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#1 jerremy

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 02:44 PM

Another random fact by me, but did you know that when something does so little damage that it gets reduced to 0, it'll show up as 'miss' and not as '0'?


Additional fact: When no damage is dealt (most obviously when dodging an attack, but also when completely blocking or when your damage reduction is so high that the damage received gets reduced to none), reflect does not work.

Edited by VModCupcake, 16 October 2014 - 05:53 PM.

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#2 Leeny

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 05:59 PM

Awesome! Thank you for the knowledge


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#3 carlolz

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:33 PM

Is it possible to have a 100% damage reduction for pvm or pvp? Thanks for answering.
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#4 jerremy

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:22 AM

You can come close to 100% in pvm, but a full 100% isn't possible. I thought this worked at first but a few tests of me proved it to be wrong. In PvP you can't even come close to 100% damage reduction.

 

Your reduction multipliers work like this:

 

First is your defense/mdefense. Going to take my knight as an example here, she has 5500ish def on her PVM set when buffed (lv50 unrefined brave set), which translates to 68% reduction. So, of the monsters total damage, 32% remains.

After that comes PvP/PvM multipliers. My knight has 50% PvM defense thanks to a brave set and luna accessory set. Of the damage that is left, another 50% gets reduced, lowering the monsters damage to 16%.

Then come the miscellaneous multipliers: Damage reduction stat, enhance damage, crit damage (in case opponent crits). However, as monsters have negligible crit rate and do not have any enhance damage, we don't need to care about these. My knights damage reduction is 55%+133, so another 55% reduction, lowering a monsters damage to 7-8% of its original value. This value then gets reduced by an additional 133.

 

After putting these stats into a graph, we come to see that all attack values under 1650 get reduced to 0, making this particular set good for running dungeons, since dungeon monsters are plenty in amount but the majority of them have low AP values, making it so this will reduce most attacks to 0. I've run this set in both caves and halls multiple times, and I did not take any damage at all from the normal monsters. Only the captain types, kings, and the imperial berserker statues (second floor of halls) were capable of doing me any damage.

 

The reason why this is unlikely to happen in PvP is because players aren't so linear in what they're capable of, unlike monsters.

Firstly, there's the possibility of defense pierce, ignoring part of your defense/mdefense reduction. They're also often capable of just flat out lowering your defense stat with def downs.

Secondly, unlike a monster, a player has 10% PvP offense when using an epic/exalted, offsetting your 40% PvP defense to a mere 30%.

And last, players have enhance damage as a stat (at least 15% when buffed, can be higher thanks to gems/passives/class buffs) to go against your damage reduction, and they also have the ability to get a lot of crit, which bypasses the damage reduction mechanic.

 


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#5 iMatt

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:57 AM

Did you know that the more defense you have the smaller gets the damage reduction from increased defense/magic defense.


Edited by iMatt, 22 October 2014 - 01:58 AM.

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#6 jerremy

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:01 AM

Yes I do. It's been like that since forever.


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#7 Krizalis

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:15 AM

So.. Does this means that classes that has low def like bourg and arti will benefit the most with the dmg reduction gems?
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#8 carlolz

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:17 AM

Thanks jerremy.

How about in SoD? How come the whisp in the crystal did not take any damage on Knights? on the other hand the King in sod have the same damage on all character jobs even on knights? Is it some kind of bug or is the king just over powered?
Is it only me who notice it or maybe I'm wrong.
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#9 jerremy

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:24 AM

Theorethically, yes. In practice, this however isn't the case. You could say that the % reduction that these gems provide are at their strongest when you take a lot of damage, but things don't work like that unfortunately. When you get dealt 2000 damage as a bourg/arti, that 5% reduction of a body gem reducing it to 1900 and then another 110 reduction to 1790 may seem like it'd be effective, but it's a lot stronger when you already have built in tankiness. A knight that gets dealt 200 damage, reducing this to 190 and then an additional 110 to drop the damage to 80 will be a way higher impact.

