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New Powers, New Friends, More Glory! March 13th Patch Notes v496


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#51 Soda

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 04:42 AM

I'm not trying to make it sound so personal. And I'm sorry as well if you think I'm turning this into an argument. Its just that both of our opinions are already clashing and I don't think that you're "wrong". Maybe to some extent i disagree with you but you have a point as well. It just "erks" me that some already have that conclusion that mage will become OP this update. When in fact not every mage in game have tested it properly in CD.


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#52 jacobpalmer

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:06 AM

I have tried my very best to refrain from commenting on this, but it has to be said.

 

Testing katar raiders on pegasus and they are too powerful imo, once they "spool up" (10 seconds max) they become unbelievably strong, so who was it that decided the critical damage and aspeed boost needed to be doubled from the test server?

 

Whoever is making these decisions appears to be picking numbers from a hat and deciding that it is a good idea.


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#53 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:14 AM

Asked this question before, but it didn't get answered. With the bourg buffs being made stackable, how will the combined bourg buffs (dual rigging, layer step, etc.) work?


Edited by jerremy, 12 March 2014 - 05:14 AM.

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#54 jacobpalmer

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:16 AM

Asked this question before, but it didn't get answered. With the bourg buffs being made stackable, how will the combined bourg buffs (dual rigging, layer step, etc.) work?

 

They will work like evasive guard does, it becomes effectively a passive, it appears in the top right with a timer, rather than under your health.


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#55 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:17 AM

They will work like evasive guard does, it becomes effectively a passive, it appears in the top right with a timer, rather than under your health.

I am aware of that, I'm just confused about the unique skills that combine the both into one. If there's anything planned for those, or if they'll just stay the same as they did before.


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#56 Feuer

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:41 AM

I'd like to touch on a few points

 

Dispells: Are most likely going to stay in-game. There needs to be counters to buffs. Status downs hardly cut it at all, as as of the moment, there's only 1 new counter to healing spells, which is then countered again by "cure". Everything should have an equal and opposite force. That's the true definition of balance. Bufs can me gained, and in turn should be able to be taken away. A note though, is that buffs can & are already applied much much faster then they could ever be taken off a target.

 

Berserk: I'm sensing the appropriate action would be more similar to sleep + rested buff. Innitially, the champ should receive full immunity, but after each stun / sleep is passified, the resistance should go down. Say upon entering berserk, 100% immunity, upon first attempted stun/sleep it is fully resisted. The next attempt success would be cut by 75%, then 50% then 25% then the benefit of berserk's immunity is gone. Similar to how Cloaking uses charges, and sleeping an eney -once the update is live- applied the rested benefit. 

 

PvP vs Wars:

While I mostly agree that being good in a "war" scenario is important, it's not always the case. Wars are not the only feature of the game. While many at higher levels do focus on it, there are several dungeon clans and groups that like to PvM, and Farm. Group playstyle + solo play styles should be equally functional. For all classes.

1v1 Targeting + Skills are essential for King Farming, King Killing in Dungeons, as well as for those awkward moments in Wars + PvP matches where you and an enemy are broken off from your groups.

Mass vs Mass is important for Mob leveling, Clearing Dungeon Rooms and Operating in Team PVP matches. 

There shouldn't be any favoritism on how classes are developed and balanced due to only 1 group of individuals opinion and preferred play styles.

 

As for the update itself, I can't wait to see what the community does with it. I can already tell Dodge Boosters + Evasive guard giving 150% dodge bonus is going to be funny to watch. That and Berserk + Damage booster giving 110%+ Additional Damage will be hilarious if they get ahold of a squishy class. 


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#57 GerreMas

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:50 AM

Then you find the recent ones? Even on Class Discussion you seem to ask questions which are redundant ._. Again I'm sorry if I'm being rude. Guess simple things like that seem to annoy me :p_swt:


Its funny that you know that you are being rude and apologise for it ,
If i remember correctly i didn't ask specificly that 'you' needed to answer this question.
But maybe it was just to hard to ressist commenting on the topic becouse it 'annoyed' u to much ,

So in that case im giving u my apologies for annoying u.

I must say that i am someone who wants to help people and support them,... No mather how much the question has been asked before...
(In some jobs it happens am the time... )

So i do appriciate people like pdfisher who actually are kind and are willing to reply in the topic to help someone.

This is just how i see things ^^
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#58 Ahya

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 05:54 AM

Since katar raiders are 10 times better on pegasus then I'll just base off my experience from there. I'm not saying I'm the best mage or whatever but even with my "CD build" , meaning I'm more on aoes and less on single target skills. No pvp mana burn and staff stun were used and I haven't lost a single PVP (again I'm just referring to katar raiders). I'm not sure if we have the same "rules" in leonis and in draconis server but here in leonis we don't use Debuffs on pvp.

