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#1 DestinyDeoxys

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 03:33 PM



This post isn't a rant post but basically my reaction, my thoughts regarding these major updates happened recently, I'm referring to the database/storage update and the gem update.



The storage database update is really nice, intelligent and convenient since you can swap items within the storage tab, with additional character storage, you guys have done a nice job on this.

But there was also a major change came along with this database update, the character/account bound or lock restriction update. I know you have explained the reason behind this change through those live stream and I looked through them a little bit. And it's been awhile since then, you know most people will complain right after the update and bla bla bla because they just need to take some time to adapt with the changes right? Well guess what, it's been a month or two, I honestly cannot adapt with such change still because after this bound/locked restriction thing caused one of my two mages go inactive/deactivated because I only got a set of equipment for one mage exactly, the other mage leveled to 230 for nothing. I used to have both PvP armor and PvM armor for my scout and will switch it to my raider when I want to play it. Well guess what? My raider needs to become a PvM character and my scout needs to become a PvP character due to such trade restriction.

I totally understand what you are trying to do with this trade restriction thing, you want us to invest more time and effort onto one character, so we can feel so rewarding and proud of it because we actually took the time and effort to earn it right?

On top of that, you also want to have some sort of an item drain in the market to prevent the market from "looked like" less flooded with honor armors because people are now stuck with their honor armor that has no resell value.



Now, here comes the problem I want to point out with such bound/lock restriction.

1 ) How do you think the low points fighters are going to continue to exist in PvP game arena such as CD, AA and DP? I'm referring to bow scouts, xbow scouts, knights, xbow knights and mages. The old players who obtain them ahead are fine, but what about the new players that start out freshly?

2 ) I'm one of those people that feel pissed when I see people joining a dungeon like cave of ulverick, hall of oblivion or sea of dawn with a bow scouts, xbow scouts, artisan, gunbourgs, xbow knights, axe champ or battle cleric. It is fine for katar and dual raider since they are useful for fighting boss. Then I think twice, they were not trying to piss me off deliberately because they just want to earn themselves some valor points to get whatever courage weapon and courage/brave armors because these items are character locked.
Dungeons are all about clerics/AOE champs/mage/1-hand knight/raider. But what is wrong with people using the other classes? The people who do not use them will think the people who use them are leeching and the people who use them will be ashamed for leeching even though they are trying with their best. If things gone wrong, vote kicking might occur a lot more frequently.

3 ) Even if you do manage to get over 1) and 2) finally and get the required honor points valor points, how long do you think they need to save in order to get enough for refining their stuff to (15)? You might think you don't need (15), just get (10) right? But didn't you say ROSE online is not a pay to win game? I thought (15) should be accessible by everyone no matter what. Without venurune or plutorune, you just simply will not get to (15) ever. So the question is, when will the mystic charm and protective  amulet be usable?

4 ) As I said earlier, many of my characters were active but deactivated after the trade bound/lock restriction occured, and why would I not be bothered to regain them back? Yes, you heard it "REgain", things are already obtained in the past and has existed for over 4 years (I'm referring to those honor armor), I just simply do not have funds to refine these bloody expensive honor armors anymore. It is easily affordable for paid users, but for free loaders like me, how long do you think I need to take to "REgain" these armor back? Long, repetitive and not worth it.




So, my take on the trade bound/lock restriction update is this.

You are 8 years late (how ever long this game existed) to implement such restriction update. Many of the MMORPG out there, it might be normal for people to play one character through out the whole lifespan of the game, but ROSE online is something different that you need to play several characters to continue because it is lacking content. The way how you extend the game length recently by introducing these trade restriction thing to make people to re-do their stuff over and over when they make new characters isn't extending the game length exactly, it is just slowing us down becuase you said your development team cannot produce enough content faster than the rate at which players consuming the content, it is the other way around. The way how you change things right now is like triple spacing your essay when your teacher tell you to double space your essay.

