15 replies to this topic

[ieatpasta]

How can we compare these two skills? For starters:

 

Shield Cannon

Animation Time: ~3 seconds

Total Damage: 66 / 71 / 77/ 82 / 88 %

Cooldown: 30 seconds

Consumes 3 Aura

3 Hits

 

Bash

Animation Time: ~1 second

Total Damage: 17 / 19 / 21 / 23 / 25 %

Cooldown: Instant

Gains 1 Aura

1 Hit

 

Why is Bash better than Shield Cannon?

 

In consideration of animation time, three Bashes is slightly faster than one Shield Cannon. The difference is you are gaining 3 aura vs losing 3 aura. A level 5 Bash is roughly equivalent to a level 3 Shield Cannon, dishing out 75% damage with three Bashes. Bash has an instant cooldown over the 30 second cooldown of Shield Cannon. In Colosseum, if your goal is to last hit players, you have the ability to time your attacks.

 

Why is Shield Cannon better than Bash?

 

Initiating Shield Cannon on a moving target will allow you to complete the entire attack from the point of origin. You can increase your distance, or maintain a closed position. Level 3 or higher does more damage than three level 5 bashes at +2 / 7 / 13 %

 

 

Analysis: Shield Cannon is a split second slower than 3 bashes, meaning you can get about 3 1/3 bashes in as the time it takes to do 1 Shield Cannon. Therefore, Shield Cannon will only outperform bash at level 4 and 5.

 

With these facts in place. We can now discuss alternative methods and skill builds.

 

How are the alternative methods of consuming Aura better than Shield Cannon?

 

Consider Concentration to give you 20% more damage with each bash (and any other attack) for 45 seconds. That puts you above a level 5 Shield Cannon. However, you will be receiving 10% more damage.

Or maybe with that extra 3 aura you've gained from Bash, you could instead spend it on an Aura Strike dealing 45% damage in an instant.

I have not experienced Aura Heal first hand, however I do believe it provides you with 18% heal of your attack. Which puts a level 50 Knight in the range of 200-400 non-crit heal. Plus it has a 20 meter range.

The choice is up to you!

 

This is my ideal Knight build and I do plan to remove Shield Cannon completely.

Simply put, 5 points in Shield Cannon is not worth the minor increase in damage output every 30 seconds.

 

What are your thoughts on the two different skills? And what would you spend your 5 extra points on?

 

Edit: I want to add that this may be irrelevant to Female Knights. I have learned in bug reports section that numerous female characters experience slower bashes than their male counterparts.

Edited by ieatpasta, 03 July 2013 - 11:41 AM.

[Kalandros]

As SonicTMP mentioned in the DPS Knight thread, use shield cannon and then run away for fights that require lots of movement.

And in PVP, if you know your shield cannon is gonna kill someone, unleash it and start moving to next target while the animation ends.

 

The best part of it is that you are not frozen in place during the animation like other classes might have (Monk to name just one).

 

As for female animation, I thought it was just Aura Strike, oh well x: thats annoying, mine is female~

 

And huh... nice "build" there with cards we can't get yet AND you have neither Concentration nor Shield Fortress.

Please....

Edited by Kalandros, 03 July 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[SonicTMP]

We did this a month or so ago in the knight and warrior AP thread. Xaeus did the math and another guy had the extact animation frame time on shield cannon.

[ieatpasta]

As SonicTMP mentioned in the DPS Knight thread, use shield cannon and then run away for fights that require lots of movement.

And in PVP, if you know your shield cannon is gonna kill someone, unleash it and start moving to next target while the animation ends.

 

The best part of it is that you are not frozen in place during the animation like other classes might have (Monk to name just one).

 

As for female animation, I thought it was just Aura Strike, oh well x: thats annoying, mine is female~

 

And huh... nice "build" there with cards we can't get yet AND you have neither Concentration nor Shield Fortress.

Please....

Meant ideal build, not current build. Have re-edited for clarity.

Shield Cannon is good for movement, as I had mentioned above. However if your goal is to last hit, you lose the ability to time your hit perfectly.

And please "discuss" why you think Concentration and Shield Fortress are good. I see no reason for Shield Fortress as of yet, maybe later when WoE is released, but in raids, its not required (that's why raids have minimum HP requirements), and as a main tank you are losing the ability to gain threat for the duration of the skill.

[Yoruno]

There's the option of getting just 1 point in shield cannon so you can bash/aurastrike for more damage and when necessary, initiate that shield cannon and bail while leaving 3 bash worth of damage behind. My current personal build is like that.

 

I consider Shield Fortress to knight as how heal is to priest; what makes knight a knight. What people look for when they look for a knight to team up, why they'd pick a knight tank over a monk/bm tank, why they'd want to recruit you into their guild, etc.

Raid's minimum hp applies to everyone and not just knights, not to mention it just happens to be a good indicator of how well geared the player is. Sure raids can do just fine without SF knight, but having one is definitely favorable.

With aura armor and good enough gear you shouldn't get out-threated by your dps in 10 seconds..

[SonicTMP]

You need to clarify what spec you're making this argument over

 

DPS

TANK

PVP

 

Usefulness of each skill changes depending on what you want to do.

