19 replies to this topic

[Talvis]

While this game has a lot of good story quests and it making improvements with simple hunting quests, the system needs an overhaul.  Ideally they should completely rewrite the underlying quest system to properly support modern questing features.  Unfortunately since that would probably require rewriting the entire server program, I highly doubt the devs will ever bother doing that.  However, the quest system and window that exists is good, but only a small portion fully takes advantage of everything that the quest window has.  Unfortunately some older quests don't even have basic quest window info, much less use the navigation system and quest markers, and quest listing that the current system allows for.

Someone needs to go through each and every quest in the game, including iRO custom ones, and make sure they all have fully functioning quest journal entries (some don't have entries and some have entries that bug).  After that, go through and give all quests quest markers like the newest ones in the training area have.  You get new players use to quests having markers and such, but once they get away from the starting area, no quests have markers and they usually have to rely on fan sites like iWiki to know where they are.  Job npcs, Eden npcs, story quest npcs, and even the bounty boards should have the quest marker on them when appropriate.  The new part of the quest window that shows a listing of quests for the episodes needs to be updated.  Right now only the newest episode is supported and one of the newer culture towns.  Every single episode, culture town, and other update that has quests related to it should have a page.  Temporary event and iRO custom quests should also have a page.

Once this is done, it's time to perfect the quests themselves.  First, make sure all quests don't bug out.  Last I checked the Nid quest doesn't continue once you've killed Nid.  After that, I would make sure each quest gives a reasonable amount of base and job exp.  Doing a quest that takes an hr to complete should give exp similar to what the average person grinding could get.

The ability to completely remove a quest from the game like temporary event quests would be nice.  My quest journal is filled with entries for uncompletable event quests that will just sit there forever.  I know you can send in a ticket to get them removed which I have, but that's an inefficient way to do it.  There also use to be an npc, but that's no longer there.

Don't treat timers as regular journal entries.  either give them a separate place to show or make it so they naturally disappear when the expire.  Timer entries cannot be removed by the gms either from what I've heard.

Edited by Talvis, 20 July 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[Kadelia]

I agree nothing is polished. We have those tabs for viewing potential quests but like 1/10th of them are even there. It has a spot for NPC illustration but its never used. The 'new in this episode' tab is useless/out of date. Most old quests, are, yes, not implemented with existing features. Yes, most don't have quest bubbles above their heads. The developers are half-asses, lazy, whatever. Yay.

 

But more on that first point, about revamping the system from the ground up...

 

Things our quest system needs:

 

- Ability to remove quests from your log altogether (not just make inactive) if the quest is complete or you want to abandon/start over.

- Countdown for time sensitive quests, instead of a 24 hour timestamp.

- Ability to click on NPC or map names in all quests so it auto-navigates to the NPC or map.

- List of reward for quest completion in the quest log.

- Quest history. Instead of deleting and adding a new quest item when you move from one NPC to another, it should work within the same entry and just add to it, so you can scroll up and review the whole thing...

 

Other things that would help you quest:

- Ability to click on any spot on the mini map and make it /navi to it.

 

[Talvis]

Being able to drop quests would be nice.  But quests would have to be restructured.  In the few "modern" mmos I've played each major story quest is technically broken into multiple quests.  Each step is a separate quest which usually gives you a small reward for each step.  When you drop a quest you only drop the most recent step.  In RO the entire quest is one quest and usually you only get a reward at the very last part or a couple select parts in between.  You would have to break each quest up into multiple quests or you could have an exploit in quests that have multiple reward points.  Do quest up to first reward point, drop and retake quest up to first reward point, drop quest repeat.  Then again, I'm not a programmer and I don't know exactly how the coding for quests actually works in RO.

 

A couple things I would like to add to my original post is for the ability to completely remove a quest from the game like temporary event quests.  My quest journal is filled with entries for uncompletable event quests that will just sit there forever.  I know you can send in a ticket to get them removed which I have, but that's an inefficient way to do it.  There also use to be an npc, but that's no longer there.

