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#1 Njoror

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Posted 07 March 2014 - 10:26 AM

Hello.

 

This topic will be used to collect Monk class suggestions.

 

Please use the form below when submitting balance issues.

 

Remember, the more detail, image, or video that can be provided, the quicker these issues can be addressed.

 

Character Name:

Suggestion Type: (Example: Skill, Stats, Animation, etc)

Suggestion Description:

Video/Image Link (if applicable):


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#2 KaintheOmega

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 02:40 PM

Character Name:

Suggestion Type: Stats

Suggestion Description: Cast Speed, why is it there? Who knows? As all of our skills are known for being Instant aside from Steel Body & Ymir Child: Seraphim this stat is borderline useless for Monks. My suggestion would be to change it to something we could actually use; Critical since it already appears on some of our equipment, Haste, or even Dodge would be a better option.

Video/Image Link (if applicable):

Spoiler


Edited by KaintheOmega, 08 March 2014 - 02:41 PM.

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#3 Meconopsis

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Posted 08 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

I would say Dodge or Critical would be best instead of Cast Speed.


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#4 KaintheOmega

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:43 AM

Which in a way brings a 2nd thought to mind;
 
Character Name: KainTheLast
Suggestion Type: Stats
Suggestion Description: AGI -- is it our main stat, or is it's purpose more like INT for the Knight/Warrior? If the prior then why don't we have this on more of our equipment as well like other classes who don't get such bonuses yet receive about 200 more AGI than we do?
Video/Image Link (if applicable): I'd have obtained a Screen Shot of this, but TidusPeco's Knight vs Warrior vs Monk vs Beastmaster (raw numbers) Osiris gear topic makes a far better argument than a picture alone.
 

Character Name: KainTheLast

Suggestion Type: Skill

Suggestion Description: Monk is probably the only class without a buff or skill that benefits the party or raid. Even the other two classes barred from their first class Skills have something to bring to the table; Beastmasters with their 'Form' buffs, as well as an AoE heal; Soul Maker being a support class of course has a myriad of these as well anyway. We desperately need something we can also bring to the table so-to-speak. There are plenty of stats untouched by other class' party/raid buffs too so there are many possibilities.

Video/Image Link (if applicable): Unnecessary for this suggestion.

 


Edited by KaintheOmega, 09 March 2014 - 09:30 AM.

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#5 hankthewank

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:10 PM

Character Name:  Mufpi

Suggestion Type: : Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Heavy Tackle

Suggestion Description: Heavy Tackle should be our finishing move but it doesn't feel that way.

                                     It does 615% Weapon damage for 27sp and Raging Blow does 350% for 2 sp that not even twice the damage.

                                     The 5% chance to stun is really nice but doesn't help at all when there are mutliple enemies around.

                                      So my suggestion would be to let it hit 2 or 3 additional targets when they're around but keep the stun when there's

                                       only one mob and increase the damage or at least rebalance it with Raging Blow (like 300%RB and 750%HT)

 

Video/Image Link (If applicable):---

 

 

Character Name:  Mufpi

Type: : Skill

Skill (If Applicable): Crushing Blow

Suggestion Description: I like skills that split up their damage in direct damage and a dot but this skill feels wierd to me as it has

                                    less than 2s Cooldown (10/10 points with osiris gear) and the dot holds for 15 seconds but the initial damage

                                    is lower than the one from Raging Blow (294% to 350%) so the only good use to press the button more

                                    often than every 15s  is that it generates 2 Spirit Spheres  for more Heavy Tackle(see above) or faster

                                    Fury Explosion at the beginning of the fight.

                                    What i suggest here is to switch the effect of Throw Spirit Sphere and Crushing Blow. Give Throw Spirit

                                    Sphere  a dot like an ignite or something and change Crushing Blow to applying a debuff with 3 stacks onto

                                    the enemy which increases the damage taken by ALL!(to provide the monk some raid/group buff)

                                    Sources by 5-10% per Stack with a short duration.