 

I have yet to try out SoD since they rarely start, but it's probably the same thing here as I explained earlier. Those wisps are high in number and rely on their attacks being magic damage, but their base attack power is low. As such, getting a lot of reduction from different sources (also perhaps a good idea to get a bit of mdef if you're having trouble with these) will reduce their damage to almost nothing.

I'll have to test what you said about the sod king, since that does seem strange.


Edited by jerremy, 22 October 2014 - 02:26 AM.

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#10 carlolz

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 03:35 AM

Theorethically, yes. In practice, this however isn't the case. You could say that the % reduction that these gems provide are at their strongest when you take a lot of damage, but things don't work like that unfortunately. When you get dealt 2000 damage as a bourg/arti, that 5% reduction of a body gem reducing it to 1900 and then another 110 reduction to 1790 may seem like it'd be effective, but it's a lot stronger when you already have built in tankiness. A knight that gets dealt 200 damage, reducing this to 190 and then an additional 110 to drop the damage to 80 will be a way higher impact.

I have yet to try out SoD since they rarely start, but it's probably the same thing here as I explained earlier. Those wisps are high in number and rely on their attacks being magic damage, but their base attack power is low. As such, getting a lot of reduction from different sources (also perhaps a good idea to get a bit of mdef if you're having trouble with these) will reduce their damage to almost nothing.
I'll have to test what you said about the sod king, since that does seem strange.


Ok thanks a lot jerremy. Its just a bit harder to kill fallen judge after the inc def patch.
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#11 iMatt

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 03:54 AM

So.. Does this means that classes that has low def like bourg and arti will benefit the most with the dmg reduction gems?

 

its reverse - high def classes benefit more from damage reduction through pvp resistance and gems since their def is already that high that defense will reduce the damage less than reduction gems.

The deminishing return point is at around 4.300 def - from that point you better focus on reduction rather than defense =)


Edited by iMatt, 22 October 2014 - 03:55 AM.

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#12 Krizalis

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 08:37 AM

good to know Matt.. so if I have say around 4500 def, i should got for reduction gem instead of more defense correct?

 

thanks :)


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#13 jerremy

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 08:38 AM

Depends, since you also have to take into account def downs/piercing. It doesn't hurt to have a rosasite body gem though.


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#14 iMatt

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 08:46 AM

it all depends on classes and stuff but the two classes that want to use damage reduction (knights and clerics) better use the new gems since their defense is already very high


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#15 jerremy

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:51 PM

Going to bump this topic for a bit, as what I said in my earlier post about the damage reduction (my second post) has been proven wrong after some testing.

I'm not going to explain how it currently works yet, as there's somewhat of a problem with it that makes knights nearly invulnerable in PvM (to the point of taking no damage from almost all monsters in the game, including most bosses), that we're still working to fix.

 


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#16 KHAIDOH

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:52 PM

Thanks jerremy.

How about in SoD? How come the whisp in the crystal did not take any damage on Knights? on the other hand the King in sod have the same damage on all character jobs even on knights? Is it some kind of bug or is the king just over powered?
Is it only me who notice it or maybe I'm wrong.

 

Try to use Brave set + Luna set and you can have the 50% Damage reduction. Then play alternately

the Damage reduction normal skill and Unique skill. Stay away from Swords, Lure it before Slow it.


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#17 Genesis

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:05 AM

Another random fact by me, but did you know that when something does so little damage that it gets reduced to 0, it'll show up as 'miss' and not as '0'?

Additional fact: When no damage is dealt (most obviously when dodging an attack, but also when completely blocking or when your damage reduction is so high that the damage received gets reduced to none), reflect does not work.

Both of these have been have been corrected for next patch. Reducing damage to zero from a target that successfully hits you will now display IMMUNE instead of MISS, and Shield Reflect will correctly deal reflected damage to the target.

Edited by Genesis, 24 October 2014 - 11:06 AM.

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#18 jerremy

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:06 AM

Oh woops, wasn't sure wether the second one was a bug, thought it was intentional not to work. Good to know though that it'll be fixed.


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#19 Genesis

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:18 AM

Shield Reflect is supposed to reflect a portion of the target's Attack Power or Skill Power back at them, provided they landed a hit against the Knight (even if damage was reduced to zero).
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