23 replies to this topic

[Cleftobismal]

Ello all, so far, I'm no one. I've been wondering about something for a bit; While both of the classes I'm going to mention are super duper strong. I am not sure which one can deliver damage in a long term fight or even a short term. Anyone care to help deliberate with me on this? :<? 

 

 

 

So the first class is going to be ofc, the FOTM. 

 

 

Priest

 

 

 

 

The second class will be:

 

 

Wizard

 

 

 

 

 

Personally I haven't payed much attention to these two classes in terms of DPS'ing. (More like I don't want to, they erradicate their targets when left alone) 

 

 

 

And so, I would like to ask. /o/

 

 

 

 

\o\ Who's better at dps'ing in these situations  /o/

 

 

 

AOE'ing Mobs. [General Mobs, Adds]

 

 

Single Target Fights. [Bosses]

 

 

 

 

PvP its a given. I'm not going to even go into that nor ask. /o/

 

 

 

And when I mean better, I mean taking down the following situation's ^ as quickly as possible.  /o/

 

 

 

 

Care To Help Me With Your Experiences? :<?

 

 

Edit: Remove The Self Sustaining Abilities from your thought process.  And yes they are both soloing. :< 

Edited by Cleftobismal, 22 July 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Cleftobismal]

Snip~

 

 

Not really looking for who can survive more or information about warriors.

 

But thank you for your quick feedback. ^^

 

 

 

And yes I want a honest clear cut answer, rather they have skills to ignore defense or not.  If it's off of a biased situation where you observe someone I can't really take that as an good answer. You must have personal experience with these classes with some data. /o/  Otherwise I wouldn't need the help. lelz 

Edited by Cleftobismal, 22 July 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[Sirceye]

[Baddiez]

Intra p2w noob

[Cleftobismal]

 \o\ Can we stick on the subject please? I'm not looking for a troll. Good or not. /o/

[mysticalre]

the best way to compare DPS is to try vs. the scarecrows in prontera arena

 

put 2 people beside each other with equal tier gear, 1 person per scarecrow (~1.1m hp?), and race each other...

[Baddiez]

You also have to take into account stat distribution skills distribution what skills they prioritize in their rotation etc etc. 

The only class I have NEVER been able to out dps(i'm a ranger) is wizard.

Edited by Baddiez, 22 July 2014 - 07:53 PM.

[Cleftobismal]

the best way to compare DPS is to try vs. the scarecrows in prontera arena

 

put 2 people beside each other with equal tier gear, 1 person per scarecrow (~1.1m hp?), and race each other...

 

\o\ If it was that easy, I wouldn't of made this thread. /o/

 

You also have to take into account stat distribution skills distribution what skills they prioritize in their rotation etc etc. 

The only class I have NEVER been able to out dps(i'm a ranger) is wizard.

 

Well I am asking for those with experience [Not Of A Ranger]. I appreciate what your trying to point across but at this time I would like to leave the answering to the people who know about it. Thank you. ^^

Edited by Cleftobismal, 22 July 2014 - 07:59 PM.

[Cleftobismal]

Smexy Snip~

 

 

 

\o\ Too Biased and Inconclusive. I can't fall up on this. Sorry. /o/

Edited by Cleftobismal, 22 July 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[Tonitrua]

Another thing to consider for your question: are you assuming both players are fighting things solo, or in a party/raid situation? In a raid with 2 wizards and 2 priests for example, the combined dps of the 2 wizards will far exceed the combined dps of the 2 priests because the priests cannot both apply separate DoTs to the enemy.

 

Unfortunately I can't answer the question for 1 priest compared to 1 wizard since I haven't played priest since pre-AoV days, and with seed runes it's much harder to make a fair comparison just by observing other priests in something like a chaos raid, however wizards used to have higher DPS than priests. That may not hold true at the moment, you'll have to wait for someone else to chime in, or maybe find some volunteers to help conduct a test.

[Baddiez]

\o\ If it was that easy, I wouldn't of made this thread. /o/

 

 

Well I am asking for those with experience [Not Of A Ranger]. I appreciate what your trying to point across but at this time I would like to leave the answering to the people who know about it. Thank you. ^^

 

I guess you don't get what I'm triyng to say nvm. Gl getting answers.

