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Reevaluating the Stats System


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#1 ZeroTigress

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 04:02 PM

The reason we have WIS in RO2 and not RO1 is because the RO2 developers want RO2 to be more in line with the manhwa. I can understand that, but at the same time, you can't go implementing a stat that has little to no use in your game. Each stat has to have a purpose and even with the Advent of Valkyrie update, the WIS stat is still an iffy stat to invest in. Not only that, but RO2's stat system is a half-assed attempt at combining both manhwa and RO1 stats in a sad effort to create its own stat system.

In the manhwa, Lee Myung-jin introduced 6 stats (STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHR). Keep in mind, Lee created these stats for fun as he is in no way a certified game developer. But let's see if we can cooperate with the developers to make these stats have better purposes, since they seem very intent on sticking with the manhwa source for RO2.

STR = Strength

One of the only 2 constants that the manhwa, RO1, and RO2 all share. Obviously this stat is focused on physical attack and is meant to be more useful for melee classes (Swordsman and Thief). In RO1, each point of STR increases ATK power by 1. Long-range classes do not benefit that much from this stat since they naturally don't fight their enemies face to face. So in RO1, Archers only get 1 ATK power every 5 points of STR.

Thus far, there's not too much issue with how this stat works in RO2. Although I would prefer physical attack and magic attack to be separated like before.

DEX = Dexterity

In RO1 and RO2, this stat is known as Agility (AGI). I can see why developers feel this makes more sense as this stat affects how fast you attack and your ability to flee. However, I don't agree with RO2 developers making this a CRIT stat on top of that, making it the one stat that every job class will benefit from when this should be more for Thief classes.

CON = Concentration

In RO1, this stat is known as Dexterity (DEX), which affects accuracy and hit rate and decreases cast time. I never understood why it's called dexterity as being dexterous doesn't necessary mean you'll be more accurate. (Unless you're talking about typing skills.) As such, this stat is more beneficial for long-range classes (Archer, Magician, and Alter) In RO2, accuracy and hit rate is tied to AGI, which makes it even more unbalanced as all characters are going to invest in AGI for this. I'd much rather have hit rate and accuracy be separated into its own stat (CON) instead of AGI.

INT = Intelligence

The second of the 2 constants that the manhwa, RO1, and RO2 all share. In RO1, INT affects magic attack, magic defense, Max SP, and SP regen as well as increase the effectiveness of SP potions. This stat is obviously for the benefit of magic classes (Magician, Acolyte, and Alter). With the implementation of elements, RO2's INT would definitely benefit from copying RO1's INT attributes.

WIS = Wisdom

Here we go, the dreaded WIS stat. In RO1, this stat is known as Luck (LUK), which affects your CRIT rate and the chance of a perfect dodge. I never understood why RO1 developers preferred to represent this stat as luck since you can learn how to take advantage of weak points if you learn from your mistakes (and therefore gain wisdom). That said, RO2 developers should make this stat equivalent to RO1's LUK stat.

CHR = Charisma

In both RO1 and RO2, this stat is known as Vitality (VIT). This and STR are the only stats in RO2 I have no problems with since they mimic the RO1 equivalents.

So what do you guys think? Should the developers adopt the manhwa stat names or keep with RO1's stat names? What do you think the purpose of each stat (as they currently in RO2) should be?
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#2 Dijkstra99x

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:16 PM

Keep stat name in ro2, ro1 has STR AGI INT VIT DEX LUK. changing STAT name at this time is a headache. people already used to it. I play RO1 for a decade and I think there's no need  RO2 to be like more RO1. they have  different developers. all I and players need now is the FIX. but then again lets keep this idea for now and suggest it when they make this game bug free.


Edited by Dijkstra99x, 25 December 2013 - 06:17 PM.

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#3 ZeroTigress

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:33 PM

The comparisons are made to point out the fact that both the manhwa and RO1 support a 6-stat system so it makes little sense for RO2 to stick with a 5-stat system. So although changing the names of the stats at this point in time will make things more confusing, it doesn't change the fact that the stats as they are now are not that much better off either. So this is a feedback thread on what would work for RO2 in terms of game balance and how to make each stat better differentiate themselves from each other.
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#4 1214681284

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Posted 25 December 2013 - 06:34 PM

I played ro1 and imo stat distribution/card system was cumbersome and complex, I quit playing ro1 long time before.
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#5 FluffyMiyu

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 07:26 AM

The RO1 card system was the best they ever implemented. 

