53 replies to this topic

[lolmetimbers89]

With game arena consisting of ONLY Crystal Defenders about 99% of the time, the current point system imo is not helping this imbalance nor is it promoting PvP in general.

 

Currently, all games cost 4k and you have a pool of 10k points that regenerates slowly. I know you are trying to push premium sales but this only makes people PvP less since they run out of points faster. For those who have multiple PvP characters this is not so much of an issue as they can jump around, yet it is still a negative feature as it is just a hindrance and not a reward for premium status. A lot of the time I would like to PvP and practice on a certain class. 

 

If you wanted to promote Draconis Peaks or Akram Arena (which never gets played these days) then you could reduce the points to join for these 2 games and/or increase Crystal Defenders join cost. Yet doing so is still effectively a restriction on the game - if people want to play CD they should be allowed to play it since it is popular for a reason. At the moment, you have to wait long periods at times just for a game to pop, so why further reduce these numbers by not allowing people to queue? You often see the game confirmation pop 3-4 times before getting into a single game since there are not enough people.

 

The same goes for dungeons with the high cost at 7k per pop which is SHARED with the PvP games. Why should PvM be shared with PvP? Having such a model just makes people not want to run dungeons and play PvP Game Arena - and that is exactly what has happened. Low number of players + restrictive point system = not much activity at all = even less incentive to play the game = less money for you too! You are killing the game like this.

 

Instead of forcing players to twiddle their thumbs and wait for points to regen or log onto another toon you should promote activity levels. Reward those who put more effort and play the game more basically. And premium status should be a bonus ontop of that system with more points earned and perhaps unique rewards. Please remove this restrictive point system, after I run out of points you know what I do? I play a different game, one that encourages people to play more. 

 

edit: And this was purposely posted in general since it is where the most people will see it. And it is more so a critique of the game arena system anyway.

 

Edited by lolmetimbers89, 17 April 2014 - 01:42 AM.

[Feuer]

It's not based on "cost" it's based on "wait time", which the old UW system rewarded less at cap, and, started only once every what 12 hours? This system is far more farmable, and FAR more rewarding then you know of. From my personal opinion lol. 

[lolmetimbers89]

Wait time is a cost. Just as time is money.

 

Union War was a completely different system. And I agree that the current Game Arena system is better. That doesn't mean I don't think that it is flawed though, regardless of how farmable or rewarding it may seem.

 

edit: The best analogy I can give to what is in place is phone games that are designed to force you to buy 'crystals' or 'stamina' to actually continue playing the game. They set timers that are so long you either pay or stop playing. I always chose the latter and just moved onto something else.

Edited by lolmetimbers89, 17 April 2014 - 02:00 AM.

[DarthKarla]

I haven't played Arkam Arena, only Draconis Peaks and CD.

 

I think loads of people will complain again if you increase the energy cost for Crystal defending.

 

People like the Cristal defenders more because it seems more straight forward than Drocoonis Peaks. I don't know about Arkam Arena though I haven't played it.

 

 

 

[Feuer]

Can anyone remind me how long it takes to regenerate 10k energy? Cause all I know is that with a good game, I can qeue 3 times in a row before having to wait at all for another qeue. By the time I spend 8k energy on 2 games, I've recovered an additional 4k for a 3rd qeue.

 

Not to mention 500 energy can be bought for valor/honor points, and it's not expensive at all. So if you really want more qeues, spend a lil fraction of your honor/valor on energy and get into the qeue again. 

[Kermaperuna]

It's not based on "cost" it's based on "wait time", which the old UW system rewarded less at cap, and, started only once every what 12 hours? This system is far more farmable, and FAR more rewarding then you know of. From my personal opinion lol. 

Remove the '1' and you're back on track.

[jerremy]

Not necessarily, on draconis UW would sometimes not go for a full day.

[Infinity49]

I agree. I don't even understand why there is a limit to dungeons and PvP Arenas. Well, except pushing people to buy prenium account.

I'm a pvp fan on all mmo i played, and i find disturbing to be able to do 2-3 games in a row and then, nothing. I don't want to make several characters for some reasons (time, boring exp, not attracted by other class ...), i don't like farming stuff not pvp related and dungeons are too linear and not challenging to motivate me.

So, when i used all my points, I just Alt F4 and play other games. I like ROSE, but it's quite boring to not be able to do what i like all day long (when i take a day off ). And add to this that game can take a lot of time to be lauched, so i prefer to slay people in another game.

 

There are several ways to sell prenium accounts, but "nerfing" PvP arena and dungeons are just making ROSE lose players. (boring to exp when you are a newcomer, then can't do what you want "end-game" not the best idea!).

Edited by Infinity49, 17 April 2014 - 04:14 AM.

[Kermaperuna]

Okay lets be more specific then, it was scheduled to go off every 2 hours.

 

Yes, it didn't always start because there weren't enough people who signed up for it.

[Filipito98]

Can anyone remind me how long it takes to regenerate 10k energy? Cause all I know is that with a good game, I can qeue 3 times in a row before having to wait at all for another qeue. By the time I spend 8k energy on 2 games, I've recovered an additional 4k for a 3rd qeue.