Now, you introduced many partial passive in the valor shop and honor shop to extend the game length, these partial passives are like gun iron blessing with these prefix like Novice, Apprentice, Disciple, Adept, Master. They are perfectly fine, because they are something reward you for being a dedicated fighters, not something that is extending the game length. Well guess what? You can buy these things on item mall. LEL :rofl:





Going back to what I said in regards to how you want people to play one character than playing multiple characters, you wanted people to spend more time and effort onto one character, so they feel more rewarding and stuff. In my opinion, at the current circumstances, you don't have enough content to implement such thing "play one character more than playing multiple characters" because you don't have enough content to fulfill it. You just don't have enough side mission, task, achievement but boring quest to make the life span of leveling from Lv.1 through Lv.230 exciting.

It works like this,

1) make a Lv.1 visitor
2) get it to Lv.230 by grinding half year depends on how much item mall you use
3) get gear for game arena dungeons and PvP game arena
4) the end
5) afk till you quit



Why do people want to rush to 230 so badly? Because being 230 is omnipotent, you can farm everything at full power, better in PvP/PvM, nothing exclusive that is actually worth it by playing low level dungeons. There is absolutely no low level PvP games going on, it is all about being 230 and I don't think you can do anything to change this because people invest their IM points on all those passive, funds invest on gear, they are more likely to stay on their main than playing new noobs all over.


Many people do not realize how the new skill system has a flaw that only noobs can see it but people that are already at 230 will not see it. Before I go into it, you are now under the assumption that you will be spending soooo much time into getting yourself from Lv.1 to Lv.230, there are 229 level up's right there, and 221 SP gained. And it is 2014, leveling is not a joke, it is not something that can be done within a month anymore. Now, think about grinding that much, what do you get? Take a closer look at Cleric and Mage skill bar. Can you tell me what's the difference compare to the other class skill bar? (I do not have the remaining class skill bar picture to show)

VKEDnIG.jpg

Spoiler








I know there is just no way you will revert the trade bound/lock changes right now, but just saying you need to work on the content within playing one character (skill tree is only one of the things you do, there are many things you need to add to make the 230 levels adventure worthwhile) instead of adding these partial passive that you introduced in the valor shop/honor shop. It is the only option you can go for, otherwise who will bother to grind those 230 levels? And who will bother to grind those honor/valor points?



Finally, these are just random things that get on my nerves while playing.

1 ) Party level up mechancis should not depends on how many purple monsters you killed, because leveling at 220+ is so depressing. It should depend on how long your party in active combat.

2 ) I still bothered by this equipment change cool down a little, I understand you don't want people to change gear while fighting, but my cleric was just buffing/healing, why does it count as combat? I couldn't change gear for awhile right after I buff/heal.

3 ) CD/AA/DP even cleric requirement, let's face it, there is just no way you can make PvP games or any thing happen smoothly in ROSE without a cleric. You need to bring back cleric requirement, you said such requirement will slow down the queue, but what's the point to start a CD/AA/DP so fast without a balanced number of cleric? You don't want a CD/AA/DP to start without a cleric and you don't want a COU/HOO/SOD to start without a cleric either.


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#2 ChampPower

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:13 PM

This game has so much potential, but it runs to the ground mostly because the DEV team focus on the wrong goal. If the players are happy, the revenue will follow. If they are not happy, the revenue will not increase no matter what DEV Team does. That is exactly where the problem is. DEV Team focus its attention on IM and how to make people spend more, even at the expense of the players' happiness. That leads to the drop of revenue and the endless cycle of IM. Just take the latest update, for example, they claimed the game is not pay 2 win, but if we look at the time requirement for getting the passive, the result says otherwise. Push IM on us as you will, but we are not stupid, and we remember how we are treated. There are lot of online game out there. In the worst case, we can simply play other game. League of legend is one of other fun games we can play.

Edited by ChampPower, 20 September 2014 - 06:17 PM.

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#3 iMatt

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:41 PM

Overall I have always seen the latest patches since the big skillpatch as essential "base-patches" that are neccessary for big content patches (planets etc.); but certain parts of this latest patch are in my eyes just attempts to make money.


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#4 LexLoyalty

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 04:50 PM

Overall I have always seen the latest patches since the big skillpatch as essential "base-patches" that are neccessary for big content patches (planets etc.); but certain parts of this latest patch are in my eyes just attempts to make money.

 

And most probably they are. 

