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[Balance] Cross Impact vs Double Attack


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#1 Ryvian

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:40 AM

Cross Impact (Attack) requires: Mark of Genocide

Level Description                                                                             SP Casting Time Cool­down

1 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy and inflict 17% damage. 1          1                8

2 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy and inflict 19% damage. 2          1                8

3 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy and inflict 21% damage. 3          1                8

4 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy and inflict 24% damage. 4          1                8

5 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy and inflict 26% damage. 5          1                8

 

VS

 

Double Attack (Attack)

Level Description                                                                             SP Casting Time Cool­down

1 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy to inflict 17% damage.    1          1                1

2 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy to inflict 19% damage.    1          1                1

3 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy to inflict 21% damage.    1          1                1

4 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy to inflict 23% damage.    1          1                1

5 Obtain 1 combo point.\n\nAttack the enemy to inflict 25% damage.    1          1                1

 

I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, and within it's respective sub forum as well. But I'd like to plead to our Community managers and GMs to PLEASE PLEASE listen, and pass the message along to those who can make a difference.

 

Look at the tables above, there is clearly something wrong here: Cross Impact has about the same damage as Double Attack, exceeding DA by 1% at the last 2 levels of the skill. They are both melee range skills with a 1 second cast time, HOWEVER, Cross Impact is obviously inferior in every other aspect.

 

Cross Impact has a scaling SP cost, up to 5 at max level, with a whopping 8 second cooldown. It is utterly pointless to even bother investing points into this skill other than to get to get to Assassin and Rogue skills. In truth, Cross Impact is nothing but a filler skill.

 

Wait, what? Seriously? I can't believe you can get away with just shoving in a random poor excuse of a skill into a class's core and call it a day. -_- if I know what programmers/balance/testing/quality assurance are paid to do at Gravity, but Warp Portal, you can rise above this. Do better than just taking for granted what was handed to you and shoving it in the game, take a look and really see what the intentions behind different aspects of the game are when they are implement, and strive to bring a better gaming experience, not copy and paste the game.

 

Cross Impact vs Double Attack is without a doubt a last minute job that no one too seriously.

 

To everyone else that may be reading this, if you have any idea on how to improve Cross Impact, just for sh!ts and giggles, I'd also love to also hear your opinions on what we can do to differentiate and the two and give Cross Impact a unique flavor. So humor me, since it's very unlikely any change will ever be brought to this skill anyway.


Edited by Ryvian, 21 August 2013 - 08:43 AM.

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#2 xxalucard

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:01 AM

Currently that skill is indeed useless and there is no clear reasoning behind it.  As it stands it's a worse version of our basic double attack, but with a longer CD and SP cost.

 

To make it useful they should give it some utility.  Some possible ones I've thought of:

 

1)  Slow target by 50% for 6 seconds  (I say 50% since it must be a melee hit)

2)  Incredibly high chance to proc Combo Mastery (50% or higher)

3)  Root target for 3 seconds (not sure about length of time)

4)  Silence target for 3 seconds [as well as gain a combo point]

5)  On successful hit, teleport behind target (this could be interesting)


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#3 Akayo

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 09:30 AM

Ok so hear me out...

Change the skill name to Cross-unstable-shadow-paradise-armor-explosion-impact. Skill description: Kill every hostile mob on all zones ever. Then, harnessing the power of Tom Cruise, teleport all the corpses in to the sky and let them rain down on all of the citizens of Midgard as they transform in to KFC Original Recipe Chicken, 72 virgins and Eremes DNA. #SinMasterRace

Or you know... What he said
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#4 DatMONKey

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:32 AM

So you have a useless skill in your class tree. Have you seen the Beastmaster class?


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#5 Meconopsis

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:34 AM

So you have a useless skill in your class tree. Have you seen the Beastmaster class?

 

Shrugs. Larger playerbase compared to the BM class.

 

Same goes for monks.


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#6 NuwaChan

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:43 AM

Plenty of less usefull skills in any class. For knights max Aura Heal, heals 200hp with lvl 50 raid gear's patk


Edited by NuwaChan, 21 August 2013 - 10:44 AM.

