149 replies to this topic

[ClickyHpen]

This is something I also thought about before : why do we not have a perma-chat room up for recruiting people to specific events/map parties? such as there should be an npc holding a chat that says [NP> Ice Dungeon lv 89+]

 

Same  thing for the challenge dungeon and spotlights. Nobody wants to be that person that sits with a chat up, this would be a gentle nudge in the right direction

 

ok i have a little time before work. first off, quote this if you're down (you should all be down)

 

i guess i'm gonna divide this into pipe dreams and things that i think could actually happen.

 

PIPE DREAMS:

-make guilds actually benefit pvm. exp bonuses when leveling on the same map as a guild member. there'd have to be a balancing discussion such as: what maps should this work on (not thors, not TI, not spotlight to start), if only we could make new guild skills. as far as i can tell guilds are useless, mechanically, for pvm. make pvm guilds a thing again!

 

-never give us level 10 mercs again. one would think hey! someone new could buy some kp and bam! instant levels! however, a lot of new people i have encountered don't want to put money into the game off the bat. if they do, i usually encourage them to get something a little more permanently useful like a hat. if you can't just fencer to 70 (hi xellie sorry but i think fencers ruin low level play) then get out there! use those maps people used before fencering!

 

-rework party exp. sharing stays 10 levels, but everyone gets the same exp, not a fraction. get them exp taps in there!

 

POSSIBILITIES:

-going off xellie's idea of giving supply tickets or whatever, i wouldn't do this for things like titans. use this idea to get people to explore cool places like thanatos (as xellie mentioned, probs needs work to begin with), odd maps like harpies and kiel (unless people go to KH and i'm uninformed i guess). i don't necessarily agree with the idea of getting everything done at once, because then who would leave those maps? if you can get supplies AND exp from one TI/event map, what's the point of the others? maybe make the supply TIs go off to strange places that are decent but not astounding. low level maps included, for the newbies to have things to sell. hell, just work supplies into some lower level turnins that already exist, like cocos and caramels and creamies (the alliteration is coincidental, i assure you)

 

-map reworking blah blah xellie already started on it, should probs be its own thread

 

-keep doing spotlights! never spotlight things like thors. never. what about kunlun or ayothaya or ??? just unused places because there are so many

 

i started rambling at possibilities but oh well, it's a start. these aren't exactly refined ideas fyi ok toodles

[KriticalAssassin]

I barely play classic but would love if that 1 time dungeon warp npc could like teleport players with a 1 hour cooldown or something. Getting to ice titans is annoying with like 0 gear and not wanting to pay kp to get teleport scrolls. Then when I get there no one wants the guy with lowbie gears and they pick all the stronger people who are fully geared/ not newer to the server. If people wanna teleport to the dungeon more than once per hour then they can walk the other times or buy scrolls. *shrug*

[IcedCafeMocha]

odd maps like harpies and kiel (unless people go to KH and i'm uninformed i guess)

 

I go to Kiel maps >_> leave me alone i like it there! it's warm and cosy! xD

[Themes]

There's also the 2.0 guild dungeons if you want to do group/guild based box hunting and the maps sure could use a boost (along with the two less useful 1.0 dungeons).

[Xellie]

GDs should not be part of supply hunting. Participation into WoE needs to be all inclusive, not exclusive to all but current participants. Winners

[Nymmastal]

Clicky for president.

[ClickyHpen]

GDs should not be part of supply hunting. Participation into WoE needs to be all inclusive, not exclusive to all but current participants. Winners

 

stop making me quote you you jerk i have enough to post on my own

 

stop feeding siege guilds bombs so people have a reason to play the more badass merchant class: mastersmith. i know i know not viable whatever but if you think chems are cooler you need to do like a million pushups asap. your muscles will explode and you will understand why i'm right. to be fair, i'm just dreaming of stook 2.0 rising from the ashes of a defeated and bomb-less biochem population. but really, even from the outside siege looks really screwy so i guess i could post theories on that too but i imagine a million people would go BUT IT'D MAKE THINGS BORING or THATS DUMB etc etc so vOv

 

also kritical bring more fwings and luck. it sucks, but getting there is sorta a barrier to entry. if i can get a nearly naked 8x bard there, you can too.

 

Clicky for president.

 

i am not a crook

[Xellie]

No, mastersmiths just need better equips to make them something viable

[Ecclesio]

I'm seriously getting pissed off in titans, some rogue just mob dropped me half way through my kill so I had to wing, then some paladin chased me (with a huge mob) as I ran off to try and find a monster and that's when I COULD find some kills.

