18 replies to this topic

[Klik06]

This is a basic rundown of what's going on in the forging world...

 

Dams = 1 Zircon 6,000/4,560 max discount / 4 Oridecon = (65k Each=260K) + 60 Steel (10.9k Each= 654k) + 2 Star Crumb (Very Very = (3.5k each = 7k) Or (Very Very Very =10.5k) +

Element (15,975 on average of all 4 element cost) = 936,975 - 940,475 Average Material Cost Per Attempt (& add 325k for anyone that upgrades it to 5)

Average Price on Ragial atm = 2.2mil 

 

Fists = 4 Oridecons = (65k Each = 260K) + 10 Rubies = (60k or 45,600) with max discount + Star Crumb (Very Very = (3.5k each = 7k) Or (Very Very Very =10.5k) +

Element (15,975 on average of all 4 element cost) = 328,575 - 332,075 Average Material Cost Per Attempt (& add 325k for anyone that upgrades it to 5)

Average Price on Ragial atm = 1.5mil 

 

Claymores = Craked Diamond = 4k + 16 ORIDECON = (65K Each = 1,040,000) + 20 Steel (10.9k Each = 218,000) + 2 Star Crumb (Very Very = (3.5k each = 7k) Or (Very Very Very =10.5k) +

Element (15,975 on average of all 4 element cost) = 1,284,975 - 1,288,475 Average Material Cost Per Attempt (& add 325k for anyone that upgrades it to 5)

Average Price on Ragial atm = 3.6mil 

 

2H Axes = 1 Amethyst = 14k + 8 ORIDECON = (65k Each = 520,000) + 10 Steel = (10.9k Each  = 109,000) + 2 Star Crumb (Very Very = (3.5k each = 7k) Or (Very Very Very =10.5k) +

Element (15,975 on average of all 4 element cost) = 665,975 - 669,475 Average Material Cost Per Attempt (& add 325k for anyone that upgrades it to 5)

Average Price on Ragial atm = 2.7mil 

 

Sword Maces = 20 Sharp Scale (700z Each = 14k) + (100 Steel 10,9k Each = 1,090,000) + 2 Star Crumb (Very Very = (3.5k each = 7k) Or (Very Very Very =10.5k) +

Element (15,975 on average of all 4 element cost) = 1,111,000-1114500 Average Material Cost Per Attempt (& add 325k for anyone that upgrades it to 5)

Average Price on Ragial arm = 2.4mil 

 

I did some of the math.  This is just a simple estimate of what you lose per failed attempt that you make forges on some of the main forges we all do.  

 

I have a few questions

1. Do you price your forges cheap for a quick sell?
2. Are you making any profit?
3. The ones that upgrade them to 5.  I don't have to ask if they're making  a profit cause they're using Orideon to upgrade forges that require Oridecon so you can't be breaking even
4. Can you take a good look at what you're doing.

You can say I'm complaining.  But, It doesn't make what I just posted less true!  You see it here.  Judge for yourself.  And take the hint.

Thanks for reading....

Edited by Klik06, 06 September 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[Spooky34]

This is a basic rundown of what's going on in the forging world...

I have a few questions

1. Do you price your forges cheap for a quick sell? hmmm... did you try to buy those things in the past?... if NO? you already know the next answer in question 2,3 & 4...

 

Edited by Spooky34, 07 September 2014 - 02:13 AM.

[fuyukikun]

forgers fail more than success, even tho they sell the weapon at 2-3x materials price, the income isnt steady since not much people buy it and one person only need to buy 1 of it for lifetime and never buy again..
different with making potions, people always buy them in regular basis since pots are dissapeared after being used.

[Klik06]

Actually I'm a forger myself.  ("KlikMart" btw)  I just think us forgers are undercutting each other so badly that we can't be making any profit.

[Klik06]

forgers fail more than success, even tho they sell the weapon at 2-3x materials price, the income isnt steady since not much people buy it and one person only need to buy 1 of it for lifetime and never buy again..
different with making potions, people always buy them in regular basis since pots are dissapeared after being used.

