I think It would be so much easier to have flying Kafra in Dayr Desert. There are flying kafra everywhere else.
Dayr Desert
#6
Posted 24 August 2014 - 01:44 AM
#7
Posted 25 August 2014 - 02:28 AM
I think It would be so much easier to have flying Kafra in Dayr Desert. There are flying kafra everywhere else.
Although there was another thread about the same topic already, I just gonna repeat it here as well:
Personally, I wouldn't like a Kafra Flight Service in the desert. It ought to be an unexplored desert!
Since noone I know does the daily quests, the only annoyance that you could ever have is to travel to the Muka grinding spot and back to Morroc for a level-up... that's all. And this is limited to ML7~ML13 characters. You can still use butterfly wings for a fast travel in one direction and if Morroc-Warp scrolls were accessable via zeny / MPs in-game, you could save your location near the mukas and wouldn't need to walk at all.
The time you lose is about ~1min per run, so it's negligible compared to the countless hours you spend on leveling. So I'd rather see the latter permanently shortened (see 100% XP/MP boost right now) and would thankfully accept if there's no Flight Service in return at all.
All in all, I would also prefer, if the Master Level quest would require you to defeat the REAL Enherjar and that you would get from ML1 to ML10 by fighting your way through Baphomet's Garden, Culvert of Abyss, Abaddon of Despair and maybe even Chaos Dungeon. Then, the Dayr Desert would just be rather a short 'walk-though' area that doesn't require you to farm mukas. Problem fixed without ever adding a Flight Service.
Edited by Greven79, 25 August 2014 - 03:00 AM.
#8
Posted 25 August 2014 - 04:05 AM
Although there was another thread about the same topic already, I just gonna repeat it here as well:
Personally, I wouldn't like a Kafra Flight Service in the desert. It ought to be an unexplored desert!
Since noone I know does the daily quests, the only annoyance that you could ever have is to travel to the Muka grinding spot and back to Morroc for a level-up... that's all. And this is limited to ML7~ML13 characters. You can still use butterfly wings for a fast travel in one direction and if Morroc-Warp scrolls were accessable via zeny / MPs in-game, you could save your location near the mukas and wouldn't need to walk at all.
The time you lose is about ~1min per run, so it's negligible compared to the countless hours you spend on leveling. So I'd rather see the latter permanently shortened (see 100% XP/MP boost right now) and would thankfully accept if there's no Flight Service in return at all.
All in all, I would also prefer, if the Master Level quest would require you to defeat the REAL Enherjar and that you would get from ML1 to ML10 by fighting your way through Baphomet's Garden, Culvert of Abyss, Abaddon of Despair and maybe even Chaos Dungeon. Then, the Dayr Desert would just be rather a short 'walk-though' area that doesn't require you to farm mukas. Problem fixed without ever adding a Flight Service.
Very flawed reasoning.
Lore must never EVER limit gameplay. Lore must be built around gameplay as long as your game doesn't have story as the top priority (which a MMORPG obviously doesn't).
Also, unexplored? Hard to believe that a region right next to a major city and in the way to another major city is completely unexplored. Even moreso when it contains two mines, which usually mean settlements and traffic. Even moreso when you have in those places merchants selling their goods there, and those merchants go all the way down to the deepest part of the walls! If there's a potion merchant, there surely can be a flying Kafra.
And well, of course nobody does daily quests. Maybe if travelling through the desert weren't such an annoyance there would be someone.
Also, there's no reason to limit it to the current convenient grinding point. You have a Kafra going to the Payon improvised refugee camp, because it's convenient. You have a Kafra going to Dr Jacob's villa, because it's convenient. You have a Kafra going to a random beach outpost, because it's convenient. You have a Kafra going to the friggin' door of the enemy training fortress FFS! That's like the absolute worst place in the world to put an employee in!
As such, there's no reason not to put flying Kafras in the entrance, both mines, the town, the oasis and the eventual gate to Geffen fields, at the very least.
As it stands, doing the quest line for Dayr desert is inmensely annoying as you have to go through a boring 5 minute walk for every new quest. At least give me fly wings.
Edited by Nereida, 25 August 2014 - 05:39 AM.
#9
Posted 28 August 2014 - 08:11 AM
But you're sure you know how simplification works, right?