Don't treat timers as regular journal entries.  either give them a separate place to show or make it so they naturally disappear when the expire.  Timer entries cannot be removed by the gms either from what I've heard.

[Facekiller]

id much rather have seen quests be the main feature in this game... with MVPs as bosses at the end or at least having to complete the quest to have access to various MVPs... most of the quests we do have are kinda meh.. especially for the rewards... but i agree there definitly needs to be fixes... the way rewards are given... the ability to delete quests as needed... the way quests are made so as to not be bottable...

[Necrohealiac]

i do try to do some quests once in a while so I will start keeping track of the entries to see if they are accurate.  Because I found the entries to be often unreliable, I usually just have the wiki guide open if I don't remember certain steps so I haven't been paying attention to what it's saying in game.

 

Off the top of my head, I do not believe the seal quests give any journal entries (i've done 1st, 3rd, and 4th seal quests since coming back to the game).

 

Victoria Quest highlights the npcs that start her spotlighted quests, so it looks like the infrastructure is there as far as guiding people to the proper start points for quests.  It should be possible to have a similar npc permanently in each of the towns who will direct players to the starting npcs for each area's quests.

 

Not awarding any exp most of the time until the player is complete with the entire chain is a little rough with how long some of these quests can be (The Sign or the Kiel Hyrie chains for example).

 

edit: i also find the inability to delete quests very annoying; the work-around i have right now is to just set them to inactive (for example i have some izlude academy quests that never cleared off my log)

Edited by Necrohealiac, 21 July 2014 - 06:53 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

To overhaul the quest system, kRO would need to overhaul RO itself. Would also optimize the game for newer computers and fix underlying issues with the game that we've had to deal with for far too long. Sounds good to me!
 

id much rather have seen quests be the main feature in this game... with MVPs as bosses at the end or at least having to complete the quest to have access to various MVPs... most of the quests we do have are kinda meh.. especially for the rewards... but i agree there definitly needs to be fixes... the way rewards are given... the ability to delete quests as needed... the way quests are made so as to not be bottable...

I kinda rather not. I like how RO isn't quest-based, which gives players more freedom in how they prefer to level and customize their overall experience in RO. For players that want a quest-based game, that's what RO2 is for.

[Facekiller]

To overhaul the quest system, kRO would need to overhaul RO itself. Would also optimize the game for newer computers and fix underlying issues with the game that we've had to deal with for far too long. Sounds good to me!
 

I kinda rather not. I like how RO isn't quest-based, which gives players more freedom in how they prefer to level and customize their overall experience in RO. For players that want a quest-based game, that's what RO2 is for.

 

well the sad part is that the quest part of leveling has been pretty dead since prerenewal... the quests we have now for leveling are less quests and just more grind options...

[Talvis]

id much rather have seen quests be the main feature in this game... with MVPs as bosses at the end or at least having to complete the quest to have access to various MVPs... most of the quests we do have are kinda meh.. especially for the rewards... but i agree there definitly needs to be fixes... the way rewards are given... the ability to delete quests as needed... the way quests are made so as to not be bottable...

I'll have to agree with ZeroTigress on this, I wouldn't want to see RO turned into a mmo where a quest chain hand holds you through the entire game.  But I would love to see the story quests improved to make them useful to do and not just a time waster and dungeon access.

 

i do try to do some quests once in a while so I will start keeping track of the entries to see if they are accurate.  Because I found the entries to be often unreliable, I usually just have the wiki guide open if I don't remember certain steps so I haven't been paying attention to what it's saying in game.

 

Off the top of my head, I do not believe the seal quests give any journal entries (i've done 1st, 3rd, and 4th seal quests since coming back to the game).

 

Victoria Quest highlights the npcs that start her spotlighted quests, so it looks like the infrastructure is there as far as guiding people to the proper start points for quests.  It should be possible to have a similar npc permanently in each of the towns who will direct players to the starting npcs for each area's quests.