 

As for wars, I consider these skills, def down/dodge down/m-spd down/mdef down to "soften up" the target. Debuffing them is much more than just "softening" them up. You're completely disabling your enemy to have the chance to even fight back/escape (specially when ap/add damage/def and m-spd is debuffed). Debuff is like a sure win skill in PVPs.

 

Perhaps, in the near future, a cross in the road of Leonis and Draconis would help us clear our viewpoints and share a common insight. After all, you do not know the raiders I've been dealing with, and in the same breath do I not know the raiders you've always beaten. I'm not saying you're fighting crappy raiders or that I'm fighting better raiders. We don't use debuffs on pvp, but I don't fight PVPs where one skill of mine is restricted, nor a PVP where anything at all is. It's just so unrealistically decieving. I always start fights with raiders with them stealthed, to allow them to properly utilize their ability to ambush.

 

Well, I'm lazy to extend all this. You're your mage and I'm my mage, and we got our own fighting styles and philosophies. :p_angel:


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#59 Feuer

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:05 AM

Ahya knows my mage's fighting style, very different from many others, but still effective in it's own right. And yes, It does use dispells. Because it's already in melee range, why restrict myself from using it. Like telling champ not to use berserk, raider not to use cloak, cleric not to use healing, or artisan not to use... bullets. It's just a class feature, if it annoys you, it's probly because it's good. and gives you a challenge

 


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#60 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:20 AM

I see nothing wrong with the dispell skill itself, it's just that currently buffs are such a defining factor in both PvP and PvM that being able to take them away is really obnoxious.


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#61 pdfisher

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:32 AM

Patch Notes v496

 

Game Arena
Several enhancements have been made to adjust how points are tracked and counted towards contribution to your team. More Honor Point are expected to be earned per match overall, those who participate will see better compensation for their efforts in the end.

  • Added a "Vote Kick Member" function to group management interface while inside Game Arena game instances.

 

I have a question regarding this. How exactly will it work? What if it ends up in a tie? Will each character get a vote, or each person?


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#62 Soda

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 06:50 AM

Its funny that you know that you are being rude and apologise for it ,
If i remember correctly i didn't ask specificly that 'you' needed to answer this question.
But maybe it was just to hard to ressist commenting on the topic becouse it 'annoyed' u to much ,

So in that case im giving u my apologies for annoying u.

I must say that i am someone who wants to help people and support them,... No mather how much the question has been asked before...
(In some jobs it happens am the time... )

So i do appriciate people like pdfisher who actually are kind and are willing to reply in the topic to help someone.

This is just how i see things ^^

I'm apologizing cause maybe i'm too straight forward with my comment. And i love helping others out, there's nothing bad about it. But there's a difference between helping and spoon feeding. Just saying.

 

Perhaps, in the near future, a cross in the road of Leonis and Draconis would help us clear our viewpoints and share a common insight. After all, you do not know the raiders I've been dealing with, and in the same breath do I not know the raiders you've always beaten. I'm not saying you're fighting crappy raiders or that I'm fighting better raiders. We don't use debuffs on pvp, but I don't fight PVPs where one skill of mine is restricted, nor a PVP where anything at all is. It's just so unrealistically decieving. I always start fights with raiders with them stealthed, to allow them to properly utilize their ability to ambush.

 

Well, I'm lazy to extend all this. You're your mage and I'm my mage, and we got our own fighting styles and philosophies. :p_angel:

Just from how you and Feuer view "dispell", its quite obvious thats its really different from leonis and draconis. And yes, we each have our own opinion, we probably have different playing style and gears that's why we both look at mage very differently.


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#63 SlowBob

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:06 AM

I see nothing wrong with the dispell skill itself, it's just that currently buffs are such a defining factor in both PvP and PvM that being able to take them away is really obnoxious.

 

agree, buffs are currently just a way too overpowered, that's why the ability to dispell them just hits too hard. If you are getting dispelled in a war, the war is over for you and this shouldn't happen...


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#64 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:09 AM

agree, buffs are currently just a way too overpowered, that's why the ability to dispell them just hits too hard. If you are getting dispelled in a war, the war is over for you and this shouldn't happen...

There's a few buffs you can live without, but if aspd/mspd gets taken out (as someone who uses basic attacks at least), it's game over.


