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#1 aikokun

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 09:13 PM

Can you make these purchasable? The requirements to create them and the amount you receive is just silly. Or at least why not change the ingredients to use the Ninja orbs instead (like Kunai)?

 

The high cost of spheres makes an already underwhelming weapon choice into one that's just not worth it at all. :(


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#2 aikokun

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:04 PM

Isn't this a general suggestions forum? Gunslinger has been out on Chaos for quite a while.


Edited by aikokun, 23 March 2014 - 10:06 PM.

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#3 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 10:48 PM

You can buy Phracon and Emveretarcon in Prontera. Cyfar, Brigan, Venom Canine, and Squid Ink are very easy to get. Most people just don't loot this kind of 'junk'. Those for 30 spheres are easy and cheap, in my opinion.


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#4 aikokun

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 11:41 PM

1200z plus time hunting items for a measly 30 spheres isn't cheap. Those spheres go by so fast. :(


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#5 ilovemilk

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 11:42 AM

That's nothing compared to Ninja's Rapid Throw. 100K per use and they still want it nerf.


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#6 spikexp

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 03:24 PM

That's nothing compared to Ninja's Rapid Throw. 100K per use and they still want it nerf.


100k only worth a pocket money. Or so I've heard from some Chasers.
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#7 Facekiller

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 03:45 PM

That's nothing compared to Ninja's Rapid Throw. 100K per use and they still want it nerf.

 

i personally want this skill removed completely (id settle for a decent nerf) and i play Kagerou class exclusively...
 


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#8 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:17 PM

The amount received for items used to craft are just fine, however, with Flare Spheres specifically, Gunslingers aren't really capable of farming the items necessary to make them, as Slingers still have the old 99 cap.

 

Nothing under Lv80 drops Burning Hearts, and unless you want to go out of your way to farm at Brasilis, you'll have to enter Nogg Road, which is a DEATH WISH for a class burdened with such high SP consumption and a low SP/HP pool.

 

For a bit of perspective though, just remember that Archer classes also need materials such as these for their elemental/status Arrow Crafting. NPC arrow sales are exactly the same as NPC bullet sales.

 

At least Archers can make Fire Arrows with Red Bloods  :p_smile:


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#9 aikokun

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:05 PM

Flare Spheres were definitely a big reason why I decided to make this thread.

 

When you look at the cost and availability of arrows and compare them with the bullets and spheres there's a clear difference.

 

Comparing similar ammunition:

Normal bullets cost the same as arrows, but they have less atk (10 vs 25) and weigh twice as much (0.2 vs 0.1).

Silver bullets have half the attack of silver arrows (15 vs 30), but cost five times as much (15z vs 3z). 

 

As far as spheres go, if I were to buy the ingredients for spheres from merchants I'd end up with this:

Flare Sphere: 1200z + 2*1000z = 107z/sphere
Lightning Sphere: 1200z + 3*450z = 85z/sphere
Freezing Sphere: 1200z + 2*2000z = 174z/sphere
Poison Sphere: 1200z + 10*450z  = 190z/sphere
Blind Sphere: 1200z + 5*700z  = 157z/sphere
 
and not all of the ingredients are even up for sale.
 
 
I understand that there are skills that cost more, but it's almost always worth it for the amount of damage or utility those skills provide. To compare Gunslinger Mine to a skill similar in use, Throw Kunai,  the highest costing kunai is 40z/ea and the ingredients are all buyable, and Gunslinger Mine costs 40sp (10sp for Throw Kunai) for less damage. I just wish the spheres were a little more cost-efficient. :(
 
Hopefully kRO decides to do something with Rebellion and add in bullet crafting or something similar.

Edited by aikokun, 24 March 2014 - 06:06 PM.

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#10 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:01 PM

I wonder if I could buy all cooking ingredients from an NPC. Cooking is hard and the effect isn't so great (around +5 stat bonus for 20 minutes), but hey, hunting for ingredients is part of the fun.

 

Seriously, just hunt for those items. It's not hard. Those items aren't even rare.


