90 replies to this topic

[Tolrin]

Koko reminds me of another potential change to the main WoE mechanics regarding guild skills: I've thought for a long time that it was silly how much emergency call overshadows the other guild skills such as battle command. If something like this was possible, I would suggest separating the cool downs of the guild skills, instead of having them all share the same timer which prevents anything but emergency call from being cast.

[Kaden14]

While on that topic, you should also be able hotkey guild skills

[jax5]

I think assumptio should now be enabled within castle maps.

Also, flee penalty should perhaps be modified. Chance to hit is still hit - flee. If flee penalty is the same percentage, the absolute reduction is then increased, due to higher flee values in renewal with same pre-renewal levels/agi/gear.

Edited by jax5, 02 November 2010 - 08:15 AM.

[Prodigy]

While on that topic, you should also be able hotkey guild skills

Uhm, no. This would allow for portal casting guild skills. (Yes I'm aware that some people abuse it anyways with a modified client)

[Kokotewa]

Uhm, no. This would allow for portal casting guild skills. (Yes I'm aware that some people abuse it anyways with a modified client)

You do not need a modified client to portal cast guild skills, its simply clicking the "use" key while walking through the portal. Ground-Targeted skills (such as ME, safety wall, etc) do require a modified client. Player targeted skills can be portal cast, but its difficult (requires friend list, requires entering the portal at about the same time, etc) to where it isn't impossible but to the point where it is by no means practical.

[Kaden14]

Uhm, no. This would allow for portal casting guild skills. (Yes I'm aware that some people abuse it anyways with a modified client)

Yeah no. Portal casting is another bug entirely and shouldn't prevent us from being able to hotkey guild skills. I can portal bug recall 10/10 times now without a modified client anyway. If the guild skills end up on different timers they will all play a larger role in woe and leaders should be able to hotkey them.

[DrAzzy]

I agree that guild skills should be on separate timers. I'd love to see some of those other guild skills come out in woe.


It's unfortunate that portal-bug recall is being permitted now. In the old days, GMs struck fear into our hearts, promising destruction and devastation against guilds who dared use portal recall.

Is there any way that we could make it so that a skill couldn't be used for a second after entering a portal? Portal casting in general is cheap, and is only made more obnoxious by the greater power of third class skills. I used to like it, when all that really mattered in terms of portal casting was recall (which was prohibited under threat of guild breaking) and dazzler/frost joke, which were effective, but hardly overpowered - now, portal recall is being used liberally, and there are lots of skills that we really don't want being portal cast.

I think a 1 second "skill delay" effect would have negligible effect on players, but would probably serve to prevent portal-bugging skills.

Edited by DrAzzy, 02 November 2010 - 11:54 AM.

[Amor]

I think the level-based effects in WoE should also be removed - that is, the effect of level on status resistance/etc. Higher level characters are already much stronger due to their higher hp/sp/stats, greater selection of skills, and the damage bonuses that many skills have based on level. Level does not need to be artificially made more significant in WoE.

I strongly agree w/this. It's artificially widening the level gap. Even once every regular WoE player has 150'd, this effect will continue to discourage newer players or people building up another 3rd for WoE.

[Prodigy]

I disagree with that Azzy. I don't like a complete removal of level-based status resistances because it really does make current WoE more dynamic. Instead, I would suggest for level-based status resistances to be scaled down to something like a maximum of 10 levels gap. That is, being 10 levels higher than your enemy will have the same effect, status resistance wise, as being 50 levels higher than your enemy. I haven't done any extensive testing, so I don't know if 10 levels is a good number, but you get the idea.

[Amor]

I disagree with that Azzy. I don't like a complete removal of level-based status resistances because it really does make current WoE more dynamic. Instead, I would suggest for level-based status resistances to be scaled down to something like a maximum of 10 levels gap. That is, being 10 levels higher than your enemy will have the same effect, status resistance wise, as being 50 levels higher than your enemy. I haven't done any extensive testing, so I don't know if 10 levels is a good number, but you get the idea.

A dynamic WoE would mean back-and-forth fighting. Creating artificial limitations on already disadvantaged player doesn't do that at all, in fact it has the opposite effect. It does the opposite of making WoE dynamic. You didn't give a good explanation of why you think the system should stay, because dynamic is exactly the wrong definition.

