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Hiding Skill - Abused?


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#1 angelsnare

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 02:12 PM

Hi. I'm pissed off right now so I can't think straight so I apologize early if ever I have wrong grammar.

 

Does a thief's hiding skill let them loot while in "hide" form? If yes, then I propose to please make them appear before looting something. This hiding skill is being abused and very very unfair for pillarnium farmers like us who are not thief class.

 

OK, so here's the story:

 

I am farming for pillarnium at thrown out temple. I still have average equips so it takes me quite a while to finish them. When I try looting, the PILLARNIUM IS NOT THERE. I thought it's a bug or something so I tried a second time. IT IS STILL NOT THERE, even though I have hunter buff and thief potion on. My guess was a thief was there, so I typed in normal chat "Someone is stealing my loots" and a player in hide mode replied "-_- u bitch".

 

So there, I realized that I am being followed by this pesky thief and looting my supposed-to-be pillarniums. And I logged out pissed off and very very annoyed. Can a solution be provided for this? I think it is really unfair. Please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming that thieves in hiding status can still loot.


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#2 Nereida

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 02:17 PM

After being bored to death farming with a warrior and spending all Saturday leveling a thief, this is all I have to say about the suggestion

 

Lj9l6DS.jpg

 

By the way, if you do that, it would also affect artisans and chefs. Because if there's something chefs need it's to have a harder time.

 

I understand that having someone purposedly stalking you is annoying, but that's what you can use channel switching and report tickets for.


Edited by Nereida, 30 September 2014 - 02:18 PM.

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#3 angelsnare

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 02:28 PM

I've known a lot of chefs who can farm without even hiding. I am an artisan myself and I can farm just fine without hiding also.

If proposal is too ridiculous, then are there any other solutions for this? Aside from channel changing, because there are a lot of pillarnium farmers and it's too hard getting a "spot". Harvesting is ok, but looting something from another's player's kill is just wrong on so many levels.
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#4 Arbalist

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 02:32 PM

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it looks like you're beating up monsters and looting the monsters? The monsters do not carry any Pilanium. As such, Hunter's Buff and Thief Potion should have no effect. Another player cannot take your loot unless they are in your party. Nevermind I misread.

Anyways, the quickest solution to your problem is really to just make your own thief. There's no level limit, you can start at level 1 (or 3 for faster movespeed in hide). It saves you the time from beating up monsters anyways.


Edited by Arbalist, 30 September 2014 - 02:33 PM.

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#5 angelsnare

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 02:36 PM

*sigh* ok I've been thinking and maybe I really need to get a new spot next time. Hiding is one of a thief's perks anyway. Sorry :-( Close close.

Edited by angelsnare, 30 September 2014 - 02:37 PM.

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#6 Arbalist

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 03:01 PM

Well, if you want sweet, sweet revenge instead, you can always make a Soulmaker/bring a Soulmaker friend and use "Detection" skill around Pilanium nodes to reveal the thieves and let Kefris devour them. :)


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#7 Nereida

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 03:13 PM

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but it looks like you're beating up monsters and looting the monsters? The monsters do not carry any Pilanium. As such, Hunter's Buff and Thief Potion should have no effect. Another player cannot take your loot unless they are in your party. Nevermind I misread.

Anyways, the quickest solution to your problem is really to just make your own thief. There's no level limit, you can start at level 1 (or 3 for faster movespeed in hide). It saves you the time from beating up monsters anyways.

 

Better to avoid all annoyances and become an assassin. With max hide, hiding mastery and shadow form. You'll be farming pilanium completely safe at the speed of a rickshaw!


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#8 KuroiKoneko

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 03:16 PM

Well, if you want sweet, sweet revenge instead, you can always make a Soulmaker/bring a Soulmaker friend and use "Detection" skill around Pilanium nodes to reveal the thieves and let Kefris devour them. :)


i did this twice and detected bots\macroers xd

Edited by KuroiKoneko, 30 September 2014 - 03:24 PM.

