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My opinion on Classic.Loki server


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#1 OBBO

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 12:56 PM

*These are just my opinion*

 

I used to play RO heavily in renewal before. After 2-3 weeks of trying classic ....

 

1. Leveling is hard since LV~40 would take more than 1 hour to gain 1 level

I can see more value of just 1 level up. It makes me to cherish my characters not to delete them without enough reasons.

Also made me feel sleepy sometime.....

 

2. In renewal, I had to be in range +/- 15 levels of target in order to gain EXP.

In classic, there is no rule like this. Just go to the map I need to grind.

So there are more ways of leveling method like Archer shooting Greatest Generals or Mage shooting Geographers which is super fast.

My character fully get EXP from them so I got my archer to LV 40 in 3 hours. (Out of training ground at LV10 --> Baby Desert Wolf --> Spore --> Wolf --> Greatest General)

 

3. VIT and Defense is completely different

spending points for just 1 vit will directly reduce received damage for 1

10 VITs make it possible to receive 1 damage by some basic monsters like Drops, Poring, Fabre etc.

Gears bought from the shops in town really help

Some basic gears like Muffler or Shoes (no slot) obviously reduce the damages whereas in renewal, they're rubbish unless I put on Eden Gears.

There is no Eden Group Equipment Quest so those gears and shops become worthy.

 

4. Less community

Not many people playing in classic. Nearly impossible to find party since the popular maps for leveling is full of bots and they have never been banned.

I can't find the recruiting spot. In renewal, just go into TI and make a chatroom but in classic, I have to do dual-clienting for self-leeching in order to level fast.

And finding items in the market is hard....

I spent so much time finding cheap basic gears like Circlet[1] or Willow Card.

Most items are expensive and impossible to afford for poor like me.

 

5. Less game options

Can't find the settings for skill shortcuts and User Interface.

There is no option like "Mouse Exclusive" in classic. So my cursor is limited only in game's window. This is annoying....

Also the mouse sensitivity is slower than renewal and I can't find where to set it.

 

6. Instant casting!!!

I was surprised by High Priest with Lv99. She casts Increase Agility and Assumptio so quickly. Nearly barless I think..  because it takes very few time like 0.1 second.

I have never seen it's quicky like this in renewal.

 

Conclusion :

  Ragnarok Classic reminds me how great fun it was back in 10 years ago. I personally like it more than the renewal. I feel more impressive in old system. It would be perfect if the configuration allows me to set up like I can do in renewal.

 

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Edited by OBBO, 02 September 2014 - 01:08 PM.

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#2 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:10 PM

Classic use to be good. Unfortunately there are many problems that the development team hasn't addressed yet or never intended to address. 

 

-Same PVM as 10 years ago. No new MVP or challenges.

-Leveling is god awful when you first start. Then leveling is crazy easy once your established. Create a new character and be 99 trans in a day if your established or months if your brand new.

-Not enough players to support high end loot. There are enough variants on the server for every player and bot to have 3+ pairs. Same goes for almost all MVP drops.

-Running out of "new" content. People are against the idea of new gears being implemented which means we will be stuck with everything we have. Basically the end game goals come easy/fast with nothing in the future to replace them. This hurts server activity.

-No incentive for people to make new guilds.

 

Then you add on community/game masters issues...

 

-Unlimited number of god items created.

-Mass duping and renewal items put onto Classic.

-Ridiculous guild bannings. 

-Cheating encouraged by some, used by many.

-0 consistency about enforcing rules, but if its a stupid rule it will be enforced/you wont get help.

-This list I could go on for a very long time....

 

At the end of the day, I did love Classic and their use to be a lot of potential for the server.... 


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#3 hoikarnage

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:30 PM

There is no question that iRO was better before renewal. It was more challenging, there was more of a sense of community (IMO), and it wasn't Pay2Win like it is now.

 

I would probably start playing classic but I just don't trust that the server is going to stick around. I don't want to put months into a character that might get deleted or transferred back to Chaos.

 

I have three genetics on the same account right now because of all the damn server closures.

 

And woe is not much fun anymore either. Everyone is just a one hit wonder. There is not much skill involved anymore, just brute force.