 

 

Character Name:  Mufpi

SuggestionType: : Animation

Skill (If Applicable):Fury Explosion

Suggestion Description: The Skill description says:"You enter Fury stance". My imagination is im Enraging, going freaking Berserk but

                                   the animation is like is poop in my pants and that gives me 30% Attack Power and am able to use a

                                   powerfull Skill the Guillotine Fist. As im not good in 3d Animation and even worse in drawing i have no suggestion for

                                   a new animation.

                               

                                 That point is not as important as the the other two above but i wanted to point it out aswell.


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#6 Meconopsis

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

This is not really a suggestion as of yet but more of a basis question on where the Monk Community want the Monk to go. I would normally ask questions and then I think the best result is to come to a conclusion to what players want from Monk, how outside players want Monk to function, and how to make the Monk class unique.

 

Most likely, the devs won't bother with feedback like this, but if they want to save an entire class from being a laughingstock of their game, then they need to know that the Monk Skill Tree needs a rework, again.

 

So... A few starting questions would be good.

-What role do you want Monk to partake in Raid content (Or party content in general)?

-Should Monk have more skills, or readjustment of the current skills via number balance?

-How should Monk's gear function? Should it have AGI? Or...?

-What should Monk be focused in Stat-wise? Dodge? Or...?

 

Those are yet a few that need to be discussed before tossing around numbers, cause frankly, Monk's skill tree is pretty lame.


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#7 KaintheOmega

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Posted 11 March 2014 - 10:54 PM

I hope they don't just throw higher/lower numbers at us like crazy. I'll admit I wouldn't mind a change or two; here or there. It's embarrassing enough though that of a lot if not all of our skills just feel copy-pasted from other classes' in exact or somewhat similar effect. So what we need is a rework (as no more skills would fit in our tree anyway).

This class feels like it was meant more for DPS with a touch of survival than anything. I wouldn't mind some form of Support either as most classes other than Monk can obtain.
AGI feels like a stat that should be important to us for obvious reasons. Our class bonus grants us 1 more Dodge per & we get Critical all the same.
That's if we could get more of it on our equipment like so many others who don't benefit as we do. Hit rate aside.
Not to mention the INT we can take advantage of that other physical classes other than Swordsmen can't from things like accessories and titles. After that it's obviously STR & VIT.
In terms of secondaries, Critical, Dodge, & Vigor all feel like wise choices. Although Vigor itself isn't unique to any class that I know of. I'd say Haste but our attack speed comes from the frequent use of our skills more than through auto-attacks.

All in all at the moment though, we are pretty lame. This is all just off the top of my head too.


Edited by KaintheOmega, 11 March 2014 - 10:55 PM.

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#8 Meconopsis

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:28 AM

Well the first step is brainstorming possible skills and pinpoint pointless additions.

I really think Monk deserve a DPS stance, much like Aura Sword or Bear Form.
Make the stance appear at the very end of the tree similar to Steel Body.

Internal Wound needs to be removed or moved to G-Fist and the properties of it changed. As of now Internal Wound is unreliable and the benefits for it could cause possible issues for balancing.

Rework Flee and Iron Skin. The former is a weak skill with no incentive to use unless Monks get AGI on gears and Iron Skin adds little defense since I believe it increases base defense, which is defenses outside the 200% boost we get from Steel Body.

There is more but I hope our VCRs can come up with more suggestions since I feel like I'm just basing this off my super old monk balance thread.
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#9 KaintheOmega

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 03:05 PM

My mind is still juggling around the ideas for DPS. As we get two damage increases already in the forms of Ki Explosion & Throw Spirit Sphere.
Although for the latter to be very effective you need to send the extra 5 points (which of course 30%+20% is nothing to scoff at) - but only at Master Level does the effect begin to scale.
I believe Iron Skin should be incorporated into Steel Body for obvious reasons. Iron Skin just feels like a 5 point filler that wasn't really necessary anyway.
It's like Gravity ran out of ideas & split the (near) completely passive toggle we already have - in two. Steel Body needs a bit of touching up too, as removing the cost of Ki Protection is hardly beneficial when others get their similar skills at no cost. Not to mention the more useful effects the other defensive toggles possess.


