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What's happening in Hong Kong with protests?


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#1 Vosk

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 03:31 PM

http://www.blacklist...l#disqus_thread

 

As you can see China looks to be about to go Tiananmen Square again, this time in Hong Kong.

 

Considering the near uselessnes of most media outlets, where it's not always possible for the layman to discern between truth and propaganda, I would like to request real-time or contemporaneous updates in this thread from Warpportal users who are either in HK or surrounding areas who are in a position to know what is really happening on the ground.

 

Thank you.


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#2 Miochuwaan

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Posted 28 September 2014 - 05:30 PM

Cmon, really? Its useless people that want to know something go to news sites or plainly just reddit. Nobody will look here stuff up. But hey, atleast you tried.


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#3 Vosk

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 02:59 AM

You must have missed that bit where I mentioned most media is useless.  It's better to have no information and guess than get information from liars.

 

That's why I asked here.  I know for a fact this company's games have players who could probably describe what they saw first hand.

 

But hey, at least you trolled.


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#4 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 06:10 AM

That isn't very "blacklisted". It's practically a carbon copy of what I saw on the evening news today.

 

I'd love to ask why you even care but it's plain to see you just want more fodder to morph into anarchist and conspiracist bullcrap. You're just as bad as the "mass media" you so vehemently decry.

 

There are riots. It's due to the very autocratic imposition of rules on who can be elected and why. Despite this the majority of the population gave no -_-s and most of the country ran as normal, at least until business hours were over. Then people who weren't anti-government fanatics (sound familiar?), labour workers and bright-eyed students were able to join in. People were arrested trying to get past what could be classified as the "safe zone" and tear gas was fired. The riot police did a stupendously bad job at keeping the protest in line anyway, in part due to the fact that the whole arresting and gassing thing was witnessed and spread around, and they had to withdraw. The government stated that it was taking the path of least resistance with regards to suppression on numerous occasions but that has proven to be bull-_-. The protesters now occupy a surprisingly large number of high-traffic areas.

 

What else do you want to hear?


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#5 Cleffy

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 05:54 PM

I think these are the last attempts by China to keep Communism. Its clear as day China is moving further away from Communism and at the heart of it is Hong Kong. Heck right now China is more Capitalist than the United States.


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#6 Vosk

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Posted 29 September 2014 - 06:14 PM

What else I want to hear is the sort of detail from men and women, hell even children on the ground, the sort of detail you claim I'm bonkers for wanting. 

 

This is the sort of detail I was looking for.  I found it on another site from a poster with reasonable credibility by my estimation and it's thoroughly detailed.

 

So, here's what's going on in Hong Kong currently, for anyone interested in facts, not trolling:

 

 

post by Vigithunor

September 29, 2014 at 1:30 pm

As an expat who has lived in Hong Kong for over a decade, and speaks, reads, and writes the local dialect fluently, I can personally attest to the situation in Hong Kong. I have spoken to senior secondary students, university students, and adults, as well as local small business owners. I am writing this comment because I feel that the BBC and CNN articles do not come close to the reality.

First of all, CNN says “Not everyone supports the protests”. This is blatant disinformation, in tandem with the news agencies in China claiming that “Hong Kong people are ‘celebrating’ national day early”. Yeah right, just as abortion clinics are ‘celebrating’ life. There is an anti-occupy central group, but this is not a genuine, spontaneous, grass roots movement, but rather, is sponsored and paid for by the China government, along with their ’50 cent army’ paid to delete posts from forums that are critical of the regime. They have professional and expensive advertisement campaigns on television, with carefully selected key words using NLP (neuro linguistic programming) such as “against violence” and “safe” along with images of a cute adorable young female child holding a flower, to incept ideologies to pacify and tranquilize and evoke an emotional response of compliance, appealing to the innate cowardice of the sheeple masses. But it is not working, because the sheeple’s anger at being out of options is over-riding their fear. Furthermore, the local trade associations have “required” anti-occupy central signatures from the wealthy and middle class, with the unspoken and understood threat of economic consequences if business owners do not sign. They claim that 1.5 million people signed support statements against the occupy central, which is a blatant lie that any senior secondary student can see through. Finally, I was personally witness to the anti-occupy central protest just days before the 1st July commemoration of the Hand Over and return of Hong Kong to China, but this anti-protest protest, was held days before the 1 July date and in anticipation of the genuine and massive protests by students and citizens, some as old as 80 or as young as 8. The anti-protest, was lackadaisical, employing and clearly paying money, to a pitiful handful, no more than 100, of old retirees and homeless bums, who unenthusiastically and robotically repeated whatever slogans they were commanded to. They were clearly on the dole. Such “anti” groups are a common sight in Hong Kong after 97′; for example there is also the anti-Fa Lun Gong, another false protest group sponsored by the China government with professional banners in both English and Chinese and protesting “against” but not “for” something. People protest because they want something, not to stop or quell something; to be an anti is to ultimately have no position, postulate, nor thesis. This is a clear sign of a frantic and haphazard attempt at sheepherding and obfuscation to divide and conquer by the China government.

