254 replies to this topic

[MagicHands]

Oh and i dont know why anyone mentions TC as a leveling or a WoE skill build. Honestly its only good with a follow up to GoH someone or fist them and if you use it for leveling your waisting a great amount of supplies even with a +9 Rideword hat because of the 15%/30% chunch of hp and sp it takes. That is not a build, its just a skill used to follow up with something you build your character around IE GFist or GoH.

[TOAST7312]

Ok, so is this 3 second zen after-cast delay a new thing that was put in recently? Because forget about Rampage Blast, our leveling tool, being on a long cooldown, now zen has a 3 second cast and 3 seconds afterwards that we can do nothing but punch in. No skills whatsoever.

I don't understand why this was necessary. I thought this was the entire reason they added the fixed cast time to Gfist and Zen; to make it so we couldn't spam it so hard or so fast. Now I can't even effectively level properly without spamming more pots then I can afford to. Seriously, why was this needed?

Please, fix whats broken. Not what isn't. Go add delay time to Cart Cannon or nerf its damage and stop taking away from an already seriously gimped class. Everyone else can do far more with much less then we do right now.

EDIT:
"I do NOT expect that particular change to be permanent, it will likely change to some other timer like a fixed cast time of enough length to be meaningful."

"Right now the zen skill allows a bit too much mobility compared to other classes, I want to see what happens when the choice to use zen to kill and escape carries a little more thought process."

So you're immobilizing us then telling us to run away? Are we in a Saw movie or something?

"Lets play a game. I've put you in a room with many strong monsters you use to be able to kill. I've also strapped 2-ton weights to each limb.If you run away you will survive, but you will never level again."

You mean the mobility of Ranger/SC traps and Cart Cannon? Axe Hurricane? You mean the mobility/power they were given to spam-and-forget? I think it was fine the way it was. Stop trying to make Sura a one-hit glass cannon. that MUST run away. That's stupid if you're not going to do it for other classes.

The ironic thing is they did this 'test' during the extended double XP event. So the option to level exists, but I can't because my class is so gimped that I can't properly function without spamming ales.

Edited by TOAST7312, 27 May 2011 - 10:03 AM.

[JAYRAD]

suggestion for nerfing the class so that they are less mobile: make snap always consume spheres regardless of fury status.

[TOAST7312]

suggestion for nerfing the class so that they are less mobile: make snap always consume spheres regardless of fury status.

As far as PVM is concerned, it's our mobbing tool. And the point of the skill was supposed to be spammability; you were supposed to be able to move incredibly fast with it. They weren't concerned so much with our actual ability to move so much as our resourcefulness. Sura is very widespread in it's skill coverage, and nerfing Zen makes it so we can't do as much. At least that's what I take from what he said.

The problem is you're nerfing the class' primary function. Nor was it an issue that needed to be addressed to begin with. The real issue is Rampage Blast's ineffectiveness as compared to other class' AoE skills. Granted Cart Cannon costs money, but we're talking about a class that is designed to make money. It's why they have greed and crafting and overcharge and . And lets not even get started on Dragon Breath.

[JAYRAD]

As far as PVM is concerned, it's our mobbing tool. And the point of the skill was supposed to be spammability; you were supposed to be able to move incredibly fast with it. They weren't concerned so much with our actual ability to move so much as our resourcefulness. Sura is very widespread in it's skill coverage, and nerfing Zen makes it so we can't do as much. At least that's what I take from what he said.

The problem is you're nerfing the class' primary function. Nor was it an issue that needed to be addressed to begin with. The real issue is Rampage Blast's ineffectiveness as compared to other class' AoE skills. Granted Cart Cannon costs money, but we're talking about a class that is designed to make money. It's why they have greed and crafting and overcharge and . And lets not even get started on Dragon Breath.

alchs dont have greed, try again

fact of the matter is that something's gotta give with the class, i would rather it be limiting my mobility than destroying my #1 way of obtaining spheres.

i mean as it stand best tactic in pvp right now sura v sura is to absorb enemy sura's spheres make them zen, snap in and own them.