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#4 OBBO

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 01:34 PM

Agreed, I ran into a worse situation in leveling back in the beginning, my first character.

I moved around the wolf map to pick up items on the ground that bots never pick up to collect zeny and buy Stiletto[2] from the shop at Morroc.

But I like it :o

 

Another problem I have, some days of vending, no one buys my stuff at all.....

This indicates too low population and too low activity of the server.

This is not a good sign......  :p_sad:


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#5 Ralis

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 02:26 PM

Join a guild and ask around for cheapo gear. It never sells because there's no value in selling it... I'd rather just give it away. :P
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#6 hoikarnage

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 02:36 PM

Join a guild and ask around for cheapo gear. It never sells because there's no value in selling it... I'd rather just give it away. :P

 

I used to drop cheap gear in S. Pront for the newbies, but there is no point anymore because the newbies are sent to a different S. Pront.

 

I suppose I could walk all the way to izlude, but the bots would probably just pick it up if I dropped it there.


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#7 iamvrypwrful

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Posted 02 September 2014 - 06:53 PM

 

And woe is not much fun anymore either. Everyone is just a one hit wonder. There is not much skill involved anymore, just brute force.

 

WoE is exponentially more fun on classic compared to renewal, I don't think many people dispute that.


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#8 Ryokosha

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 04:09 AM

Ragnarok Online used to be really great and then gradually got worse even before renewal. With renewal it was then completely ruined.

 

There are only two things good about renewal:

- Client improvements (world map, NPC markers, HP bars)

- More maps & updates that keep the game interesting

 

What old RO did a lot better was what I could simply define as "balance", but of course there is a lot more to it.

 

Originally, RO was actually quite well balanced. All the monsters gave really well balanced exp and drop rewards. There wasn't really one monster alot better to kill than another one. Instead the best monsters to hunt did depend mostly on your class. Even the map spawns were well thought out so that all the maps were balanced. That meant you always had 30+ viable maps available

 

Then 2006 came that really changed the balance to the worse. A few selected monsters were strongly buffed in the exp they gave, but without increasing their atk stat at all (Spore, Wolf, Muka, ..., Isis) and then those buffed mobs got all their maps were many of them spawned on. In fact one thing was good about this update: After the update there was one map that was particularly good for each monster to hunt, so it actually made hunting cards more viable (let's be honest, the only reason they added that many Hunter Flies in Geffen Tower 1 was because there was no map for hunting them).

The big problem with that change was... instead of all maps being viable for leveling, now only a few selected ones became really good for leveling, while all the others will only be visited to hunt an item anymore. This of course also strongly affects the items that new players get. Nobody new player will get a Bigfoot Card / Poopoo Hat anymore simple because hunting Bigfoot isn't as effective as hunting Wolves anymore. Balance reduced.

 

But that wasn't enough. The next big "ruining" update was 11.3. While on the one hand they finally brought a dungeon that is challenging but not impossible for a normal player (I think Bio 3, Thor and New World were made too hard in pre-renewal), they also added something that completely ruined partying: Anubis.

Now suddenly all the Priests on the server instead of looking for someone to party with started to just level up on Anubis with TU (or even offensive Ygg Leaf using). Before it was fairly easy to find a Priest for party simply because Priests did depend on others, but not suddenly, it was hard to find a Priest and without a Priest, hardly any party setup is viable. Partying reduced.

 

But then... to top all of the other "ruining" they added renewal. It limited maps you can go to even further by putting that arbitrary exp/drop penalty on level difference. But what's worse about this change is: There is no challenging region anymore where you actually still get exp. Monster the same level than you are just too easy and you can kill them solo and even mob them. This put the final nail on the party coffin. Not to mention that 3rd classes are no only really horribly balanced, they also reduce the uniqueness of  each class, making every class able to solo.

But hey, at least Anubis doesn't give 28000/22000 exp anymore! Let's add that to the pro list.

 

 

 

So now that I finally found a place to express my feelings, let's get back to the classic server...