Looking at the numbers we should be selling our forges for 6 times as much as the materials cost.

[spikexp]

I forge for fun. I just need to get some better gears before I really start forging for rank.

Def not expecting to profit until kRO decides to give us more upgrading options.

[Riakuta]

I just want to point out one thing. If you have a Genetic with Change Material, you can create 10 Steel for every 1 Tsurugi [1].

Cost to make 10 Steel 51,000z (38,760z)

[Klik06]

I just want to point out one thing. If you have a Genetic with Change Material, you can create 10 Steel for every 1 Tsurugi [1].

Cost to make 10 Steel 51,000z (38,760z)

 

That's true all the calculations I made was based on if you're buying the materials. Change Material can be a Forgers best friend.  I made a Potter "KlikTheKingPotter" Originally to make steel.  So yes that's a good thing to point out.  I also like to add that even if you're making a battle gent put a point on change material cause I mean it's just one skill point.  And you can make steel for forgers that don't have a gent.  And sell steel for twice the amount it cost you to make it using this skill.  Oh and this skill in the case of using a Tsurugi[1] works 100% of the time.  Instant 10 Steel.  The weapon can be bought at einbroch weapon shop near kafra just below the train station.  You can use the mule to get there quicker.  Just so you know change material can do alot more that I won't get into cause we're all about forger just look at this page

 

http://irowiki.org/w...Change_Material

 

As far as I know when you try to make steel using this skill it's fail safe no matter how much luk, dex, or int you have.

Thanks for pointing this out.

[Kadelia]

Can you clarify the purpose of this thread? I am not sure I follow what you're trying to learn or teach here. Some of your questions don't even make sense (e.g. #4)

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Forging really isn't something you should be doing for profit's sake. There's no demand on Renewal since cheaper, more effective weapons exist and Sages defeat the point of elementally imbued gear. Same goes for Classic, although to a lesser extent. Forging in iRO's current environment is just showing ignorance for the state of the market and demands of your consumers. It's like selling an old Nokia brick to someone with an iPhone; the only buyers will be nostalgia monkeys or people who don't know any better.

 

Btw refining to +5? You're certainly not going to make a profit consuming ores and zeny for such a low refine level. As refine rates beyond 7 increase the value of the weapon exponentially, your minimum refine should be 7 (unless you just sell them +0) and max 10, done using a Job 70 Mastersmith.

 

To answer your questions though:

 

1. Yes.
2. Yes, but only if the gear is +7+.
3. Not a question.
4. Already did.

[Klik06]

Can you clarify the purpose of this thread? I am not sure I follow what you're trying to learn or teach here. Some of your questions don't even make sense (e.g. #4)

 

It should be obvious

 

1.) To forgers that we're paying more for the materials.

2.) Than we make selling the forges.  

3.) And forging of course we all know isn't fail safe.  

4.) I also want people to know that forgers price their weapons so cheap and undercut each other to the point that it becoming low profit in doing it.  

5.) To hell with doing it for fun.  

6.) You either want to make zeny or not.  

7.) Cause people will always buy something for nothing.  

8.) As forgers we should raise our prices.  

9.) After all we did the work and bought materials to make & fail at forging.  

10.) Then sell it real cheap for a quick sell and weak profit.

11.) AFTER ALL YOU NEED TO MAKE ZENY TO BUY THE MATERIALS TO KEEP FORGING

12.) Think about it....

[AlmrOfAtlas]

They price them cheap because they're desperate to sell to a market that doesn't have any demand. Forging is an outdated mechanic that has no place in RO 2014.

[spikexp]

OP is a good forger, but a sub-par enterpreneur.

