23 replies to this topic

[Renzio22]

Do you think it's time for us to revamp the Union Quests and rewards?

[Sestuplo]

Hard to say what to do about rewards, cause the Union rewards currently are crafting materials and a couple of costumes. With the Master Level merchant, at least one of them would be redundant.

 

That being said, I once proposed an idea that join a Union would enable world PvP, but that got shot down.

Edited by Sestuplo, 18 September 2014 - 10:08 PM.

[Shinyusuke]

They could add new union quest to cover the "new" part: raids and ml maps. In the end union costumes, accessories and scrolls are still good prizes.

[rerp]

That being said, I once proposed an idea that join a Union would enable world PvP, but that got shot down.

 

GENIUS.

[Nereida]

Hard to say what to do about rewards, cause the Union rewards currently are crafting materials and a couple of costumes. With the Master Level merchant, at least one of them would be redundant.

 

That being said, I once proposed an idea that join a Union would enable world PvP, but that got shot down.

 

It has always been redundant anyways. Mats for both NPCs are already dropped by monsters. It wouldn't hurt to have a second option for mats besides spending your hardly earned master points.

 

Also, world PVP as in PK? Good riddance. I refuse to play any game that accepts PK, in my experience it always ends up being a source of robbery, abuse and harrassment.

[CMMaridah]

This is something we are open to proposing to development, so if you have more in detailed suggestions or ideas about union quests and specific rewards you'd like to see, please do voice those here.

[samsam2610]

For some odd reasons, I saw the title as "unicorn revamp" ;_;

Edited by samsam2610, 19 September 2014 - 05:21 PM.

[Warrantless]

Ok lets start then,,

 

I request to please include Monster DNA Box (Non-tradable) on union conversion points, instead of having different kind of token

why not make 1 standard token for all union (Pront, etc..) 

 

1. Remove BP union random box for colo rewards = It will be farmed by IMBA guilds who sleeps at WOE maps.

2. Add Union Warrior Box (Non-tradable) = Inside will be random chance to obtain phantom stone, spinels, pots and battle manuals. (All will be non-tradable)

3. Add Morroc city to Union quest = Reward will be Osiris, hemmel craft materials on random chance

4. Add Runes (BlueSeed and Redseed only) 

5. Add UNION MASTER Statue at prontera for daily basis = His/her buffs will double the points gain from union quest.

[Nereida]

Really, all I'd do  is just add osi/himmel craft mats to union rewards. Just that. Just price them in proportion to how many of them you'd usually need compared to their level 50 equivalent.

Maybe also add a quest or two to each union that deals with Day Desert, Osiris and Dark Whisper.

 

1. Remove BP union random box for colo rewards = It will be farmed by IMBA guilds who sleeps at WOE maps.

 

You single handedly killed colo.

[Telovi]

Union what?

[Warrantless]

Really, all I'd do  is just add osi/himmel craft mats to union rewards. Just that. Just price them in proportion to how many of them you'd usually need compared to their level 50 equivalent.

Maybe also add a quest or two to each union that deals with Day Desert, Osiris and Dark Whisper.

 

 

You single handedly killed colo.

 

LOL, guess what ? are you one of those guys who constantly killed farmers at WOE map?,  

 

If incase you are talking about colo, then its a different story, they should update the colo gears to higher TIER if they

want players to go for COLO.

I don't mind what you think but please respect other players opinion, you can post or suggest anything you like but not pointing out something about

what others post.

Edited by Warrantless, 20 September 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[Nereida]

LOL, guess what ? are you one of those guys who constantly killed farmers at WOE map?,  

 

If incase you are talking about colo, then its a different story, they should update the colo gears to higher TIER if they

want players to go for COLO.

I don't mind what you think but please respect other players opinion, you can post or suggest anything you like but not pointing out something about

what others post.

 

I went to WoE map once, saw how hard it was to kill a single sheep for 3 measly points and left to never return.

 

As it stands, the only incentive to get blood points is to buy union point boxes. If you take those away, there's no reason to go there unless you really like KS-based PVP.

[Greven79]

As I've written in another thread a few minutes ago, I'd love to see the union quests return in a proper way.

 

Master Level

The idea behind it is that there is a global currency (MP) and everything that improves your character requires you to spend these points. In that way, improvements stand in direct rivalry to each other.

 

What would you prefer? More skillpoints to max a passive skill that raises your damage output, more stat points that result in a similar bonus... or maybe more exotic things like a seedrune, a higher class level that alters the to-hit chances or gathering mats to get a Menace weapon for some edxtra DPS?