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#10 Meconopsis

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:24 PM

To be brutally honest, if it was me, I would -

-Give Monk conditional passive bonus, such as all passive skills have an offensive and defensive mode.
-Give Monk a damage stance, which increases all monk skill damage, give increased vigor bonus and increase attack power.
-Remove the skill damage increase from TSS. Replace with a DoT.
-Make Iron Skin passive give increased VIT stat or AGI depending on stance alongside the defensive increase.
-Remake Flee into a counter buff (needs new name) which increases Dodge rate for a duration, allowing enemy missed attacks during that duration trigger a counterattack.
-Remove Crushing Blow's DoT effect. Replace with Debuff that stacks up 5 times, lowering enemy's defenses.
-Remove Internal Wound from Heavy Tackle. Increase damage of skill.
-Remove Internal Wound and 20% bonus off G-Fist. Replace with Increase Damage based off Crushing Blow debuff stacked. Consumes all Crushing Blow stacks.
-Turn G-Fist 100% critical hit from Knock Down to Internal Wound.
-Give Lightning Walk Internal Wound. Remove Knock Down. Lower duration of Internal Wound.

These are just a few of my radical changes. My plan was to give Monks a more hybrid role, allowing them to perform via one of the two stances, which makes them suitable for DPS or Main Tanking. The defense decrease to enemies makes Monk contribute an active role for the team by constantly giving them increased damage overall on the target, giving them party value against high defensive targets, giving G-Fist a reasonable build-up. Internal Wound mechanic becomes improved to be reliable by putting it on the longer cooldown Lightning Walk, and G-Fist changed to suit the combination from Crushing Blow. Flee is reworked to give the tank area a more offensive approach to tanking, which builds better threat and makes Monk able to deal with multiple enemies if they so please, but not as good as other tanks, so there is some variety to picking up the skill.

The monk's main approach should follow main tanking as no tank specializes in it, so by giving them tools to better deal with a single target such as boss-possible stun along with countering attacks aka. make the bonus Dodge more effective alongside the buff as well as giving them the best single target burst damage. Monk should not be able to outpace a true DPS class's overall damage but they should be the tank with the most single target damage out of the tank classes.

 

I'm basing this off that Knights should have more team utilities, Warrior has more AoE Threat Generation, and Beastmaster has high health and self-defensive, while Monk should be high damage and offensive.

 

Their niche does not come from healing or party buffs but what they can directly do to a boss or single target that makes some of my ideas a good starting point for the class to be more playable for a general populace interested in Monk.


Edited by Meconopsis, 16 March 2014 - 06:22 PM.

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#11 Vaiki

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:27 PM

They can always make Steel Body max at 1 point and give us 4 more stances that also max at 1 skill point to give a variety of different paths we could go. Similar to that of the Beastmaster stances but different in which each stance allows us to adapt to different situations. eg. PvP/Raid/PvE.

I would like to correct the 'want' of several individuals that want access to the first skill tree, but this seems impossible since we barely have enough skill points to max even our monk tree, we definitely wont be able to spare any points for our first job tree. The only option here is to change the current skills or improve them. 

There's a lot to be done and it won't come instantly so I hope as monks we have the patience to wait. The knight class definitely complains a lot, heck even warriors complain about not having a gap closer [cough 9second battle leap], but if we want a revamp on all the skills it will take time.

The first and foremost issues that should be addressed for me would be the hit/dodge formula. 
Fixing the hit/dodge formula should change the game completely, with the ability to hit more, the classes SHOULD be a bit more balanced. This not only enables our class to stray from going full AGI but it makes knights viable to go full INT. The change here re-enables the ability to build differently stat wise.

The second thing to be fixed should be the cast speed on our gears, we should decide what it should be replaced with. Most likely it would be haste... but I guess we can petition for dodge/parry/crit?

 

Vestria's above post seems to be catered towards the assumption that the monks would have a moderately good hit rate in order for that skill build to be implemented. With crushing blow stacking 5 times, and hitting a lightning walk AND a gfist is extremely unlikely. My comment on this would be it would only work right now for PvE and in a PvP aspect. The only change I would suggest is to make the DEF debuff be placed on Raging Blow instead of Crushing Blow.


