27 replies to this topic

[alvinmx]

Ok as i was one of the several who hated the changes made to prision, so i tried to give a new opportunity to the map. I went whit a cleric lvl 191 and me using a 193 launcher bourg, and its close to impossible to lvl there.

 

I think this issue must be solved asap, as i noticed NO ONE and i mean no one was at prision from the time i was dying there (not leveling thats for sure). Oh and i was there for around 1 n a half hour. ZERO

 

If u kill one infi, 2 appear, then 3 appear, then u r dead.... haha and thats becasue as much as u kill the more will spawn....ok thats a good improvement, but sometimes a infi protector appears (not sure if thats the name, is the one whit axes) and sleep u, the sleep last forever and imagine 4 infis hitting u, plus 10-14 prisioners, plus the debuff....

 

Its a challenge if u go whit a complete party, or at least i can asume that as no one wanted to go there whit me to try it.....they said ruins was better, faster and easier...and it is....

 

Leo please save prision !!

[jerremy]

What's the duration on the sleep? I don't have any lowbies in that lvl range so I've yet to try prison since it was changed.

I hope it really isn't as long as you say it is, cause I really dislike stun/mute/sleep effects that last longer than 5 seconds (which is already devastating enough as it is).

[Valakas]

I personally dont think any Mobs other than Boss class doing a 5 second mute is a good idea, let alone longer. 

[Castanho]

The changes got killed prison. Just it, I did a try too, and as you said. Almost impossible to solo, hours till u take a level, and almost impossible to find someone more at prison,

[Banrukai]

I'll give it a go, and see how I do. I agree with the fact that the debuffs in the prisons are rediculous, especially the stuns; mainly on the Kera/Bone spider, they last long and are too frequent.

[DoubleRose]

the guardians in oblivion temple have a 15 second mute

[Bendersmom]

I commend Leo for making changes to prison to decrease the botters, but now it is never used.  I wish there was a way to adjust it to keep botting down but make the prison a good place again.  As people try it out maybe some suggestions would be helpful to post here.  There has to be a way to make it work.  The prison is a great map and has a lot of nostalgia associated with it.  But most characters don't get a decloaking skill until max level and now when people go in there they don't even realize that they have to decloak the mobs.  Especially new players since they have not had to use it up until that point.  Maybe there is a way to make it progressively harder as you go through the rooms.  Have most mobs be visible in the first room and then as people progress make it harder and harder.   

[Phish]

Despite its difficulty, If the monsters in the last room were increased to 230+, it would probably see use as an alternate leveling spot in the grueling 220-230 range because Rose is severely lacking one.

[Feuer]

I second Phishs proposal, and for those experiencing a leveling issue in the prison range, it's not as bad [its still not great] but you can take up the quests in Xita from all the faction venders, go do the rounds, and come back to net yourself several mil exp. Plus you get a bonus to Valor gain. It's not great, but it is a starting point. 

[Bendersmom]

To me most complain that there are no mobs there.  I think that if the first room just had some mobs and a few invisible infis then more would try to play the map.  It is all about selling it as a good place still.  The new players have no idea how it used to be and go in and see how it looks...like a wasteland with no people...and they move on figuring it is for something else.  But if it gradually got to all invisible infis then they could work their way to the back and figure out that they need decloak, etc.

 

But I love Phish's idea about making it a map for high levels but I don't know if you can do that.

 

[Banrukai]

Making the last room mobs for Lv.230+ sounds pretty cool, and you wouldn't have to worry about getting attacked by random people.

But I can already see, with the current mechanics, that people would go to those mobs as soon as possible, and kill them with a low level for massive EXP; completely skipping all other maps.

 

Then again... people already do that by going straight from Oblivion Temple --> Shikuku Ruins.

[DoubleRose]

At least in ruins there is a factor of danger because of PKers.  In terms of OT, why would anyone go anywhere else?  Eldon's early levels have a level restriction (not to mention that the level ranges of these monsters make no sense.  They are yellow for maybe three levels, and then green for two when some monsters are yellow for six levels) and Luna is nothing special. 

[Feuer]

About the leveling issues with skipping whole planets.

 

They have a mechanic that the further lower level you are from the enemy you're attack, the more damage you take, and less damage you do. You also dodge less, and have less chance to hit.

 

This mechanic could be applified, to where if the monster was red/purple the penalty could be something severe like 75%. 

 

However, I feel that this same level mechanic should be removed from all pvp combat. I think it's incredibly stupid / bad idea that a lvl 210 character suffers 35%~ or so less damage done to a lvl 230, and the hit issue just plain stinks. I've done some tests, and even with 2x the accuracy vs 1/2 the enemy dodge, I still miss more often then hit, and the damage is reduced by some crazy figure. I see no point to this at all, for pvp, because it only makes pk'ers have more power to level gank, and with almost all the last level gear being 200, why should the same geared chars at lvl 200+ [even being 30 levels apart] be so MASSIVELY unbalanced? Pointless to me. but hey just my thoughts.

 

So level penalties, good for PvM, Terrible for PvP. 