 

If done well, a character would have seemingly endless choices. BUT - and this is a huge BUT - things have to be balanced to work that way!

 

Union

The system is more like a centralized "Dailies" system. That means that you could simply remove all the dailies out there and distribute them among certain unions (you can keep the message boards though). So why aren't there any dayr desert, Osiris or DW quests for the specific unions, why no WoE or Jehoon quests either?

 

And of course, you could even bind the daily events to a certain union. We ought to hunt Drake every day right now? Why isn't that a Union quest instead? - There's even a similar one!!!  Just make sure that every union will get some events! Or why not implementing competetive union events at the same time?

 

This is something we are open to proposing to development, so if you have more in detailed suggestions or ideas about union quests and specific rewards you'd like to see, please do voice those here.

 

So you already got the answer - everything reward.based can be used in the Union system.

 

Event reward boxes

If I can hunt down Drake with all my alts (since reward boxes are tradeable) to get free Infinium, Lucky Powder, Blessing Powder or costumes, why not making it a temporarily reward for Union points instead?

 

WoE quests

Why just a lame message board? Gathering dusky grass or supply boxes as a merchant union quest? Well, who wouldn't liket 10min Wind Pots as a Union reward? You would avoid the 'anger' if some major guilds prevent others from doing the WoE dailies by making the reward accessible through other means and you could limit the quests to once or twice a week, so that there is no real issue behind camping Dusky and others.

 

Jehoon quests

Aren't there "Support Blessing Powder" rewards already? Easy thing to make that a union reward.

 

Coloseum attendance

Getting into the 3rd round gives you some Hunter-Union points? Why not! Just look at what the Coloseum reward boxes offer. Getting Blood Points or Trophies in addition doesn't hurt either.

 

Purple RHD boxes

Helping others through RHD would be cool for the Knightage Union.... and it doesn't matter how easy it is (can't be worse than pre-made Jehoon, pre-made Colo or a 10 man CD-raid). So no more RHD boxes, but more Union points instead.

 

Same with PvE boxes

I never understood, why Gravity ruined their own Union system by implementing Victory Points. So you could remove them - and the free purple boxes. Defeating all PvE monsters (except the Einherjar)  as a Hunter's union quest? I'd like it.

 

Seed rune (Boxes)

Where's the difficulty in doing Chaos Dungeon? Where is the fairness in camping the Queen or Jacks? And why do I have to do CD, when even Osiris gear has seed rune sockets? So you could remove the free boxes and make the seed runes a Union reward instead. You could even limit the green seeds to certain factions.

 

Darkness Shadow: power, curse, panic

Magic Academy: power, shock, panic

 

Prontera Knightage: armor, shield, dispel

Odin Orthodoxy: armor, cure, curse

 

Hunter: wind, cure, shock

Merchant Alliance: wind, shield, dispel

 

That's quite a bit random, I admit. But you could introduce some other unions or other seed runes to further balance it a bit. A noel union would be great (or an Academy of Fine Arts, Warfarer Guild), as well as some DoT triggering, XP or drop chance increasing seed runes.

 

Daily / hourly attendance

The rewards you get there can be easily transferred into the Union system. Players don't have to login with all their alts to get the Lucky Powders. And it could balance certain things, like running out of MP-protection essences, repair kits, etc.

 

Ranking rewards

Rather than doing "useless" stuff (like a pre-made JeHoon, refining random items, botting mermaids for cards, etc,) to get into the ranking, you could encourage players to do the same for Union points >_>. Instead of a class-based ranking, the system could include an inner-union or cross-union one.

 

Costume (sets)

If you are spamming players with free event costumes, why not add more union-specific costume parts. Rather than adding a high bonus to a single part/piece, you could also include a costume set bonus. And I'd like to see the level-up costumes in the union system instead, getting UPs as a main-quest reward.

 

Other options

Recipes, remote storage scrolls, remote guild storage access, remote mailbox, rune enhancement elixirs, pandora keys, battle manuals, thief pots, boost pots, costume expiry delay, repair boxes, elements + no elements, pollinium, union-specific mounts, union-specific DNA, etc..

