254 replies to this topic

[JAYRAD]

if anything needs to be changed, it's the re-use delay after rampage blast.

[Lucentos]

 JAYRAD, on 20 February 2011 - 10:16 AM, said:

if anything needs to be changed, it's the re-use delay after rampage blast.

Yeah. With damage nerf this skill should have it`s Reuse delay halved.

[Puppet]

 Viri, on 02 February 2011 - 09:42 AM, said:

Should not compare leveling with god items to base leveling speeds. Without TWO belts up to 140 is kinda rough. After that 1 belt is fine. On ymir lots of people have access to these but not everyone, the game shouldn't be built around god items lol.

I think all god items should be permanently removed from the game or at least from use in woe. But that another story about another unblanceness of the game.

 Lucentos, on 20 February 2011 - 04:57 PM, said:

Yeah. With damage nerf this skill should have it`s Reuse delay halved.

I would love RB to lose its delay atleast in PVM, WOE maybe a different story but it not gona one shot no one with current reductions



Also I have noticed Knuckle arrows does now show its additional damage on Boss tagged or monsters that are hit up against a wall. At least it dont look like it does cause the ammount of damage I do dont seem to add up to the max HP of the monster I attacking unless the wiki DB is really out dated. It does show 2 sets of damage in PVP when you hit people up against a wall

Edited by Puppet, 21 February 2011 - 08:53 AM.

[Ralis]

Actually going through the skill list for Suras... Is it just me or do they basically get improved versions of skills from every other class?

Windmill > RG's Moonslasher
Gentle Touch-Cure > AB's Clearance (by far)
Gentle Touch-Convert > Sorcerer's Striking
Tiger Cannon > Paladin's Gloria Domini, Scholar's Soul Siphon
Crescent Elbow > RK's Deathbound
Lion Howling > Maestro's Destruction Song
Earth Shaker > Warlock's Earth Strain

Etc. etc. etc.

Edited by Ralis, 23 February 2011 - 08:24 PM.

[Viri]

Wow, ralis. You're retarded. Most of those skills aren't even similar. LOL

[Aeolus]

 Ralis, on 23 February 2011 - 02:02 PM, said:

Actually going through the skill list for Suras... Is it just me or do they basically get improved versions of skills from every other class?

Windmill > RG's Moonslasher
1.)Gentle Touch-Cure > AB's Clearance (by far)
2.)Gentle Touch-Convert > Sorcerer's Striking
3.)Tiger Cannon > Paladin's Gloria Domini, Scholar's Soul Siphon
4.)Crescent Elbow > RK's Deathbound
5.)Lion Howling > Maestro's Destruction Song
6.)Earth Shaker > Warlock's Earth Strain

Etc. etc. etc.

1.) No, it doesn't. (Although it is more useful for getting status' such as burning or freezing)
2.) Striking doesn't take as many pre-req's and the only sura's using convert are going to either be slaves or they are built for knuckle arrow (Which is not as good as GoH imo)
3.) Both of those skills are trans class skills, not renewal.
4.) Once again this skill requires pre-reqs which no sura would really get.
5.) What?...
6.) Last time I checked Earth Shaker does not divest.

[Ralis]

They're not similar, they're better in many cases.

Explain to me how Gentle Touch Cure isn't better than Clearance. Clearance removes EVERYTHING, including buffs. Gentle Touch Cure removes only the negative effects, can be used on the Sura while under effects of those statuses and also heals the target.

I don't give a rip about what the pre-reqs are and who is or isn't going to get the skill. The pre-reqs have nothing to do with what I was saying.

Lion Howling removes Maestro / Wanderer buffs, whereas the skill actual Maestros and Wanderers get to remove it requires a duet.

For Earth Shaker, I meant it's comparable to Earth Drive, my mistake.

[Braska]

you cant cure yourself out of Masq. Ignorance. That's how.

[Viri]

Or howling, or leech end.
Earth drive removes pneuma and ... earth shaker does not?
Tiger cannon is point blank and takes a huge chunk of the casters HP...
Crescent elbow and deathbound are pretty similar, in no way better tho

[Braska]

And curse of oblivion!!

[MagicHands]

 Viri, on 09 February 2011 - 10:30 PM, said:

Tell me you did this beltless and I'll be impressed. Otherwise, lol'd

+1 this Lolz
Im sorry but at 130 i tried leveling at dragons i used a +8 Double Dragoon Carga Mace 2x Megs Bryn +9 Saggitarius Crown Slepnirs all +10 Stat food +20 str and Dex along with 110 base str
I was able to one shot dragons with all that and i promise if you gave those items to almost any other class....they would have a field day almost anywhere.I know Ymir has a million and one god items. Think outside the box and remember not everyone is like you, put yourself in everyones shoes....not just yourself with many god items.