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#11 aikokun

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 08:06 PM

I wonder if I could buy all cooking ingredients from an NPC. Cooking is hard and the effect isn't so great (around +5 stat bonus for 20 minutes), but hey, hunting for ingredients is part of the fun.

 

Seriously, just hunt for those items. It's not hard. Those items aren't even rare.

 

Cooking was pretty great when individual stat points and reaching a bonus mattered, like pre-renewal. Now, not so much, especially with VIP bonuses and +20 foods.

 

Are you seriously comparing a bonus stat food to an ammunition needed to use a weapon type?


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#12 spikexp

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:18 PM

Foods =/= ammo.

Never tried using spheres myself, expensive in so many ways. But then again, if it doesn't worth the damage/cost, it should be made cheaper.

Or hit the low TI, they got headless mules around.
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#13 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:14 PM

Cooking was pretty great when individual stat points and reaching a bonus mattered, like pre-renewal. Now, not so much, especially with VIP bonuses and +20 foods.

 

Are you seriously comparing a bonus stat food to an ammunition needed to use a weapon type?

 

Yes, I'm serious. Both are privilege. Cooking can make you stronger, even though just a bit for a very limited time and incredible cost. Grenade Launcher is a very powerful weapon, with elements. Look at that damage, and it has a chance to break armor too. Making the spheres unsold by NPC is a way to balance them. The thing is, both Cooking and Grenade Launcher aren't necessity. You can avoid using them without any problem if you're too lazy to make them.

 

Kunai doesn't deal much damage because of the nerf, and it's costly. That's why it's considered as a fun build, because only people who are willing to struggle for fun will use it. Cooking is almost nothing but a way to waste money because the buff and success rate aren't worth it, so only people who are willing to struggle for fun will do it.

 

The only problem here is that you don't want to hunt a bit to have extra fun. Those items are really easy to get, seriously (except the Burning Hearts). Not to mention that hunting for items is also fun.

 

Never tried using spheres myself, expensive in so many ways. But then again, if it doesn't worth the damage/cost, it should be made cheaper.

 

Same with cooking.


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#14 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:27 PM

Yes, I'm serious. Both are privilege. Cooking can make you stronger, even though just a bit for a very limited time and incredible cost. Grenade Launcher is a very powerful weapon, with elements. Look at that damage, and it has a chance to break armor too. Making the spheres unsold by NPC is a way to balance them. The thing is, both Cooking and Grenade Launcher aren't necessity. You can avoid using them without any problem if you're too lazy to make them.

 

Kunai doesn't deal much damage because of the nerf, and it's costly. That's why it's considered as a fun build, because only people who are willing to struggle for fun will use it. Cooking is almost nothing but a way to waste money because the buff and success rate aren't worth it, so only people who are willing to struggle for fun will do it.

 

The only problem here is that you don't want to hunt a bit to have extra fun. Those items are really easy to get, seriously (except the Burning Hearts). Not to mention that hunting for items is also fun.

 

 

Same with cooking.

 

Spheres do less damage than Kunai, cost more to manufacture, and have a lower attack rate. Furthermore, of the two direct offensive skills to make use of Grenade Launchers, one requires a catalyst in the form of a coin (imagine losing a charm whenever you used Throw Kunai, and your charms only had a 50% chance of even working), and the other is prohibitively expensive at 60SP per cast.

 

As with Gatling, Launchers seriously need an update/rework, or the ammunition needs to be made more readily available.

 

Honestly, I think this is the proposal submission process for RO nowdays:

 

R9QwV3h.gif


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#15 aikokun

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:58 PM

Yes, I'm serious. Both are privilege. Cooking can make you stronger, even though just a bit for a very limited time and incredible cost. Grenade Launcher is a very powerful weapon, with elements. Look at that damage, and it has a chance to break armor too. Making the spheres unsold by NPC is a way to balance them. The thing is, both Cooking and Grenade Launcher aren't necessity. You can avoid using them without any problem if you're too lazy to make them.

 

Kunai doesn't deal much damage because of the nerf, and it's costly. That's why it's considered as a fun build, because only people who are willing to struggle for fun will use it. Cooking is almost nothing but a way to waste money because the buff and success rate aren't worth it, so only people who are willing to struggle for fun will do it.

