14 replies to this topic

[Firechan]

I'm trying to make a well rounded character that has, after the pain of hitting 99 as an alchemist, a certain amount of ease in leveling, pwning, and facemelting as a Bio & Gene. My right hand companion would be my homunculus... if I could ever figure out what I want! I play on Chaos and Classic, but for now I'm focused on finding something that is well balanced. 

 

While I most certainly do want to MVP, I also want to enjoy whacking things out in the maps and exploring all the fun monsters implemented while I've been away. I may also want to do some PvP and WoE...Especially WoE.

 

I have no desire for the clone gone wrong, Dieter. He's scary.  

 

Bayeri, the cute little derpicorn, would be my choice if his casts weren't breakable, but I read about his challenges. 

 

That leaves the cat-girl, the fairy, the bee, and oh wait no.. just those 3.

 

The cat girl seems pretty useful for PvP but that's about it. (Sorry, just detailing my line of thinking--please correct me if I'm wrong about these ones).

 

The bee is the default choice after the little bottle of horror. o_o painkiller is beyond OP for damage mitigation and she seems to have a decent amount of AoE possibilities.

 

However, with the right base it seems like the fairy could be a useful companion for more than just MvPs. I'm looking for well-rounded rather than a niche. 

 

For Eira, having a filir or vani base seems like a good idea. With Overboost you get insane aspd and flee (like for breaking an emp) if I understand her skills right. The raise might be okay if you know you're going to die and are out of wings or some weird specific situation, so I'm not too worried about it. Her damage skills seem okay and allow for some flexibility.

 

Which base would be better for her? Filir would be nice for it's loyalty skill since the S form could farm it, but an Amstir into Bee seems to be a nice beefy homun who can make taking damage a joke. I haven't played seriously since pre-renewal, so I'm really confused about what to expect after trans 99. I actively enjoy going out on the regular maps instead of TI, if that's of any relevance.

 

I've been reading threads all day and my head's just spinning. I don't know which information is current and a lot of the suggestions seem to go opposite what is on iro wiki or some of it's outdated and just     

 

 

 

Please help!

[sb120495]

For general purpose pvm/mvp/anythingthatisnotwoe:

ami-sera > vani-sera > anything else

 

Don't get a filir-sera.They have crappy vit.

 

For WoE :Dieter is the best but you said you're not gonna get it so get a sera.

[Firechan]

I wouldn't take a filir into Sera XD ---what I was comparing was the versatility of Filir/Eira vs an amstir/Sera combo. I was hoping someone could expand on them for me since I have no experience and I've been reading info on the forums and wiki all day.. and from experience reading doesn't always match up with performance in game.

 

Painkiller seems downright OP, which is awesome. But does Sera have anything other than that going for her? I read that her legion skill is buggy (no pun intended).

 

I also read somewhere that Silent Breeze had been reimplimented and then on other pages that it wasn't. If I want to go do WoE, Overboost seems like it's ASPD might be useful on the emperium. How does Sera do in WoE and PvP? 

 

I'm not just looking for something to mitigate damage. @_@; I expect my homun to have more utility than that; yet when I see people talking about Sera, that's all I see discussed (and her AoE which is a given for leveling AFK....which I don't do as it's boring).

[sb120495]

I wouldn't take a filir into Sera XD ---what I was comparing was the versatility of Filir/Eira vs an amstir/Sera combo. I was hoping someone could expand on them for me since I have no experience and I've been reading info on the forums and wiki all day.. and from experience reading doesn't always match up with performance in game.

 

Painkiller seems downright OP, which is awesome. But does Sera have anything other than that going for her? I read that her legion skill is buggy (no pun intended).

 

I also read somewhere that Silent Breeze had been reimplimented and then on other pages that it wasn't. If I want to go do WoE, Overboost seems like it's ASPD might be useful on the emperium. How does Sera do in WoE and PvP? 