 

[Bronx]

I don't have Shield Cannon. It's up to you to decide whether or not a minor bump in DPS is worth 5 skill points. I don't miss it at all, and my DPS is still pretty much the same as when I had it.

 

Edit: I heard from several knights that played SeaRO that shield cannon wasn't at all necessary, and that Bash x2 > Aura Strike was faster. I decided to give it a try, and I liked what I seen.

Edited by Bronx, 03 July 2013 - 03:01 PM.

[Kalandros]

So no need for 3 aura Aura Strike?

http://www.ro2base.c...310621.22310627

 

this might be my build without Shield Cannon (For DPS Knight)

5/5 headcrush and 5/5 aura shield.

 

Edited by Kalandros, 03 July 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Bronx]

You get more big hits in, if you skip the 3rd bash. With max Aura Mastery, your 2 aura Aura strike (say that 3 times fast) will be a 3 aura Aura strike, more times than one would think.

[Kalandros]

True.

But then there's the "female animation" issue to think of.

Is it really a big impact?

 

o:

 

And should I get 5/5 Head Crush? Tank or other Knight/Warr will always add theirs to their rotation, its so annoying to compete for a DoT

[EdsonDC]

They have already discussed this extensively on the knight and warrior thread. It says there shield cannon takes 1.7ish seconds to complete, not 3 seconds. I'd say so because when I knock down someone with shield bash I can pull off a shield cannon and have the animation finish while the guy is still lying down. It's like three slightly stronger bashes in rapid succession split second apart. Personally I only use it for PvP for the burst and the ability to move while in animation, since I always try to go behind my enemy. Many times I considered dropping it but I just couldn't let it go. Other knights do fine without it so I suppose it's not really a big deal if you're pressed for points.

[Bronx]

5/5 Headcrush IMO. That DoT is too good for long fights, and really adds up over time.

 

If I notice my HC is stronger, I will kindly ask the other swordie in the party to stop doing HC, as it overrides my stronger version.

Edited by Bronx, 03 July 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Haboob]

Shield Cannon is for DPS knights only and that's it. It has a cooldown which means it has a vigor requirement and you should be more concerned about getting shield fortress instead of a slight dps increase. Your build doesnt even have Concentration yet you are worried about if SC gains more DPS every 30 seconds instead of a few bashes /facepalm

[Wtfast]

How can we compare these two skills? For starters:

Shield Cannon
Animation Time: ~3 seconds
Total Damage: 66 / 71 / 77/ 82 / 88 %
Cooldown: 30 seconds
Consumes 3 Aura
3 Hits

Bash
Animation Time: ~1 second
Total Damage: 17 / 19 / 21 / 23 / 25 %
Cooldown: Instant
Gains 1 Aura
1 Hit

Why is Bash better than Shield Cannon?

In consideration of animation time, three Bashes is slightly faster than one Shield Cannon. The difference is you are gaining 3 aura vs losing 3 aura. A level 5 Bash is roughly equivalent to a level 3 Shield Cannon, dishing out 75% damage with three Bashes. Bash has an instant cooldown over the 30 second cooldown of Shield Cannon. In Colosseum, if your goal is to last hit players, you have the ability to time your attacks.

Why is Shield Cannon better than Bash?

Initiating Shield Cannon on a moving target will allow you to complete the entire attack from the point of origin. You can increase your distance, or maintain a closed position. Level 3 or higher does more damage than three level 5 bashes at +2 / 7 / 13 %


Analysis: Shield Cannon is a split second slower than 3 bashes, meaning you can get about 3 1/3 bashes in as the time it takes to do 1 Shield Cannon. Therefore, Shield Cannon will only outperform bash at level 4 and 5.

With these facts in place. We can now discuss alternative methods and skill builds.

How are the alternative methods of consuming Aura better than Shield Cannon?

Consider Concentration to give you 20% more damage with each bash (and any other attack) for 45 seconds. That puts you above a level 5 Shield Cannon. However, you will be receiving 10% more damage.
Or maybe with that extra 3 aura you've gained from Bash, you could instead spend it on an Aura Strike dealing 45% damage in an instant.
I have not experienced Aura Heal first hand, however I do believe it provides you with 18% heal of your attack. Which puts a level 50 Knight in the range of 200-400 non-crit heal. Plus it has a 20 meter range.
The choice is up to you!

This is my ideal Knight build and I do plan to remove Shield Cannon completely.
Simply put, 5 points in Shield Cannon is not worth the minor increase in damage output every 30 seconds.

What are your thoughts on the two different skills? And what would you spend your 5 extra points on?

Edit: I want to add that this may be irrelevant to Female Knights. I have learned in bug reports section that numerous female characters experience slower bashes than their male counterparts.

I never really bother to made any comment on people Knight's build just because I simply want to avoid conflict but I just cannot understand how you can put four points in shield boom mastery and then say putting five points in shield cannon is not worth it?

[ODKN]

The thing is, if you get stunned , or otherwise, while performing Sshield Cannon you will end up doing more damage anyhow.

[Hermand]

Well good thing this is discussed because I am going this build http://www.ro2base.c...1.1.1/0.0.0.0.0 with my Tank.