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#1 TragicSlip

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:50 PM

I think it would be of everyone's best interest to have implemented a coin system, that allowed us to exchange big ammounts of zeny for items that could then be exchanged for the same ammount at an NPC.

 

Personally, I cannot think of a downside and it would help everyone who has been afraid of doing multiple trades for an item, giving that the maximum ammount of zeny one can hold is not enough for several hgh-end gears.

 

The values I have in mind for the coins to be worth are 50m, 100m, 500m and 1b.


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#2 Tofu

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:32 PM

Duping is one problem itemized zeny has. Another is the fact that it'll be too easy to do extreme value trades, that it may actually drive up the prices of extremely high end items. Right now, people don't really want 100bil in pure zeny, because it's too difficult to manage that, needing 50 characters just to hold it all. Because of that, people just don't keep that much zeny lying around. If you could all of a sudden carry 30 trillion zeny on a single character, people will start wanting more zeny for their stuff.
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#3 fuyukikun

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 05:34 AM

i always wondering how people dupe stuffs? like the LK MVP card case.
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#4 Facekiller

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 10:09 AM

its best not to question such sorcery... lest the witch hunt bear down upon you!


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#5 Darkcompact

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 12:38 AM

@Tofu
I can't disagree more with your logic. Your argument is that functionality and convenience is bad for the market therefore let's not make progress.

I think this suggestion is fantastic and a simple and direct work-around the zeny cap. As far as I'm aware the zeny cap exists because of coding, and for whatever reason it's more trouble than it's worth to fix this coding to allow bigger pockets. So itemized zeny coins make sense. Why burden players with the need to manage several accounts just to carry the currency. It's about time a solution be made and done. Not to mention this makes it simpler to trade zeny between your own characters (on a single account, not needing to trade between a middle man account or friend).
I've recently returned from a two year absence and it really is about time RO made some progress. I understand they're working with dated code and systems (I've worked on games put together figuratively with duct tape and string, and it's hell to try to improve and introduce new features with a rigid foundation).

So why not introduce something that works, make a coin that isn't effected by overcharge or discount that is sold and bought by an Npc that pays the same value as it is sold as. Or simply a dialogue Npc that exchanges X amount of zeny for X coin type.

As I directed my comment at Tofu, there really isn't any good reason to not make progress in functionality and convenience. If what is keeping prices of high end items down is the burden of trading the currency, well that says enough about how the system already is.
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#6 Facekiller

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Posted 07 September 2014 - 11:46 AM

this has been brought up like 100 times already and has been shot down as many times... first it would be something that kRO would have to approve... secondly it would make zeny selling easier (so that alone would make them not do it) then there is the issue of item duping... and yes having extreme zeny trades would drive prices even higher... the people on our server are greedy as hell... you can go to kRO or jRO and look at the prices of their MVP cards and compare them to ours... we dont have any fewer cards (in fact we prolly have more)... their prices are like 1/10th of what ours are for the same items....


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#7 Necrohealiac

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 05:43 AM

currency revaluation /go


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#8 TontonAlarcon

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 06:33 AM

have you been in Rose Online? they have billions of zulies that their money is like yen. if you remove the zeny cap, economy will be just like rose online where high end items are being sold for hundreds of millions or sometimes billions of zulies. at least in RO, i can buy decent gears with my 100m and still have more than spare change left after gearing up.


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#9 Darkcompact

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 06:55 AM

You don't seem to understand the concept of inflation. Inflation literally means nothing in an online game that has no cap to the amount of currency you can have. Inflation is the same for you, is the same for me, is the same for the billionaries. Actually the only people that are most effected when inflation occurs is the billionaires. The value of their currency decreases. Now we all acknowledge there's an issue with high-end trading in this game. The fact that it's bothersome, a burden, to have and to simply exchange large amounts of zeny is just silly. Again, this is simply because the system cannot handle it. So instead of updating the RO system (because RO is like 12 years old and this is still an issue, let's just assume it's way too hard of a fix) we can have a work around, itemized zeny.

All the arguments against this are issues that already exist, and your argument of:
1. It makes it easier for zeny selling. Prove it, please, zeny selling exists with or without itemized zeny.
2. Inflation will sky rocket if zeny is easily transferable. EVEN if this were true, that still has little merit against FIXING an existing problem. The market is what the market decides it wants to be. Supply and demand. If people are buying Tao's for 30b still, then guess what, Tao is worth 30b. This is what happens when there is a free market, this "invisible hand" guides prices with supply and demand. If the ONLY thing stopping people from buying a Tao (again just an example) for anything more than 30b is because they dont want to exchange more than 15 characters worth of pure zeny, then that's really on the game to begin with to fix. (I doubt a few more characters worth of trading is what is stopping a high-end item from being worth anymore). Guess what, mega inflation already exists on servers like Renewal.
3. Increased vending pricing is suppose to come anyways. The cap over 99,999,00 is suppose to come at some point. I believe it was suppose to raise the cap one more decimal over, meaning prices such as 999,999,000 will be possible. Again another example of inflation already being here. The market has tons and tons of currency pumped into it, because of the nature of a game with little to no money sink. This again is an issue with the game, not with convenience of trading.
4. item duping!! If you itemize zeny then it'll be duped! Explain to me how this is any different than duping already is. So these mischievous bunch of people that are already capable of duping items in RO, now that they have itemized zeny. This is more advantageous than duping what they already may have their hands on? Like mvp cards worth billions (we all know they're traded as such in high-end trades, at some agreed upon value of zeny). This isn't a compelling argument against itemized zeny.