[Kadelia]

It should be obvious

1.) To forgers that we're paying more for the materials.
2.) Than we make selling the forges.
3.) And forging of course we all know isn't fail safe.
4.) I also want people to know that forgers price their weapons so cheap and undercut each other to the point that it becoming low profit in doing it.
5.) To hell with doing it for fun.
6.) You either want to make zeny or not.
7.) Cause people will always buy something for nothing.
8.) As forgers we should raise our prices.
9.) After all we did the work and bought materials to make & fail at forging.
10.) Then sell it real cheap for a quick sell and weak profit.
11.) AFTER ALL YOU NEED TO MAKE ZENY TO BUY THE MATERIALS TO KEEP FORGING
12.) Think about it....

Why did it take you 12+ lines to say "I am unhappy that forged items don't sell for very much, despite the effort required."?

Almr answered you. Supply and demand. There is little to no demand for obsolete items.

[Hakobune]

They should have really updated forging when 3rd classes came out. I remember back when 3rd classes were just being talked about and they said mechanics would be getting more forging options and Genes would get more potting capabilities. Guess which one of these classes got shafted?

 

In my opinion, forged weapons are actually too expensive for their new role in renewal and that is mostly due the price of materials and whatnot. The only real use forged weapons have anymore is for new players who don't have access to better equips and cards. However their are much more cheaper alternatives to forged weapons in most of the "garbage" MVP drops.

 

Lets do some comparisons using OPs prices for forged weapons and ragial for other weapons using swordsman, merchant and thief weapons.

 

 

VVS Ele claymore 3.6mil           Zweihander 290k   *Zweihander also does not require the player to be a knight to use

 

VVS ele Damascus 2.2mil         Grimtooth 890k      *Not really a garbage MVP drop but has more atk and has late game usage for ninjas

 

VVS Ele swordmace 2.4mil        Long mace 74k?    *To be honost, the ragial price for long mace seems off to me, also has late game use

 

VVS Ele 2H axe 2.7mil               Great Axe 140k      *Ragial also says a +4 one is worth 5mil so this one may be in the Forged ones favor kinda

 

 

All of the weapons listed on the non forged side have at least 5 or more atk then the forged weapons base atk not including starcrumbs atk bonus

 

This comparison was based mostly on the base attack of the weapons and not so much the availability of them. However Ragial is somewhat a dubious source of pricing info as seen with the Great  Axe and the Long Mace. This also did not take into account Eden group weapons which are somewhat free (quests and whatnot) and have much more attack.

 

So if we go by what we see here, forged weapons aren't quite worth what they should be sold for. As for the elemental aspect of forged weapons, for the amount saved on purchasing a cheaper weapon one could just buy converters (or make a converter making sage), as one would have to buy four weapons to cover all their elemental needs. Not to mention the more cost effective elemental weapons like hellfire, Schweizersabel and Tomahawk that also have bonuses in addition their elemental attributes.

 

I think part of the problem for forging is the low availability of oridecon dropping monsters. Seeing as the price of Ori at 70k compared to Elu at 20k there is definitely a higher amount of monsters dropping Elu then Ori (or at least a higher amount of monsters in TIs dropping Elu). It also doesn't help that Ori was removed from a lot of MVPs drops a few years back.

 

TL;DR version: only new players need forged weapons and crap drops are cheaper and better, and the low oridecon supply makes for high demand and makes forged goods more expensive making them too pricey for intended consumers.

[Kadelia]

Higher atk weapons are only better if you have access to elemental overrides such as sage endows and converter scrolls. newbies don't have access to those. so for a newbie, elemental swordmace > long mace. And so on. however, elemental weapons are out of a newbies price range. how strangely inconvenient. by time you can afford elemental weapons, you no longer have use for them....!

[Klik06]

OP is a good forger, but a sub-par enterpreneur.

 

I'm not going to even talk about this anymore.  I put up the figures.  Yall do what yall wanna do.  Zeny talks!  BS runs the marathon.  I'm done!

 

Bump!

Edited by Klik06, 17 September 2014 - 04:13 PM.

[Kadelia]

Why would you bump it if you don't like what you're hearing?

[Necrohealiac]

OP should consider alternative investments.