It's the funny thing that makes you play on small maps that actually represent huge areas. Or do you think the RO2 continent consists of 3 cities and can be crossed completely within an hour? How about that the central palace in moroc? Is it really just a 3-room building?
Was there a Kafra Flight Service right in front of Wolves Cave, Izlude Cave, Abandoned Lab, Hell of Deadly Poison, PvE Arena, Chaos Dungeon or Dark Whisper? How unfair... or why isn't there any flight service in those dungeons as well? Do i really have to WALK to Ratmaster.... bleh!
And what's all that stuff with collecting herbs, reporting to someone or the other quests. How dare they to bother you with these minor issues and steal my precious time!
So lets implement a function where you can click on any spot on any map and you'll be teleported there. Remove all the merchants in game and introduce a market menu instead and include a free skill that convert any item you want directly it into zeny... they did that in Dungeon Siege as well! And finally, rather than to proscribe botting programs, implement a scripting functionality right into the game. Because:
LoreFlavor, story, gameplay must never EVER limitgameplayconvenience.
Edited by Greven79, 28 August 2014 - 08:12 AM.
#12
Posted 28 August 2014 - 09:14 AM
Since my previous post was rude if sincere, I'll expose two points nevertheless. Not gonna reply directly because I don't feel like having an aneurism.
1.Spiraling down the desert is gameplay as much as the current Tomatina event is. The difference is that with the event you get something for the annoyance. By retreading the same long path in Dayr Desert you get neither enjoyment nor any other kind of reward (unless "being able to continue the quest" counts"). You say "story". I say "bull-_-". There's no story element stopping Kafras from flying there. There are non-combatant merchants there. Merchants that must have gotten there somehow. Merchants that are there because there are enough people in the zone to make healthy business. It's a serious plothole that there are merchants doing business there yet there's no clear way on how or why they got there.
2.You compare travelling through the very long desert, all the way through condors, golems, dogmen, golems again, mukas, sapphire wolves and wolves, time and time again in the present and even more in the future, to the short way from the green peco are through half of brown rackufs to Wolf's Cave, or the way from Izlude through stone tarantulas and mermen to izlude Cave (not so bad for Sea God Temple, that is right next to a Kafra, huh? Or Fortress of Sandirman! Right next to the door!) and so on. All of those paths not only are many times shorter than the Great Dayr Odyssey, but are also something you don't NEED to go through more than once or twice, maybe three times if you're a completionist that left stuff undone.
Compare that to doing many times those same paths each time you need to farm materials or do one of the many quests. The difference in scope is gigantic and so is the number of times you need to go through it.
As a final note, maybe i would be less annoyed if I could do some sightseeing while going through that borefest. But that's impossible in Dayr desert. What you get to see from Morroc to the second wave of Freyjans goes like this: sand+monsters+walls->sand+monsters+walls->a wooden ramp->sand+monsters+walls->sand+monsters+walls->sand+monsters+walls->sand+monsters+walls->sand+monsters+walls->sand+monsters+walls+tents
Surely a very picturesque landscape that I don't mind seeing again and again for minutes on end.
Edited by Nereida, 28 August 2014 - 09:16 AM.
#13
Posted 28 August 2014 - 02:13 PM
Are you trolling me? No seriously, is this a troll attempt?
Why would I? The thing is that in my opinion, you've muddled gameplay with convenience.
Doing the normal story quests, I was asked to check on NPC-Y and then report back to NPC-X for almost no XP on countless occations: F.e. checking out the monks in the Miho camp, clearing out Hellbugs or Pereiz in Divided Plains or moving back and forth on Verta Delta.
Did it bother me? Nope. Why? Because I was used to running around for no real reason.
Master levels changed things: Completing dozens of useless quests gave way for a reasonless hours of grinding without any quests. So at least you don't have to run back and turn in your quests anymore. But it isn't always stationary. When you hunt mukas or if you do Osiris runs, you're running most of the time.
And all these grinding spots have something in common: You usually spend a lot of time there and I've rarely seen anyone doing this for less than an hour.
So IMO: Who cares that there is no flight service for farming mukas! At worst, I had to run there a dozen number of times and compared to the hours of running in circles... It's just insignificant. And mukas are only one of several grinding spots!