 

Not awarding any exp most of the time until the player is complete with the entire chain is a little rough with how long some of these quests can be (The Sign or the Kiel Hyrie chains for example).

 

edit: i also find the inability to delete quests very annoying; the work-around i have right now is to just set them to inactive (for example i have some izlude academy quests that never cleared off my log)

The quest journal entries could be more helpful.  I would personally like them to make the journal entries and perhaps npc dialog a bit more blunt.  A person shouldn't have to rely on wiki guides to find out what they're supposed to do.  The most recent update to the quest system allows for certain quest markers.  At least ones for starting quests anyway.  Sadly, the only way to get rid of journal entries in game is to make them inactive.

 

To overhaul the quest system, kRO would need to overhaul RO itself. Would also optimize the game for newer computers and fix underlying issues with the game that we've had to deal with for far too long. Sounds good to me!
 

I kinda rather not. I like how RO isn't quest-based, which gives players more freedom in how they prefer to level and customize their overall experience in RO. For players that want a quest-based game, that's what RO2 is for.

Sadly the kRO devs are too lazy for this.  Even if they actually did this, it would probably be years before we got it.

 

 

There are a lot of good story quest, but for a new person who doesn't know much about this game, they wont even know they exist.  There is no indication that these quests even exist.  New people either have to check fan sites or read through all the update pages on the home page.  This is one reason why all old quests should be updated to include the quest marker.  I remember I found my first story quite by accident.  I can't remember which one it was >.<

 

Edited by Talvis, 21 July 2014 - 03:12 PM.

[belld1711]

Here's my take on the quest system: It sucks. It's in desperate need of an overhaul.

 

The quest window is in need of attention, as previously mentioned.

The timers need to be fixed, as previously mentioned.

The older rewards should be adjusted to Renewal standards, and should give proper rewards for work done, as previously mentioned.

Also, the "ghosts" of events past need to be fixed. I've mentioned them before in another thread. (I still say we should be able to turn in the Undelivered gifts that drop while wearing the Antonio set to the existing NPC in Lutie, btw)

 

There's also two other things that bugs me: The lack of quests that do NOT have cool down timers and quests with level limits (or are too difficult/impossible for characters currently at that limit). Some times, you come across an event that you like doing. But then...ah, damn. You gotta wait an hour, a day or even a week to do it again. That sucks so badly. Yeah, if we're talking ET or some other instance, then yeah. Also, having a cooldown on quests that have a headgear or other expensive reward, or high amount of exp, then cool. By all means, add a cooldown. But what about a quest that gives mediocre exp, and/or weak drops, like a single obb? Hell, if there are item requirements, just farming those items would take time. Let THAT be the cool down. I'm so sick of item farming though. I'd like to see more quests like the dragon hat quest. Go here, do this, go there, find that thing, then *maybe* fight an ultra-weak form of an existing MVP or something. I like doing things on other characters besides my main. Give me something to do! Something that's fun, not repetitive, that I can do on a level 30. Not just these quests for level 100+. And don't make me have to wait to do it again...

 

Talvis mentioned breaking up quests into smaller parts. I do not agree with this. It would cause people to exploit some of the quests. Say there's a quest that gives an OCA or a good amount of EXP after certain parts. People would exploit that. They'd do that and level for as long as they could, or farm enough OCAs to render them literally worthless. That, plus being able to "erase" your progress in a quest like that after getting some of the rewards would be a way of by-passing any cooldown periods. Not a good idea. Although long, some of these quests (like the seal quests) have a story to tell. It would make no sense to allow people to stop a story in the middle after being given a reward for participating just to start over again.