Edited by Vaiki, 18 March 2014 - 07:29 PM.

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#12 Meconopsis

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 08:00 PM

I feel like stance skills are interesting, but they touch the realm of Beastmaster's theme, which would make monk less wanted if beastmasters could do it better.

That want of the acolyte skill tree is something that I wouldn't want. Nor do we have points enough to make use of it. So, yes, we have to change our current skills so that those complaints will be quelled. Interesting enough, most of those complaints state monks need heals, which gives the acolyte class a lot of power. It also goes back to monks wanting a party buff, or any party contribution. So this is a problem we as monk players have to deal with when we keep suggesting.

And you make a good point Vaiki about my remake suggestions. They are based off if the game's stat system and hit/dodge are fixed where a monk could moderately be able to connect hits 85% of the time. There could be better options I could of gone with, but given what players want and defining a concept for the class, I want them to be a class which could be the only one able to inflict debuffs and buffs to whither down enemies. In a way, I want them to do what the other three tanks can't, which I feel will restore players to picking up a monk as their main.

Also about the PvP part, I thought about giving their Raging Blows the defense debuff but I also wanted a sort of counter play so that achieving maxed out defense debuff will require work. But I also want Crushing Blow's cooldown to be lowered to reflect that it can be a good rotation skill then what it is now.

I also want to talk about a monk's defensive options and offensive options. I would love if anybody, monk player or not give me or Vaiki suggestions on how they want monk to be. As it stands now, there are people who have no clue what a monk is or want them deleted from the game (jokingly). So what is a monk in this game?

Edited by Meconopsis, 18 March 2014 - 08:01 PM.

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#13 Arbalist

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 11:08 PM

The future of RO2 needs skill tree expansion and diversity in my opinion. With 30 Master Levels to go, all classes are going to end up maxing all their essential skills anyways (and doubling point totals is just lazy). I don't think a class should be able to do everything the class has because as we both know, our classes are so strongly cookie-cutter and everyone ends up having the same build which means boring and predictable.

 

When you ask me what a monk might look like, I feel that they should emulate RO1 monks as much as possible. Nostalgia and familiarity is one major draw for new players and capitalizing on that is necessary. RO2 tried to break new ground, and failed, so bring back RO1 models is ideal in my opinion. RO1's system allowed players to create unique builds using both stats and skills, but we're stuck with only skills to create that distinctiveness. That's fine. With that said, I feel there should be a minimum of three builds to take (and don't be surprised if these ideas are familiar, I'm sure they are not original at all).

 

1) Spirit Spheres focus

My memory is rusty, but I Googled the RO1 monk skills and recalled for a brief period that I played a Throw Spirit Sphere (TSS) monk. Spirit Spheres in RO1 was also linked to SP, and as we know SP issues are a big deal in post-AOV. This presents itself as a niche for monks to play in. Ideally, this will be a ranged-dps/mage build that focuses on TSS (Hadoukens) as the main attack. Ranged attacks help to ease the acolyte -> monk transitions for those who were expecting to play a ranged class. Spirit spheres could be used in several ways, such as increasing attack power, restoring party SP (group utility anyone?), draining enemy SP (imagine the PVP possibilities) and if we must follow the previous RO2 effect, act as a debuff. Int and Wis should be the focus of this stat distribution.

 

 

2) Combo Monk

This will be the melee DPS build. Throwing out a sequence of skills that will finish with different debuffs/effects. For example, using ABCD will give you a stun effect at the end, CDCD converts damage into a DoT.  So many ways this can go. Guillotine Fist will be locked in the upper tiers of this tree and be an actual finisher that can finish things, a 1HKO on a cooldown. Agi and Str will be the focus of stat distribution.

