27 replies to this topic

[belld1711]

I have noticed that people put in a lot of effort into making those anti-bot/anti-zeny-buying ads that appear when your loading a screen. The problem I see with them is that even on a crappy connection, the loading screen pops up and is gone in a matter of at most 3 seconds, not nearly enough time to read all the texts! (I had to see the "Experimenting table"  ad at least 4 times before I could read all the texts, and I have 3 comps usually running, on a severely out-dated Buffalo Airstation router with RoadRunner LITE internet!) Imagine how hard it is for people who aren't fluent in English to read all that. After reading a bit in the "IP banning proposal" thread, I came up with a better solution:

 

When everyone logs in, the first screen they see is an Epileptic Seizure warning that they have to agree to. That's all well and good, but I say just stuff that warning into the Terms of Service if you have to. Only a small percentage of gamers have this problem anyway. Replace this with a SHORT but clear message, about 3-5 lines MAX with it being repeated in a minimum of  3 of the most popular languages in the server. People will be able to take the time to read and understand it BEFORE they click the Ok button, and proceed into the game. When a zeny-seller/buyer or bot is caught in-game, the GMs proceed with a three-step process to eliminate them:

 

#1-Drop the +20 Ban Hammer O' Death

#2-When the zeny-buyers and botters create tickets or post on the forums, smack them with a Clue-by-Four.

#3-Watch the crying take place while enjoying some popcorn and a soda.

 

With this in place, our community artists can begin making their wonderful (and some times disturbingly ugly) screen loaders without having to include those messages.

 

Another idea: Fight fire with fire:

 

We have all kinds of NPCs in the game that teach people how to play, especially in Izlude and the Academy. Hell, we even have one just outside Izlude put in just to teach people how to SIT! (I found it amusing to over-hear a novice asking a second-class how to sit when they could have walked 5 tiles away from the Izlude portal to be able to hear the message. xD)

 

We also have zeny-seller novices popping  up in Izlude where new players will hear their messages first, before any other warnings (with the exception of the unread Terms of Service.)

 

How about the GMs create a new NPC, or hell, even just create their own spammer warning that people can (and will) get banned for botting and buying zeny? And they can even be left on the newbie ship, so the warnings will be the first things that a novice will see?

 

They aren't the most tech-savvy ideas, but on iRO, simplicity is often the best course. What do y'all think?

[Facekiller]

i like the idea of having a NPC spammer telling new players that botting and RMTing are illegal... ive suggested this before actually... these things need to be everywhere so players cant say they didnt know... apparently on other servers botting was ok and when those servers closed down due to being total crap the players came here expecting to do the same thing....

[Kandine]

I also like the idea where there are few simple rules that is on the Terms of Service screen before being able to login. Just add a link to the Terms of Service as a part of the rule.

 

I also agree that most of the population doesnt read the Terms of Service anyway. People will only start to read it when a debate is going on in the forums, and the rules coming from Terms of Service is somewhat related so that they can quote something from it for their rebuttal.

[JillOfTrades]

#3-Watch the crying take place while enjoying some popcorn and a soda.

I love you...

[Inubashiri]

Can make something into the client that displays a message every few hours to not buy zeny and on startup as well...but have to ask first.

[ZeroTigress]

Yeah, I kind of prefer the tip window for all the announcement stuff like the scams and chat toggles. Just make it so people can't toggle it off and you can still get the message across without filling someone's chat box.

[EpicGnome]

Honestly, it is about as enforceable as it is in any other game. Zeny Buy/Selling will never go away. They have absolutely no way to stop it. Also trying to enforce the "illegal" portion of it is very nil. How many places do you know that actually take people to court based on Terms of Service? The best they can do is implement anti-botting code to verify you're there every hour or something of that nature. It would also help if there were more active GMs on frequently. It's not like WarpPortal doesn't make money with all their games and purchases, they could probably afford to have at least one or two paid GMs on during major traffic hours to mitigate requests as well. Needs to be a way to more easily report botters in game instead of coming to the forums.

[belld1711]

Uhm, first off, there's an in-game reporting feature in the works. Second, afaik there is a GM that's usually on during peak traffic. S/He is checking the characters that have been reported through tickets, then going through some of the maps. It's not like they just wave a wand and *boom*, they're all gone. They have to watch each person on each map. And Oda also helps out on that some times as you can see in the bot reporting thread, although it's not really his job. He does it whenever he has time. And finally, who said anything about court? lol WP doesn't need to take people to court. They ban the account. If it's a VIP account, they get to keep the money spent on the account, no questions asked.

 

The whole point is to inform people (usually the ones that think it's okay because they migrate here from a server that allowed the use of bots/zeny selling) that it's not allowed here, and that they'll suffer consequences if they take part in zeny buying/selling and botting activities. It's more for those that don't know better, not the ones that are openly abusing these when they know it's not okay (like the zeny sellers.)