The rest are just fillers.


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#6 Jaffer

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 07:31 AM

I played ro1 and imo stat distribution/card system was cumbersome and complex, I quit playing ro1 long time before.

 

Stat distribution is complex?  There is no hope.

 

The good thing about RO1's stat system is that your stats have such a huge impact on your capabilities, especially pre-Renewal.  It's been a good while since I touched RO2, but when I dump all of my levels into STR and the difference in my damage can be counted on my hands, something is wrong.

 

I don't think anything could really save RO2's stat system.  When the stats a player invests in amount to less than the stat bonuses on a single item, stats no longer matter.  Even if you overhaul the stats, what difference is it going to make when the game has a tiered gear system?  The only choice you're making is to either have higher consistent damage or a higher chance to critical hit things for burst damage.  And for the sake of balance either way your sustained DPS will be within 3% of the other option.

 

I think the issue with RO2's stat system is that is HAS a stat system.  Your stats are just glorified equipment attributes (Attack, Parry, Defense, HP+), so they might as well dump stats altogether and just use the proper attributes.

 

The only way to salvage the stat system would be to completely drop the reliance of equipment-based stat bonuses and change those into attributes, then add a tiered stat growth system (RO1 pre-RE) OR make all stat points cost 1 to invest in (like Diablo 1/2).  With the current stat system, increasing the cost of stat points is stupid.  Diminishing returns like mad.  If investing in stats was more like RO1, and each tier of stats gave associated bonuses to your associated attributes (ex: 10 STR giving you (Str/10)^2 bonus ATK), then increasing investment costs would be more meaningful.

 

tl;dr The issue with stats is not what they do, but how they do it.  Stats in RO2 are just equipment attributes pretending to add depth to the game.  Either make all stat investments cost 1, or make stat investment tiers. And stop relying on absurd equipment bonuses on stats.  If 100 STR = 200 ATK and 50 Parry, put 200 more ATK and 50 more Parry on the weapon, and make the STR stat meaningful to invest in.


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#7 ZeroTigress

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 12:14 PM

The only way to salvage the stat system would be to completely drop the reliance of equipment-based stat bonuses and change those into attributes, then add a tiered stat growth system (RO1 pre-RE) OR make all stat points cost 1 to invest in (like Diablo 1/2).


I never liked how equipment in RO2 gives you stat bonuses in ALL stats. Just remove those altogether and replace them with rune holes so we can enhance them with the stats we actually want. Rune holes can be the RO2 equivalent of RO1 card slots and that's enough to differentiate RO2 from RO1 yet retain the spirit of RO1 in RO2.

Same with cards. Remove stat bonuses in cards and replace them with attribute bonuses and elemental resistance bonuses. Make it so +cards give you % modifiers.
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#8 inuko23

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Posted 26 December 2013 - 02:01 PM

tl;dr The issue with stats is not what they do, but how they do it.  Stats in RO2 are just equipment attributes pretending to add depth to the game.  Either make all stat investments cost 1, or make stat investment tiers. And stop relying on absurd equipment bonuses on stats.  If 100 STR = 200 ATK and 50 Parry, put 200 more ATK and 50 more Parry on the weapon, and make the STR stat meaningful to invest in.

 

They already made each stat cost only one point to add in game


Edited by inuko23, 26 December 2013 - 02:03 PM.

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#9 ZeroTigress

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Posted 28 December 2013 - 08:20 PM

So, in short:
  • Implement a 6-stat system. Doesn't matter if they name it after the manhwa or RO1, the 5-stat system as it is now is too broken and unbalanced for a MMO setting.
  • Remove stat bonuses from ALL equipment and replace them with rune holes. Like I said, rune holes can be the RO2 equivalent of RO1 card slots, allowing us to customize each gear to our personal needs and builds. That would also remove the guesswork from the developers' hands when deciding what stats to put in quest and dropped gear. Don't you guys want less work for yourselves???
  • Remove stats in cards and replace them with attribute bonuses and/or elemental resistance bonuses. Make it so synthesizing +cards give you % modifiers. Having WIS give you elemental resistance to all elements is retarded and doesn't leave any room for strategic gameplay.
Taking these steps would be a HUGE LEAP in the RIGHT direction.
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