[Necrohealiac]

Talvis mentioned breaking up quests into smaller parts. I do not agree with this. It would cause people to exploit some of the quests. Say there's a quest that gives an OCA or a good amount of EXP after certain parts. People would exploit that. They'd do that and level for as long as they could, or farm enough OCAs to render them literally worthless. That, plus being able to "erase" your progress in a quest like that after getting some of the rewards would be a way of by-passing any cooldown periods. Not a good idea. Although long, some of these quests (like the seal quests) have a story to tell. It would make no sense to allow people to stop a story in the middle after being given a reward for participating just to start over again.

 

would you be opposed to quests giving a exp throughout the portions of the chain as opposed to one large chunk at the end?  say you start the sign quest or something at a low level, and don't complete till you are high enough to survive in niff.

[ZeroTigress]

Modern MMORPGs usually give EXP after each step in a quest chain and only give out items at the very last quest in the chain. This is what RO desperately needs instead of the current quests only giving EXP at the very last step. Giving out EXP during the quest is necessary to help players get through the quest. With how quests are currently set up in RO, players would rather reach the level cap and then start questing rather than quest in order to reach the level cap. (Not to mention all the old quests with certain minimum level requirements are no longer doable at the minimum level requirements.)

[Campitor]

Modern MMORPGs usually give EXP after each step in a quest chain and only give out items at the very last quest in the chain. This is what RO desperately needs instead of the current quests only giving EXP at the very last step. Giving out EXP during the quest is necessary to help players get through the quest. With how quests are currently set up in RO, players would rather reach the level cap and then start questing rather than quest in order to reach the level cap. (Not to mention all the old quests with certain minimum level requirements are no longer doable at the minimum level requirements.)

It is something we can do however I am not sure if it is ideal in the RO culture. Since users tend to use battle manuals to increase their EXP rewards at the end of quests. Making the quests give exp in smaller chunks throughout, would cause more manuals to be used for the same amount of reward.

[Talvis]

It is something we can do however I am not sure if it is ideal in the RO culture. Since users tend to use battle manuals to increase their EXP rewards at the end of quests. Making the quests give exp in smaller chunks throughout, would cause more manuals to be used for the same amount of reward.

What about making sure all quests are fully compatible with the new quest window and use quest markers like the newest quests have?

[ZeroTigress]

It is something we can do however I am not sure if it is ideal in the RO culture. Since users tend to use battle manuals to increase their EXP rewards at the end of quests. Making the quests give exp in smaller chunks throughout, would cause more manuals to be used for the same amount of reward.

But that's how it works in RO2 and they have Battle Manuals as well... <<

Edited by ZeroTigress, 28 July 2014 - 08:29 PM.

[belld1711]

would you be opposed to quests giving a exp throughout the portions of the chain as opposed to one large chunk at the end?  say you start the sign quest or something at a low level, and don't complete till you are high enough to survive in niff.

 

 

Modern MMORPGs usually give EXP after each step in a quest chain and only give out items at the very last quest in the chain. This is what RO desperately needs instead of the current quests only giving EXP at the very last step. Giving out EXP during the quest is necessary to help players get through the quest. With how quests are currently set up in RO, players would rather reach the level cap and then start questing rather than quest in order to reach the level cap. (Not to mention all the old quests with certain minimum level requirements are no longer doable at the minimum level requirements.)

 

No, I wouldn't be opposed to this idea (I actually like it) as long as the chain can't be broken (unless the ability is intended, like being able to use a reset stone to clear your seal quests' progress despite only having two or three done). Also, if anything great is given, like equipment, this comes after the end or right before a part where it might be needed, like a headgear that is needed to fight a certain (instanced/unique?) monster/boss that would act like a poring headpin or some such on all other maps.

 

It is something we can do however I am not sure if it is ideal in the RO culture. Since users tend to use battle manuals to increase their EXP rewards at the end of quests. Making the quests give exp in smaller chunks throughout, would cause more manuals to be used for the same amount of reward.