 

The only problem here is that you don't want to hunt a bit to have extra fun. Those items are really easy to get, seriously (except the Burning Hearts). Not to mention that hunting for items is also fun.

 

 

Same with cooking.

 

Using grenade launchers is not a privilege. That's like arguing using bows as a Rogue is a privilege. Grenade Launcher may do more damage per basic attack, but combined with the lack of skills and the INCREDIBLY slow aspd you do way more dps with any other gun.

 

And I'm talking about post-nerf Throw Kunai. It's definitely not that costly, it does way more damage than Gunslinger Mine (Mine isn't 500%, it's just +500 damage. for 40sp.), and it's definitely NOT just a fun build. It supplements Throw Huuma and at times can even be better than it, given the right mob. Throw Kunai is a staple of throwing Ninjas.

 

 

Grinding mobs for items in order to actually get to grinding your character's level isn't fun. And you keep comparing it to cooking, but cooking is something that Gravity should have rebalanced a long time ago anyway when they were working on Renewal. The stat bonuses aren't anywhere near worth it now that their effectiveness has been reduced and you can just get a whole lot more stats with lvl 150. kRO should have reworked cooking to give more meaningful bonuses, but that will never happen, because like the entire gunslinger class itself, it's a relic of pre-renewal that never seemed to be looked at to balance when renewal came along. I mean seriously, hand guns actually increase your aspd when equipped compared to bare-hands and they're a whole lot faster than gatling guns? That's just ridiculous. Thankfully, kRO introduced the Rebellion, which seems more in-line with the mechanics and scaling of renewal. :c


Edited by aikokun, 25 March 2014 - 05:00 PM.

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#16 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 04:59 PM

Spheres do less damage than Kunai, cost more to manufacture, and have a lower attack rate. Furthermore, of the two direct offensive skills to make use of Grenade Launchers, one requires a catalyst in the form of a coin (imagine losing a charm whenever you used Throw Kunai, and your charms only had a 50% chance of even working), and the other is prohibitively expensive at 60SP per cast.

 

Hmm... I will need recalculate my data. I haven't seen the power myself, actually, so I'm likely to be wrong about its damage. Sorry. Many things in RO need balancing these days. Some items or skills aren't cost-efficient, over-powered, etc.

 

 

Honestly, I think this is the proposal submission process for RO nowdays:

 

Development of RO is handled by Gravity, the developers, not Warp Portal, which is just a service provider. Though I believe adding items to an NPC or editing items value are within their power. Not sure if it's because of incompetence or that they really don't have enough human resource.

 

 

Using grenade launchers is not a privilege. That's like arguing using bows as a Rogue is a privilege. Grenade Launcher may do more damage per basic attack, but combined with the lack of skills and the INCREDIBLY slow aspd you do way more dps with any other gun.

 

And I'm talking about post-nerf Throw Kunai. It's definitely not that costly, it does way more damage than Gunslinger Mine (Mine isn't 500%, it's just +500 damage. for 40sp.), and it's definitely NOT just a fun build. It supplements Throw Huuma and at times can even be better than it, given the right mob. Throw Kunai is a staple of throwing Ninjas.

 

Yeah, my bad. I forgot that Grenade Launcher is the slowest type of guns.

 

Grinding mobs for items in order to actually get to grinding your character's level isn't fun. And you keep comparing it to cooking, but cooking is something that Gravity should have rebalanced a long time ago anyway when they were working on Renewal. The stat bonuses aren't anywhere near worth it now that their effectiveness has been reduced and you can just get a whole lot more stats with lvl 150. kRO should have reworked cooking to give more meaningful bonuses, but that will never happen, because like the entire gunslinger class itself, it's a relic of pre-renewal that never seemed to be looked at to balance when renewal came along. I mean seriously, hand guns actually increase your aspd when equipped compared to bare-hands and they're a whole lot faster than gatling guns? That's just ridiculous. Thankfully, kRO introduced the Rebellion, which seems more in-line with the mechanics and scaling of renewal. :c

 

Exactly. The success rate is hell, and the stat bonus is crap. Cooking is supposed to be enjoyable by everyone, but they make the success rate so bad that classes other than brewer can't have a chance of playing with it. >.>

 

I often see a loading screen about Cooking buff-up or something similar, but I don't feel any difference.

