43 replies to this topic

[Xellie]

Lets try having this discussion.

 

Autopot or "hp management programs" are extremely widespread throughout the game at this stage. They come in all sorts of forms, many of which do things more unsavoury than just fill up missing hp/sp.

 

I know that many, many reports have been sent and of those no bans have been heard of.

 

I understand that it's a ridiculously difficult thing to enforce (more so than nodelay) - because the programs tend to work only on certain maps, or up to certain % ages of HP, could be mistaken for a fast reacting player, have on/off options etc.

 

There's also the speed at which an autopot program can pot. That does not actually give it away either, people can use a macro hotkeykey to spam their hp item button, or just /q1 /q2 their potions on the mousewheel.

 

There are a few different types of players in my guild, there are those who abhor any such program as it alters the way in which the game is played. There are those who would use it just because others do / it's not banned for and there are a couple of individuals who think it would improve the game as it allows focus elsewhere.

I actually did a survey of my guildmembers a few months ago to figure out where they all stand. I didn't tell them my perspective on it, as I didn't want to bias it.

 

Now, do they use autopot? Some probably do. I have had guildmembers directly ASK me for autopot. I am in ownership of an abundance of these programs, sent to me by people asking me to report XYZ guild that they are in/were in or "wow how do we fight this?".

And I never know what to tell those people whom ask me.

First of all many of those programs have other features built in that are a no-no. (mp hack for example)

They could be viruses.

I know of a couple of the programs which are clean, and don't do anything other than pot. So  I have to ask myself;

 

"Do I trust this person not to google around and find a "bad" program, or do I send them the "less bad" one because it's inevitable?"

If I do this I am endangering their account.

 

The most important question I have to ask myself is

 

"Is it fair to ask these people to fight against those who have an advantage against them, telling them to not do it back?"

 

My questions to the community are these:

As a guildleader, what would you do in my position?

How do you feel about it? What is the answer?

 

 

My question to the GMs/staff is this

Do you plan to address this issue and how?

Is this becoming an RCX-type situation?

 

My personal feelings on this are here:

 

Spoiler

Autopot is never about how fast you pot, or that you can push other buttons, it's about reacting to the danger around you. It removes an aspect of the game; your multi-tasking and situational awareness and that alone provides a huge advantage.

I think it should be allowed in pvm at least due to RSI type issues. There needs to be an official solution because the difference between haves and havenots here is huge. I do not believe that it can be fairly enforced to make it bannable.

 

As for the answer to my guildleader dilemma questions : I attempt to discourage it strongly as I do not wish to be responsible for the loss of anyone's account. It would also upset the group within my guild who play fairly and hate these things. This is why we need an answer and I am sure that my guild is simply a small sample of the community and that the issues we face regarding autopot are reflected on a much bigger scale across the server.

[Viri]

The problem with an actual "good" autopot program is it circumvents the client entirely for potting meaning you can exceed the 10 or so consumables per second limit the client kind of enforces. It is totally possible to get the server to accept 45(just under 50) consumables per second and have them all take effect. That's 1 potion every 20 ms or so, that will literally heal you to full in .1 to .2 seconds regardless of how much damage you take at once as long as you don't get 1 shotted. There is something seriously wrong with that.

[Inubashiri]

That requires kRO unfortunately and that requires the second coming of Jesus

[meli]

Didn't Heim say ages ago that a macro that you're actually triggering and controlling yourself (not automated) was ok? Just wondering, was really long ago.

[Xellie]

Didn't Heim say ages ago that a macro that you're actually triggering and controlling yourself (not automated) was ok? Just wondering, was really long ago.

 

Yes but a macro doesn't respond for you.

[Inubashiri]

The issue isn't the ones that send keyboard messages emulating a key press, its the ones that have an AI to them and bypass the client limitations 

Edited by Inubashiri, 22 August 2014 - 11:02 AM.

[Riakuta]

Last comment was the best :3

[Myzery]

Well they don't ban for cheating, so this must be legit to use.

 

 

[Gn1ydnu]

I filled that survey out. I apologize in advance, on my iPhone at work....

What should have been done was consistent banning from the gms for silly things like autopotting and no delay. Luckily we don't have wpe too much right now... Shoulda coulda woulda...

So the staff wasn't consistent over banning people. The result is currently... Every guild thinks the other guilds are cheating, then some individuals from guilds cheat back to "balance" the thought of "they must be cheating". Not getting into drama here, but I talk with every guild of importance. Every single one of them says the same thing "xyz guilds cheat :(". Everybody thinks everybody else cheats and the result is what we have now...

Obviously not everybody uses autopot, but there is a decent number of people that use it from all guilds of importance. It ruins the game for those of us who play legit (by legit I mean using macros hehe).

Autopot killed pvp. Autopot makes players glorified on how well their 3pp is scripted... Instead of glorifying players based on skill.

/rant

Make ap legal so that everyone can play on the same playing field. I would be against it but the damage is done and it's not going away. At this point it's better off to give everybody the ability to have the same "advantage" if they choose. Of course. Key stroke ap not a packet one.

[iamvrypwrful]

will never be encorced 

[Myzery]

[Viri]

+10000

[Kadelia]

Add 0.2 second re-use delay on whites and let the meta adjust around that

[Hissis]

ban everybody,ban ban ban,auto pot is for noobs

[thatfool]

ban everybody,ban ban ban,auto pot is for noobs

ban u

[jake0619]

So many people are quick to accuse autopot when someone isn't dyingm, but they don't realize that it isn't hard to pot as fast as autopot when you're literally doing nothing else but spamming the potion button.

 

Autopot is all about not having to worry about potting/catching damage off guard so you can focus on other things, just like xellie said.

[thatfool]

So many people are quick to accuse autopot when someone isn't dyingm, but they don't realize that it isn't hard to pot as fast as autopot when you're literally doing nothing else but spamming the potion button.

 

Autopot is all about not having to worry about potting/catching damage off guard so you can focus on other things, just like xellie said.

not always true

Edited by thatfool, 22 August 2014 - 02:08 PM.

[lightdrizzle]

No to auto-anything.

[Gn1ydnu]

Come on, I think everybody wants auto loot xD

[lightdrizzle]

Come on, I think everybody wants auto loot xD

 

I play this game for the manual looting.

[Baturiano]

where was that player who posted a woe vid and accidentally opened his executable only to show his no delay and auto pot?

Edited by Baturiano, 22 August 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[thatfool]

[mod]Kittens.[/mod]

Edited by Ralis, 23 August 2014 - 09:13 PM.
Don't answer rhetorical questions, especially if you're going to bring guild drama into it.

[Gn1ydnu]

where was that player who posted a woe vid and accidentally opened his executable only to show his no delay and auto pot?

 

Can't really show no delay in executables. It is a grf edit...

 

You would be able to tell because nothing on screen would have animations showing, this is what I have heard from people. Never done it personally, so can't c/d that part. 

[Viri]

^i'll go ahead and confirm that, everyone else would look funny too.

[ElenaGilbert]

where was that player who posted a woe vid and accidentally opened his executable only to show his no delay and auto pot?

 

 

some BR vid, but he removed it cuz he got busted for it!