Have you counted how much time you've spent running to the Osiris temple or to Dark Whisper? Is there a Flight Service? Have you checked how often you've travelled back and forth in Morroc just to either reach the Mailbox, the Auction House or the Mats-Merchant? Are there any Flight Services?
So the lack of a faster transportation method doesn't bother me. It's part of the game.
- In Skyrim, I explored even the last cave although I already had superior gear
- In Assassin's Creed, I collected the random treasure chests from all over the map
- In Borderlands, I was checking a whole map twice just to find the hidden Vault symbols
That's the typical way, how games try to make you involved in their world. F.e. if you would only have the dungeons in RO2, but not the outside world, it wouldn't be the same.
Sure, riding to the mukas isn't as funny as singing & roaring "Row, row, row your boat..." with your men, but I caught me staring at my character from different angles in RO2 quite often.
1.You say "story". I say "bull-_-". There's no story element stopping Kafras from flying there. There are non-combatant merchants there. Merchants that must have gotten there somehow. Merchants that are there because there are enough people in the zone to make healthy business
First of all, you misunderstand the different aspects of something being a part of a "story". Describing the surrounding or seemingly useless parts make up a good story as well. If "Lord of the Rings" would only consist of a series of battle reports, it would be just lame.
The merchants make sense to me. They represent people on different camps on your long journey. Each camp is maybe a day's march maybe a week's march away from the next one. And surprisingly, you'll find "Leader of the Research Group, Nuamu" in different camps as well.
So these merchants are either part of your expedition group or "rare" travelers that pass by in this hot and threatening desert. In game, they offer a chance to restock your supplies of food & pots, but don't represent a large market system. Only by chance, it happens that one camp is near the muka grinding spot and only by chance, mukas were the mobs that are preferred grinding targets.
The same way, Deckard Cain followed you the whole time in Diablo and that's why you find a few automatic vending machines in Borderlands. But that's also the reason, why there aren't any mailboxes in Dayr.
2.You compare travelling through the very long desert, all the way through condors, golems, dogmen, golems again, mukas, sapphire wolves and wolves, time and time again in the present and even more in the future, to the short way from the green peco are through half of brown rackufs to Wolf's Cave, or the way from Izlude through stone tarantulas and mermen to izlude Cave (not so bad for Sea God Temple, that is right next to a Kafra, huh? Or Fortress of Sandirman! Right next to the door!) and so on. All of those paths not only are many times shorter than the Great Dayr Odyssey, but are also something you don't NEED to go through more than once or twice, maybe three times if you're a completionist that left stuff undone.
It took me:
2:15 to reach the mukas.
1:30 to get from Izlude Town to Izlude Cave
1:10 from Morroc Savepoint to DW or Osiris
1:40 to get from Fountain Town to Hell of Deadly Poison
1:25 to get from HoDP entrance to Ungoliant
... and 1:50 to get to to Ratmaster.
So before AoV, I hunted Ungoliant countless number of times to get Union Points. 6 UPs per Ungoliant and ~500 UPs for the costume. The same is true for Ratmaster, especially if it was a wipe and people started at the entrance again.
Honestly, I think you have no idea what players have been through and IMO, you're overestimating the "annoyance factor" that comes by running to Mukas a few times.
Maybe the devs could change the Long Kafra Flight Service in Dayr Desert to the Pilarnium Dead Mine Village instead. Then it only takes 1:30 to reach Mukas.
#15
Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:44 AM
i was particularly fond of left geffen field on ro 1, i hope that area comes back and they do it justice
Now imagine Glast Heim. They should have skipped all these Dayr Temples and Dark Whisper and just go with that.
And kobolds, and orcs... I just realized we do have kobolds, just moved from the wet greenerie of Geffen Field to a desert.
Edited by Nereida, 29 August 2014 - 12:45 AM.
#16
Posted 29 August 2014 - 03:26 PM
Now imagine Glast Heim. They should have skipped all these Dayr Temples and Dark Whisper and just go with that.
And kobolds, and orcs... I just realized we do have kobolds, just moved from the wet greenerie of Geffen Field to a desert.
yes. glast heim church is one of my fave ro1 bgms
and hopefully less grind, more quests
costume quests
injustice costume, zherltsh costume
lols
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