No. The reality in Hong Kong is that EVERYONE supports the protests, from junior secondary students as young as 13, to small business owners, one can see both students and working professionals going about with the yellow ribbon proudly pinned on their clothing in support of the demonstrations. The only exception are local residents who are intelligent and savvy enough, as well as worldly, hard bitten, jaded, and properly pessimistic enough to know, as Tien An Men massacre so eloquently demonstrated, that no amount of peaceful protesting will ever bring about any positive change in Hong Kong, or anywhere else for that matter.

The reason why people want true and fair elections, is not for reasons of ideology or politics, but rather, practical, economic reasons, specifically, survival.

For example, 95% of Hong Kong people have no chance and no hope to ever own their own flat. Many of the younger ones have started openly saying “Who says you need to own your own home to be happy?” The reason for this is that of the 7,000,000 people in Hong Kong, if 1% are rich, contrasted to if of the 1,400,000,000 people in China, 1% of them are rich, and 1% of the 1% rich decide that rather than put money in the bank and collect interest, it is a better investment to buy a flat in Hong Kong, wait 2-3 years, and double your money, even without living there, then we have 70,000 rich in Hong Kong who are being out bid by 140,000 1% of the 1% rich in China, or a 1:2 ratio, which is precisely why small restaurants that make top quality hand made dumplings at a competitive cost that ordinary people can afford and have been doing so for more than 30 years, are suddenly informed by their landlord that their rent next month has doubled from 180,000HK (23,166$) to 360,000HK (46,332$), no negotiation, pay or get out. One such restaurant owner told me “After crunching the numbers, at that rent, in order to break even, I would have to sell a single bowl of noodles for 90HK (11.58$), no one will pay 90HK for a single dish when now most set lunches for working professionals go for 45HK”.

There is more:

1. One Hong Kong man whose parents 1 generation ago had 12 children, has confided in me that even though he works 7 days a week between his full time job in addition to his own small business that he owns, and his wife also has a full time job, that between the two of them, he’s done the math and concluded, they just can’t afford to have a baby.

2. Another woman who works as a beautician and sales staff for a high end luxury brand, Chanel, similarly told me, that her and her husband decided it is simply too expensive to have a baby.

3. A 16 year old Hong Kong girl told me, “In Hong Kong today, people love to buy a dog, because a dog is a cheaper baby; you do not have to pay for the education fee of the dog.”

4. Nearly all Hong Kong people remain living with their parents, even up to their mid 40’s, or even permanently, at least until they get married, that is to say, until they get a partner to help pay the rent, for it is quite impossible for a single income family to rent a flat considering the average income is 11,000HK and the average rent is 10,000HK, simply put, it takes at least 2 incomes just to survive in abject poverty.

5. Some young married couples remain living separately, each spouse with their own parents, just to save money, and get together once a week on the weekend and date, almost like boyfriend and girlfriend, when in fact they are married, and cannot afford to get their own flat despite each spouse having a full time job.

6. There was a news story of a young Hong Kong man who had a full time job earning 22,000HK monthly salary, but chose to sleep in the streets homeless, because between his student loans and supporting his parents, he could not afford to rent a flat.