[MagicHands]

Ralis you have to be point blank range for Gentle Touch, clearance you dont. Gentle Touch only cures simple stuff, Clearance gets rid of MH and poison or status alignment. The only reason the Gentle touch cure is somewhat Op is because you can cure yourself from stun frozen or stone curse. @ The people who think gfist is too OP have you seen the RKs and RG's running around with over 130k hp? and you think its unfair because we can barely kill them with god items....and not only that, but we die in the process because of +14 Valk immunes.
Also getting the gentle touches goes completely out of your way for GoH and i have never once seen Lions Howling....lol.
Honestly Earth Shaker unhides people and if your lucky it might stun them or maybe hit along with the fact that you have to be up close to whatever your unhiding which is never a good thing along with the little skill delay it has before you can do anything else meaning that they will be able to attack you before you can react with any skills. Earth Shaker is one of our weakest skills along with Gentle Touch Silence and Power Implantation which are unbelievably worthless.

[MagicHands]

One thing i would like to bring up that is very irratating....Honestly i dont know why RB is still nerfed so much and has almost any delay at all. it does a good amount of dmg, but it still lacks in comparison to almost any other leveling skill. The Delay is so horrible that the only thing you can do if you dont one shot them is either flywing away or wait a good amount of time before you can rb the mob again. Yes it is good at higher levels because you not only have Gentle Touch Convert and use of Lighting Ride as well, but it is so difficult leveling with it at the start. Yet Genetics can do 20k dmg per cart cannon with gears that dont even compare to mine, along with no cast delay. Or you see Rangers or Shadow Chasers fire trapping away, they may not do an insane amount of damage, but use virtually no supplies whatsoever.Rgs can shield reflect and with moderatley good gears they can use again almost no supplies. RK's they have dragon breath which can do over 20k dmg and where is there skill delay...i see none. Alas the only leveling skill that we have....has such a huge skill delay and we use an insane amount of supplies waiting to use that skill again.

[MagicHands]

Ralis I am still boggled as to why you even mentioned Earth Shaker. Yes it does have maybe a little use...but to be honest this skill has to be the top most pathetic skill i have seen via 3rd class. The damage is laughable that is even if you hit them which most of the time it doesnt, like i said before the skill delay in it.....maybe leveled to level 5 it would be worth it but to be honest ruwach can do a better job because it doesnt have that skill delay and it also has a larger range it can find people and I would not waist my skill points leveling it because we do have a moderate amount of good skills. Not alot should be changed about the sura, i see very few tweaks needed to be added or taken away. Its OTHER classes who need to be tweaked for the better. GoH is sadly a slight OP but with RKs and RGs having 140k it doesnt seem all that great.......they pot through GoH quite well. Sadly I can kill a 150 AB at 130 gearless.

[MagicHands]

Oh and if anyone whines about god items with Rampage blast in pvp they must not be sensible in the least bit. Even with out the skill delay Genetics can dominate in dmg versus zen RB zen rb zen, Along with the huge sp consumption i dont think anyone should disagree with the skill delay of RB being lowered if not completely removed.

[MagicHands]

Oh and just for thought, Yea give me a tao on a 150 Sura i can kill 3 people definetly, now Give it to a 150 RK oh he just wiped 3/4's of a guild and didnt have to use 90% of his sp to do so

[Andini]

if you are gonna defend your class, at least gets facts right. there are so many wrong things said in the past posts.

[MagicHands]

Andini if your going to open your mouth at least tell me what was wrong with my post. All you could say that there was many things said wrong, but all i see is you opening your mouth and nothing important to say. So please, if you have any accusations against me....please...please.....say something worth some kind of valuable input, other than that keep your lips closed.

[Nilami]

I guess I'm only slightly disappointed with Sura - it's a new class to move up to, so that's exciting, with lots of new things to try. But I look forward to the next future class with more anticipation than I do working towards Sura.

I have only ever played combo-style, made complete builds around combos for fun, and look forward to champ/monk various cooperative combos more than I do with the Sura skill tree and the way it is organized so far. Yes, the many AoE skills are interesting, but PvM builds don't necessarily want to drain a major portion of their SP to do damage and then have to deal with the mobs afterwards and waste a ton of supplies trying to survive. Yes, I will probably enjoy having new skills that will balance the complete LOSS that OI and TSS are now, but I have yet to hear someone say "-Sura skill- is a great improvement/replacement for -monk skill-". All they say so far is "Fix OI and TSS" because those skills were outstanding in their own way and allowed for a greater diversity of builds.

I think I saw someone else mention this before in this thread, but the Sura skill tree just does not allow for a great variety of builds that the monk skill tree allowed. I think we all expected there to be more than just one set of final skills for Sura to decide on. Back in the day, monks could be TSS/OI dominant, MS tankers, GF killers, Combo stackers, or many other styles, and their stats reflected their focus on those final skills. I feel like I'm being funneled into one type of play by the sura skill tree, especially with the Renewal changes for stats.

Anyway, that's my thoughts.