 

Not to mention 500 energy can be bought for valor/honor points, and it's not expensive at all. So if you really want more qeues, spend a lil fraction of your honor/valor on energy and get into the qeue again. 

The GA Reg is enought to made many CDs in a row but that also depends about the CD time, wen more time = more CDs in a row, also an easy way for faster CD full up valor points for refill faster

more or less per 30 mins or more or less is like 5k GA (idk cause like wen i queue to DG more or less in a few mins or few time in GA i have already enought GA for do another DG in less time

i thing GA system shouldnt be change, cause seems is perfectly, ppl just need to be patient, also if they wana rush, they go farm valor n buy GA points lol

for my opinion i have many time for do DGs n i dont need to worry mutch about GA reg since i have more stuff to do in game or go check sites/forum/ etc

[Nifa]

4k energy per hour

[lolmetimbers89]

So, when i used all my points, I just Alt F4 and play other games. I like ROSE, but it's quite boring to not be able to do what i like all day long (when i take a day off ). And add to this that game can take a lot of time to be lauched, so i prefer to slay people in another game.

 

Well at least someone gets what I mean.

 

It isn't even about premium/pay2win or even item mall anymore (which i'm happy to spend money on for certain items) but that you actually need to pay to keep playing the game. This restricts the already low population in participating in PvP/PvM at their own discretion. Do just one dungeon and you can't PvP for awhile without paying up. Crystal Defenders has a harder time starting up since people are locked out fast. Imagine if they started putting limits in the amount of time you could spend in training grounds or implementing an expensive payment system to get inside - things like this feel so backwards and do not promote activity and thus also a higher game population. It can be so boring at end game because of the limited things you can do, why make it even more limited?

[Feuer]

True, I guess I shoulda said that differently lol oh well. 

 

Back to the point, you have GA honor to Valor conversions. If you wanted to play more qeues all you have to do is convert a very small amount of valor or honor. 

 

Here's a tip, go to the Junon Order, take the fetch quest to the Valley of Luxem Tower. deliver the meds to Shannon. Get i think 2-3 valor. Do it 2 times, get 500 energy. And it'd only take you like maybe 3 minutes tops if you're slow. 

If you ot an AoE Toon, go to the Righteous Crusaders, get the quest to kill 30 moldies, turn is back in, get 3 valor, do it twice, get 500 energy.

 

Both of those are SUPER easy, take VERY little time, and if you do the quest 8 times, you get 4k Energy + the energy yu naturally recovered. 

 

Try putting some effort into it guys cmon. Those were the lowest quests too >< if you do the Xita quests, like kill pincers, you get something like 9 valor, do that twice and you get 1500 energy. 

[Nifa]

10 valor = 500 energy..

[Feuer]

Thought it was 5. oh well, adjust the conversions, it still doesn't take a lot. 

[Leonis]

I understand where you're coming from. As things were before, you were freely able to participate, pillage and plunder the PvP modes. Without repeating myself from the days leading up to the energy cost implementation, there have been some examples provided that show you are able to still have a relatively open access to entering the Game Arena modes, with some additional effort outside of it. However, if you choose not to, we have no issue with your taking the time off to let the energy regenerate naturally.

 

So, if you're really want to participate in the PvP modes that much, there are ways for you to do so with relatively minimal down time, without having to give in to any premium services or Item Mall purchases. It will take a little of your time to do, but if it isn't worth it to you, hey, who are we to judge? We only made it possible so those who put in the effort are able to be rewarded. Instead of letting it remain an open door.

[DestinyDeoxys]

Many people have several characters 200+, it is hard to reach 230 but it isn't hard to reach 200+, that will solve your problem. But in my opinion, dungeons should also be 4000 energy cost instead of 7000, doesn't make sense to me.

[Leonis]

Many people have several characters 200+, it is hard to reach 230 but it isn't hard to reach 200+, that will solve your problem. But in my opinion, dungeons should also be 4000 energy cost instead of 7000, doesn't make sense to me.

 

It's because the rewards from a dungeon are set and guaranteed, while your rewards from a PvP match aren't and are more based on your accomplishments. It's a matter of yield vs cost, is why they're set that way.

[lolmetimbers89]

Thing is Leonis, other than paying for premium or actually using your points to restore energy, doing those quests is mind boggling boring and mundane. I would rather log off than do those again. I did those hundreds of times when I was farming union points back in the day, what makes you think that players would want to do low level fetch and kill quests to play end game content? And better yet, for those who want to PvP only, why are you forcing them to do mundane PvM content and sharing the point system cap? It is as said, pay for premium or pay up with your points to keep playing vs boring valor farming. And seriously, 80/140 valor to reset a game arena game which is not guaranteed to pop anytime soon? No thanks, personally it is not worth the boredom or points. 