 

You forgot the word "most". I don't usually use BMs. I do random quests to have something to do. I used two BMs on the Juno boards to get my Paladin from level 96 to 99. IMO, this idea is a good one, as long as it can't be abused. It'll give people something to do. Not all quests need to be laid out like that, just a couple here or there, I s'pose...

[ZeroTigress]

No, I wouldn't be opposed to this idea (I actually like it) as long as the chain can't be broken (unless the ability is intended, like being able to use a reset stone to clear your seal quests' progress despite only having two or three done). Also, if anything great is given, like equipment, this comes after the end or right before a part where it might be needed, like a headgear that is needed to fight a certain (instanced/unique?) monster/boss that would act like a poring headpin or some such on all other maps.

Quest chains don't work like that in modern MMORPGs. You can't abandon a quest unless you're in the process of doing it and even then you're only resetting that particular quest in the chain. There's no way to reset a whole quest chain. If you want to do a quest chain again, you'd have to create a whole new character to do the same quest chain.

[belld1711]

Quest chains don't work like that in modern MMORPGs. You can't abandon a quest unless you're in the process of doing it and even then you're only resetting that particular quest in the chain. There's no way to reset a whole quest chain. If you want to do a quest chain again, you'd have to create a whole new character to do the same quest chain.

 

...which is kind of why what works in other MMO's won't necessarily work on this game. Look at GW. Just about the entire PvM portion of the game is a chain. But you can only have one account per copy of the game purchased. Sure, you can delete and recreate characters, but it'd be a complete pain to keep doing that to farm something half way through the game.

 

RO on the other hand this is a game where 99% of all players seem to have multiple WP accounts, never mind RO accounts. It's so easy to make yet another account and have a handful of novices ready to abuse quests with no/low level requirements, and with the jump event in a while ago, it's not uncommon to have a handful of characters ready to abuse quests with higher level requirements.

 

Besides, I'd like more repeatable quests. Ones with no cooldown. I'm really not worried about rewards, like I've said before, I just want some more stuff to do.

[ZeroTigress]

...which is kind of why what works in other MMO's won't necessarily work on this game. Look at GW. Just about the entire PvM portion of the game is a chain. But you can only have one account per copy of the game purchased. Sure, you can delete and recreate characters, but it'd be a complete pain to keep doing that to farm something half way through the game.
 
RO on the other hand this is a game where 99% of all players seem to have multiple WP accounts, never mind RO accounts. It's so easy to make yet another account and have a handful of novices ready to abuse quests with no/low level requirements, and with the jump event in a while ago, it's not uncommon to have a handful of characters ready to abuse quests with higher level requirements.
 
Besides, I'd like more repeatable quests. Ones with no cooldown. I'm really not worried about rewards, like I've said before, I just want some more stuff to do.

I was more referring to the lore quests, in which earning EXP as you go is necessary to get through the tougher portions. Repeatable quests are a different story since they're not usually part of long chains. No one really farms the lore quests in RO since the rewards are not that great to begin with so I'm not quite sure I understand how you think they're abusable. Aside from the Eden Group quests, Gramps TIs, and my Bounty Boards, no one really quests to level up in RO.

[belld1711]

I was more referring to the lore quests, in which earning EXP as you go is necessary to get through the tougher portions. Repeatable quests are a different story since they're not usually part of long chains. No one really farms the lore quests in RO since the rewards are not that great to begin with so I'm not quite sure I understand how you think they're abusable. Aside from the Eden Group quests, Gramps TIs, and my Bounty Boards, no one really quests to level up in RO.

 

Sorry, for some reason, I thought you were suggesting making new quests to use this idea on. And the abused quests I had in mind were the event quests or spotlight events, where bots congregate.

[ZeroTigress]

Sorry, for some reason, I thought you were suggesting making new quests to use this idea on. And the abused quests I had in mind were the event quests or spotlight events, where bots congregate.

No idea why you would think that considering the thread is about overhauling the quest system itself.

Anything simpler than a quest chain and not have a high level requirement is bound to be botted, unfortunately.