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#9 Lostac

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 04:16 PM

At the very least when they are mining/harvesting make them only visible to players while remaining in hiding state(similar to how party members are able to have vision on assassins)


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#10 Warrantless

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 05:44 PM

At the very least when they are mining/harvesting make them only visible to players while remaining in hiding state(similar to how party members are able to have vision on assassins)

 

It should be like this since the beginning, except during duel or PVP, Colo and Woe areas. Same as others i made my own thief farmer since precious materials where always nearby agre mobs killing while farming is really a pain in the ass.


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#11 angelsnare

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:15 PM

I have opened this up with other fellow pillarnium farmers on the map and they are annoyed as hell also. One even pointed out that he find it strangely funny that you get to level a character to ML20 and yet you create a lowbie just to farm mats on a high-level map.

 

One word would probably be: RESPECT.

 

To all thief classes out there, it is ok to hide and harvest whatever you want BUT if you see a player close to pillarnium nodes AND fighting mobs at least have the decency to ask them first if they are aiming for the nodes or just the mobs. Because seriously, it kinda pisses us off to kill the mobs and find out in the end that the nodes have been ninja-looted already. And we can't change channel fast enough because we are still in "battle" unlike those ninjas who can easily change.

 

And sorry for my bad explanation on my earlier posts. Most probable solution would probably be:

- Soulmaker

- 2-group party. One looting the nodes, another hitting the mobs

- Create a thief.. if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

 

Thanks again. And sorry for whining, lol. Didn't mean it, I'm just annoyed >_<


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#12 angelsnare

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:17 PM

i did this twice and detected bots\macroers xd

 

There are... bots here? :o I am so ignorant.  :p_omg:


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#13 TifaValentine

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:09 PM

There are... bots here? :o I am so ignorant.  :p_omg:

 

Yeah sadly there are some still around. And not all of them are hiding classes actually.

 

As for your complaint, despite saying it quite upset, its a legit complaint. But what has to be done is respect among players no matter the class. I play an assassin+artisan, so farming pillarniums wouldnt be a problem for me; before this I played also a Ranger+blacksmith, so then again, no real problems with gathering. However, I dont use my hide as a means to "steal" from other people farming, I use stealth as a way of my class to avoid unnecessary aggro. But I've always respected if someone was already farming on a certain spot. 

 

Because of this same issue with "stealth farmers", its why several patches ago, the spots for pillarnium ores were changed and more were added as well as a faster respawn time. Depending on which type you're looking for I can point you out good spots if you wish ^^ (some are safer in fact). Additionally, alchemist job can now refine lower grade pillarniums into higher grades, thus being able to farm lower grade (less competition/more safe spots) and simply refine into the one desired. These options are all about "pillarnium" farming especifically, but if you need help with other safe and good farming spots for different materials, I can probably help you as well! 

 

Overall, respect is still something important. Stealth classes shouldn't make wrong use of their skills and prevent someone else from farming if they were there first. There's always alternatives. And what that person said in chat, was really rude and unneeded; should be reported asap.


Edited by TifaValentine, 30 September 2014 - 08:11 PM.

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#14 angelsnare

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:51 PM

Thank you! I didn't know alchemists could create pillarniums! That is a very nice tip. I am lacking around 20 more for my osi set, hopefully I get to complete it soon. I'm interested on those good spots that you mention, I'll send you a PM! 

 

About that person, most farmers on the map advised me to report him, but I forgot the name because it has lots of x's and a n4MeLiK3THis. Too bad I didn't screenshot.


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#15 Shinyusuke

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 10:17 PM

A lot of players asked (also here) to disable hide in the moment you start looting for a few simple reasons:
-Avoid thief (not the class)
-be fair whit all the other classes that can't hide
-make the botters life less easy

I doubt the regular farmers will complain since kill mobs give exp and there would be more fairness between classes
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#16 Nereida

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:08 AM

At the very least when they are mining/harvesting make them only visible to players while remaining in hiding state(similar to how party members are able to have vision on assassins)

 

This is actually how it should be!