 

The idea of a classic server itself isn't so bad, because renewal really ruined a lot. Gameplay-wise the classic server is superior in pretty much all aspects (except client improvements, see above). And just not having 3rd classes is a huge boost in class balance (which is also the reason why WoE is better).

On the other hand the lack of (non-bot) players is pretty frustrating.

 

But I think it's also that Classic just isn't advertised well enough. For a player new to RO you won't even explain the difference between the two servers on the main page. The classic server advertisement is only directed towards old RO players. Why not but the two servers in direct contrast with all its pros and cons?

 

Like:

"Renewal: More content, 3rd classes, easy to play, quest-driven progression, focused around soloing.

Classic: Only classic content, no 3rd classes, more challenging to play, grind-driven progression, stronger party focus."

 

Then everybody could just decide himself what he likes more.

 

 

But honestly, just keeping old episodes just because people liked the game better back then isn't really the solution.

The real solution would be to admit renewal did many things wrong and revert them.

 

I would start with completely removing any exp/drop penalties no matter how big the level difference is. Almost 100%.

But that doesn't work with the exp monsters give in renewal, what's needed is a complete rewrite of the exp that the different monsters give. The EXP:HP ratio should slowly increase the harder the monsters is. Simplified you start with 30:1 (Poring 60 HP - 2 EXP) and end up somewhere around 3:1 in endgame (???? 30000 HP - 10000 EXP). That way it is always worth partying up to fight harder monsters simply because the exp ratio is better on harder monsters.

It was beautiful how in pre-renewal every single monster exp stat was carefully "handwritten" (in renewal it's just almost always same for all monsters of the same level), but if that's too much work, at least work out some plausible formula for it. Something that restores the system of some monsters being good for base exp while other being good for job exp. Something that does not only consider HP and ATK but also things like element (undead monster generally had a lower EXP:HP ratio originally).

 

Next step would be to rewrite 3rd class skills so they are more individual and balanced.

 

And so on...

 

 

For now I'll stay on Classic!


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#9 meichaofeng

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:23 AM

But I think it's also that Classic just isn't advertised well enough. For a player new to RO you won't even explain the difference between the two servers on the main page. 

 

Yes, this is it.

N> more players for Classic

 

I would think the current Classic player could refrain a bit from putting down the server so much in forum. We all wish there were more new players, but the way we complain and nag makes the server look very unappealing.


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#10 Kieri

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:27 AM

Most people who care to try Classic just don't have the time anymore to grind up from 1/1 with nothing. I for one don't have the time/motivation to level anything and gear it even if WoE on Classic is more fun.


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#11 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 05:33 AM

If your intention is just woe, talk to a WoE guild. There are plenty of guilds/players have have extra accounts to lend out for WoE. 

 

I would try out a WoE on Classic and then if you like it you could always make a character. Or you could just keep borrowing one :P


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#12 OBBO

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:00 AM

I remember someone said this :


You have 2 main factors going on;
 
1) You took a product that's only appeal is distorted nostalgia
2) You took a product that is no longer being developed by its designer
 
And you expected it to succeed as the future of RO? Somehow? Before Classic was even launched and heimdallr was talking about cannibalizing Yggdrasil to make the classic server I said "That server will have less than a hundred people on it in a years time, this is a bad idea". Well, I was wrong. But only by a little. You don't have to be Nostradamus to predict something with the 2 above points won't last.
 
We might have to bring Mr.Kim Hakkyu back to Gravity and let him continue the development on Ragnarok Online exclusively in order to make this game a "true" perfect.
...... lol  this is completely impossible. I can just hope for it.
 
Thank you Ryokosha. I like your review.
 

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#13 Xellie

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:07 AM

Most people who care to try Classic just don't have the time anymore to grind up from 1/1 with nothing. I for one don't have the time/motivation to level anything and gear it even if WoE on Classic is more fun.

 

Goddamit I'm terrible.

 

Talk to me after maint. Lets get this over with.

 

downside to classic : guildleading takes a lot of effort ._.

upside to classic : you have to play with the people you play with.