 

That hand gun ASPD doesn't make sense at all. Many things in RO really needs balancing. Buff Soul Linker's Esma, please.


Edited by NorthenBeggar, 25 March 2014 - 05:07 PM.

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#17 aikokun

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 05:24 PM

Haha yeah. I think what irks me so much about the cooking stuff is that when renewal came it had the potential to be so much more and they never did anything with it. There are so many things they could do with food. :(


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#18 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 06:24 PM

Haha yeah. I think what irks me so much about the cooking stuff is that when renewal came it had the potential to be so much more and they never did anything with it. There are so many things they could do with food. :(

 

It will be fun to imagine a party of low level characters waiting in Payon, and a Swordie girl comes with a bunch of food, "Guys, I made lunch." It will be just like in the anime.  :p_laugh:

 

So many things to be taken care of, like this sphere thing. I wonder how long will it take.  :p_sad:


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#19 spikexp

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 08:46 AM

Who wants to cook hardly to get a +10 food?

They have +20s around.

PS: Forgers can cook. Not any better than brewers, but forgers CAN cook.
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#20 Facekiller

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:50 AM

i cook with fairly decent results... just hunting ingredients is a pain in the ass for some of the stuff... not so much the ingredients but the amounts you need per attempt is a bit ridiculous


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#21 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 04:06 PM

PS: Forgers can cook. Not any better than brewers, but forgers CAN cook.

 

B-b-but I want cooking to be enjoyable by everyone.  :p_cry:

 

Make the success rate doable by even low level characters, or just remove it. Looking for ingredients is already worth the temporary +10 STR buff reward. Kunai and Gunslinger Spheres don't have success rate thing, right? Why should cooking then?  :ok:

 

On topic: Yeah, making an NPC that sells spheres is a good idea, but it'd be nice to make players to do a quest first before they can buy it.


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#22 spikexp

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 04:32 PM

B-b-but I want cooking to be enjoyable by everyone.  :p_cry:


wiki said you can do the quest since lv 50. do it, and everyone can be a cook. enjoyable is relative.

by lv 50, if you only allocate your stats to dex and luk, you can reach 50 dex and 50 luk. that's quite something. lower than 50?

let's just say you're too young to even hold a wok.
 

Make the success rate doable by even low level characters, or just remove it. Looking for ingredients is already worth the temporary +10 STR buff reward. Kunai and Gunslinger Spheres don't have success rate thing, right? Why should cooking then?  :ok:


so you can brag over your homemade meal
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#23 NorthenBeggar

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 04:46 PM

wiki said you can do the quest since lv 50. do it, and everyone can be a cook. enjoyable is relative.

by lv 50, if you only allocate your stats to dex and luk, you can reach 50 dex and 50 luk. that's quite something. lower than 50?

let's just say you're too young to even hold a wok.

 

Have you even ever tried cooking? The success rate is incredibly low even with 99 DEX and Home Cooking Kit for lv 5 food. A Crusader, Knight, Monk, or Priest won't have that many DEX and LUK, and if they try to cook, they will do nothing but wasting money and resource. Tell me if wasting wealth like that could be enjoyable.

 

so you can brag over your homemade meal

 

I didn't know you could scan a bowl of tomato soup into your computer and share it in RO.


Edited by NorthenBeggar, 26 March 2014 - 04:48 PM.

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#24 EpicGnome

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 07:27 AM

1200z plus time hunting items for a measly 30 spheres isn't cheap. Those spheres go by so fast. :(

O-o If you think that isn't cheap try going through tons of magazines of bullets then friend or other items. Spheres are easy and cheap and most people dont do the grenade build anyways.


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#25 Hardc0re

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Posted 29 March 2014 - 07:28 AM

and most people dont do the grenade build anyways.

 

That's not a valide reason at all


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