17 replies to this topic

[Jaeger00]

I just began playing 3 days ago.
I'm 36 atm and usual routine of reading the forums whenever I'm bored questing to 50.

With all the hype for Battle Tactics Warr/IntCrit, are there other warrior who build the usual STR/AGI/VIT stat?
'Cause I have the INT Build right now but I'm planning to break off with the usual Warrior Build here.
Plus, I don't feel like the Int build is good atm because I'm not at ML.

Edited by Jaeger00, 29 July 2014 - 04:59 AM.

[jdmtouch]

int is not a good build early lvls, its only good end game so yes your idea is correct.

[Jaeger00]

So what do you think? Should I use my Stat Reset Vellum?
Currently, I have 2STR, 35AGI, 10INT

 

[rzevidz007]

Just wait for it until you reach higher levels or possibly until you reached the cap. Then you use it.

[Jaeger00]

Ayt thanks for the reply.

Any good stats for Tank/Semi-DPS warr?

 

 

[rzevidz007]

Unfortunately, the most important advantage that Warrior (and swordsmen in general) have is their Battle Tactics, which means people play Warrior now because of its damage output. As raids are all jokes in the current state, tank builds are almost extinct as you can easily survive with just a hybrid build. I got your feel too though, Warriors were supposed to be tanks but they are now just taken just because Wars deals a ton of damage.

 

But if you really wanted to build a tank Warrior, put all your stats to VIT for HP. I would recommend you to get Endure and Parrying just to maximize your tanking capability, don't forget Defender though! That is all from me.

 

 

EDIT: Oh yeah one more thing, just a protip and a suggestion for you. If you really wanted to build a tank class that badly, play other tanking class just because they have more HP and other tanking mechanics than Warrior. For one, I really recommend you to play BM because the devs themselves have said that they will revamp the class to enhance their role in main tanking. As for now, BM's HP is just out of the world and they can self-heal up to 30% HP in one skill and only costs 30 Beast Power. If you happen to have 100 BP, that's 90% self-heal in one go although it is not recommended to do so. Damage is still good with its high attack power and min-max attack power. They still benefit from the high VIT bonus, making it also bulky but isn't bulkier as Knights and Monks. Even so, who wouldn't want the highest HP in-game and also capable on self-healing up to 30% (read: thirty percentages!) in one shot. Dayum o.o

 

Secondly, Monks. They are also great tanker with the highest DEF in-game for now and decent HP, third best of 4 tankers. You would want to take Monk if you are more of a DEF dude than a HP dude, although they are now at the disadvantages now as DEF can easily achieved through gears enhancements.

 

Thirdly, Knights. Of course, they were often picked as a MT and will always be. Now their shields reduces any damage taken by certain %. Their HP is second best too! Knights can also the skill that almost all other classes hated, the Battle Tactics, like Warrior, so Knights are capable on doing heavy damage but also bulky as hell. Main downside of the class is that Knights are often kited easily.

 

Sorry for the wall of post though, just wanted to shoot out all my thoughts on the current state of the game. haha. 

Edited by rzevidz007, 29 July 2014 - 07:16 AM.

[Greven79]

I totally agree with you rzevids007.

 

I am playing a Warrior for over a year now and he always had a tank build. But due to Battle Tactics, there are many Warriors out there and since highest damage = highest threat = main tank, it's hard not to go the same route.

 

Just made a little test to be more precise:

+75 VIT pot => +4% more HP

+75 AGI pot => +0.4% crit chance

+75 STR pot => +50 on physical skill effect => a 2% increase

+75 INT pot => +30% crit. damage => with 33% crit. chance = ~10% damage increase on average.

 

It's really that simple!

 

Now everyone can judge by himself, if Battle Tactics is inbalanced and if he would choose a tank build over a BT-build.

 

Edited by Greven79, 30 July 2014 - 12:31 AM.

[jhay1825]

Battle Tactics was originally an end game skill that was meant for Level 50 players which needed the resources to produce those int even before LoTs era.
And if you guys remember, those int-agi-vit cards are super expensive back at those times which is why not everyone could pull off BT build.
( I had to sell my soul to get my cards back then. ;_; )

But yeah anyways, its always advisable to go for str when youre still leveling coz its where your damage mostly comes from. Also your gears couldnt provide the stats you need YET! Which also makes int build on early levels useless since you dont have enough crit rate and int yet.

[Greven79]

Battle Tactics was originally an end game skill that was meant for Level 50 players which needed the resources to produce those int even before LoTs era.

 

I wouldn't call it "meant for lvl 50 players", but rather "abused by lvl 50 players".

 

Originally, costumes had no rune slots and only RHD gear / Bapho gear was truly balanced for lvl 50 classes. However, since the devs didn't increase the level cap, crit. chance got out of control later (CoA, AoD, Chaos). Only the combination of all this made Battle Tactics really "interesting".

 

But you're right in that way that BT is a bad design and really, really useless for low-level characters.

 

Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 11:48 AM.

[Jaeger00]

Thanks for all the replies!
So at most, what level does BT come effective?

[Greven79]

Hard to say.

 

My Warrior was already lvl 50, before they've changed things.