7. The average Hong Kong person commutes 1.5 hours a day, some 2.5 hours, plus for the overwhelming majority, a 9 to 5 job is a fantasy; the reality is closer to 8 to 8, or more. The typical Hong Kong person works 6-7 days a week, well over 60 hours per week, which is double a full time police officer in America. So basically 1 person is doing 2 people’s worth of work, which is an attempt to compensate for the reality of…

8. …the cost of living, services, transportation, milk, food, everything, consistently goes up, but the salary never goes up. The market reaction to this, has been for employers to delegate the same amount of work to fewer employees, ie, cutting costs. There is a palpable and unspoken fear among the people here that if they lose their job they will die, so almost everyone will acquiesce and quietly do the overtime work for free, as is expected, with the more lucky ones getting not pay, but time off, as compensation, which sounds nice, but ultimately they are doing extra work for no extra pay.

9. 20 years ago, an English teacher could make 50,000HK a month. Today, he is lucky if he can get 20,000HK.

10. 20 years ago, a yoga teacher in Hong Kong could command no less than 500HK per hour. Today, the going rate is 180HK.

11. I know an Indian family, surviving in a 400 square foot flat, with 2 aged parents, a young pregnant daughter and her young husband, that’s 4, soon to be 5 people, 3 generations, living in 400 square feet, and the only reason they can survive is because they managed to get government subsidized housing, a long and arduous process which takes 7 years, not everyone is informed enough to do, and even if they were, there’s not enough for everyone. This is a rather typical situation.

12. It has gotten to the point that if one does not have government subsidized housing, even fully employed, they are working for food.

13. Most Hong Kong people sleep no more than 5 hours sleep per night, which has consequences to their health such as causing grey fully white hairs in children as young as 13, stunted growth, not reaching full height, heart problems, obesity, weak immunity, etc. When asked why don’t they sleep more, invariably the response is “No time. Too much homework/work.”

14. One taxi driver told me he drives 12 hours a day, and gives himself 1 day off every 60 days.

15. The birth rate in Hong Kong has fallen to 1.0 children birthed on average per couple. This is the death of the city, for 7,000,000 in 1 generation will become 3,500,000, a 50% decline in population. The reason? Money. In the past, buying a Rolex or Mercedes was how you flaunted wealth; today, it’s to have a baby.

Ultimately, it is not so much the fact that the Mainland Chinese come to Hong Kong and buy up all the apartments, milk powder, have anchor babies to get HK residence, take up all the hospital beds so locals can’t get a bed when they need to see the doctor, which has caused a decline in the standards and quality of medical services in Hong Kong over the past 20 years – in fact today, many people know that the best hospitals in Asia, are the top quality hospitals in India – , or the fact that they are rude in public, defecate on the subway MTR platform or in the street, so much as the fact that, there is a growing panic as the reality that Hong Kong people cannot survive, buy a flat, get married, have a kid, live a decent life.

In the end, what Hong Kong people care about, is not the meat puppet butler who seats the “chief executive” post; what they care about is money, which in Hong Kong translates to, LIFE. As one Hong Kong taxi driver put it “In Hong Kong, if you have a job, you will be ok, but if you lose your job, you will die.”

People are protesting, not because they are ‘dissatisfied’, but because many are increasingly realizing that they have nothing to lose.

It is going to continue, at least until Chinese national day on 1 October, and very likely to 3 October. Tanks have already been photographed in the city, the urban variety with tired wheels rather than treads, and many have a sense of Tien An Men Massacre 2, which the situation certainly does bear some similarities, namely that it was later discovered that George Soros was behind the failed coup attempt that became Tien An Men Massacre, whereas students participating in the protests are being given free water, towels, and food. Someone is paying for that. Cui bonno?

However, it is safe to say that China cannot afford to lose face at having their national celebration day turn into a bloody fiasco, so they are in fact, afraid of the students and trying to plead with them, and will avoid stomping their boot down, which is what they really want to do. The police have already pointed AK47’s at the students, though they claim to be loaded only with rubber bullets. Guess there’s one way to find out. They have already used tear gas on many people, students and adults. The newspapers lie in Hong Kong, claiming only 60,000 people participated in the protests when the actual numbers are well over 100,000, with simultaneous protests in Central, Admiralty, Causeway Bay, Mong Kok, all the busiest districts, almost completely shutting down traffic.