[Cleftobismal]

I guess you don't get what I'm triyng to say nvm. Gl getting answers.

Nope. Ty /o/

 

Snip~

 I'm sorry I guess I wasn't too clear. Edited.

 

 

Yes both are soloing.  :<

[xMagik]

Another thing to consider for your question: are you assuming both players are fighting things solo, or in a party/raid situation? In a raid with 2 wizards and 2 priests for example, the combined dps of the 2 wizards will far exceed the combined dps of the 2 priests because the priests cannot both apply separate DoTs to the enemy.

 

Unfortunately I can't answer the question for 1 priest compared to 1 wizard since I haven't played priest since pre-AoV days, and with seed runes it's much harder to make a fair comparison just by observing other priests in something like a chaos raid, however wizards used to have higher DPS than priests. That may not hold true at the moment, you'll have to wait for someone else to chime in, or maybe find some volunteers to help conduct a test.

 

does the DoT from fireball stack? 

[Tonitrua]

does the DoT from fireball stack? 

 

Only one fireball DoT can be active at once, but because the wizard's DoT provides a much smaller fraction of their total DPS when compared to priest, it won't have as large of an impact overall.

[Telovi]

AOE'ing Mobs. [General Mobs, Adds]

 

Priest. 

In terms of range and damage MeteorStorm is better than MagnusExorcismus,, but MS' s long damage registering process denies any movement and skill changing until you're done with it , while ME's short damage registering not only allows snappier Assumptio recast, you could also move freely. Most importantly, Wizard's AoE+DoT is pathetic compare to Priest's and MeteorStorm have cast time while MagnusExorcismus have none. 

 

Single Target Fights. [Bosses]

 

Wizard. 

This one is tight because you're comparing Priest's raw damage output to Wizard's potential damage output. When it comes to single target elimination, Priest  do that effortlessly. But since you're asking which class could bring down a boss swiftly, then Wizard that is in my opinion and I based it on the latency that may occurs in between skill rotating as that affects more when dealing with bigger health points target. Generally a Priest's ideal skills rotation would be spam MagnusExorcismus when RayOfGenesis is under cooldown and reapply all 3 DoT when they're over. That's a 5-skills rotation which means more latency especially with Oratio since I noticed any skill after it always took noticeable longer time to execute. As for Wizard's ideal skills rotation; spam FireBolt, only use FireBall when there is instant proc, and only release FireExplosion when Pyromanic almost reset, that would looks like a 3-skills rotation but most of the times only FireBolt is used and hence less latency. My assumption could be false, though, when I say one critical FireBall's DoT from Wizard equals to three DoT running in parallel from Priest. And of course only in near if not identical overall stats. 

 

.........the classes I'm going to mention........super duper strong..... Wizard.......

 

Super duper strong? Exactly a year ago wiz was just a int buff slave and equivalent to that wis stat. The hell Gravity had done to this class?

[lokasenna]

I have both, but I main wiz. I just want to make it clear that in the end it will depend on the player and situation, but assuming equal gear, seeds and skill:

AOE: MS hits harder and more but it roots you in place and has a pretty long casting animation. ME casts fast and is more mobile. It will depend if one AOE can kill the mobs/adds. Personally an Aspersio'd ME is better because Oratio is a thing lol.

Single target: Wizard. Last time I checked (admittedly a long while ago, I have not tried this with a fully-refined Bible, so please feel free to correct me), a crit Fireball does give more or less the same DoT as all three priest DoTs, not counting the actual damage from the Fireball itself. While RoG is more powerful than Flame Exposion, you can build stacks of Pyromaniac faster and force crit of all FE hits with Seal Explosion. And if you've maxed the fire tree out can basically spam procs of firebolt/fireball every ten seconds. Priests have better buffs but wizards can cast more and do higher damage spells. (Which is kind of the point of a DPS class. But that's another topic.)

But again it depends on the situation. If you're mobbing/taking aggro on adds a wizard may lose DPS because they need to have Water Seal on, whereas a priest would just need to reno themselves, that kind of thing. Pre-AoV though, even a full battle priest would not be able to match the PVE DPS of a wizard.