No one wants to work for free and I'm pretty sure warportal put great pressure to generate revenue 


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#5 Leeny

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 05:47 PM


This post isn't a rant post but basically my reaction, my thoughts regarding these major updates happened recently, I'm referring to the database/storage update and the gem update.



The storage database update is really nice, intelligent and convenient since you can swap items within the storage tab, with additional character storage, you guys have done a nice job on this.

But there was also a major change came along with this database update, the character/account bound or lock restriction update. I know you have explained the reason behind this change through those live stream and I looked through them a little bit. And it's been awhile since then, you know most people will complain right after the update and bla bla bla because they just need to take some time to adapt with the changes right? Well guess what, it's been a month or two, I honestly cannot adapt with such change still because after this bound/locked restriction thing caused one of my two mages go inactive/deactivated because I only got a set of equipment for one mage exactly, the other mage leveled to 230 for nothing. I used to have both PvP armor and PvM armor for my scout and will switch it to my raider when I want to play it. Well guess what? My raider needs to become a PvM character and my scout needs to become a PvP character due to such trade restriction.

I totally understand what you are trying to do with this trade restriction thing, you want us to invest more time and effort onto one character, so we can feel so rewarding and proud of it because we actually took the time and effort to earn it right?

On top of that, you also want to have some sort of an item drain in the market to prevent the market from "looked like" less flooded with honor armors because people are now stuck with their honor armor that has no resell value.



Now, here comes the problem I want to point out with such bound/lock restriction.

1 ) How do you think the low points fighters are going to continue to exist in PvP game arena such as CD, AA and DP? I'm referring to bow scouts, xbow scouts, knights, xbow knights and mages. The old players who obtain them ahead are fine, but what about the new players that start out freshly?

2 ) I'm one of those people that feel pissed when I see people joining a dungeon like cave of ulverick, hall of oblivion or sea of dawn with a bow scouts, xbow scouts, artisan, gunbourgs, xbow knights, axe champ or battle cleric. It is fine for katar and dual raider since they are useful for fighting boss. Then I think twice, they were not trying to piss me off deliberately because they just want to earn themselves some valor points to get whatever courage weapon and courage/brave armors because these items are character locked.
Dungeons are all about clerics/AOE champs/mage/1-hand knight/raider. But what is wrong with people using the other classes? The people who do not use them will think the people who use them are leeching and the people who use them will be ashamed for leeching even though they are trying with their best. If things gone wrong, vote kicking might occur a lot more frequently.

3 ) Even if you do manage to get over 1) and 2) finally and get the required honor points valor points, how long do you think they need to save in order to get enough for refining their stuff to (15)? You might think you don't need (15), just get (10) right? But didn't you say ROSE online is not a pay to win game? I thought (15) should be accessible by everyone no matter what. Without venurune or plutorune, you just simply will not get to (15) ever. So the question is, when will the mystic charm and protective  amulet be usable?

4 ) As I said earlier, many of my characters were active but deactivated after the trade bound/lock restriction occured, and why would I not be bothered to regain them back? Yes, you heard it "REgain", things are already obtained in the past and has existed for over 4 years (I'm referring to those honor armor), I just simply do not have funds to refine these bloody expensive honor armors anymore. It is easily affordable for paid users, but for free loaders like me, how long do you think I need to take to "REgain" these armor back? Long, repetitive and not worth it.




So, my take on the trade bound/lock restriction update is this.

You are 8 years late (how ever long this game existed) to implement such restriction update. Many of the MMORPG out there, it might be normal for people to play one character through out the whole lifespan of the game, but ROSE online is something different that you need to play several characters to continue because it is lacking content. The way how you extend the game length recently by introducing these trade restriction thing to make people to re-do their stuff over and over when they make new characters isn't extending the game length exactly, it is just slowing us down becuase you said your development team cannot produce enough content faster than the rate at which players consuming the content, it is the other way around. The way how you change things right now is like triple spacing your essay when your teacher tell you to double space your essay.