And also as said, respect.

 

 

A lot of players asked (also here) to disable hide in the moment you start looting for a few simple reasons:
-Avoid thief (not the class)
-be fair whit all the other classes that can't hide
-make the botters life less easy

I doubt the regular farmers will complain since kill mobs give exp and there would be more fairness between classes

 

I would complain. I have complained. Farming about 600 pillarnum powder with a knight was hell. Not only because of how many I farmed, but also because the lack of hide forced me to

1.take long detours all the time, which doubles farming time

2.randomly fight monsters I couldn't avoid

from that I only gained an annoyed mood, a negligible amount of MP that I would have earned within one minute of partying at condors and a headache because achieving such a systematic careful behaviour places an exra mental strain.

Compared to that a sin is heaven: fast, straight from point A to point B and don't have to bother disposing of resilient pests.

 

 


Because of this same issue with "stealth farmers", its why several patches ago, the spots for pillarnium ores were changed and more were added as well as a faster respawn time.

 

Wait, it used to be SLOWER?

The snailpace grinding ride never ends!


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#17 Arbalist

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:23 AM

 

Wait, it used to be SLOWER?

The snailpace grinding ride never ends!

There used to be only a few nodes (like 5 or 10?) with a 10-15 minute spawn time, and in the beginning Osiris wasn't dropping recipes. So at first, there was absolutely no rush to get HGP. Some people and bots took the initiative to farm large amounts of HGP early though. When Osiris started dropping recipes, there was a big rush to craft all that gear but the nodes were farmed to hell. The early Pilanium farmers jacked up the prices (400z each I think was the price) and held the community "hostage". There was a lot of crying and developers caved in and added more nodes and shortened respawn time so the value was dropped immensely thereafter.

Wow, knowing all this RO2 history makes me feel so old, sigh.


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#18 Nereida

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:35 AM

There used to be only a few nodes (like 5 or 10?) with a 10-15 minute spawn time, and in the beginning Osiris wasn't dropping recipes. So at first, there was absolutely no rush to get HGP. Some people and bots took the initiative to farm large amounts of HGP early though. When Osiris started dropping recipes, there was a big rush to craft all that gear but the nodes were farmed to hell. The early Pilanium farmers jacked up the prices (400z each I think was the price) and held the community "hostage". There was a lot of crying and developers caved in and added more nodes and shortened respawn time so the value was dropped immensely thereafter.

Wow, knowing all this RO2 history makes me feel so old, sigh.

 

I don't know how, but the sheer incompetence of the designers of this game never ceases to amaze me.


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#19 angelsnare

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:07 AM

This is actually how it should be!

And also as said, respect.

 

 

 

I would complain. I have complained. Farming about 600 pillarnum powder with a knight was hell. Not only because of how many I farmed, but also because the lack of hide forced me to

1.take long detours all the time, which doubles farming time

2.randomly fight monsters I couldn't avoid

from that I only gained an annoyed mood, a negligible amount of MP that I would have earned within one minute of partying at condors and a headache because achieving such a systematic careful behaviour places an exra mental strain.

Compared to that a sin is heaven: fast, straight from point A to point B and don't have to bother disposing of resilient pests.

 

 

 

Wait, it used to be SLOWER?

The snailpace grinding ride never ends!

 

And raged on the forums. =.= omg I feel so ashamed.

 

There used to be only a few nodes (like 5 or 10?) with a 10-15 minute spawn time, and in the beginning Osiris wasn't dropping recipes. So at first, there was absolutely no rush to get HGP. Some people and bots took the initiative to farm large amounts of HGP early though. When Osiris started dropping recipes, there was a big rush to craft all that gear but the nodes were farmed to hell. The early Pilanium farmers jacked up the prices (400z each I think was the price) and held the community "hostage". There was a lot of crying and developers caved in and added more nodes and shortened respawn time so the value was dropped immensely thereafter.