 

3) Tank focus

For those who want to continue playing their RO2 tanks, this is just consolidating the right tools into the same build. The standard tank tools are here: Def/HP buffs, increased threat passives/actives, taunts, a turtle skill, and optional AoEs. Honestly, getting a chance to play all tank classes, tanking in RO2 is not a crazy challenge, so skill expansion is uncertain for me. I would say that monks should have an AoE that inflicts a DoT on all things hit, because I don't recall any other tank having AoE dots (uniqueness?). This tree would be roughly half the size as the other trees, allowing the tank to pick up half the skills from either of the other two trees. Vit and either Str/Int can be the focus of this build.

3 distinct builds can bring relevance back to armor diversity as well (remember tank gears? Yeah, they existed before this AOV nonsense). All stats can play a vital role in different builds, just in case stat builds actually becomes a thing in the future.

(I'll go back to my bear cave now Ves, I can't think of any radical skill changes for BMs so far)


Edited by Arbalist, 18 March 2014 - 11:22 PM.

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#14 Chocs

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:34 PM

I like Arbalist's suggestions... The first time I saw Throw Spirit Sphere in RO2 was underwhelming... Making it into a proper cast ranged attack sounds cool (and could make use of the odd cast speed stat Monks have).

 

You could probably convert Iron Skin into a DPS toggle and throw that 50% DEF to Steel Body. Iron Skin was called "Iron Palm" before official localisations came out so that actually doesn't sound too bad-

 

The thing with giving a new DPS toggle is to decide what it does in conjunction with Fury. Consider that:

Spoiler

I'd suggest giving the new DPS toggle +30% AP and replacing Fury's effect with +Crit rate like it does in RO1. You could also do a thing when using the DPS toggle will cause Guillotine Fist to have 100% accuracy.

 

Something else I'd like to see on Monks is the ability to chase. They are the lightest armoured melee class so a pure DPS Monk would be really squishy. Like improving Lightning Walk, making it more spammable (5s CD?) but the Knock-down effect only works when cast from a certain distance (10-20m?); below that distance will cause a movement slow debuff (3s?) like being numbed after getting zapped.

 

As for AoE and support... I don't personally think Monks need something special there if their single target DPS becomes really good. If anything, making Lightning Crush into a high damage AoE that has higher CD and uses SS is one other way of being different (everyone else spams their AoE, but Monks doing it less often with much higher damage spikes).


Edited by Chocs, 26 March 2014 - 09:38 PM.

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#15 Meconopsis

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 11:56 AM

I like all the suggestions but because of how the skill tree works, it would never work without a massive overhaul. Now if classes had something like talent trees where the same class can specialize in different roles but have a core that makes them their class then fancy options would be feasible.

So as much as I would want the monk class to have options, it would have to take a quite a bit to expand upon the system we have now. As it is, even future class advancements will be difficult to implement without a drastic new system.
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#16 Akin

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:19 PM

The more I play monk, the more I respect his threat in battle, but,

Character Name: Akin

 

My practical suggestion:

Suggestion Type: Heavy Tackle (Skill)

Suggestion Description: Go back to the 2 adjacent enemy splash, at least when Steel Body is off.

 

My crazy suggestion:

Suggestion Type: Skills

Suggestion Description:

  1. Increase the number of spheres to 5 (show them floating around your body!).
  2. Rename Raging Blow to Raging Trifecta Blow (change animation accordingly, still generates 1 sphere).
  3. Rename Crushing Blow to Raging Quadruple Blow (still generates 2 spheres, remove the DoT and change animation accordingly, let it chain to the F key and have 0 cooldown if used after trifecta blow).
  4. Rename Lightning Crush to Raging Thrust (remove the jump aspect of the animation, require 1 sphere, let it chain to the F key and have 0 cooldown if used after quadruple blow, let it damage +1 enemy per level).
  5. Rename Heavy Tackle to Occult Impaction (give it a better version of the DoT from Crushing Blow, have it consume remaining spheres and do damage accordingly).
  6. Rename Intimidation to Howling Lion (make it an AoE).
  7. Spiritual Cadence (remove damage increase from INT, let it reset cooldowns and give a heal over time, if used in steel body state, give Protection Ki buff, cooldown can be 120 seconds).
  8. Rename Evasion to Flee (make it passive).
  9. Iron Skin (no change).
  10. Summon Spirit Sphere (remove cooldown effect, lower cooldown 10 seconds, let it cost 200 SP, give it the 5 extra ML levels from TSS, each level generates 1 sphere).
  11. Lightning Walk (remove stun effect, instead of generating a sphere, it will cost 1 sphere, lower cooldown to 5 - skill level seconds).
  12. Fury Explosion (let it only work when not in steel body).
  13. Replace Protection Ki with either Cursed Circle, Windmill, Rampage Blaster or Earth Shaker (I prefer Windmill or Earth Shaker).
  14. Steel Body (cannot cast Fury or use Ranging Thrust/TSS when in this state, each sphere generates 20% more threat).
  15. Throw Spirit Sphere (lower cooldown to 5 - skill level seconds, remove damage debuff, consumes remaining spheres, increase damage based on spheres used, remove 5 extra levels from ML).
  16. Guillotine Fist (require 5 spheres, 4 if used after Raging Thrust).