Edited by JAYRAD, 27 May 2011 - 01:25 PM.

[TOAST7312]

alchs dont have greed, try again

*shrug* They still make pots and sell them for exorbitant prices. Don't tell me they took that out, eh. They -are- still a merchant class, and therefore more capable of making money then other classes, therefore the 'weakness' of having to buy what they need to spam their skills isn't really a weakness per sei.

[TOAST7312]

alchs dont have greed, try again

fact of the matter is that something's gotta give with the class, i would rather it be limiting my mobility than destroying my #1 way of obtaining spheres.

i mean as it stand best tactic in pvp right now sura v sura is to absorb enemy sura's spheres make them zen, snap in and own them.

That strategy won't work now as it will take too long for both you and your enemies to zen their spheres back. Something else would likely kill you before you could. Taking away Fury's sphere cost reduction could theoretically do it, but form then on I wouldn't see a point to taking it. It effectively nerfs my uses of the skill anyhow.

[JAYRAD]

do you even play this class? i do this like 20 times a day and it never fails.

[MagicHands]

Absorbing orbs is still pretty effective but there are many ways to counter against it. About snap....listen there are only a very few classes now that dont have an insane walk speed or a boost of some kind. Snap was a great skill pre renewal and it still is now, with the delay on Guillotine fist it is still not overpowered and as for using snap for pvm that is the only reason it makes the class even comparable to leveling on par with most 3rd class characters. Talk about the faults of certain skills rather than giving a biased opinion about what is "OP". Renewal has barely started and we have yet to see the potential for each class. Right now I think we should be concerned about the skill that have just been implemented rather ones that have been around for ages.

[Lucentos]

The Cursed Circle imbalance should be solved, since it is just free win vs any single target in PvP/WoE. IMHO CC should consume all spheres regardless of amount locked people to prevent comboing with GFist and GoH. By the way GoH also needed a bit higher aftercast delay to make Killer Suras more reliable to Bragi and other Aftercast reduction things.

[Mefistofeles]

The Cursed Circle imbalance should be solved, since it is just free win vs any single target in PvP/WoE. IMHO CC should consume all spheres regardless of amount locked people to prevent comboing with GFist and GoH. By the way GoH also needed a bit higher aftercast delay to make Killer Suras more reliable to Bragi and other Aftercast reduction things.

Cursued circle its bugged or buffed up, it never was suposed to have 100% succes rate(in our glorious iro now it have, becouse at the first 3 mothns Cursed circle succes rate was based on caster level and foe, NOW NO) also cursed circle now waits to cancels when the sura finished the cast time of any skill, when it was suposed to be canceled in the instant that the sura STARTS CASTING another skill

AND sorry for you, but white imprison can beat cursed circle

Edited by Mefistofeles, 02 June 2011 - 11:44 PM.

[Viri]

Cursued circle its bugged or buffed up, it never was suposed to have 100% succes rate(in our glorious iro now it have, becouse at the first 3 mothns Cursed circle succes rate was based on caster level and foe, NOW NO) also cursed circle now waits to cancels when the sura finished the cast time of any skill, when it was suposed to be canceled in the instant that the sura STARTS CASTING another skill

AND sorry for you, but white imprison can beat cursed circle

Neither of the things stated were ever true. You're making it up entirely. It's the way it is now on kro too, has always been. Do you ever post anything factual/not retarded?

[Unifan]

he never post anything factual viri, just like the time he posted that white imprison is so OP, he even died to it xD

[MagicHands]

For me Cursed Circle should prevent Sura from using GFist and GoH for entire duration of CC.

Yea let them just sit there and do nothing!Of course Cursed Circled is Overpowered I will agree with anyone on that, but not allowing any skills is rediculious. I would say instead of nerfing just change the AoE of it and give it more time. Make level 5 CC 3x3 but just increase the amount of time there frozen. Still the same outcome, but doesnt allow for large groups of people to be wiped out.