 

I'm not just looking for something to mitigate damage. @_@; I expect my homun to have more utility than that; yet when I see people talking about Sera, that's all I see discussed (and her AoE which is a given for leveling AFK....which I don't do as it's boring).

Well Sera's biggest use is Painkiller.The legion skill can be used to attack one target but that's it.It has a high chance of getting stuck when changing targets so it must be casted again for every target.

In PvM this makes Sera more useful than all other homunculi.

In WoE,Dieter's volcanic ash is very very useful whereas Silent Breeze now just inflicts a normal silence(curable by green pots)so it's not that great.So Eira would be second best for WoE.A sera can't do much in WoE.

 

 

Homunculi don't really do much more.

[Firechan]

They've nerfed them a lot? I remember when they were considered pretty powerful additions to our limited bag of tricks. I'll dig around a bit more when I get off work. Seems like then it doesn't matter a whole lot then what I get. D: Disappointing.

[sb120495]

Pretty powerful additions?That hasn't been the case since renewal came out.They can't kill monsters their own level and are pretty bad at tanking(except an ami-dieter).They still do a lot though.A sera can let you solo mvps and monsters that you couldn't previously solo.A dieter will improve your damage considerably.An amistr's castling can save your life.But then again i only listed the useful skills.Many homun skills are pretty much useless.

[DrAzzy]

They've nerfed them a lot? I remember when they were considered pretty powerful additions to our limited bag of tricks. I'll dig around a bit more when I get off work. Seems like then it doesn't matter a whole lot then what I get. D: Disappointing.

That conclusion does not follow from the discussion. 

 

Homun fighting effectiveness doesn't matter - but they have powerful owner buff skills, and it matters greatly whether you get Painkiller (pvm near immortality), Overboost (500 flee 189 aspd on both owner and homun) or Pyroclastic (+200 atk at 150 homun), plus if you start with an Ami base, you get Bulwark, which give the owner vit. 

[Firechan]

Homunculi don't really do much more.

 

 

.Many homun skills are pretty much useless.

 

 

That conclusion does not follow from the discussion. 

 

Homun fighting effectiveness doesn't matter - but they have powerful owner buff skills, and it matters greatly whether you get Painkiller (pvm near immortality), Overboost (500 flee 189 aspd on both owner and homun) or Pyroclastic (+200 atk at 150 homun), plus if you start with an Ami base, you get Bulwark, which give the owner vit. 

 

Because of what he said. o_o My origional question, about a Filir/Vani into Eira vs Amstir into Sera was never answered either. Maybe I wasn't clear enough or it just came out wrong. I'm aware PK is an amazing skill. I understand why people choose Sera (and definitely why the creepy bottle is popular too). 

 

Last time I played the game seriously was back before Pre-Renewal. Since then I've not bothered to do more than log in here and there to say hi. I don't know what to expect endgame, so I'm asking for advice about the different utilities of these two Homun S based on a few things.

 

It's easy to see why Sera's PK is useful. But that seems to be the only useful skill she has (plus whatever she gets from her base), and it seems great for MvP/PvM. I understand about using Amstir. It wouldn't make sense to use any other base.

 

Eira's skill seems pretty useful too, for the ASPD boost mainly because of it's potential in WoE. Using an Amstir for her seems less useful, because a vani or filir's loyaty skill seems like it would actually get some use with her. 

 

But I have no experience with high end leveling or with the new WoE system. That's why I was asking about the performace of these two homunculus. 

[sb120495]

Because of what he said. o_o My origional question, about a Filir/Vani into Eira vs Amstir into Sera was never answered either. Maybe I wasn't clear enough or it just came out wrong. I'm aware PK is an amazing skill. I understand why people choose Sera (and definitely why the creepy bottle is popular too). 

I thought i said ami-sera > anything else?

 

Last time I played the game seriously was back before Pre-Renewal. Since then I've not bothered to do more than log in here and there to say hi. I don't know what to expect endgame, so I'm asking for advice about the different utilities of these two Homun S based on a few things.