 

This might be useful for orientation:

 

Darkness Shadow: AGI / Hit+Dodge / Sinister / Ranger + Assassin

Magic Academy: INT / Cast Speed / Destruction / Wizard + Crecentia

 

Prontera Knightage: VIT/ Parry / Life / Knight + Monk

Odin Orthodoxy: WIS / Vigor / Firmament / Priest + Soulmaker

 

Hunter: STR / Haste / Earth / Warrior + Beastmaster

Merchant Alliance: LUK / Crit. / no-element / Sorcerer + Rogue

 

Final Note

All in all, the Union System can be one of the major parts in this game up to the point, where you could call it "Union Wars 2" (Hope you get the hint).  You could even implement a Union-PvP map, etc. But the most important part would be to balance the quests for different player levels and to keep the quests interesting. Repeating the same Union quest every day will become lame soon enough.

Edited by Greven79, 23 September 2014 - 07:58 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

I'd prefer it if Union Points was converted into a reputation-leveling system instead. One less thing to clutter up my extremely limited bags.

[Telovi]

New collection of Union Costumes and Accessories will be a delight. 

[Shinyusuke]

Right now the hardest union quest is related to hard dungeons and give 6 union points as reward this is a bit outdated. The easiest think they can do is implement quests regarding already in game content that no one use ( who knows there are bosses inside the temples on dayr desert? )
Each union can kill 1 boss for 8 union points, 10 if you kill an osiris boss, 12 for the bosses in the new dungeons and maybe extra points of you kill all the bosses in a raid (this can be shared wetween the unions). For example clear coa wort 30 points, aod 40 and chaos dungeon 50 ( and please delete the green seedrunes).
The rewards can stay the same plus the addition of new material for the new gears. Costumes and accessories can need a double amount of points (since you gain more points whit the new quests) but costumes can gain additional perma stats:
Knightage: 500 VIT 100 parry
Darkness: 500 AGI 100 haste
Magic acc: 500 INT 100 cast speed
Odin orto: 500 WIS 100 accurancy
Hunter: 500 STR 100 dodge
Merchant: 2000 HP 2000 SP

I just trow numbers obviously 500 INT are not equal to 500 STR but that's the idea

[Nereida]

( who knows there are bosses inside the temples on dayr desert? )

There are? I went to explore a couple of them hidden the other day and all I could find were hordes of recicled monsters.

Knightage: 500 VIT 100 parry
Darkness: 500 AGI 100 haste
Magic acc: 500 INT 100 cast speed
Odin orto: 500 WIS 100 accurancy
Hunter: 500 STR 100 dodge
Merchant: 2000 HP 2000 SP

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Greven79]

Knightage: 500 VIT 100 parry
Darkness: 500 AGI 100 haste
Magic acc: 500 INT 100 cast speed
Odin orto: 500 WIS 100 accurancy
Hunter: 500 STR 100 dodge
Merchant: 2000 HP 2000 SP

 

For me, the interesting part here aren't the values but the allocation of stats towards a certain guild because I tried that in my last reply as well.

 

It seems there is a match for all the primary stats (str, agi, etc.), but we differ quite a bit on the secondary stats. Another alternative is, which seems to be a suggestion from here:

 

Spoiler

 

I think, the parry bonus for the knightage is an easy thing to agree on. As guards // defenders, it's the  primary job of the knights to protect the citicens and traveling folksmen.

 

Although we share cast speed for the Magic Academy, this wasn't an simple call for me. I think it would have been easier for me, if casting spells would mean something like gathering/stacking energy/mana to cause an effect. Then cast speed wouldn't just lower this pre-effect delay, but could allow for a higher maximum number of 'stacks' as well. That's why I wouldn't have called the stat intelligence, but most preferrably focus (or knowledge/concentration) instead. I added the Crecentia, not the Sorcerer, because the former represents the 'illusion' or 'necromancy' schools of magic and the latter seems too lively to fit.

 

I've allocated accuracy (hit) to the Darkness Shadow Union because a strike out of darkness / shadows will leave your opponents flat-footed. Nothing is worse than a long planned ambush that is ruined by an unlucky mishap. Since the lack of light also makes it harder to hit, I added dodge as well.

 

It might seem odd that the Hunter's union got haste and that the rangers aren't the main class here. For me, this union also represents the normads / mercenaries and the more aggressive / barbaric part. And since I suggested to divide the ATK bonus by the weapon speed (which includes haste as well), it actually means a sort of damage bonus.

 

The vigor for the Odin Orthodoxy wasn't that far off for me, because it represents some sort of (over-)commitment. That of course includes an inherent change of wisdom into willpower.

