reset)

[Genesis]

Stun and Sleep both prevent the target from attacking, but the big difference between the two effects is that Stun will persist while you continue to attack the target, where as the Sleep effect will be removed when you next attack the target.

 

Status effect mechanics work the same way for players and monsters (PvP, PvM and MvP).  For example, the Cannibal monsters in the second room of Sikuku Underground Prison will apply a Sleep status effect on you, but the next time you get hit by a monster the effect will be removed.  On the other hand, the Candle Ghosts will apply a Stun status effect on you, which lets them attack you while you are unable to fight back temporarily.

 

You can recognize which effect is which by the visual effect it displays - Stun will show little colored orbs spinning around your head, and Sleep will show sleepy zzZZ's above your head.

Edited by Genesis, 04 July 2013 - 05:54 AM.

[koqoK]

Could you reduce the cooldown of magic shot and acid shot from 15 seconds to 10 seconds or at least just magic shot

and by the way when i wear mercenary backpack i'am overweight it gives weight instead of giving weight capacity

[Genesis]

Weight capacity on items has been fixed for next patch.

[SlowBob]

I was hanging arround in Train Ground a bit and pvped some battle artis. What i experienced so far is that artis deal huge dmg champs and knights can't kill them at all. Due to their sleep they deal with multiple enemys good too.

Well to me it seems pretty unfair right now, artis seem to deal the highest dmg in pvp + they are able to craft. Looking at those points, what would be the reason to play other classes, like raiders? Raiders are mele, deal less dmg and can't craft, this looks odd to me, since they are basicly the only class which special features mainly involve single target attacks/cloak. Shouldn't be the point of artis be crafting? I mean basicly you should be forced to be a bourgh if you want to deal high dmg, however this isn't the case at all.

[kwayan19]

you wouldn't have enough sp to learn crafting skills if you went battle

[SlowBob]

It will probably depend on your build, you don't have to skill all attack skills to be a decent battle arti. However my main question is if artis should be awsome in pvp + in crafting. Since in my opinion one of those attributes should be enoth, else it would be unfair to any other class in rose. Their offensive skills should make the OK for fighting (they should be able to solo like any other class) however they should deal less dmg than other classes, and not own them.

Edited by SlowBob, 05 July 2013 - 04:12 AM.

[Bendersmom]

I agree with Bob.  If you watch in TG the arties are really doing well.  If you compare this to cleric a full crafting artie should be weaker in battle like a FS cleric.  They are supporting.  A battle artie should be kind of strong like a battle cleric.  And if you do a mix like a lot of clerics are doing they should be ok in battle and ok at crafting.  But right now battle arties are really strong and those that have some crafting and some battle are pretty strong as well.  And their sleep skill needs a longer cooldown in my opinion.  When they attack I might be able to get one heal off before they sleep me again.  They rarely miss yet a lot of the classes miss a lot atm (I know high con but so do other classes).  And they have summons that hurt a lot as well. 

[DoubleRose]

Why play bourg when you can play arti?..

they need clear differences

Edited by DoubleRose, 07 July 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[koqoK]

Why do you "hate" artis they are good as they are,moderators did great job on artis and why do you want to make artis weaker,

if they make weaker we will play all scouts/raiders ,now it is much better, tg will be not just with scouts and raiders but there will be artis ,battle clerics ,knight etc.