If you're a gym teacher you're not gonna put a team of 3rd grade kids vs 6th grade kids, and then tell the 6th grade team that their points score double to make it more dynamic.

Edited by Amor, 03 November 2010 - 07:10 AM.

[Prodigy]

Okay, by dynamic, I mean we have more things to worry about other than getting our desired stats. In preRenewal, all I ever cared about was getting 100 vit. That's it, a needn't be worried about getting stunned or cursed or silenced, ever. By the same token, most WoE centered classes can easily reach that 100 vit goal by lvl 8x or earlier at which point, status effects are greatly downplayed in WoE. In fact, I knew of a couple of people who had their main WoE chars completely stop leveling at early 9x because they could already do their roles at near full efficiency. But now, even if we got 100 total (vit/luk/int - the major stat resistances today), that doesn't guarantee that we'd be immune to those statuses. So, we either get more of the stat, or get more levels. For people counting on their end-game builds, it will be the latter that they'd aim for in terms of reaching that status immunity. So, even if that get that 100 stat, they can't just stop there and expect WoE (in terms of being inflicted with a multitude of statuses) to go smoothly.

While I do agree that the chance/duration of a status effect that a lvl 150 inflicts on a lvl 110~120 is far too long, I don't agree with completely removing that advantage, which is why I suggest to lowering it instead of completely removing it.

[Akin]

I do agree with Prodigy in that it's good that status effects are spread across more stats in Renewal. But what they really should do is have the status immunity based off base stat value, not total stat value. That way, people can't get 80 in each stat, use food and be immune.

Also, 150s already have multiple advantages over lower level players, they don't need more. If you have to be 150 to stand a chance in siege, then you'll just discourage people. Even before trans, status effects were the one equalizer that could give hope to a smaller guild when faced with a lone breaker or a small team of breakers from a much stronger guild. It should remain so.

I see a lot of people who say a 150 should be able to solo a guild of 120s, but I disagree, unless the guild is completely disorganized. Making that person immune to every status they can inflict on him takes away one of their small advantages as a group.

[tunwaia]

Theres not much I can say about woe atm , except that it is totally one sided. I am not sure how or if it can be fixed due to the length of time that testing and seeing what is broken is taking. The larger guilds , skills and ranges aside are so laden with god items due to holding every castle between them that even when things do get fixed smaller guilds trying to build up will be a thing of the past. Woe has become very depressing for many of us, myself included. My warlock cannot cast a thing as fast as things like Rune Knights etc, possibly I can get out quag . Even attempting sg1 with a 6 sec cast time Im little more then a sitting duck! I sure hope it pays off when she is a higher level but I still say that the over powering is not due to the difference in the levels alone.

[D111]

Ok so how do we counter this?





All they had to do was spamm skills that lock us in one place. Then get 150's to whipe us. When we fought their normal leveled people we stood up against them fine, each time they would just stall us untill a couple 150's came and Smack...

I do not know how to fight that other than level...

I will keep trying...


Or...

How do I counter this?

I walked in and cloaked and he was able to Manhole lock me on the portal... This is just broken, I had no way to retaliate and he did this to all of us that walked in...

What counter is there for this???





Look close at that Portal and you will see it is not a normal one, it is me cloaked in a manhole directly on the warpportal....


GM's this needs fixed...




This is just a broken skill??? Or what?

[Doddler]

Ok so how do we counter this?

All they had to do was spamm skills that lock us in one place. Then get 150's to whipe us. When we fought their normal leveled people we stood up against them fine, each time they would just stall us untill a couple 150's came and Smack...

Chaos panic can be removed with magnetic earth, ganbantein, earth drive, etc. Traps can be triggered, removed with hunter and falcon, or destroyed with trample.

This is just a broken skill??? Or what?

Manhole has a cooldown and can only trap one player. Bring more than one player to avoid being locked down.

[Paean]

I actually think being unable to heal the emperium is a very cool thing. It means damage dealt to the emperium matters. A single player getting past and hitting the emperium a few times creates a permenant (at least until siege ends or the castle breaks) liability to the defending guild. Previously if an attack did not completely destroy the emperium, the effort was worthless; any damage done was repaired in a minute, and the attacking guild is back to square one. Now when sieging a fort any damage you get onto the emperium brings you one step closer to a break, even if your attack ultimately fails. That's a good thing.