 

This is basically bringing the RO1 monk to RO2. I'm sure some people are against it and I don't expect it. I just think it would make playing monk more fun.


Edited by Akin, 02 May 2014 - 10:41 PM.

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#17 Kayther

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Posted 24 April 2014 - 09:34 PM

i like the idea of bringin back ro 1 into ro2  at least the stats input ther, actually Do something. And you have  a lot more freedom in ro 1 on how your character role is builded,  rly was it difficul to just use the formulas used in ro1


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#18 Greven79

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Posted 25 April 2014 - 02:17 AM

My practical suggestion:

Suggestion Type: Heavy Tackle (Skill)

Suggestion Description: Go back to the 2 adjacent enemy splash, at least when Steel Body is off.

 

My crazy suggestion:

Suggestion Type: Skills

Suggestion Description:

  1. Increase the number of spheres to 5 (show them floating around your body!).
  2. Rename Raging Blow to Raging Trifecta Blow (change animation accordingly, still generates 1 sphere).
  3. Rename Crushing Blow to Raging Quadruple Blow (still generates 2 spheres, remove the DoT and change animation accordingly, let it chain to the F key and have 0 cooldown if used after trifecta blow).
  4. Rename Lightning Crush to Raging Thrust (remove the jump aspect of the animation, require 1 sphere, let it chain to the F key and have 0 cooldown if used after quadruple blow, let it damage +1 enemy per level).
  5. Rename Heavy Tackle to Occult Impaction (give it a better version of the DoT from Crushing Blow, have it consume remaining spheres and do damage accordingly).
  6. Rename Intimidation to Howling Lion (make it an AoE).
  7. Spiritual Cadence (remove damage increase from INT, let it reset cooldowns and give a heal over time, if used in steel body state, give Protection Ki buff, cooldown can be 120 seconds).
  8. Rename Evasion to Flee (make it passive).
  9. Iron Skin (no change).
  10. Summon Spirit Sphere (remove cooldown effect, lower cooldown 10 seconds, let it cost 200 SP, give it the 5 extra ML levels from TSS, each level generates 1 sphere).
  11. Lightning Walk (instead of generating a sphere, it will cost 1 sphere, lower cooldown to 5 - skill level seconds).
  12. Fury Explosion (let it only work when not in steel body).
  13. Replace Protection Ki with either Cursed Circle, Windmill, Rampage Blaster or Earth Shaker (I prefer Windmill or Earth Shaker).
  14. Steel Body (cannot cast Fury or use Ranging Thrust/TSS when in this state, each sphere generates 20% more threat).
  15. Throw Spirit Sphere (lower cooldown to 5 - skill level seconds, remove damage debuff, consumes remaining spheres, increase damage based on spheres used, remove 5 extra levels from ML).
  16. Guillotine Fist (require 5 spheres, 4 if used after Raging Thrust).

 

I highlighted the suggestions or parts of them that I would agree on.

 

When you start as an Acolyte, you gather your gear from Izlude Cave and then turn into a monk, your gear would still be pure INT-based. So sure, let's realize idea 7 and remove the INT bonus.