[1262225918]

There is a more simple solution to prevent bots in a Ragnarok Online server. Most private servers use it, like for example this service, which encrypts the login packets, and prevents the bot software from working. Any other script, like this suggestion, is either not going to work, or it will be very annoying for people who are actually playing. If a "bot police" appears every hour, the bot will have this time length to farm items, and when the message prompts he will just log off and reconnect.

 

Can make something into the client that displays a message every few hours to not buy zeny and on startup as well...but have to ask first.

 

There are LoadScreens with that message. As long as there are people buying zeny, the chinese and russian bots will never leave the server.

Edited by 1262225918, 02 April 2014 - 05:03 AM.

[Viri]

At 200 dollars a seat that sure seems like it would be worthwhile... Not.

[KhelbenVasq]

I just say if a confirmed bot or spammer is found, they need to be isolated on a small desert map no exits where the only people they see is other bots and spammers, force that map to be their Home save and recall spot for the spell so they can not get off it.  Do this to every character on the same account

 

Now all the spammers and Trash bots are stuck, trying to spam and bot other spammers and bots every time they log in...

 

and to add insult to injury load the map with MPV level HODE Monsters with no drops...

 

After a few accounts of botters and spammers get done this way word will get out and they will avoid the server like the plague.

 

Khelben Bardric Wylan

 

[1262225918]

And they can create more chars once they change maps, or relog. They got macros for it. They don't have to move a finger.

Edited by 1262225918, 03 April 2014 - 03:49 AM.

[Mihai9]

  As I have seen, the loading screens aren't so useful because not many people could read them (sometimes I'm able to read them, but I have to read fast). Anyway, in my opinion, the loading screens could be more beautiful without those messages about botting/buying zeny/spamming. The first image of a beginner "DO NOT bot/spam/buy zeny". I was a little shocked. Well, that's just me. The new player should see some friendly images. Some images are really cute too   and I love them, that's true.

   I recommend to make a new NPC in the center of the map of Porings, Fabres and Lunatics (Prontera Field, where the new player starts his/her journey) which talks about this. He/she would talk like the pet, foe example: "Please, be careful, hero! Do not buy free Zeny. It will compromise you", "Hey, friend! Take care of you and do not bot. It's dangerous" or "Please do not repeat the same sentence more times. It will annoy people and you will get excluded" and some random says: "Welcome to Prontera Field, amateur adventurer!" and "Be nice to everyone and offer your help.". The NPC should say friendly things to the beginner, so he or she will accommodate easy (Probably it sounds childish, but it could work). If the new player will click on the NPC, its first says should be "Hello, friend!", and three options (dialogues): "What happens if I buy Zeny for free?", "Why is ilegal botting and how could it affect me?" and "What is spamming and why is it annoying?", for example. The NPC will tell everything and (probably) the beginner will realise what is good and what is bad. Also, the NPC will do some emotions too, like /no1, /heh and /scissors. The emotions have to be positive. Probably this doesn't matter, but the NPC should have a normal name too, like "Roland" or any else, but not "1_ANTIBOT_BOY", for example. The beginner will get confused and probably it will leave. This is my idea. So every low level player will know what to do (to avoid buying zeny, spamming and botting) and the loading screens will be simple, without advertisments. I think it is useful

   And now, about the spammers and botters... When the personage repeats more than 3 times the same sentence (or more sentences) the game would release a debuff to that personage, like "Pain". Pain will make the character to be frozen for 2 hours, for example... (If it relogs, it will be under the debuff), it won't be able to talk and its HP will decrease by 1 HP per second, without killing the personage. If it dies and respawns in its safe point, the debuff will be still there. About the bots, this debuff could be used for them too, but an unlimited time. They will be unfrozen after sending a ticket and explaining everything there. So people will be sick of botting or spamming anymore, and they will stop doing this. It is pretty strict, but... It could work! Probably.... For those who buys zeny, I have no idea.

   This is what I think.

  

Edited by Mihai9, 03 April 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Inubashiri]

I just say if a confirmed bot or spammer is found, they need to be isolated on a small desert map no exits where the only people they see is other bots and spammers, force that map to be their Home save and recall spot for the spell so they can not get off it.  Do this to every character on the same account

 

Now all the spammers and Trash bots are stuck, trying to spam and bot other spammers and bots every time they log in...

 

and to add insult to injury load the map with MPV level HODE Monsters with no drops...

 

After a few accounts of botters and spammers get done this way word will get out and they will avoid the server like the plague.

 

Khelben Bardric Wylan

 

Already being done now...

[KhelbenVasq]

Already being done now...

 

Nice I hope I never ever see that map.... 

 

Khelben

[EpicGnome]

The only thing I've ever seen work in my decade+ of playing MMOs is a verification system. No other method makes a noticable dent in botting. One mere GM that is only active at a particular time is not sufficient to control a population of 2500+ players on at any given time. Let's think a bit here. If the current system worked, there wouldn't be a botting problem.

 

That reply seemed to be made by a 15 year old. The word ILLEGAL means a violation of law and court action. Something being illegal and bannable are two different things and the fact it is illegal is brought up in all anti-zeny buying/selling ads.