Super duper strong? Exactly a year ago wiz was just a int buff slave and equivalent to that wis stat. The hell Gravity had done to this class?

pls, we're just still walking int buffs. Like I would literally get invited to a party, asked to buff them, then get kicked. Mfw

[Telovi]

pls, we're just still walking int buffs. Like I would literally get invited to a party, asked to buff them, then get kicked. Mfw

 

I share the same experience before, in my case most them asked for my int buff during colo hours even random guys whispered me back then. Good times.

[Cleftobismal]

Thank you all for the responses (In thread & PM box)

 

 

So far ive been getting from the majority:

 

 

 

 Aoe Situations:  Magnus Exo = Top Damaging Aoe In The Game (Needs Clarification)

 

 

Single Target:  Short Term Fights ==> Priests   Long Term ===> Wizards

 

 

 

At this point, I'd say nerf priests dps capabilities. (Skills or Equipment Balance Related). 

 

\o\ And give Wizards more practical skills to have. /o/   [

 

Perhaps Storm Gust for more CC capabilities and Damage.

 

Waterball for a water wizard variant dps. (Wizards shouldn't be stuck with one set of skills)

 

Or Perhaps they could introduce the earth spells like Quagmire for CC/Debuff capabilities (It's an trolling aoe, in RO1 it cancels Certain buffs in PvP)

 

And Earthspike for another deathly aoe. /o/  

 

 

 

Now wizards still needs balancing, I don't wish to op it by adding another selections of skills. But its just my two cents about it. It's not the norm for a MMO to force a wizard to be stuck on one element. ( IE: RO2) 

 

 

 

Edited by Cleftobismal, 23 July 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[lokasenna]

Well VCRs have long been trying to make Wizard non-useless (as it is, the only reason to take one on a raid is for Dragonology, and ohhh man if you're thinking about pvp let's not even go there) but so far... Nothing. Haha. Take a look at the VCR report threads, Priests have also been pushing for a nerf, but for some reason they only get buffed.

[Telovi]

Thank you all for the responses (In thread & PM box)

 

 

So far ive been getting from the majority:

 

 

 

 Aoe Situations:  Magnus Exo = Top Damaging Aoe In The Game (Needs Clarification)

 

 

Single Target:  Short Term Fights ==> Priests   Long Term ===> Wizards

 

 

 

At this point, I'd say nerf priests dps capabilities. (Skills or Equipment Balance Related). 

 

\o\ And give Wizards more practical skills to have. /o/   [

 

Perhaps Storm Gust for more CC capabilities and Damage.

 

Waterball for a water wizard variant dps. (Wizards shouldn't be stuck with one set of skills)

 

Or Perhaps they could introduce the earth spells like Quagmire for CC/Debuff capabilities (It's an trolling aoe, in RO1 it cancels Certain buffs in PvP)

 

And Earthspike for another deathly aoe. /o/  

 

 

 

Now wizards still needs balancing, I don't wish to op it by adding another selections of skills. But its just my two cents about it. It's not the norm for a MMO to force a wizard to be stuck on one element. ( IE: RO2) 

 

 

I think Wizard is doing fine now. If you reached out to the water and the wind sides of wiz skill tree, you'll clearly see why sticking to fiame-animated skills wasn't so bad, and introducing new skills was just for the sake of living up to the name as a successor game. Max Teleport+Leviathan lets you move faster than sin (both windless) and IceWall gave you immunity like bear's feral defense. With current thin PVE contents, it's understandable why wiz appears so helpless. I personally think Gravity did Wizard a solid by improving their FireBall, as prowess was the missing pieces of wiz before aov.

 

Seriously, classes during pre-aov was as imbalance as it's now if not more.The only thing saving the developer's ears was their thick PVE contents that had successfully made their broken PVP less transparent. There's a two figures pages thread somewhere in this forum, though, that discussed the unfairness between melee and ranged class. I wouldn't be surprised if Gravity suddenly decide to revert back to pre-aov system just to end current imbalance issues. 