 

This crap belongs on the challenge style maps or we need alternatives, wow damn.

 

I should stream this nonsense

 

i'm not even bothering with ice titans at the moment. not worth it soloing or trying to do a walking party because of the damn door parties mobbing the entire map and getting walking parties killed. the worst part is when the door party gets wiped at the door and there's a billion titans at the turn in npc and you can't turn in lol.

 

the video that xellie posted is a perfect representation of the bull-_- that is going on in ID3.

 

as for suggestions for improving maps, i suggest taking xellie's advice on the specific maps.

[Xellie]

I like the part where they icewall you off the npc then mob you lol

 

I did stream it in the end :

http://www.twitch.tv...lie/b/577977169

 

There was some fun events like the door party being wiped, getting mobbed, etc.

Check timestamp 21:37 for my attempts to turn in  lol

Edited by Xellie, 17 October 2014 - 07:13 AM.

[GreatMajah]

One of the things we can definitely do on classic is to change what monsters spawn on what map. If there are builds and classes that have very little chance at leveling right now, it would be a good idea to look at re-purposing an existing map that is being underused. 

Suggested this when "Classic" first began.  Said at that time that you guys obviously didn't understand what "Classic" meant.  I suggested that if you really wanted "Classic RO" then it should've went back to the days before the Juno Update messed with the monster placements.  I mean, the WHOLE GAME didn't have to change, it just would've been nice to go back to the "old days" like "Classic" is supposed to mean.

 

It was like advertising for a "Classic Car Show" and then when you show up, all you see is 1990's models.

[Themes]

Suggested this when "Classic" first began.  Said at that time that you guys obviously didn't understand what "Classic" meant.  I suggested that if you really wanted "Classic RO" then it should've went back to the days before the Juno Update messed with the monster placements.  I mean, the WHOLE GAME didn't have to change, it just would've been nice to go back to the "old days" like "Classic" is supposed to mean.

 

It was like advertising for a "Classic Car Show" and then when you show up, all you see is 1990's models.

 

We had some pretty custom spawns when the server first went in, not entirely sure about which episode, but it was pretty early. After a couple of weeks of nostalgia everyone *hated* them because the old spawns were absolute garbage to level in. Every single person on the server was in CTHO or CTUG (Anolians). Then Heim started making some changes (some good, some less so) until he'd done most of the field maps and a bunch of dungeons, these were used for a year or so? Until we got 13.2 spawns. Some of the old changes were re-instated (Geffen Dungeon, GH, etc) and this idea is a continuation of that theme.

[Xellie]

Bumping, because people seem to miss stuff in the foundry for some reason:

 

http://forums.warppo...vement-project/

 

Check it out and feed in.

[MasterLuis]

Im the Guildleader of small woe guild, people of my guild like TI party play (Ice dungeon actually), and we make partys when we can, but the problem is i cant expend all my time at partys because i need to farm supplies to make woe,

 

Would be good if will be posible to combine of some way Ti party play with GSB farm, like "Per 2-3(or more) Turn its you recieve 1 GSB" that force party to make more Tis to get more GSB. and do both things together (Its a suggestion, so dont troll it or drama please >.>)

 

The another problem is there not enough random ppl to make random partys to play, thats why we make partys with "key Jobs" and them recluit random ppl to help in party and have fun, but we ALWAYS start the party..

 

About improvement i propose to increase mob in anubis map, (good exp and no need to have expensive equips to make a decent party, and will be fun to fight vs many Anubis at same time ).

 

 

 

 

[meoryou2]

I think the "jump event" style exp tables should be in perma, one of the things that destroyed low level partying was probably mercs.

 

At the same time the population is too low to expect people to party (WoE guilds will jump their newbies); so there's little point dragging it out.

 

Putting more enjoyment into the 86-99 ranges will probably be more productive.

 

I would almost be tempted to come back to classic if a few things were met:

 

1: getting level 8x was easy, maybe with some quests that get you basic decent gear, not over powered gear like eden gear. And

2: in the 8x-99 range there are quest that give varying amounts of EXP based on quest length[1], with the caveat that you MUST be in a party of X number of people to do / proceed.  Longer / more EXP quests = need more people.  Kind of like thanatos tower with the party requirements to move to higher levels.