[MagicHands]

Except the problem is, the consensus was gfist seriously NEEDED a nerf in renewal, especially with how easy they made it to get spheres. So they finally make it so there's a decent cast time on it, nerf all other sorts of cast times too... and then out come the plethora of +9 glorious fists.

Suras were supposed to be good at taking out single, tough targets, but I do not believe it was supposed to be BY THEMSELVES. Everyone should have the ability to defend themselves from one-shot abilities, otherwise the game just becomes a race to see who can amass the most amount of the most imba class and spam the same OP abilities faster.

The other problem is.. you're a noob. No one is going to be surviving any decent gfists.

Well since i actually PLAY a sura, i can tell you that previously with the cast time of the +9 KVM fist alot of people could live my fist and the people that were tough single targets I needed to use a +9 kvm Morningstar in order to do enough damage. I was using a bryn and very good gears along with 4 different +10 foods. Apparently you dont play that often because most of the classes that arent nerfed into the ground have a way to counter even the +9 Kvm fist. Its the skill and the reaction time that they lack. Now im going to point out around 5 classes that can react to an instant cast gfist all the while making you look like a retard. RG's have reflect and guard even if we kill them if the sura is good not only are we likely to die, but the people around them as well. Shadow Chasers....I shouldnt even have to mention Shadow Formation, but apparently that skill doesnt exist along with Masquerade Ignorance and Weakness. Warlocks have both Saftey Wall and Energy Coat. RK's Have stormblast and Millenium shield. Wanderers and Maestros have a decent hp pool along with the ability to use a CK Fberet and Cranial, Also they have a skill to reduce the added bonuses from buffs....Deep sleep... Sorcerers have Saftey wall and Blinding mist along with a pet that can target and interrupt almost any skill. to be honest there are very few classes that have an actual way to combat Guillotine fist, Guillotine Crosses and Arch Bishops are two of those classes. There is a brief discussion on how to defend yourself against a Sura, maybe next time you will think twice before opening your mouth and think about whats coming out of it beforehand. Also there are many ways to disable Suras as well, i see it time and time again, and if you want any pointers on how to stop/slow down there movements, just talk to almost anyone else and i think they can point you in the right direction. Stop griping about dieing to someone who is overgeared to the teeth, go level and maybe you might understand on how to play a tiny fragment of this game.

[Mefistofeles]

Well since i actually PLAY a sura, i can tell you that previously with the cast time of the +9 KVM fist alot of people could live my fist and the people that were tough single targets I needed to use a +9 kvm Morningstar in order to do enough damage. I was using a bryn and very good gears along with 4 different +10 foods. Apparently you dont play that often because most of the classes that arent nerfed into the ground have a way to counter even the +9 Kvm fist. Its the skill and the reaction time that they lack. Now im going to point out around 5 classes that can react to an instant cast gfist all the while making you look like a retard. RG's have reflect and guard even if we kill them if the sura is good not only are we likely to die, but the people around them as well. Shadow Chasers....I shouldnt even have to mention Shadow Formation, but apparently that skill doesnt exist along with Masquerade Ignorance and Weakness. Warlocks have both Saftey Wall and Energy Coat. RK's Have stormblast and Millenium shield. Wanderers and Maestros have a decent hp pool along with the ability to use a CK Fberet and Cranial, Also they have a skill to reduce the added bonuses from buffs....Deep sleep... Sorcerers have Saftey wall and Blinding mist along with a pet that can target and interrupt almost any skill. to be honest there are very few classes that have an actual way to combat Guillotine fist, Guillotine Crosses and Arch Bishops are two of those classes. There is a brief discussion on how to defend yourself against a Sura, maybe next time you will think twice before opening your mouth and think about whats coming out of it beforehand. Also there are many ways to disable Suras as well, i see it time and time again, and if you want any pointers on how to stop/slow down there movements, just talk to almost anyone else and i think they can point you in the right direction. Stop griping about dieing to someone who is overgeared to the teeth, go level and maybe you might understand on how to play a tiny fragment of this game.