Wow, knowing all this RO2 history makes me feel so old, sigh.

 

10-15 minute spawn time??  :p_omg:


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#20 LeviRD

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:54 AM

OK, so here's the story:

 

I am farming for pillarnium at thrown out temple. I still have average equips so it takes me quite a while to finish them. When I try looting, the PILLARNIUM IS NOT THERE. I thought it's a bug or something so I tried a second time. IT IS STILL NOT THERE, even though I have hunter buff and thief potion on. My guess was a thief was there, so I typed in normal chat "Someone is stealing my loots" and a player in hide mode replied "-_- u bitch".

 

So there, I realized that I am being followed by this pesky thief and looting my supposed-to-be pillarniums. And I logged out pissed off and very very annoyed. Can a solution be provided for this? I think it is really unfair. Please correct me if I'm wrong in assuming that thieves in hiding status can still loot.

 

LOL Get REKT xDD

 

Actually, I had a similar problem. Was farming with my Warrior and everything is fine, you know a very sunny day in Dayr blah blah blah, Until I see the mats and when I walk up to it and loot it, I get it a message saying *cant loot item*. SO I decided to get my SM, use Detection and VOILA, 2 pesky Thiefs are farming on my ch (at least they are doing thier Job lol). I "Politely" ask them to GTFO, they replied with a "-_- off you bitch". In my anger I spammed Detection and let the mobs kill them. Couple of Detections later, they moved to a different channel and I am back once again to farm.

 

Oh Sweet, Sweet Revenge.

 

(•_•) 

( •_•)>⌐■-■ 

(⌐■_■)


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#21 Shinyusuke

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:02 PM

not everyone has a noel handy


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#22 Arbalist

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:28 PM

Haha a very one sided debate on this issue popped up on public chat today. I'll just add the same suggestion I had then here:
Don't let combat break gathering. I didn't become a fat bear to not be able to tank attacks while picking flowers >_>.


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#23 SETSUNAf6w

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:00 PM

You can farm anything with a low level thief so I recommend you make one yourself it's very useful. I have seen time limited hide skills with high cooldown in other games to fight bot abuse but I don't think we're going to see that anytime soon in RO2. GMs can see hides but it still makes bots hard to report.


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#24 Greven79

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 11:28 PM

i did this twice and detected bots\macroers xd

There are... bots here? :o I am so ignorant.  :p_omg:
 
Yeah sadly there are some still around. And not all of them are hiding classes actually.

 

What made you think that this is a fair game?

 

Yes, there are enough dye-/ drop-rate hackers, mats/dna botters and of course those who glitch bosses to get an advantage. There were also other things like duped items, tradeable colo gear, premade Jehoon fights, Embus abusal, WoE entrance camping, etc. The "respect" seems to be pretty low.

__________________

 

To solve the "invisible gathering" issue would be rather easy... make players visible. Hide still has other uses and it would be 'fair' for everyone.

 

A way to balance Hide in a more general way would be to remove the speed bonus. Then, deactivating hide would make perfect sense again, because otherwise it would be hard to chase players. In addition, AoE skills would be more likely to reveal hidden players, and that skill needs better counters. In regard of farming, a 'normal' character might turn out to be faster (or at least not much slower) killing monsters and then gather mats instead.

 

A bit more preferrrable would be to limit the duration of that skill and/or increasing the cooldown. That skill should then be active only for half the time. Hiding Exceed // Camouflage Mastery might then increase the duration again (vigor to reduce the cooldown).

 

Another way to limit the duration would be by adding a high SP drain (see RO1 Cloaking).

 


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#25 HikariKouka

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Posted 02 October 2014 - 02:08 AM

Off topic but x2 damage out of hiding is ridiculous

That make sin, rogue, ranger big advantage in pvp & woe

This game is not like RO1 where you can multi client to have a soul master follow you

 

Suggestions:

 

Remove x2 damage effect

Hiding cost mana per second

Sell detect skill scroll (Blood Point)

 


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