I know that China doesn’t want to draw international condemnation on a place as iphone addicted as Hong Kong, with wifi everywhere because Tien An Men 2 with live streaming upload capability and 10 million smart phones, makes for a publicity nightmare for China – then again, the police already shut down cell phone network service last night to attempt to stop communication and coordination between student groups, instagram has been completely shut down in China, and any posts or photos uploaded to China websites by Hong Kong citizens are automatically deleted – so most likely China will not be brutal, for now, even though brutality is the Chinese way if you take a look at their history. After national day celebration is another story; then again students and civic activists specifically target the major national days on purpose.

There is an internal struggle in the Chinese government both to show force, maintain order, and simultaneously to show restraint, and for now the latter is holding sway. There is fear in the upper echelons of government that if they make concessions to Hong Kong, then many other districts in China will follow suit and start making demands. The government fears losing control, and for this reason, would rather face global censure and condemnation for use of brutal force, than to make compromises and lose control. It is acceptable if the party is viewed as brutal, but it is not acceptable if the party is viewed as weak.

The relationship of Hong Kong with China is bitter sweet. On the one hand, China does not want Hong Kong to be prosperous, that’s why they ceded it to the British in the first place, because it is not and never has been important to them. If the standard of living in Hong Kong remains higher than Shanghai or Beijing, and it still is, which is why so many rich people from Shanghai and Beijing buy apartments in Hong Kong, then China feels it loses face, because the English built Hong Kong, not China, so they cannot rightfully claim responsibility for that prosperity, thus all policies that allow mainlanders to exploit Hong Kong are allowed. On the other hand, China does not want Hong Kong to completely die, for their corrupt politicians have hidden their ill got loot in Hong Kong real estate development for decades, which is why prices always go up, and whenever they threaten to fall because supply exceeds demand and greed exceeds prospects, the government simply dumps a few more trillion RMB into the market to artificially buoy it. Oh, that, and the money laundering enterprises that can be seen everywhere to the astute observer, for instance, prime location gigantic restaurants that are always empty, yet somehow never go out of business = money laundering operation to make stolen funds appear legit; just what did you think ‘financial services’ really meant.

So Hong Kong is viewed by China as their stepchild: they don’t really want it, but can’t kill it, and want to exploit it for money while pushing it below Shanghai and Beijing.

Not exactly working though. I have rich Chinese friends from Shanghai and Beijing, and they prefer to live in 400 square feet apartment on one of the posh islands in Hong Kong rather than in a 3000 square foot 3 floor veritable palace in Shanghai, with a bizarre mixture of ersatz art, lending it an affected and confused hollow kitsch quality. Why? Better air, and water.

Earth, and water. Never forget it brothers.

If the police and government have poise and patience, the students will tire themself out within the week and peacefully go home. But I do not expect that to happen. I expect a more forceful attempt by the authorities to intimidate and force the protestors to back down. To me, I view it as a test and gauge of the depth of strength of the current China leadership. If they are strong, they will wait, quietly and patiently. If they are weak, they will start killing students.

I further predict, what is happening in Hong Kong now will soon happen globally, due to economic collapse. Hong Kong is a place where you can plant your feet on a street corner and without moving, count 17 different banks within sight. Everybody wants to make money without producing, without working, high finance they call it, so they play the property market, stock market… the problem is when people who are working hard yet still can’t make ends meet, get fed up, well, Hong Kong people are the biggest pussies and cowards in the world, so they are protesting, peacefully. No cars have been tipped over, no shops looted, no stores smashed. When these types of riots begin in America, it’s World War Z.

 


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#7 explicid17

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 05:31 PM

Vosk know anything about Ebola virus being created by America and spread around to depopulate high populated areas? Saw some stuff on twitter about the goverment trying to delete information about Ebola off google.


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#8 Talvis

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 08:08 PM

Vosk know anything about Ebola virus being created by America and spread around to depopulate high populated areas? Saw some stuff on twitter about the goverment trying to delete information about Ebola off google.

Please tell me you don't believe conspiracy theories like that?


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#9 explicid17

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:28 AM

no lol but its possible America has done some horrible things in the past...like enslave a whole race of people


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#10 KyrieDielle

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 07:34 AM

blame Napoleon.


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#11 ZeroTigress

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 10:22 AM

no lol but its possible America has done some horrible things in the past...like enslave a whole race of people


There have been many countries that enslaved other races. America was not the only one.
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