you should never mention safety crap..... any skills pierces that retarded nerf skill, you dont believe me? lets put same safety wall formula to pneuma and you will know what means "ass pain", also arrullo have looooooooooooooooooooooooonger cast time than instant gfist....(im happy with the change of the kvm fist) but cursed circle needs to be tested properly, becouse now the succes rate its 100% no mattter what you do, the level of caster and foe dont affect anymore

Edited by Mefistofeles, 04 June 2011 - 09:06 AM.

[Mefistofeles]

Yea let them just sit there and do nothing!Of course Cursed Circled is Overpowered I will agree with anyone on that, but not allowing any skills is rediculious. I would say instead of nerfing just change the AoE of it and give it more time. Make level 5 CC 3x3 but just increase the amount of time there frozen. Still the same outcome, but doesnt allow for large groups of people to be wiped out.

what about instant cancel CC effect when the sura starts to cast any other skill? like it was in the first 3 months of renewal? and fixing the bug about 100% success rate?

[MagicHands]

Stop posting in this forum because obviously you dont play at all. Saftey wall still gives reduction vs any melee dmg, but depending on the casters HP it takes more damage. That could mean the difference between life and death, but do you see them use it? No, because they would rather whine and complain that a Sura is OP than actually have any sort of challenge or any skill.

[FiskBlack]

Stop posting in this forum because obviously you dont play at all. Saftey wall still gives reduction vs any melee dmg, but depending on the casters HP it takes more damage. That could mean the difference between life and death, but do you see them use it? No, because they would rather whine and complain that a Sura is OP than actually have any sort of challenge or any skill.

You are the one who don't seem to play at all, safety wall doesnt give any reduction unless the damage dealt is lower than the caster HP. And obviously SW formula is broken, if you ever use SW on WL/Sorc/AB you would know what im trying to explain.
For example SW is useless against GFist but is useful for agi GX, there are differences with the skill, and i think it should be back at the old formula.
You are none than another member to tell people to stop posting, be cool and do nice feedbacks.
Of course this is not related with Sura thread same as your last post.

Edited by FiskBlack, 04 June 2011 - 01:39 PM.

[Viri]

You can instant arullo...

[DieNasty]

I would suggest removing spheres completely. Why force the Sura class to cast a skill in order to cast another skill? I don't know why you guys are complaining about the Sura's gfist when this skill has already been nerfed ever since it came out. In order for a Sura to even cast Gfist, he or she must 1st cast Zen, 2nd Fury, and lastly Zen again in order to cast the Gfist. This is not fair for those who doesn't have a KVM fist.

Correction: I meant to say +9 KVM fist. There is a big different between a KVM fist and a +9 KVM fist.

Edited by DieNasty, 20 July 2011 - 09:38 AM.

[Nitro]

Man, what? Looks pretty easy to Gfirst in my trials. Not like you have to wait to cast Zen and Fury until you actually see the enemy. Only time you need to worry about casting it is after the first target dies to Gfist and you need to juice up again.

[DieNasty]

Can you also reduce the volume for Skyblow? The doctors said that I suffer from bleeding ears because of this skill.

[Siunar]

I would suggest removing spheres completely. Why force the Sura class to cast a skill in order to cast another skill? I don't know why you guys are complaining about the Sura's gfist when this skill has already been nerfed ever since it came out. In order for a Sura to even cast Gfist, he or she must 1st cast Zen, 2nd Fury, and lastly Zen again in order to cast the Gfist. This is not fair for those who doesn't have a KVM fist.

Realistically with Rising Dragon, a Sura can either...

Rising Dragon > GFist.

or

With RD Active, Zen (15 Spheres) > Fury (10 Spheres) > GFist and this isnt considering a +9 Kvm Fist.

[neji2k]

snap needs a cool down CC should cost all spirit spheres or something to stop the gfist nonsense