 

Having a random pop up and click system wouldn't work well, however having a text activated verification system would work wonders. If the person doesn't verify that they are there, they are kicked. If they are kicked x amount of times it can go to review by GM to block them entirely. The system would have a transparent pop up appear to the side of the screen (Could be small but noticable under the map in upper right) that would flash and say something along the lines of "Verify You Are Here By Typing /Verify" or something of that nature. If you wanted to prevent the evolution of botting software to recongize the appearance, change it so it doesnt appear in a fixed location on the screen or make the command to verify different every time. Give a 5-10 minute allowance so people can get to a safe area. To prevent simply AFK players from getting kicked you could turn on some sort of AFK mode that disables the verify system, but in AFK mode you can only sit and rest or vend.

 

Any other method short of very intensive computer banning methods which WarpPortal would never implement would not ever work over all. And for the younger people who don't know those methods, I am not talking about IP Bans. Those are useless. There will always be botters and always be in game money vendors. Most of the other suggestions and current methods barely make a dent.

Edited by EpicGnome, 11 April 2014 - 08:13 AM.

[belld1711]

Uhm, the Terms of Service is a legal binding document. Not all "illegal" activities go before a court. Botting and buying zeny would be considered to be in the Civil Court area. Civil court, which means that the defendant and plaintiff can settle outside of court, which they do with banning. The Terms of Service is there to set forth rules for the players and to protect Gravity and Wp's backsides in case someone decided they were treated unfairly (a botter, for example).

 

But I don't think a verification system would work. A lot of bot programs, from what I understand, will disconnect if someone sends them a whisper. So I imagine they can be made to avoid the verification system as well. And also, as people have pointed out, there are ways around these kind of things. I believe someone once said that kRO had a verification system similar to that, and it either didn't work or the legit players didn't like it.

 

Besides, if someone is trying to level and are getting mobbed, or if they're on a battle manual running around TI in a large party, I really don't think people would want a pop up (transparent or not) popping up on their screens at random times, nor would they have time to type the required response. Think about it, a wiz or AB getting the verification request every five minutes in a large party in TI. The question is, do you respond and die, taking a hit to your exp/jexp, and resulting in the entire party possibly getting wiped out? Or do you ignore it, get kicked, have the +1 to your failure to respond, which also results in a possible party being wiped out? It shouldn't be a choice between the better of two evils...

[Inubashiri]

The personal bots are the hardest, the zeny bots are being destroyed almost minutely, got the data to back it up for at least 8 months now I think. And no I am not 15.

[KhelbenVasq]

Other games where I have seen bot problems destroyed did something that may cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth here.

 

Limit active log ins per ipv6 address or mac address to 1.  

 

this of course would mean some type of work around for merchant venders would have to be arranged so they could log out and leave their shop up and log in on their main character.

 

People who dual client would need to get assistance from other players to fill in the role of their drag along slaves... maybe not such a bad thing, it would encourage more real parties.

 

Also the stomp by mac address handles: dhcp and changing ip numbers nicely.  They would have to Rotate their mac address or clone it in their router...  Ah there is the snag multi computer households...  I was avoiding ipv4 due to them, but if all you get is the mac of the router then they would get crushed also.

 

Of course modify the game to allow only one instance per system memory at a time would have a similar effect.

 

This also would get around programs that parallel access the game.  

 

That and a Captcha at the First log in screen would catch more of the auto-log in bots.

 

Still think every toon on a busted account should be saved to a no escape hode map, but then that is just me.

[Viri]

Or I could just use multiple sandboxes with multiple ip addresses/MAC address combinations. Would take about 15 seconds to setup.

 

All this would encourage is people to not log in at all.

Edited by Viri, 14 April 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[KhelbenVasq]

Hence the One instance per system memory...  The only work around for that is Multiple Instances of VM or Virtual Systems.  Real memory Hogging.

 

 

[Viri]

This pretty much does all the work for you...

 

http://sandboxie.com/

 

[AlmrOfAtlas]

We've discussed this...

All it serves to do is annoy the legit players and barely inconvenience the illegit ones.

[Viri]

Exactly. Anyone who wants to will circumvent it. Anyone who can't be bothered/doesn't know how will just get left out in the cold

[belld1711]

ipv6, MAC addresses...work-arounds? Why not just pull the plug? That would be easier and just as inconvenient to legit players. Seriously, the entire point to this topic is that it would be more cost-effective and easier to just replace the Epileptic warning at start up with a very short but concise message telling people not to bot or buy zeny with real world currency. If they're caught, they get banned, and they will not get unbanned for any reason what so ever.

 

Yeah, they can create new accounts/characters, but do you think they'll buy zeny if they dropped a few hundred USD on their banned account and never got to use that zeny? And people might be less likely to use bots if they are actually informed that botting is illegal BEFORE they log in, especially those that honestly don't know better and are coming from games or servers that allowed it.

 

All this talk about ip addresses, MAC filtering, or whatever have you... You may as well board your doors and windows to your house to keep flies out. In the end, anyone that wants to come visit won't be able to, and you'll still have flies in your house. That's the good that stuff does.