Suddenly, the newly konk would have zero STR and I bet a lot of fun to play this game.

 

Just some trolling:

Spoiler

 

Idea 11 is also quite nice. Let's have a Teleportation skill with stun effect and reduce the cooldown to 5-level. It requires a sphere, so let's just switch back and fourth to raging blow or simply use idea 10, to get 1 sphere per skill level every 10-Vigor seconds.

 

About Lightning Crush:

Usually the only discussions I had about this skill was whether or not it's inferior to Brandish Storm. And it usually resulted in the question whether you prefer a 3-Vigor sec cooldown for this skill or the 2~3sec animation time of Brandish Storm. Your idea is interesting, because thanks to the sphere requirement, you wouldn't be able to cast this skill multiple times in succession... like all the other classes do. Instead,you would use Crushing Blow to get a sphere, which requires Raging Blow to eliminate the cooldown. In total.it would look like:

 

Raging Blow

Crushing Blow => no cooldown so the monk would be the fastest in build-Up marker generation

Lightning Crush => no cooldown, but that doesn't really matter, because it's replaced by a skill cast requirement

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#19 Akin

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 10:40 PM

I didn't see any highlighted parts in your quote of my post. And sorry, but I also can't tell how serious you are or if you're just being sarcastic.

 

Thanks for bringing up the stun effect from Lightning Walk though. I forgot about that and that should be removed in my list of suggestions.

 

As for stats, I would expect all INT from Monk gear would be replaced with STR and that Acolytes, leveling to become Monks, would focus on that stat, even if it makes it harder to level as an Acolyte. That's exactly what happens in RO1. That, or a free stat reset for Monks.

 

Your conclusion about how Lightning Crush would work is spot on and deliberate. That combo chain is basically how it worked for Monks in RO1 and what I was going for in the first place.


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#20 Chocs

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 02:45 AM

A debuff cancel skill would be pretty cool for Monks, being part of the Acolyte tree and all. But their current passive VIT def is making it hard to justify that..

 

That, or a free stat reset for Monks.

...Doesn't every class change have a free stat and skill reset or did that change?


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#21 Akin

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Posted 03 May 2014 - 09:09 AM

It's definitely a free skill reset. I haven't noticed a stat reset since being back.


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#22 Greven79

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Posted 07 May 2014 - 04:54 AM

I didn't see any highlighted parts in your quote of my post. And sorry, but I also can't tell how serious you are or if you're just being sarcastic.

 

Thanks for bringing up the stun effect from Lightning Walk though. I forgot about that and that should be removed in my list of suggestions.

 

As for stats, I would expect all INT from Monk gear would be replaced with STR and that Acolytes, leveling to become Monks, would focus on that stat, even if it makes it harder to level as an Acolyte. That's exactly what happens in RO1. That, or a free stat reset for Monks.

 

Your conclusion about how Lightning Crush would work is spot on and deliberate. That combo chain is basically how it worked for Monks in RO1 and what I was going for in the first place.

 

I highlighted the parts in green.... and yes, it weren't many. It's also true that most of my reply was sarcastic. At that time, I was quite a bit enervated by other things.

 

If you design a character or class, you have two coices: combo-centric or versatile. You usually can't have both. Your suggestions are highly combo-centric, whereas many others usually criticize that the monk doesn't have distinct skill-builds to choose from. Personally, if there is a need for any combinations, I would prefer more subtile ones. That means nothing of the type: "Only if you use skill ABC first, skill XYZ is of any use". Resetting the cooldown of one skill by using another is nothing I'd enjoy.
 

I've already mentioned the best way, where you can see that - the AoE skill:

All the classes do have an AoE skill that can be used without any prerequisites. Some of them have a certain animation time, others do have a cooldown instead, but both ways are meant to keep the dps output in check. IMO, adding skill requirements doesn't create any real ingame advantage, but requires a player to level multiple different skills to get a situational bonus. And yes, being able to attack up to 10 enemies ought to be situational.