 

 

[1] I'm not talking purely "kill 600 monsters VS kill 200 monsters", I'm talking like take a party of three and hunt down some of the $monsters in the fields NW of prontera all the way to the monks place for a short small party, all the way to get a metric buttload of EXP for touring ALL field maps and killing one of pretty much every mob that spawns on field maps for a almost full to full party ( or full party whirlwind tour of "MVP"s  that are instance spawned on maps near the nat. spawns - no card drops though).  Possibly could be spun to help supply WoE, since guild leaders could easily get parties together as well. 

[Xellie]

Im the Guildleader of small woe guild, people of my guild like TI party play (Ice dungeon actually), and we make partys when we can, but the problem is i cant expend all my time at partys because i need to farm supplies to make woe,

 

Would be good if will be posible to combine of some way Ti party play with GSB farm, like "Per 2-3(or more) Turn its you recieve 1 GSB" that force party to make more Tis to get more GSB. and do both things together (Its a suggestion, so dont troll it or drama please >.>)

 

This guy gets it <3

[ClickyHpen]

i like that even though there's 5 pages of how2fixsiege thread, supplying a guild is bleeding in here. yeah, i get it, siege is important to a lot of people, but dang it there is a solid pvm game in here and i'd rather it get some love without having to worry about if siege players get what they want! you have your own thread! shoo!

 

on my stream, i get people coming back to ro or moving from pservers to mains. a few are even new to RO completely! sometimes, they ask about siege, but a fair amount do not! i try to present a variety of pvm situations to show off the fact that RO pvm can be fun but it still needs a lot of work. TIs aren't really the best idea imo because then people flock to them aaaand... other maps are just left to gather dust. spawns probably do need a solid amount of work, that's for sure. the challenge dungeon was almost a good idea, minus all the seeds which i hear bothers some woe players or whatevs. tone them down, bump up the equipment/obb/opb drops! someone recently started playing RO as a dagger ninja and i can't for the life of me grab a 3s glad to help them out!

 

drops need a reworking, perhaps. if it weren't for guild leaders crapping out castle drops, how many people would really have slotted gear? no one really hunts that nonsense anymore, as far as i can tell. cards are jerks as well, maybe have some quests to give out random 20% damage cards for weapons? i know this will cause card values to plummet, but if it brings people to the server, they can possibly sell consumables for cash. no, it won't be enough for a billion slim whites or all the bombs in the world (i see you siege thread, thinking about infinite supplies. i only have very biased and angry words about that so yeah) but you could buy some baby merchant's 43 fabrics, help a dude out. supplies are already relatively dirt cheap, just give the new players some money already.

 

i don't know i'm gonna stop for now yeah

[Xellie]

It overlaps clickster, supplying can be a way to force woe players to take part in pvm giving your folks more people to party with.

 

I want to be able to take part in pvm, and I want it to be both rewarding and fun when I do.

Edited by Xellie, 28 October 2014 - 10:14 AM.

[NoxiousOrchid]

Xellie is right.  Most of the more established players play for WoE.  The way you have to incentivize them to participate in helping lower level players is to give them a reward they actually benefit from.  It also gives them an opportunity to participate more in other aspects of the game since WoE supplying can be very demanding on a guild.

 

As it stands, classic needs something to get people to participate in pvm.  If players see others on maps they are more likely to stay.

 

Ultimately though, the biggest server killer is the community.  Intentionally killing other players and KSing them discourages new players from staying.  Insulting and refusing to party people based on their low level gears discourages new players from staying.  Only logging for WoE and being afk most the time discourages new players from staying. If you go to a game and you end up doing almost everything alone, there is very little incentive to play an MMO.  Would be easier to just go play a single player game with a more indepth story and more bearable grind.

[ClickyHpen]

i get this, and i'm kinda down for things like slapping gsbs in some events and what have you, but imo pvm needs a much bigger revamp and every map having something to get for WoE people just seems kind of silly to me. it's clear that pvm is not important to most people, unless there are secret pvm guilds hiding that actually play pvm extensively. just getting people on the maps via TIs/siege supply incentives is just a bandaid fix imo, we gotta fix the maps and perhaps drops so the game is more accessible.

 

let's assume, for fun, that no one's gonna give a new player castle drops or some e-z slotted gear. i think we can safely assume that slotted gear is essential for playing, whether it be pvm/mvp/woe/whatever. let's say the new player is, i dunno, a swordsman, sure. maybe they want a reduction shield cause hey! they got lucky! a thara card dropped! what are our options here?