At the end, you can scapegoat all you want. But realistically arguments against more convenience are pretty futile to anyone with any sense to them.

You may as well say, "Let's put the supermarket at the WAY outskirts of town, because that'll help keep prices of everything right".

Edited by Darkcompact, 12 September 2014 - 12:56 AM.

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#10 Facekiller

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 07:24 AM

kRO wont allow it... the GMs have already said so... end of discussion


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#11 Tofu

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:22 AM

The 100mil vend limit is another thing that keeps prices down. You can either sit in eden with a chat, and try to sell something for 120mil. But then you've gotta sit and watch all day. You have to deal with people who offer like 15 elven bows or 40mil zeny and a poring pet. The other option is to accept your loss, and just vend the stupid thing for 99mil, and not have to deal with any of that. Most things that are hovering around 100-120mil are going to go up in price, once we have the 1bil vend limit in place, simply because people will be able to sell them at an increased price without an exponential increase in inconvenience.
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#12 Tofu

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:35 AM

@Tofu
I can't disagree more with your logic. Your argument is that functionality and convenience is bad for the market therefore let's not make progress.


Also, quote me where I said I did not want "progress." All I did was list out possible problems with this, because OP said he could not find any problems.
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#13 Kadelia

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Posted 08 September 2014 - 09:37 AM

I don't see any downsides to allowing people to0 spend or hold the money they've earned. Anyone who does probably doesn't understand Austrian economics.
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#14 TragicSlip

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Posted 10 September 2014 - 02:21 PM

Calm down, guys. There's no reason to be worked up about it :P

 

Also,

Also, quote me where I said I did not want "progress." All I did was list out possible problems with this, because OP said he could not find any problems.

Yes, that's true. Thanks, by the way.

 

 

 

 


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#15 Darkcompact

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 12:46 AM

Also, quote me where I said I did not want "progress." All I did was list out possible problems with this, because OP said he could not find any problems.


You're right, I assumed you didn't want progress because you listed such pity possible problems with itemized zeny.
That being said, they really are pity problems as I already listed them and relevant statements about them. I have to agree with Jaye, if someone's made zeny, they should be able to spend it. Convenient as possible.

For how long iRO has dealt with this problem, it sure hasn't made any stride to fix it. And everyone saying kRO has to approve first, give me a break. Think outside the box for a second. Just have an NPC vend any friggin item with weight 0, high resell value that equates to it's buy value with the merchant overcharge rank 10.

The above is just another work-around to your myth of kRO needing to approve anything for anything to be done. If it is such a matter of fact anyways.

Item A from NpcA is sold at 500k zeny, weight 0, in the case the resell can't be tweaked, just add an Npc to take item A for 500k zeny. Wallah instant easy zeny transaction. Now players can trade 10,000 item A (value 5B), exchangeable at this certain NPC, for some MvP card.

It can be the official unofficial way to trade large amounts of zeny.

As someone who has made large zeny transactions, it just simply is an annoyance to move my own zeny between characters, exchange zeny over 1b with others, and generally manage it (due to character cap). So yes, at this point, there should be something done. Inflation only gets worse, and more characters means more data means more stress on servers.
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#16 Necrohealiac

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 05:03 AM

Just put in a bank.  I know there used to be one in LH but they took it away again; wasn't around for either point so dunno wtf blew up on that implementation.

 

Bank stores all your account's zeny, no cap.  You can talk to bank npc to redeem checks, personalized items (i.e. Player A's Check - Player A determines amount on the Check when having NPC create it) that you can trade to other players.  Player B redeems Player A's check at the same bank, zeny moves from Player A's account at bank to Player B's account.

 

Done.  No coins, no conversion worries, nothing.  That's how the bank should've functioned in the first place.  Everything is imminently traceable.


Edited by Necrohealiac, 12 September 2014 - 05:04 AM.

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#17 Darkcompact

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 04:27 PM

Just put in a bank. I know there used to be one in LH but they took it away again; wasn't around for either point so dunno wtf blew up on that implementation.

Bank stores all your account's zeny, no cap. You can talk to bank npc to redeem checks, personalized items (i.e. Player A's Check - Player A determines amount on the Check when having NPC create it) that you can trade to other players. Player B redeems Player A's check at the same bank, zeny moves from Player A's account at bank to Player B's account.

Done. No coins, no conversion worries, nothing. That's how the bank should've functioned in the first place. Everything is imminently traceable.


My goodness this existed once? Here I am suggesting archaic methods thinking iRO has limitations due to the game itself but that's surprisingly sophisticated. This, +999 to this please. A bank!
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#18 Kadelia

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Posted 12 September 2014 - 04:31 PM

That was a proposal not a history lesson
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#19 Necrohealiac

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Posted 15 September 2014 - 07:45 AM

the second paragraph onwards on the banking part was my own proposal.  I welcome critiques as to why this system would not work/be subject to abuse, coding limitations notwithstanding.

 

When the bank was initially put in LH, users were apparently able to deposit zeny into it, but the bank ate their money (Not FIDC insured, obv)

 

http://forums.warppo...agnarok-online/


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