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#7 ZeroTigress

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:43 AM

Just make Cross Impact like the RO version and we'll be good.

http://irowiki.org/wiki/Cross_Impact
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#8 Leinzan

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:46 AM

well, Bears are scary... personal experience in colo, but gotta look at them closer to say anything first.

Monks are cool, I've used them and fought against them, they need some working.

 

However, not knowing about others doesn't mean we can't nag about what we have!! (selfish all the way!)

 

«Cross Impact» is not only useless, but also a must waste 1 point to get the main skills for both Rogue and Sin.

If there is something I could dream about doing with this skill it would be:

 

A) Remove it.

B )Make it be a «Soul Breaker» of 10m!!

C) Make it give 2 Combo Points and twice the damange!!

D) Insta teleport to target location with a range of 10m (xxalucard original)

E) Stun target.


Edited by Leinzan, 21 August 2013 - 10:46 AM.

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#9 Ryvian

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:52 AM

Plenty of less usefull skills in any class. For knights max Aura Heal, heals 200hp with lvl 50 raid gear's patk

 

On a small sidenote, the Knight Heal is not a skill that you need to invest a minimum point into in order to unlock further skils, but yes, the numbers on that skill is still uselessly low, same as Ranger's Sharp Shooting's increase in damage by 0.5% ~ 1.5%. Granted Sharp Shooting itself does OK damage, and Ranger's aren't in need of a bigger buff, but the number itself is still ridiculously silly, especially when only Rangers can benefit from the 1.5%.


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#10 Ryvian

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 10:57 AM

well, Bears are scary... personal experience in colo, but gotta look at them closer to say anything first.

Monks are cool, I've used them and fought against them, they need some working.

 

However, not knowing about others doesn't mean we can't nag about what we have!! (selfish all the way!)

 

«Cross Impact» is not only useless, but also a must waste 1 point to get the main skills for both Rogue and Sin.

If there is something I could dream about doing with this skill it would be:

 

A) Remove it.

B )Make it be a «Soul Breaker» of 10m!!

C) Make it give 2 Combo Points and twice the damange!!

D) Insta teleport to target location with a range of 10m (xxalucard original)

E) Stun target.

 

*sarcasm detector malfunction*
A) Totally in favor of removing it completely

B) ????????????

C) Dual Stab but better so no

D) What's the reasoning behind giving the thief class a teleport abillity?

E) Both rogues and sins have stuns, not sure why you'd give the thief class more stuns.


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#11 Leinzan

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:01 AM

*sarcasm detector malfunction*
A) Totally in favor of removing it completely

B) ????????????

C) Dual Stab but better so no

D) What's the reasoning behind giving the thief class a teleport abillity?

E) Both rogues and sins have stuns, not sure why you'd give the thief class more stuns.

 

If there is something I could dream about doing with this skill it would be:

Im just dreaming, if I were to seriusly suggest something you would see a wall of letters.


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#12 Ryvian

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 01:04 PM

Oh my bad, I thought it was a serious suggestion haha, all good.


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#13 ZT0100

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 04:37 PM

I have 2 suggestions:

 

1) Remove it and give us a speed boosting skill like the ranger's Wind Walk.

 

or

 

2) Add an instant death effect.

 

Your choice, developers.


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#14 VModSushi

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 05:19 PM

Would it be alright if I moved this to the Suggestions section?


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#15 Ryvian

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:37 PM

I debated posting this in suggestions earlier, but there seems to be more traffic in this section anyway, and serious suggestions or not, the more it gets talked about the better.

 

That is, unless, having the thread in the suggestions subforum makes it more likely people of importance would notice, or that people in charge of balance and/or have the power to make changes to the game are more likely to act if the thread is in the right section, by all means, please do.


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#16 VModSushi

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 08:02 PM

There is more traffic here. I just have this problem with needing to organizing things T_T;


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#17 VriskaTsubaki

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:03 AM

Hmmm... well you guys say that "sins and rogues have stuns" but rogue stun is only useful with one combo point (and if you do it with 1 CP it'll be useless 1sec stun? wtf?) 