 

Goblin - 0.02% Buckler (aside from knife goblin, which is a whopping 0.06% drop)

Kobold - 0.04-0.06% (axe kobold is highest)

 

"nah, i can settle for a guard" our intrepid swordsman says. WHOOPS. NOSIREE, BUDDY, BECAUSE:

 

Pupa/Peco Egg/Ant Egg - 0.03%

 

this is what i mean. OK, let's move on and say our friend here is happy just getting a weapon for a goblin card he got instead of the buckler. he could put that in an npc weapon (and regret life later) OR

 

Blade[4] - Female Thief Bug 0.16%

Falchion[4] - Familiar 0.21% (ugh falchions, but hey, whatever)

Tsurugi[2] - Sidewinder 0.03% (i dunno, maybe he got a nice party, whatever)

 

that is what's available, because any other one handers are essentially dropped by executioner or something worse and hahahahaahah at that. i know this is just an imaginary swordie, but i think it makes a decent point: if you're either soloing or just starting with your own group of friends, good luck getting a foothold. yes, there is the option to save your money and buy your gear, but unless you feel like hunting strawberries for a while (and this is assuming you were lucky enough to GET cards) you're preeeetty boned. i mean, don't get me wrong, i can 99 a sin with nothing but an npc jamadhar, but it won't be pretty or quick.

 

Xellie is right.  Most of the more established players play for WoE. 

 

in essence, i don't think established players need the help as much as new players do. sorry you're not having fun, but go start a fresh account, no vip, no nada, no friends. see how much worse it can be. i did this in july? or so and got to sin, naked aside from selling some strawberries, and it was pretty gross! now, remove our expertise from the equation, and imagine how bad that is. they're gonna go play renewal, probably, and that is what i want to fix! i think we just have different opinions on what the game needs to improve, sadly. i want new blood, not just the return of old/pserver players, and siege improvements don't seem that important to me to get it.

 

jesus that was a lot of care words i think i need a drink
 

[NoxiousOrchid]

in essence, i don't think established players need the help as much as new players do. sorry you're not having fun, but go start a fresh account, no vip, no nada, no friends. see how much worse it can be.

jesus that was a lot of care words i think i need a drink
 

 

You shouldn't assume things about people.  I actually enjoy this game to an extent.  All I was saying is that if you want new blood you need to stop scaring them off and you need to actually show your presence in pvm.  I see many players coming to renewal who decide to try classic because they want a more challenging environment.  It is up to you guys to keep them there.  No one is going to stay if they are made to feel unwanted.

[Oda]

A big part of it is 'selling' new players on WHY Pre-Renewal is important and what special things Classic has compared to Chaos. 

 

The experience for players who have not played in a very long time or who are completely new to the game (rare though they may be at the moment) is important, and unexamined. The lack of guidance can be a plus for people with the desire to join guilds or explore to learn but can be crushingly confusing for people who have never played before. 

 

PVP improvements keep established players, PVE improvements can benefit everyone. 

[Xellie]

Established players need help helping new players, it's not hard to grasp.

[Themes]

Hopefully with the new training grounds we can look at making things easier for new players. It'd be cool to give them some overarching quests to get them to explore some of the maps that award them some simple gear and experience to give them the opportunity to explore.

 

Some of the 10 year old MMO style punishing/time consuming gameplay still remains with regards to drop rates, but sadly there's not much we can really do about it. If you increase the drop rate on some of the stuff you've been talking about the markets just get flooded and prices go crazy. Admittedly there's a difference between some level 1/2 weapons and slotted pre-trans armor, but I feel that instead of increasing drop rates you can give the new players something to do. I feel that it'd be pretty neat to start playing a Swordsman then get a quest to go haul ass across the world to collect some stuff for the Blacksmith to make you a Helm/Full plate/Shield and a weapon. You could even extend them after level 70 or 80 and get more quests to add sockets to them.

 

[Blindpen]

Xellie is right.  Most of the more established players play for WoE.  The way you have to incentivize them to participate in helping lower level players is to give them a reward they actually benefit from.  It also gives them an opportunity to participate more in other aspects of the game since WoE supplying can be very demanding on a guild.

 

As it stands, classic needs something to get people to participate in pvm.  If players see others on maps they are more likely to stay.

 

Ultimately though, the biggest server killer is the community.  Intentionally killing other players and KSing them discourages new players from staying.  Insulting and refusing to party people based on their low level gears discourages new players from staying.  Only logging for WoE and being afk most the time discourages new players from staying. If you go to a game and you end up doing almost everything alone, there is very little incentive to play an MMO.  Would be easier to just go play a single player game with a more indepth story and more bearable grind.

 

This is exactly why there's no need to make WoE supplies like bombs affordable in WPE/KP. Make it easy, make them lazy.