 

However, the same is true for other skill suggestions as well. All versions that generate more than one build-up point (Bowling Bash, Shield Bash, Wild Crush, Shadow Strike or Illusion Blade) do have a certain cooldown as well. In that way, these skill aren't strictly superior, but a rather 'special' and far away from being mandatory... and I would like it to stay that way. Sure, the monk can already reduce the cooldown of Crushing Blow if maxed out (level 10) and that makes it quite redundant to your idea, but that's very wasteful. You'd have to spend 10 extra skill points for Crushing Blow in addition to a typically maxed out Raging Blow to get that benefit, but you lose some dps as well.

 

The only real thing that I do agree on is that Throw Spirit Spheres ought to require and use up build-up points, rather than generating one. Beside the obvious reason based on the skill name, it would keep the monk more a melee class. That means that unless he 'summons' some spirit spheres, he'd have to perform melee attacks first. That skill could then be used against fleeing opponents And due to the simple fact that consuming build-up points allows for a higher skill damage, a monk would have quite a nice-&-tricky 'kamehameha'-like finisher (secondary ultimate similar to Aura Strike).

 

Last but not least:

Although I've already mentioned the difficulties of a monk losing Spiritual Cadence (full INT on all acolyte gear), it seems that the developers have already loosened the sterm correlation between STR bonuses and those based on INT. That's why I wouldn't be surprised, if they plan to remove Spiritual Cadence in a future patch.

 

Although stat boni could compensate for or totally replace the skill benefit (same for the Crecentia), I want to point out that a skill - even if it looks like a waste of points - was and is still the more obvious choice to implement such a special. And I will always prefer that way over 'sneaky' stat bonuses. Spiritual Cadence wasn't even that bad, if you consider that a Warrior has to take at least one point in Rage Control, just to replace auras with rage points. The additional 10% extra rage points are similar to the monk's extra ATK via titles, cards or costumes.

 

So all in all, I'd like to see a more versatile monk class, instead of a class that depends on skill-chains.


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#23 Akin

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Posted 09 May 2014 - 08:31 PM

Fair enough. Like I said, it was my crazy suggestion. I prefer combo monks.

 

All I really want is the splash damage back on Heavy Tackle. Just as a benefit for PvE.


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#24 4458130508113924833

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Posted 11 May 2014 - 10:42 PM

Suggestion Type: Skill
Suggestion Description: Make Spiritual Cadence passive work like Battle Tactics and increase critical damage, but since it only has one level, and it's way easier for Monks to stack INT, it should only add .1% damage per INT instead of the .4% that Battle Tactics adds.


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#25 Greven79

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Posted 13 May 2014 - 08:28 AM

Suggestion Type: Skill
Suggestion Description: Make Spiritual Cadence passive work like Battle Tactics and increase critical damage, but since it only has one level, and it's way easier for Monks to stack INT, it should only add .1% damage per INT instead of the .4% that Battle Tactics adds.

 

As I've mentioned before, the skill was once necessary and wisely chosen. Before you actually become a monk, your acolyte wears gear that is purely based on INT. That means that without spiritual cadence, your newly appointed monk would have lost almost any attack power.

 

Rather than implementing 'sneaky' stat changes / bonuses, the "old" devs implemented this skill to make the monk class unique and balanced.I doubt that most players would have noticed the altered stat benefits. So that requires the player to inform themself about the resulting monk stat bonuses right at the start of the game. Spiritual Cadence was also far away from being a useless skill, because many titles, cards, costumes, buffs, etc. give a bonus to both stats, resulting in a higher total. If I'd had to choose whether the Warrior Rage Control (that only produces a lame 10% boost for rage points), the Thief's Combo Training OR Spiritual Cadence is the most undefining skill, it wouldn't have been the monk's one.

 

Exchanging this skill for another Battle Tactics variant isn't a wise option either. Sure, once the monks have decided what they want to be good at or what they want to add to the team (crit, vigor, speed, defense, dodge), it would be possible to implement it. But even if it turns out to be crit. damage, I wouldn't want to get a skill that's purely based on a stat, no matter if it's INT or WIS. I'd prefer a skill that adds a known benefit no matter what stat-build you choose and that stays balanced, despite all the honing bonuses, etc.


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