Now, you introduced many partial passive in the valor shop and honor shop to extend the game length, these partial passives are like gun iron blessing with these prefix like Novice, Apprentice, Disciple, Adept, Master. They are perfectly fine, because they are something reward you for being a dedicated fighters, not something that is extending the game length. Well guess what? You can buy these things on item mall. LEL :rofl:





Going back to what I said in regards to how you want people to play one character than playing multiple characters, you wanted people to spend more time and effort onto one character, so they feel more rewarding and stuff. In my opinion, at the current circumstances, you don't have enough content to implement such thing "play one character more than playing multiple characters" because you don't have enough content to fulfill it. You just don't have enough side mission, task, achievement but boring quest to make the life span of leveling from Lv.1 through Lv.230 exciting.

It works like this,

1) make a Lv.1 visitor
2) get it to Lv.230 by grinding half year depends on how much item mall you use
3) get gear for game arena dungeons and PvP game arena
4) the end
5) afk till you quit



Why do people want to rush to 230 so badly? Because being 230 is omnipotent, you can farm everything at full power, better in PvP/PvM, nothing exclusive that is actually worth it by playing low level dungeons. There is absolutely no low level PvP games going on, it is all about being 230 and I don't think you can do anything to change this because people invest their IM points on all those passive, funds invest on gear, they are more likely to stay on their main than playing new noobs all over.


Many people do not realize how the new skill system has a flaw that only noobs can see it but people that are already at 230 will not see it. Before I go into it, you are now under the assumption that you will be spending soooo much time into getting yourself from Lv.1 to Lv.230, there are 229 level up's right there, and 221 SP gained. And it is 2014, leveling is not a joke, it is not something that can be done within a month anymore. Now, think about grinding that much, what do you get? Take a closer look at Cleric and Mage skill bar. Can you tell me what's the difference compare to the other class skill bar? (I do not have the remaining class skill bar picture to show)

VKEDnIG.jpg

Spoiler








I know there is just no way you will revert the trade bound/lock changes right now, but just saying you need to work on the content within playing one character (skill tree is only one of the things you do, there are many things you need to add to make the 230 levels adventure worthwhile) instead of adding these partial passive that you introduced in the valor shop/honor shop. It is the only option you can go for, otherwise who will bother to grind those 230 levels? And who will bother to grind those honor/valor points?



Finally, these are just random things that get on my nerves while playing.

1 ) Party level up mechancis should not depends on how many purple monsters you killed, because leveling at 220+ is so depressing. It should depend on how long your party in active combat.

2 ) I still bothered by this equipment change cool down a little, I understand you don't want people to change gear while fighting, but my cleric was just buffing/healing, why does it count as combat? I couldn't change gear for awhile right after I buff/heal.

3 ) CD/AA/DP even cleric requirement, let's face it, there is just no way you can make PvP games or any thing happen smoothly in ROSE without a cleric. You need to bring back cleric requirement, you said such requirement will slow down the queue, but what's the point to start a CD/AA/DP so fast without a balanced number of cleric? You don't want a CD/AA/DP to start without a cleric and you don't want a COU/HOO/SOD to start without a cleric either.

 

40+ players between my 2 clans have stopped playing since these acct locks. My clans are inactive now because they cannot/will not keep taking these detrimental changes. Now I see it being impossible for new players to ever obtain +15 honor(the ones that don't spend $) since they dropped Lisent values by 1/2, and that's basing it off if they are able to farm the at least 2 honor/1 brave(or rein) sets most people need/use.
 


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#6 Gojio

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 06:49 PM

Very accurate analysis, it's a shame what people do for a few extra bucks. Gratification should come by doing what you love to do, and in this case, by making efforts to create an enjoyable game where players should be happy to spend money for the product, instead of feeling forced to. This is what the devs have never understood and will never understand.

Over the years there have been hundreds of amazing suggestion which I, if I were a developer who actually knew the game, would have happily embraced. But it's never been and never will be like this, and now it's too late.

Sadly, I can't say I'm surprised...



Ps: making the honor gear account bound would have been fine too, character bound is just exaggerating.
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#7 iMatt

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 08:39 PM

Ps: making the honor gear account bound would have been fine too, character bound is just exaggerating.

 

If you start making exceptions you can also fully skip the whole idea, i guess we all were no retards and use(d) serveral characters on same accounts for faster item swaps
 

 

And most probably they are. 