 

The Merchant Union was/is the most difficult part, because it somehow excludes combat-oriented benefits at all. But I'd prefer to keep all the Unions centered around both aspects. That's why I would reform it into a royal expedition corp, traveller / wayfarer union or hanseatic league... or even simplier => a trickster / gypsies guild. And that's finally the reason, why I added the critical bonus here.... and that's why I allocated the Sorcerer / Rogues.

Edited by Greven79, 24 September 2014 - 03:56 AM.

[Greven79]

I'd prefer it if Union Points was converted into a reputation-leveling system instead. One less thing to clutter up my extremely limited bags.

 

The "reputation" concept is included in form of the Khara (originally Charisma) system. So the khara points are the leveling XP and the khara titles your rewards. But of course, it could have been implemented in a much better way, that doesn't make all titles except the last one useless... and of course, it could have included either/or choices.
 

Edited by Greven79, 24 September 2014 - 04:03 AM.

[ZeroTigress]

The "reputation" concept is included in form of the Khara (originally Charisma) system. So the khara points are the leveling XP and the khara titles your rewards. But of course, it could have been implemented in a much better way, that doesn't make all titles except the last one useless... and of course, it could have included either/or choices.

Still would be a much better design than the current fill-up-your-bags points system.

[jhay1825]

I went to WoE map once, saw how hard it was to kill a single sheep for 3 measly points and left to never return.

As it stands, the only incentive to get blood points is to buy union point boxes. If you take those away, there's no reason to go there unless you really like KS-based PVP.

You can kill sheep in like 1 or 2 hits. Getting to that place is the hard part or if the people who camp would let you farm or do your daily in peace.

Most of the time WoE map becomes a Battleguild of certain guilds. And sometimes other players who arent involve get killed in the midst of the battle. All mobs in there are pretty easy to solo, except for the guardians at the fort but those are the ones you would wanna farm for BP. You need like a party at least or duo it to farm them. Those give like 3000BP per kill and the Boss thing gives 100000BP. Every mob except for the guardians give 30BP each kill, the boss types like Executer Meister as far as i know grants 9000BP.

Colo is probably the most probable way to earn BP, WoE map guardians wasnt suppose to be soloed to be able to farm BP's in the first place. So if you want colo gears or other stuff from the colo NPC, you will likely have to do Colosseum once in a while like everyone did before AoV.

On topic:

But yeah i agree. The materials in the union are so outdated that you pretty much have no use of them. If they can change it to AoV materials it would be better.

Edited by jhay1825, 24 September 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[aoi911]

All mobs in there are pretty easy to solo, except for the guardians at the fort but those are the ones you would wanna farm for BP. You need like a party at least or duo it to farm them. Those give like 3000BP per kill and the Boss thing gives 100000BP. Every mob except for the guardians give 30BP each kill, the boss types like Executer Meister as far as i know grants 9000BP.

 

That was an old story, now they boost all mobs in there (200% hp + atk power) but BP reward still the same , so lame

[9632130515120055620]

Knightage: 500 VIT 100 parry
Darkness: 500 AGI 100 haste
Magic acc: 500 INT 100 cast speed
Odin orto: 500 WIS 100 accurancy
Hunter: 500 STR 100 dodge
Merchant: 2000 HP 2000 SP

These are much, much too powerful - stats should be like 30 a piece as to not outphase costumes that people like to wear since it'd equal the same 3 slot, three +10 rune capabilities. 500 vit for a BM is 7500HP (12375 in grizzly), 500 agi for monk is 1500 dodge, 500 int for knight/warrior is 200% more crit damage, 500 str for cres is 3000 attack power.. you get the gist. Iron Cane has already had this effect and 3 slot lower face accessories don't hold the value that they did because iron cane is simply the best one, and everyone is forced to wear that ugly stuff instead of wearing what they like.

[yumiswiftshot123]

i suggest
-union costume have his own set effect
+30 to+50 agi int str wis will do + the accesory effect
-make union costume dyeble coz its look like
a dirty old costume
-if u will grant my two suggestion above make the
union costume x2 for its price

change the prizes of the union point to
- ml 20 set crafting matirials
- ml 30 set crafting matirials
- blue seed and red seed only random box
- pet dna random box
- zeny bag
- 20% exp manual
-20% - 50% drop rate manual


i want this coz im a farmer of blood point
and its not easy to farm it specially if u are farming
in woe coz someone will surely kill you
if you cannot depend yourself )
and colo if u cant survive you have no points
the only easier way to do farming bp is to
do daily quest and if u do that i think u will get
8 points a day

Edited by VModCherry, 29 September 2014 - 07:42 AM.