 

 

(I don't know about you guys, I rather being knocked down by boss than player)

 

Well VCRs have long been trying to make Wizard non-useless (as it is, the only reason to take one on a raid is for Dragonology, and ohhh man if you're thinking about pvp let's not even go there) but so far... Nothing. Haha. Take a look at the VCR report threads, Priests have also been pushing for a nerf, but for some reason they only get buffed.

 

It's possible that Gravity had never heard of Battle Priest and misjudge them as a lower tier. I see this whole AoV crap as bringing lower tier classes up to pace with other higher tier classes. Meaning those lower tier wouldn't require help from higher tier, or pile of money, to reach their own classes full potential.

 

The result was quite visible during my own observation in colo before it becames a walking park, There were more melee classes inside especially during the final round compare to a year ago where most of the time all six of them were ranged and belong to 3 classes.

 

Still, the developer really need to clean up their own mess and play their own game more often. 

Edited by Telovi, 24 July 2014 - 12:10 AM.

[AhinaReyoh]

I think Wizard is doing fine now. If you reached out to the water and the wind sides of wiz skill tree, you'll clearly see why sticking to fiame-animated skills wasn't so bad, and introducing new skills was just for the sake of living up to the name as a successor game. Max Teleport+Leviathan lets you move faster than sin (both windless) and IceWall gave you immunity like bear's feral defense. With current thin PVE contents, it's understandable why wiz appears so helpless. I personally think Gravity did Wizard a solid by improving their FireBall, as prowess was the missing pieces of wiz before aov.

 

 

I think you're overstating just how good Levitation and Ice Wall are. Levitation is easily replaced by Wind Elixirs for a more reliable movement boost, and Ice Wall is highly situational due to its terrible cooldown and being a stationary target. You can even be killed while Ice Wall is on because of how damage works in this game, heh.

 

And of course Sorcerers can use Fireball just as well as a Wizard, they just trade in the extra damage of Flame Explosion for an array of support skills that make them more party viable. (Compared to the Wizard who has mostly situational skills.)

[Telovi]

I think you're overstating just how good Levitation and Ice Wall are. Levitation is easily replaced by Wind Elixirs for a more reliable movement boost, and Ice Wall is highly situational due to its terrible cooldown and being a stationary target. You can even be killed while Ice Wall is on because of how damage works in this game, heh.

 

And of course Sorcerers can use Fireball just as well as a Wizard, they just trade in the extra damage of Flame Explosion for an array of support skills that make them more party viable. (Compared to the Wizard who has mostly situational skills.)

 

I disagree with Wizard's skills being situational, for me they're optional. I rely on max Teleport+Leviathan to escape boss' AoE, and keep IceWall for emergency like, when my Teleport is still in cooldown with a life-threatening AoE incoming that sure can't be cheated with potion. Now that you had mentioned Wind Elixir, I will have another option to chose. I don't see anything wrong with having some options that I can fall back to in case things turned ugly. But I agree with IceWall not doing its job properly. It does costs me some life, and in return I found a way around it. Quite simple really, you just need to use IceWall when the boss AoE mark is still on, not when it's off, otherwise the damage will be registered along with your ice-covered body. As for PVP, I timed my IceWall for the second attack, never for the first, but as disable and oneshot being essential parts as they're now, using it is like doing a comedy gag. 

 

Exactly. Sorcerer had a more diverse skill tree than Wizard, and if only they aren't being too cozy with their wind tree, there are many wicked build that can be experimented. But that doesn't means Wizard's skill tree isn't interesting. Before AoV, I had tried max WindSeal+Pyromanic boosted with max SealExplosion build, just to measure dick with Ranger. The result was predictable but I had fun, and that the point. Wizard ain't boring. 

[AhinaReyoh]

Optional sounds about the same as situational, neither of which is the ideal outlook on skills. Players shouldn't be looking at a skill tree and thinking "meh, they're optional." They should see skills that are obviously useful, and have to debate which ones to spend points on.

[Telovi]

You're right about how skills' usability should be total transparent to a player. But unless that player has actually tried them, or has received explanations from other players that had used them, those skills will remain as niche skills. And my last couple of posts were aimed at saying they're not for any starter Wizard, or still-deciding Magician, that care.

 

I guess I lacked consistency.