 

It's easy to see why Sera's PK is useful. But that seems to be the only useful skill she has (plus whatever she gets from her base), and it seems great for MvP/PvM. I understand about using Amstir. It wouldn't make sense to use any other base.

All S homunculi have only one useful skill anyways so relatively,sera is the best.Just having one good skill may not seem like a lot but you'll be using it all the time in high level maps and it makes a world of a difference when soloing MvPs.

 

Eira's skill seems pretty useful too, for the ASPD boost mainly because of it's potential in WoE. Using an Amstir for her seems less useful, because a vani or filir's loyaty skill seems like it would actually get some use with her. 

Overboost has limited use in PvM.The only place you might use it is in the bangungot instance,but even there OB can be substituted by summon flora.I can't say much more about Eira because i don't have one.But for PvM,get an amistr base sera.

 

But I have no experience with high end leveling or with the new WoE system. That's why I was asking about the performace of these two homunculus. 

 

Edited by sb120495, 23 April 2014 - 06:28 PM.

[DrAzzy]

There are 4 truly good homun skills (PK, OB, Pyro, and Bulwark+Castling (together, they count as one, being generous)). (During WoE, PK is not useful, but Volcanic Ash is)

 

Then there are the semi-useful ones - things that are good on leveling homun, but not much use beyond that. This includes all the AoE attacks (these are very helpful on leveling. The persistant ones, poison mist and lava slide, in particular greatly speed homun leveling), Magma Flow*, Sonic Claw, and less useful buffs like granitic armor. 

 

Vani->Eira is a perfectly reasonable combo for using the vani-bomb (though vanibomb doesn't wipe entire top-tier guilds like it used to - we have mechanics with SD for that), and for breaking in WoE (They're slightly faster than maestro). The 500 flee is helpful in PVM (also, Eira is the only homun S that can get a decent flee rate). 

 

Filir's final skill just doesn't do enough damage, really, though i think it will 1-shot people in PVP/WoE, even with less than full loyalty (how much less depends how it's treated for reduction purposes). But that's still a lot of time spent reloading for killing one person. 

 

Advantages of Ami -> Sera are clear. Note that once sera gets poison mist, leveling in OD2 goes much faster with correctly configured AI. 

 

*Speaking of which... magma flow has 15% proc chance. What happens if you surround a dieter with people who have damage reflect effects on? Will the magma flows proc more magma flows?

[Firechan]

^____________^ Thank you. I was looking for the mechanics and whys and the tip for vani over filir if I choose to go with Eira. This kind of breakdown is more helpful for me. 

 

Vani caps out his stats earlier than most bases, right? But in the end they mostly (or completely?) cap out their stats if I understand the threads I read of yours DrAzzy. 

 

Amstir, outside of his skills, also has the best HP growth of all the starts... I think? I loved lif but she really did seem pretty useless for me since they nerfed MC. But what about SP for Sera with an amstir base? Or in the long run is it something I shouldn't really worry about? That was my other concern with Sera, overall I prefer her look and skills over the girl with the hair wings (no matter how cute the fairy thing is, she still flies via hair which is scary).

 

As far as magma flow.. I don't know.. do other skills get proc'd by reflect? I know that auto casts from the user can be via reflect since I used to use auto spells on my sader. Hmm.. That could be interesting..! Every time I see Dieter I keep imagining the Oogachaka baby or the creepy evian babies @_@.. I probably need more coffee.

 

I really appreciate you both trying to help me. I hope I don't come across as being willfully ignorant. I just don't understand a lot and get confused easy. ^^; I understand about Sera and will probably go that route since I love to mob. I just want to make a well thought choice and understand before I get there and then just get frustrated if I don't like her or she doesn't match my goals in game.