[JAYRAD]

seriously? with 50 skill points you cant really have a dominant skill tree. so far there are 4 main builds: GoH, KA, TC, and G-Fist w/ GT buffs. and even then there are more things you can get with the left over points, there is no cookie cutter build other than the cookie cutter GoH which goes 10GoH 10RD 3CC 5RB.

[MagicHands]

 Nilami, on 30 March 2011 - 07:15 AM, said:

I guess I'm only slightly disappointed with Sura - it's a new class to move up to, so that's exciting, with lots of new things to try. But I look forward to the next future class with more anticipation than I do working towards Sura.

I have only ever played combo-style, made complete builds around combos for fun, and look forward to champ/monk various cooperative combos more than I do with the Sura skill tree and the way it is organized so far. Yes, the many AoE skills are interesting, but PvM builds don't necessarily want to drain a major portion of their SP to do damage and then have to deal with the mobs afterwards and waste a ton of supplies trying to survive. Yes, I will probably enjoy having new skills that will balance the complete LOSS that OI and TSS are now, but I have yet to hear someone say "-Sura skill- is a great improvement/replacement for -monk skill-". All they say so far is "Fix OI and TSS" because those skills were outstanding in their own way and allowed for a greater diversity of builds.

I think I saw someone else mention this before in this thread, but the Sura skill tree just does not allow for a great variety of builds that the monk skill tree allowed. I think we all expected there to be more than just one set of final skills for Sura to decide on. Back in the day, monks could be TSS/OI dominant, MS tankers, GF killers, Combo stackers, or many other styles, and their stats reflected their focus on those final skills. I feel like I'm being funneled into one type of play by the sura skill tree, especially with the Renewal changes for stats.

Anyway, that's my thoughts.

+1 to That it seems that the whole build of Sura is based off of WoE
I would like to see Suras being enjoyable for pvm

[Viri]

 MagicHands, on 12 April 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

+1 to That it seems that the whole build of Sura is based off of WoE
I would like to see Suras being enjoyable for pvm

What are you talking about? There are 3 or 4 viable builds for WoE each with its own strengths and weaknesses. People need to break out of all the ideas of pre renewal. That is gone. Adapt and actually look into new builds.

[Pururu]

I honestly think the only thing i actually liked about my sura is that i had alot of viable skill build option to choose from, unlike 90% of the other classes which have 1 or 2 if they are lucky (meaning some have none in my opinion).

Quote

I would like to see Suras being enjoyable for pvm

While i agree about this, it's actually true for every single class of the game. It's impossible to enjoy something which wasn't programmed to be so.
But same than woe build, sura at least have the luxury to try different things which actually can work, be it tc leveling, rb+lr, pure rb, or even a mix of rb and skynet blow. Would be perfect if something was done for 1 on 1 leveling so you could use ka aswell (can do it in dg though but it's not really fast).

Edited by Pururu, 12 April 2011 - 06:30 AM.

[MagicHands]

 Viri, on 12 April 2011 - 01:35 AM, said:

What are you talking about? There are 3 or 4 viable builds for WoE each with its own strengths and weaknesses. People need to break out of all the ideas of pre renewal. That is gone. Adapt and actually look into new builds.

Ok so there is Revitalize Build which is Mainly support and Guillotine Fist. Then you have GoH Build with a few skill points left over to get a few other skills. At lower levels it may seem like there are 3 or 4 builds but honestly that is the selection that you end up choosing. I dont even have to mention Knuckle arrow because going against higher level Characters it is a complete waist of skill points. Remember people are going to 150 sooner or later and thats when skills become obsolete to kill with. You have 2 WoE Builds No more, No less. You can make it sound like we have a million builds, but just because we get the skill doesnt mean we are that type of sura. It just means your using that skill as a prerequisite to get a better skill.

[MagicHands]

 Pururu, on 12 April 2011 - 06:29 AM, said:

I honestly think the only thing i actually liked about my sura is that i had alot of viable skill build option to choose from, unlike 90% of the other classes which have 1 or 2 if they are lucky (meaning some have none in my opinion).


While i agree about this, it's actually true for every single class of the game. It's impossible to enjoy something which wasn't programmed to be so.
But same than woe build, sura at least have the luxury to try different things which actually can work, be it tc leveling, rb+lr, pure rb, or even a mix of rb and skynet blow. Would be perfect if something was done for 1 on 1 leveling so you could use ka aswell (can do it in dg though but it's not really fast).

Yea, your right about that, but that brings up another point that we really cant be woe build and have a decent leveling build, or be leveling build and be great at woe. I hate the fact that i almost need 2-4 Neuralizers everytime WoE comes up then I wanna have to go back to leveling afterwards. At least with pre renewal if you did go Guillotine Fist build you could get into parties because you could do something like Mental Strength or TSS along with the build.Right now Suras seem to be waisting skill points on requirments that do close to nothing or quite useless such as the sura combos or Power implantation. rather than being used on something that might be of some use.