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#14 kuyaeze

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 07:22 AM

i play both servers, more on renewal recently. i must say, i find it easier to make friends on Classic. The person who talked to me the most in renewal is the spambot on prontera. (kidding on that part) Must be because all i do is amatsu dragon and low TIs. Back in classic i'd find fellow levelers on unusual maps, guilds that are actively recruiting on south prontera. New content got me curious about renewal though. 


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#15 Cinquine

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 07:28 AM

I used to drop cheap gear in S. Pront for the newbies, but there is no point anymore because the newbies are sent to a different S. Pront.

 

I suppose I could walk all the way to izlude, but the bots would probably just pick it up if I dropped it there.

 

Wait, is the special newbie map on classic? I thought it was just renewal. Now I'm curious.


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#16 Necrohealiac

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 07:29 AM

this is referring to the instanced version of south pront


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#17 Facekiller

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 08:15 AM

part of the issue when advertising classic is "classic" isnt defined well enough... saying the classic server has "classic mechanics" "monsters on their original maps" ect doesnt tell a new player anything... they simply wont have the frame of reference... and when you think about it a new player would more likely want to join the server with the bigger population, higher level characters, more content, more updates... Classic has its merits but its aimed at veterans who played back in prerenewal... and because of that the advertising is aimed at veterans... "Classic Mechanics" isnt an incentive to join a server when you dont explain what that means... instead it should say that Stats effect things more than gears do unlike in renewal... give specifics when comparing the 2 servers...


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#18 thatfool

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 08:42 AM

maybe they should change the name to pre-renewal or something


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#19 Facekiller

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:34 AM

even the term pre-renewal wont attract players new to ragnarok... there needs to be a list of what each server has and how each one works... stats vs gears, trans 2 vs 3rds, open exp gain vs capped exp gain... these are the things people (especially new players) need to know... but terms like pre-renewal, classic ect are only catering to players who have already been playing... and most of the players who are already familiar with ragnarok have chosen their server preference...


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#20 Oda

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:58 AM

part of the issue when advertising classic is "classic" isnt defined well enough... saying the classic server has "classic mechanics" "monsters on their original maps" ect doesnt tell a new player anything... they simply wont have the frame of reference... and when you think about it a new player would more likely want to join the server with the bigger population, higher level characters, more content, more updates... Classic has its merits but its aimed at veterans who played back in prerenewal... and because of that the advertising is aimed at veterans... "Classic Mechanics" isnt an incentive to join a server when you dont explain what that means... instead it should say that Stats effect things more than gears do unlike in renewal... give specifics when comparing the 2 servers...

This is absolutely correct, and we will have a separate site for Classic on our new PlayRagnarok site revamp. Working on a guide and video explaining differences/selling points of classic so please let me know what things would be best to touch on

 

1)New player would be interested in for Classic

2)Advantages/differences between Classic/Renewal

 

What other things should be covered?


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#21 Viri

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:58 AM

classic players will complain then because any information comparing the two will immediately make any new player choose renewal. There's literally 0 reason based off of just "stats" about the server that would encourage anyone to ever play classic.


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#22 Ralis

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:04 AM

Classic has higher base rates than Renewal... That might appeal to some people? XD

 

As for the getting started thing... I wouldn't mind some sort of beginning Eden Gear stuff on Classic. It definitely is tough to start out from scratch on a new server.

 

Also, though, you have to consider starting from scratch on Renewal... While you may be able to level and such, the server is so saturated with God Items and MVP Cards that no new player can really have much hope of being able to compete anytime in the near future unless they're willing to spend money on the game. You can compete without that type of gear just fine on Classic because WoE / PvP is more focused on the GvG aspect of the game rather than any one single person due to the balance of how the classes work together.


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#23 iamvrypwrful

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:08 AM

I don't think many new players will play classic. The target audience is people who have played RO before and know the differences.


Edited by iamvrypwrful, 03 September 2014 - 10:08 AM.

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#24 Xellie

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:28 AM

The mistake lays in advertising Classic as a legacy product, in reality it should be called an alternative play mode.


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#25 Cinquine

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Posted 03 September 2014 - 02:11 PM

maybe they should change the name to pre-renewal or something

 

I agree with this. It isn't really "classic" anymore, there is quite a bit of new content. I think calling it pre-renewal would be far more accurate.


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