 

 

EDIT: It's not true that the base homun effects the ASPD of the S version right? O_o; Sera wouldn't have "gimped" attack from having an Amstir base...Right? I keep seeing people talk about that on the information I read outside of the forums, but I don't see why that would have any bearing on the S form. It's a whole new homunculus. kind of. right? *scratches head*

Edited by Firechan, 23 April 2014 - 07:23 PM.

[DrAzzy]

^____________^ Thank you. I was looking for the mechanics and whys and the tip for vani over filir if I choose to go with Eira. This kind of breakdown is more helpful for me. 

 

Vani caps out his stats earlier than most bases, right? But in the end they mostly (or completely?) cap out their stats if I understand the threads I read of yours DrAzzy. 

Yup - vani stat growth is is best, but the stat cap makes that irrelevant in most cases - the only time homuns don't hit the stat cap is when they

 

Amstir, outside of his skills, also has the best HP growth of all the starts... I think? I loved lif but she really did seem pretty useless for me since they nerfed MC. But what about SP for Sera with an amstir base? Or in the long run is it something I shouldn't really worry about? That was my other concern with Sera, overall I prefer her look and skills over the girl with the hair wings (no matter how cute the fairy thing is, she still flies via hair which is scary).

You get most of your max SP from homun S. Difference between ami base and vani base is only a few hundred sp out of 2.5-3k for a sera. For an Eleanor, it matters more, since they get miserable SP growth. 

 

As far as magma flow.. I don't know.. do other skills get proc'd by reflect? I know that auto casts from the user can be via reflect since I used to use auto spells on my sader. Hmm.. That could be interesting..! Every time I see Dieter I keep imagining the Oogachaka baby or the creepy evian babies @_@.. I probably need more coffee.

 

I was just sort of thinking about it - I'm not sure how it would work, though I'm pretty sure it's not useful for anything other than demonstrating the effect. 

 

I really appreciate you both trying to help me. I hope I don't come across as being willfully ignorant. I just don't understand a lot and get confused easy. ^^; I understand about Sera and will probably go that route since I love to mob. I just want to make a well thought choice and understand before I get there and then just get frustrated if I don't like her or she doesn't match my goals in game.

 

You seem to actually do research, which puts you ahead of 95% of the inquiries here.

 

EDIT: It's not true that the base homun effects the ASPD of the S version right? O_o; Sera wouldn't have "gimped" attack from having an Amstir base...Right? I keep seeing people talk about that on the information I read outside of the forums, but I don't see why that would have any bearing on the S form. It's a whole new homunculus. kind of. right? *scratches head*

 

Right - it doesn't effect the aspd (or other stats) of the homun S. During the time between when you change to homun S, and when you hit the stat cap, there can be an indirect effect, just because, say, a filir will be closer to the agi cap when it changes to homun S than an ami would - so until the ami-base hit the agi cap, the filir-base homun S would have higher aspd. 

 

Edited by DrAzzy, 24 April 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[Firechan]

The only time is when they... evolve to S late? o.o? Sentence got cut off there but I think I remember reading that in your guide or one of your posts.

 

Yes, I've been trying to do a lot of research. Eira might be nice if I make a different build but I am planing on using this as an MvP character so it seems Sera is the way to go. I may make a 2nd with a vani into Eira for WoE. ^ ^;; maybe. The leveling is a bit tough but I know it pays off later. For now I think it's good for me to focus on Shenanigans and her lil sheep.

 

Thank you again, I really do appreciate it. 

[DrAzzy]

when both the base type and the homun S BOTH have weak growth in that stat (for example, Filir -> Sera often doesn't max vit)

[Firechan]

Oh yeah! XD Welp now it's just a matter of leveling the little guy up. I've been afking him while I'm at work since it's kind of a lazy day (yay midterms = teachers become hall monitors for 8 hours... >_>) 

 

I figured once he's close to my level he should do alright killing alongside me when I go out to level my alchie. I have to say, Ami is much sturdier than I expected o_O;