No one wants to work for free and I'm pretty sure warportal put great pressure to generate revenue 

 

Yes, of course not, but despite the fact that these passives completly ruin the pvp balance (once again), I would still prefer other ways (like more/new/different costumes etc., since I don't know their sales-numbers I can't tell you what runs well and what not).

I for example have always had premium on at least one account since it exists, just as "i support warpportal" statement, even when I took breaks from Rose.


Edited by iMatt, 20 September 2014 - 08:42 PM.

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#8 pdfisher

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Posted 20 September 2014 - 11:34 PM

Not everything done here maybe be the dev's fault. They do have bosses too, and sometimes their bosses say "do this", and it has to be done, even if the dev's think it is detrimental to the game. This is a business after all, not a charity.


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#9 Filipito98

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 02:47 AM

Well about skills i agree, but not 70%, 90% of players use most of passives, and have less ative skills, thats y im not impressed in a katar raider do many kills in CD, wat they do? upgrade atack speed, upgrade crit (upgrade also ap i thing), spam normal atacks, few stuns, sleep, done, idk were's the fun in that ..... just normal atacks lol rlly? :|, wat im building atm is a raider dual, cause HE is most the only in hawker class WHO rlly focus in atack skills, without atack skills raider dual is scks, those who tell than raider dual skills is op than see how is raider katar, or maybe bow scout or xbow scout, even maybe 2 hand sword, wat i see most in raiders duals is just spam debuffs, not even funny :\

about CD team well is more or less like WoW but there is like 60% than one team have all clerics and other dont have (all clerics queued), thats the only problem i see, they should do 50/50 (check cleric class (skills) and if is FS gd put in one team, if is just one cleric is also np one cleric in one team and other without, but ik there's always 2 clerics queueing into the GA pvp)

about equip in pvp areas, dunno, last times it was worst, changing a cleric FS set for a pvp one lol ..... or even a FS pvp one :\, or maybe even a bow to xbow and shield e_e, im happy than they can change the equip if they arent in combat.

and yeah i agree with pdfisher, isnt dev fault, them just 3 wat u expect? if u guys wana a big dev team gd, go work there (screw if is free or screw if they pay u, u guys wana keep playing rose or no???), more or less in rose is like 1k players (i thing), but about chars is like 5k (multi clients) around that 5k like 10% get banned lol, dont also blame devs for they ban u, selling accs/items for real money, using 3rd party programs (bot), scam players, harass, dudes that's against the rules, u guys are just acting like retards is like "is np devs will never find out" i would laught lots if one of u game friends would tell devs wat u guys did like scam, boting, etc, devs will always find out, stop act like inocent in tickets and tell true.

@gojio. yeah maybe acc bound would be fair, soo it wasnt need to send many tickets, i bet also them inbox is like totally full of tickets, btw isnt char bound is char lock (correcting: "maybe acc lock would be fair)

about char lock devs want they play more rose, they wana keep the game alive, it wasnt no problem having acc lock soo maybe there might was MORE clerics in pvp areas (full team of clerics vs full team of clerics LOOOOOL!)

@leeny: i thing u remember origins and maybe most of ppl remember, that clan just got ultra inative maybe most of this, no need to blame devs, but 99% of the clan got like inative due work, EVEN CM (he/she left us soo yah im carring a clan with inative members wich no one on even cm for check or take again the clan .... wich made me kinda mad e_e

there still need to change soo many stuffs, make players use more skills than spaming normal atacks .-. ....., and ofc not spaming only aoes, thats atm CD nowadays (get mage/spear champ/2 hand sword/axe, get in mid of the Battleground, spam aoes to the death :\)

peace~


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#10 lolmetimbers89

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 06:46 AM

Let me just say that rose will always be loved and had potential, if only it had developers like Destiny working on it. A shame really it was not meant to be.

Edited by lolmetimbers89, 21 September 2014 - 06:47 AM.

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#11 Leeny

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Posted 21 September 2014 - 01:52 PM

Let me just say that rose will always be loved and had potential, if only it had developers like Destiny working on it. A shame really it was not meant to be.

 

Indeed.


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