Anyways, another stun (that doesn't need to invest an absurd amount of CP to work nicely) or a non-invisible gapcloser would be good.

 

 


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#18 Lazy34

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:18 AM

It would be nice if we could have Cross Impact trade places with Poisoning Weapon on the skill tree. This way we don't have to waste a skill point on a useless skill. Or, seeing as we are theives, turn Cross Impact into a steal-type skill maybe?


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#19 Gerrr

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:45 AM

Thief classes have a hard time managing points as it is. I'd rather the skill just get taken out so we get 1 more to put into something useful.


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#20 Ryvian

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:39 AM

Hmmm... well you guys say that "sins and rogues have stuns" but rogue stun is only useful with one combo point (and if you do it with 1 CP it'll be useless 1sec stun? wtf?) 

Anyways, another stun (that doesn't need to invest an absurd amount of CP to work nicely) or a non-invisible gapcloser would be good.

 

I think Rogue skills would benefit from an additional gapcloser and stun, but that isn't something I feel should be available as a Thief, although personally I'm all for it, it would also mean that assassins would have even more mobility and/or CC than they already do.

 

If anything, Dark Illusion should be allowed to be used outside of Hiding, without the benefits of double damage and a the addition of a cooldown, which would benefit both classes, but more so for Rogues that do not have any kind of gap closer outside of hide, unlike assassins.


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#21 Leinzan

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:46 AM

Cooldown on «Dark Illusion» nuuoooooo >____>!!

please nuuuu

 

3 seconds is already too long a cooldown for me! NINJA POWER skill!!!

 

I would love a gap closer outside of hide tho


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#22 AdrenaIine

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:14 AM

Need a complete change or at least
 

It would be nice if we could have Cross Impact trade places with Poisoning Weapon on the skill tree. This way we don't have to waste a skill point on a useless skill. Or, seeing as we are theives, turn Cross Impact into a steal-type skill maybe?

 

This^


Edited by AdrenaIine, 22 August 2013 - 10:17 AM.

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#23 KIyde

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:59 AM

DktMde5.png

 

Can we just make it do this and call it a day?

 

thx.


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#24 Lazy34

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 11:21 AM

DktMde5.png

 

Can we just make it do this and call it a day?

 

thx.

1500% ATK seems just a tad bit imbalanced considering our attack power normally goes higher than 2k (so about 30k damage I guess). Maybe increase the cooldown some and decrease the range to 2m.


 


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#25 ZT0100

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:29 PM

I think Rogue skills would benefit from an additional gapcloser and stun, but that isn't something I feel should be available as a Thief, although personally I'm all for it, it would also mean that assassins would have even more mobility and/or CC than they already do.

 

If anything, Dark Illusion should be allowed to be used outside of Hiding, without the benefits of double damage and a the addition of a cooldown, which would benefit both classes, but more so for Rogues that do not have any kind of gap closer outside of hide, unlike assassins.

 

THIS! I think Cross Impact should be removed from the thief tree and add a new skill for rogues.. Seriously, rogues need a gap-closing skill or something to trap targets. Either a speed booster, speed debuff, or a teleporting skill. Although an instant teleport sounds nice, it would take the uniqueness out of Dark Illusion and Shadow Assault,... and it wouldn't make sense. Dark Illusion seems to be a sneak attack.

 

Maybe add a speed debuff effect to the dagger throw... which sins would also be benefiting from.

Or... simply make Crescent Moon last for 10 seconds. I mean, 5 combo points are required for the max effect, so 2 seconds per point. This may sound OP, but sorcerers have that freeze for 6 seconds and deal double damage with it. :p_sad:

 

I was getting off-topic there. Anyway, I think they should remove CI and put an AoE skill like Rolling Cutter there. It has more use than CI will ever have. Assassins have enough attack skills already IMO and rogues have decent attack skills, so I think it should be a utility skill, if not an AoE. I still think it would be best to replace it with a 50% speed boost skill or something.


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