 

Just one dungeon and you are locked out from participating from anymore 'end game' content. If this topic does anything, you should at least separate the PvP/PvM aspect of the point system. And when you say that effort should be rewarded I agree completely, just not in your way. Putting in effort to reap rewards should be enjoyable. Participation in dungeons and PvP should equal more rewards. As a side effect you get more people participating and playing the game. And keep playing the game. If it were up to me I would let people queue up for what they wanted when they wanted - but at a certain point you can start restricting or removing the amount of awards they receive eg: after playing 5 crystal defender games in a certain time period, points you get are split in half. After 10 you get zero points. People who have done 3-5 dungeons can continue running dungeons with other friends who still haven't done their daily quests. This is especially important in the case of needing a cleric in your party. If a cleric is locked out and no one else has one to switch to = log off game. This type of model still allows a player to play the game while still limiting their reward yield.

 

Anyways, that's all I have to say about this topic and hope you understand the restrictions that such a system has on gameplay and enjoyment.

 

 

Edited by lolmetimbers89, 17 April 2014 - 03:14 PM.

[Feuer]

Noone is being forced to do them, it's an option for those who wish to utilize it, and if you don't then that is your choice. 

[lolmetimbers89]

And Feuer, it is also an option to alt+F4 and play something else. That is currently my choice when I run out of points on my characters. And that's why I made that topic. You are penalized to play the game. And do you personally farm valor to reset? Although you suggest it, I bet you don't. I have actually never seen someone to that lmao - 'brb farming valor to reset so I can PvP'.

[coalchamberloco]

I understand where you're coming from. As things were before, you were freely able to participate, pillage and plunder the PvP modes. Without repeating myself from the days leading up to the energy cost implementation, there have been some examples provided that show you are able to still have a relatively open access to entering the Game Arena modes, with some additional effort outside of it. However, if you choose not to, we have no issue with your taking the time off to let the energy regenerate naturally.

 

So, if you're really want to participate in the PvP modes that much, there are ways for you to do so with relatively minimal down time, without having to give in to any premium services or Item Mall purchases. It will take a little of your time to do, but if it isn't worth it to you, hey, who are we to judge? We only made it possible so those who put in the effort are able to be rewarded. Instead of letting it remain an open door.

 

What you did is one of the the worst things you can do in a "free to play" game model, you took something free players were able to enjoy and put a barrier up.  Instead of coming up with new interesting things for premium players, and enticing free to play to become premium you simply reduced access to something that was already being enjoyed in the game.

 

That is how you can always tell the companies that will continue to expand and do well, from the ones that are just milking the player base before ultimately becoming irreverent.

[Feuer]

Yes, In fact I do. As I have the 50% bonus valor reward, I run the delivery quests to Xita a couple times for some valor, and use the valor to pvp. 

 

It's also your choice to stop playing the game whenever you feel it is up to you. As was also said by other members, many have more then 1 max level char, and by the time you do say 3 characters capped out / used energy, the first one you did will have enough energy to do 2 more games on average. 

 

What I'm curious about is if you could answer a few questions, so I can get a better understanding of where your opinion is stemming from?

How many characters do you currently have at max range for pvp [220~230]:

How often do you participate in GA modes?

Whats your average time yu spend waiting in qeue?

About how long do the game modes last when you get into them?

Do you often leave the group if you have no FS?

 

This might help me and others understand why you seem to have a larger issue with the topic, when most have found ways to circumvent it. thanks. 

[Genesis]

...what makes you think that players would want to do low level fetch and kill quests to play end game content?

There are also Valor quests available in Eldeon and Orlo, and some of them are almost as lucrative as completing dungeons. It doesn't take much to complete a few quests to supplement the energy bar while it replenishes.

[lolmetimbers89]

How many characters do you currently have at max range for pvp [220~230]:

5 PvP toons. That doesn't mean I feel like playing all classes in a given day or period. As said, sometimes I want to PvP more on a specific or new character that needs practice.

How often do you participate in GA modes?

PvP is the only thing keeping me playing the game at the moment, I log in to PvP. Hence why, doing additional PvM content on PvP geared and skill based characters seems so backwards. That and PvM is boring to me in it's current state.

Whats your average time yu spend waiting in qeue?

This can vary a lot. During the times I play Wait times will fluctuate between 15min to up to an hour. Yup, an hour when it's dead. People only q CD and this results in numbers hovering around the 12-13 mark and the game is unable to start. Then, once the games do get going they can die after a couple rounds. You often see people shouting JOIN CD in trade, and there have been numerous times where I would have loved to join with my cleric to buff/heal but it is locked out. No cleric = gg.

About how long do the game modes last when you get into them?

Since CD is the only thing that really pops, 5-15min only. Many games are a complete one sided massacre because one team has no clerics while the other has 2-3. But that's another balance issue that should be addressed.

Do you often leave the group if you have no FS?

I will never leave a PvP arena no matter how good or bad it is going. Back when you could q up quickly for dungeons, I would leave a dungeon if the group could not complete it after trying. In most cases this was because of the absence of a cleric. 

Edited by lolmetimbers89, 17 April 2014 - 03:39 PM.