[alvinmx]

ok back to my point, i was at prision again whit a better gear (180+ courage armor (10)) and i could gain almost a lvl alone in there, but died many times. Too many infis spawn after u kill the two fo them that can hit u in ur lvl area (8 will spawn eventually). If GM/team fix that, it could be a nice lvl map, as experience and mob rate spawn is very nice.

 

[Feuer]

Infi's will always be an issue, until their maximum spawn count is reduced, they hit all classes hard, even knights. 

[Leonis]

The map isn't exactly intended to be a solo-map, though no impossible, it is certainly difficult.

 

I appreciate all the suggestions and it'll be considered. The idea that the map gets too hard, may indeed give cause to slow down how fast the spawns increase in number to help ease the rate of difficulty ramping. As for increasing the levels for the final room, I understand the concept behind it, but it would only extend the level range of the zone, which isn't something we intend. The "grind fest" of leveling on certain maps is something we're actually trying to remove by spreading it out. The basic idea is that you spend so much time at one area and move on, so the idea of being in an area doesn't get boring without something to also distract you on the side. As we continue to develop more features, this will likely become more apparent, though if we do it right, it will still be subtle enough not to take away from the experience and fun.

 

I encourage the discussion going on here, it really does help with the insight to how you all play and perceive the map. The concept that no one plays on the map is false, there is activity in the area, but I will also state, the views that there are less "people" there is indeed true. However the idea that you see less people there, is also because the majority of those "people" weren't really there either.

 

As for the detection skills, I've stated before, more monsters will be given the ability to cloak or hide, to increase the desire in various areas and level ranges, to give it a good enough reason to want to have throughout game play, not just the high level and end game areas. Give us time, it'll start making it's way to filter down.

[DoubleRose]

Do infiltrators do magic or physical damage

[Feuer]

Magic ranged damage to the best of my knowledge. But because of their high AP, magic based damage in unison with their range and the prison def down status, they hit like a freight train. 

[DoubleRose]

most characters have higher defense than magic defense, and their def down makes all the prisoners hit hard

[DoubleRose]

the warden guys put me to sleep and then walk away

20 second i cant do anything

[Leonis]

Do infiltrators do magic or physical damage

Physical, thought the bullet does look like it should do magical. Perhaps I should change the bullet effect so it doesn't give the perception it does magic.

[Leonis]

the warden guys put me to sleep and then walk away

20 second i cant do anything

 

I've cut down all monster sleeps. The longest one is now 10 seconds (from 20) so it should help with the recovery time. Also, that "rested" status I mentioned in another thread will end up getting applied to monster's who cast sleep too, so it should help.
 

[alvinmx]

LEONIS if u guys aint planning to reduce the infi spawn rate, could you at least consider this solutions;

 

1- take out prisioners def down 

2- take out infis debuff

 

 

It is hard enough to fight there to still need to surive sleep, debuff, def down skill trust me

 

 

 

 

[DrWrong]

They should just close down that stupid prison map and make marsh of ghosts higher yield XP . I have always had serious performance issues with prison, even with settings on low. Sorry to all who love those infils and debuffing prisoners. Make it into a boss fighting map for big parties. Or... move the prison to accessible in Orlo so we can have a decent mob place , of course upping the mob ranks. Leave it how it is. More frustrating is good and botters arent all over it.

[Nifa]

I self partied a bit in prison yesterday while waiting for some friends to join. 230 cleric, 154 mage/bourg/bourg (leecher). Went to a corner in the third room. It wasn't too difficult to self party there. Friends joined later (230 cleric, 230 katars, 230 cleric, 154 cleric/bourg (leecher)). We moved to the middle of the third room for a bit but all of the lowbies died every few minutes due to the 18s sleeps. Moved back to the middle of the second room where it's mostly infiltrators, prisoners, and a few of those newer cannibal things. A 230 knight joined us for a few minutes, and another 230 cleric (or high cleric) joined later on to help with heals. Leveling in prison yesterday was perhaps the most fun I've had on Rose in a while. It was really difficult since we couldn't figure out the radius of the 18s sleep, and the party kept dying. But we had an ongoing skype call where we were constantly yelling about rebuff, being asleep, checking to see who was asleep, asking for puris, and yelling at the raider for doing a poor job at luring and killing infis and buffing.

 

After a while in the 3rd room, the infis disappeared altogether. We just had prisoners and those ugly things that like to make pancakes. There also weren't all that many in 2nd room. Not any more than there were in old prison, anyways. They were pretty ignorable. 
 
Here's a snippet of our leveling. I forgot I had the video running on my cleric screen, so I didn't really check angles, as I was mostly on my mage screen aoeing.
 
Even without other parties in prison and with someone looting, my fps dropped pretty badly. Granted I had 5 clients open in that prison party, but I've never had an issue (with 5 or so clients open) in ruins/orlo/ot. Is there a cap for how many monsters will spawn in prison? Emo said there wasn't, but it looked and felt like there was a cap.

 

I noticed that group rarely showed when someone was asleep. Sometimes you could see the sleep status underneath someone else's buffs, but usually we couldn't tell unless we said we were asleep. My mage was also confused since sometimes there would be a sleep status for a few seconds (with the mage asleep), then the sleep status would refresh and the mage could go on attacking. The sleep aoe also seemed to sometimes completely miss one of the people in the party (of course, never the one with AOE Puri).