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#65 ChampPower

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:24 AM

Let's have a small prediction. I say most people will use raider in war. They are incredible fast and have over-the-head critical rate. Other classes cannot even catch them, much less killing them. Let's not forget about status effect, especially stack. finally, they can cloak and stealth. I can sum up in one comment, "Raider can drop anyone they wish to be drop, in a relatively short period of time too."
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#66 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:25 AM

If wars are going to stay the AoE seas that they are right now, raiders will still die a miserable death by all the berserk champ and mage AoE's. They got 1v1 damage sure, but group combat is just slightly more than being able to do single target damage.


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#67 ChickenBucket

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:29 AM

Let's have a small prediction. I say most people will use raider in war. They are incredible fast and have over-the-head critical rate. Other classes cannot even catch them, much less killing them. Let's not forget about status effect, especially stack. finally, they can cloak and stealth. I can sum up in one comment, "Raider can drop anyone they wish to be drop, in a relatively short period of time too."

 

lol like back when attackspeed was everything? and in wars it was like 9000 raiders cloaked.


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#68 SpawN9999

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:38 AM

If wars are going to stay the AoE seas that they are right now, raiders will still die a miserable death by all the berserk champ and mage AoE's. They got 1v1 damage sure, but group combat is just slightly more than being able to do single target damage.

 

berserked champs..maybe but mages will get sliced and diced after this update in wars. 2 good raiders on em, forget it. The way they effect healing will lessen the aoe time to an extent aswell ~in theory~

 

lets see how it plays out . im keeping an eye on champs though


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#69 ChampPower

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:42 AM

If wars are going to stay the AoE seas that they are right now, raiders will still die a miserable death by all the berserk champ and mage AoE's. They got 1v1 damage sure, but group combat is just slightly more than being able to do single target damage.

If I was a raider, I can get around the sea of AoE (as you have called) with little effort. Using cloak, I will aim at the cleric first. Before anyone can do anything, with the new found power of the raider and a weaker def of cleric after the update, let's not forget multiple raider will be joining the raid, all the clerics on the opposite side will be dead in instant. When the clerics are no longer around, and the cool down of cloak is over, it will be time to kill the rest of your opponent team. Sea of AoE will have no effect if you cannot see or catch the raider. It is that simple.
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#70 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:44 AM

Not sure how it is for Leonis people, but when both teams have 4 clerics (happens quite a lot in the CD's I'm in), I say good luck trying to kill the clerics with little effort. Not to mention clerics usually hide near the AoEing champs.

 

 

I do somewhat get your point though, raiders have quite a lot of single target damage. But no, I doubt you'll see only katar raiders.


Edited by jerremy, 12 March 2014 - 07:50 AM.

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#71 ChampPower

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 07:58 AM

Not sure how it is for Leonis people, but when both teams have 4 clerics (happens quite a lot in the CD's I'm in), I say good luck trying to kill the clerics with little effort. Not to mention clerics usually hide near the AoEing champs.


I am not even sure how you play your raider. 4 cleric or staying right next to the AoE classes or hide inside the crystal will not be a big concern when you have ton of time to pick on the target with cloak, when you can out run people with the increasing movement speed, when you have multiple raiders on your side who can focus with you on one target or attack all 4 clerics at the same time with stun and mute, and when you can drop the cleric with massive critical and attack speed.

Edited by ChampPower, 12 March 2014 - 07:59 AM.

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#72 jerremy

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:02 AM

The point you seem to be making is 'multiple raiders'. Yes, multiple attackers at once is hard to deal with. Be it five raiders, five champions, five mages, five battle clerics, five battle artisans, five scouts, five bourgs, ...

Why would you specifically point out raiders only?


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#73 ChampPower

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 08:08 AM

Because the raider is too over power, and they cannot be killed. I can think up several strategy to kill 5 champs, 5 bourgeois, or 5 Mages, but I cannot do the same thing wither raider after the update. You would not be able to catch them, much less killing them, because you would have to catch them before killing them. If you have a strategy to deal with the raiders after the update, please share it.
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#74 ShazamO

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:01 AM

More details about the latest patch have been added. :ok:


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#75 LexLoyalty

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Posted 12 March 2014 - 09:31 AM

Because the raider is too over power, and they cannot be killed. I can think up several strategy to kill 5 champs, 5 bourgeois, or 5 Mages, but I cannot do the same thing wither raider after the update. You would not be able to catch them, much less killing them, because you would have to catch them before killing them. If you have a strategy to deal with the raiders after the update, please share it.

 

False. Raiders are not over powered at all. The thing is that champs berserk was overpowered earlier so it made champs own every class in 3 hits. Also raiders are meant to be faster runners than champs by nature so its normal that you cant catch a raider. If you want to catch one use the appropriate gear 


Edited by LexLoyalty, 12 March 2014 - 09:32 AM.

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