I like that you can't heal the emp but I wonder if there would be an improvement if the emp could healed itself over time, like 1/700th per 30 seconds. That way it would be harder to almost break the emp and then rush in at the end to finnish it. But that is just a wondering. I don't wanna see forumalic end stratagy return to woe.

Edited by Paean, 04 November 2010 - 01:22 AM.

[Akin]

I like that you can't heal the emp but I wonder if there would be an improvement if the emp could healed itself over time, like 1/700th per 30 seconds. That way it would be harder to almost break the emp and then rush in at the end to finnish it. But that is just a wondering. I don't wanna see forumalic end stratagy return to woe.

Well here's just a crazy idea that I don't see happening but what the hell.

What if the emp had special abilities based on the class of the guild leader?

Knight: Has higher HP
Priest: Slowly heals 1 hp over time like you suggested
Wizard: Randomly casts SG/MS/LV while being attacked
Hunter: Lays different traps between 5-10 cells away from itself
Blacksmith: Randomly Hammerfalls
Assassin: Places Poison Dust around it's base

Crusader: Has guard 5
Monk: Randomly casts SSS, TSS, Occult, and Spiritual Bestowment (just on allies)
Sage: Randomly casts Dispell on attackers
Bard/Dancer: Randomly casts Lullaby, Frost Joke, and Dazzler
Alchemist: Randomly summons plants, or casts Acid Terror/Bomb
Rogue: Randomly casts 1 of the divest skills on attackers

TKM: Uses Heat
Soul Linker: Gives Soul Linker link to leader when in range
Gunslinger: Either casts Desperado or places mines.
Ninja: Casts random ninja magic skills on attackers.

[Myzery]

Maybe if we all played Peter Pan online, but some of those ideas would be totally negated by raw stats.

[sgvince]

I believe dragon breath bypasses Elemental reduction,Racial reduction , Size Reduction.I think those were meant to be that way the way the formula works BUT IT also bypasses WOE reduction which is not ok.The fire trap from Rangers also bypasses WOE from what im seeing and im not sure on this last one cart cannon bypasses WOE I will probably need confirmation for this one.

u also cant interrupt cast time of dragon breath in woe. UNINTERRUPTIBLE IN WOE

[Viri]

After seeing tons of people cry about DB I tested its damage. It is reduced by WoE reduction which leads me to believe people are just senselessly crying about it not being reduced by WoE reduction. I know for a fact the firing traps are also reduced(about 6.2k out of woe, about 4k in WoE) this follows the standard expected 40% reduction. I think people are just underestimating damage or just low leveled or something.

[Prodigy]

Just because Phen doesn't work in WoE doesn't mean all skills are interruptible in WoE. All skills that are inherently interruptible (such as Grand Cross) are still uninterruptible in WoE. Of course Spell Break would still interrupt any casting regardless.

[Mwrip]

Just because Phen doesn't work in WoE doesn't mean all skills are interruptible in WoE. All skills that are inherently interruptible (such as Grand Cross) are still uninterruptible in WoE. Of course Spell Break would still interrupt any casting regardless.

Sac is always an option as well, provided you have a second to get the sac link going.

[CocaCola]

DB and Cart Cannon DO NOT bypass the 40% range redux in woe. Go test in pvp and woe pvp rooms yourself.

[famiong]

I think the level-based effects in WoE should also be removed - that is, the effect of level on status resistance/etc. Higher level characters are already much stronger due to their higher hp/sp/stats, greater selection of skills, and the damage bonuses that many skills have based on level. Level does not need to be artificially made more significant in WoE.

I second this. Level-based effects in WOE is totally unfair especially for classes which cannot go higher than 99, namely all Extended Classes. It's bad enough that Extended Classes cannot equip Dark Bacilium and Valk Armor for Status Resistance. With the introduction of Renewal, there's no feasible way to be Status Resistant, not even with 100 Base Status.

Introducing a Non-Trans WOE is not a solution. Waiting for future releases of Extended Classes level 150, maybe 1 or 2 years from now is also not a solution.

Edited by famiong, 08 November 2010 - 08:16 AM.

[Andini]

it would be nice for sense to work on an emp (from skill/observor and not just from a bow merc)