But my bet would be that it starts to make sense with master levels only.

 

My advise to you  Don't use the stat reset vellum at all!

 

I bet your current damage is mainly determined by your weapon damage, not your stats. Test this by comparing the physical skill effect with and without your weapon. My ratio is 40% stats, 60% weapon.

Even if I could double my STR, that's only +40% damage. 10% more STR => +4% damage.

 

Later on, honing can give you 60+ INT per gear part. That means the stat points you've already allocated don't bother that much.

 

All in all, you should do well until lvl 50 no matter how your stats are.

Later, honing, refinement & runes (this order) will define your power by most parts.

 

Only if you want to squeeze the absolute maximum out of your char, you can THEN use the stat reset vellum for the 1% extra push.

Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[Jaeger00]

+1 to you sir. Thanks for the insights.
Until what percentage is the Parry limit?

 

[rzevidz007]

Some said 70%, others said that there is no cap or limit. 

Well it we can't really do anything though as there are reports that you need over a mil (1.000.000 that's right) Parry to be able to reach the limit. That's impossible for goodness sake.. rather, possible only for GMs. Hahaha..

 

Answering your previous question, BT comes effective when you have the moneh to gear yourself. I suggest you to do so when you reach the level cap.

No joking, I'm dead serious.

 

What you'll need: High-end card sets with tons of INT, honing to get INT (may cost you multiple attempt to get some good values..), lots of buff foods to enhance your stats, whatever you can possess to increase INT is some serious factors to increase your damage via BT. Until then you can reach an average of 500+ INT to make BT show its power. Don't forget to stack AGI also as it increases your critical chance.

[Greven79]

To make Battle Tactics useful doesn't really require that much money. As I'll show in a moment, even with 0 INT to start with, allocating your statpoints in INT can be more effective than anything else and that should be true for ML1 gear as well. Money defines only how much you can abuse this inbalance!

 

It's also a discussion about the 'don't forget to stack AGI' comment.

 

My pot example simplified things a bit: +1% crit. chance isn't always a +1% final DPS increase, it depends on the critical damage and the starting crit. chance.

 

Critical chance:

To keep it simple on this part, let's assume 0 INT (the pure 100% bonus on crit. damage):

 

10% crit chance = +10% damage

20% crit chance = +20% damage

...

90% crit chance = +90% damage

100% crit chance = +100% damage

 

Although the 'results' are true, they 'hide' a simple fact: The damage bonus is compared to a 0% crit. chance. But the higher your bonus already is, the less effective any further bonuses gets.

 

If you already have a 90% crit. chance, another 10% don't mean your total damage (the big yellow numbers) go up by +10%. They only change by ~5% ((200 / 190) -1).

 

Critical damage:

The same is true for the bonus to crit. damage. The higher your bonus already is, the less effective a further bonuses gets.

 

If you have a constant 10% crit. chance f.e.,  to raise your crit. damage from +900% to +1000% will only result a ~5% DPS increase.

 

AGI vs. INT:

That means that generally spoken, raising INT endlessly will become less and less useful and the same is true for AGI. However the question still is, which stat is 'usually' more effective.

 

Because you percentual DPS bonus depends on both crit. chance AND crit. damage, a more precise result of my pot example is (using my 33% crit. chance)

 

+75 INT (+30% more crit. damage)

0 INT before (100% crit. bonus) => final DPS increase = 7,45%

1000 INT before (500% crit. bonus) => final DPS increase = 3,75%

 

+75 AGI (+0,4% more crit. chance)

0 INT before (100% crit. bonus) => final DPS increase = 0,3%

1000 INT before (500% crit. bonus) = final DPS increase = 0,75%

 

Even with 1000 INT, any additional point in INT would increase the final DPS rate (= threat) much more than AGI ever would. (I guess it would take like 7k INT to balance it)

 

So choosing AGI over INT is for PvP reasons. You forgo a higher damage output, because 'finisher' skills do more than enough damage to kill a target and any additional damage would be lost. But if you want to choose a pure DPS build, you can't get enough INT.

 

Well, since this was about AGI vs. INT, I haven't discussed STR & Hit here.

 

A funny side note:

The developers punish the players twice: Not only do you get an decreasing benefit from the same x% crit chance the higher your starting value is, you also have to spend more and more points in AGI to achieve the same crit. chance bonus.

 

Edited by Greven79, 06 August 2014 - 12:01 PM.

[LuBuFengXian]

YOU DARE NOT WANT TO TAKE BATTLE TACTICS?  ARRGGGHHH MY SPIRIT WILL HAUNT YOU FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE AND I WILL SMASH YOUR HEAD IN WITH MY OVER 9000 CRITS

 

[Telovi]

YOU DARE NOT WANT TO TAKE BATTLE TACTICS?  ARRGGGHHH MY SPIRIT WILL HAUNT YOU FROM BEYOND THE GRAVE AND I WILL SMASH YOUR HEAD IN WITH MY OVER 9000 CRITS

 

[deathdelete]

Wtf the ghost of of lubu @_@

Edited by deathdelete, 24 August 2014 - 05:09 PM.

[jdmtouch]

LUBU OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR