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[Classic] Saw this on my guild site today


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#1 Deliberation

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 10:31 AM

can't these problems be solved already?

 

Disenchanted with classic-loki
« on: October 21, 2014, 09:04:01 PM »
       
I don't even know where to start. I'm leaving the server.
 
Ragnarok takes a lot of work. Real life time and energy. It can be rewarding, at least, I think that's why I played iRO over other servers. That those real time and energy investments can seem so daunting but the more effort you put into something, the more you value the results right? Playing RO over the long term should make the players who do that feel more attached to the game.
 
I always did like to play a game where there was a goal. The bigger the goal, the better. The players race against eachother, fight eachother in pve, mvp, woe to become bigger, stronger. To achieve the biggest end goal.
 
So many aspects to tie together!
 
Not so on iRO. Really. Everyone will bypass everything. There have been issues with RMT (sure it's always happened between players and now there's that site), which wouldn't seem so bad but now I find myself second guessing everything. Instead of "omfg thats complete bs they're so stupidly lucky" when someone gets an overpowered mvp card, I talk to my friends and contacts, we exchange our information, players log every mvp kill on their websites. Sometimes it's easy to pinpoint that actually, that card couldn't have dropped. It was killed by a known player/group over that timespan/doesn't spawn in ET... so why does that card exist?
 
Every MVP card, high end card, mini boss card, high end armor, weapon is now greeted with the same cynicism. How are we to know as players what was earned? What other players put in the same effort as we did?
 
Yet the staff are reluctant to be more transparent about these issues. I don't want to play against people who just get items for paying some chinese website. Playing games to escape real life issues (including financial pressure sometimes) shouldn't turn into a reminder that even in a virtual world, you might have to work until your health suffers to be equal with other players. All that attachment gained through actually working for virtual items? I can't think of a faster way to make another user feel sickened at actually caring about the game and considering dropping it instantly.
 
For the community it really does feel like nobody actually wants to play the game. Those who did left, mostly driven away by the remaining players who bypass/whine their way through everything. There's no value or achievements left in RO.
 
MVP cards : RMTed or exploited through endless tower
WoE supplies : Botted
Character levelling : Botted / cheesed through insane turn ins to 99.
WoE castles : Are pretty much free to take.
WoE econ : Is never broken down.
God item components : Are in huge abundance. Never mind the duping at the start of the server, just take any random WoE SE castle for a free high econ and a high chance to get the parts to drop.
Miniboss cards : Are either RMTed, duped or mass produced from exploited MVP farming. Nobody can even question this, since well you know lol "hey it came from an ACA"
The economy : Nothing is valuable.
God Items : Are mostly in the possession of one guild that spammed the quests? Legit? Who knows. But not even God Items are sacred, RMTed and even that quest abused to make multiples when it should not.
 
That's just part of the problem, (that the staff are so quiet and seemingly inactive about it - I have reported some people that play close by me to just see if these items which I know aren't real will be dealt with, and they are not!).
 
When players raise concerns about the game balance, or the server balance the staff seem to not care. They will state issues related to one aspect of the game to deny some quality of life fixes, whilst insanely overpowering that one aspect in another manner.
 
Speaking of quality of life. The server has been left to rot in a way. There are issues, voiced and voiced over and over by the community, unnoticed. The staff do not seem to care. The pve issues vegetate, the exploits grow and grow, the blatant woe cheating spirals out of control, the economy tanks, the item discrepancies for what is required to compete and what newer players have access grows wider and wider and the player base cry out for attention to be paid.
 
But it never happens.
 
There are other things going on, regarding guildmates and the community. That is not for here, but all of the issues mentioned above run deep through the entire game including those whom I play alongside.
 
On top of all that the attempts to promote the game seem so sloppy and indifferent at best. As I stated once earlier, the players care much more than the staff do.
 
And that is why I do not care for Ragnarok Online anymore.

 

 


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#2 Facekiller

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:10 AM

its not just classic... feels that way on renewal too...


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#3 Beata

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:21 AM

The issue of RMT/Dup is quite rampant not only on Classic but on Renewal too. Though it would be easier to detect on Classic. As much as I am looking for answers and fixes regarding this I'd sense these kind of topics are bound to be locked and hidden into the abyss.


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#4 DarkGazer

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:25 AM

Can't blame him sadly. Only sensible thing to do when a company doesn't do a satisfactory job is to just stop supporting it. Less headaches for everybody, really.


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#5 Deliberation

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:28 AM

classic only has five active guilds, if he quits there will only be four

 

it won't be worth playing anymore if more guilds go away


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#6 Necrohealiac

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:36 AM

meh, besides Xellie, i don't recall seeing other people making topics asking for these issues to be addressed; maybe the OP guild leader should have been more vocal on the forums so that the GMs can realize this is an issue that affects everyone instead of one party's crying wolf.


Edited by Necrohealiac, 22 October 2014 - 11:36 AM.

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#7 ZeroTigress

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:37 AM

Can't fix the game, can't fix the management. So what can be fixed?
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#8 fiat600abarth

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:41 AM

but can you really blame the publisher for the community being -_-?


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#9 iamvrypwrful

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 11:41 AM

I wouldn't expect anything from the game or GM's anymore. Play it if you like it, stop playing if you don't like it.


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#10 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 12:41 PM

meh, besides Xellie, i don't recall seeing other people making topics asking for these issues to be addressed; maybe the OP guild leader should have been more vocal on the forums so that the GMs can realize this is an issue that affects everyone instead of one party's crying wolf.


Hindsight 20/20.
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#11 Necrohealiac

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 12:52 PM

my hindsight is worse than my actual sight, and i wear glasses.


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#12 Divine

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:06 PM

Its never too late for the GMs to do something. It would be great if the GMs could be like :

 

Yes, There is duping but we've been stopping all reported cases and have banned 5 users so far.

Yes, there are many RMT'rs out there and we've been keeping track of sites / people making using these illegal methods. Bans / Wipes / Warnings have been handed out to several users.

 

Its disheartening when all you get is "we are investigating the issue" and you wait for months but still see those same people who you know cheat / RMT still around.

 

I know one person who went from just normal gears (who doesnt farm any MVPs) to obtaining Deviling Card, Ghostring Card, Maya Purple card, Orc Hero card, Golden Thief Bug Card, AND Fallen Bishop card all within the span of a few weeks. I dont understand how BLATANT RMT goes unnoticed by the GMs. Btw these cards are on Classic Loki server. What is the point of me spending months and months of time farming when someone can just openly buy everything illegaly in an instant. Cheating isnt the easiest thing to spot, but it doesnt take a genius to see someone RMT go from nothing to having every mini boss / MVP card at their disposal.

 


Edited by Divine, 22 October 2014 - 01:06 PM.

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#13 Exuro

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:25 PM

I know there is a big possibility that this thread will be closed/deleted, but at least a response from the management would be very gratifying.

I've played in RO servers under worse publishers. I have to say that WarpPortal in its current state is actually doing pretty good as compared to what I've experienced.

However, doing good as compared to is different from simply doing good -- it would be nice to have all this cheating exterminated from the server.

Edited by Exuro, 22 October 2014 - 01:26 PM.

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#14 Themes

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:51 PM

Part of the problem Divine is that the GMs will just quote you and say "please let us know about players like this". It really shouldnt be our job to handle and if its down to us, what happens to all the people who are not obvious about it and we dont report. People are getting frustrated that people who seem obvious are still around even with the GMs looking into the situation. By appearing to do nothing people get the idea that this is acceptable behaviour and decide that they can get away with it. There's also the other side, people just love pointing fingers with no proof and running around convincing people of other peoples guilt.

 

I dont see why the GMs cant do some queries every week or two and track MVP/mini cards, obviously if there's a bunch of new cards and they all wind up in the same place there's something fishy going on. It'll obviously be something a little more difficult for Renewal but Classic is a lot smaller.

 

Please dont make the community feel like you're doing nothing, I know you've got kRO looking into a solution, but if people are obviously getting punished for getting involved it might dissuade them from continuing. In saying that please be sure of guilt before punishing anyone.


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#15 Gn1ydnu

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:54 PM

 

MVP cards : RMTed or exploited through endless tower

WoE supplies : Botted
Character levelling : Botted / cheesed through insane turn ins to 99.
WoE castles : Are pretty much free to take.
WoE econ : Is never broken down.
God item components : Are in huge abundance. Never mind the duping at the start of the server, just take any random WoE SE castle for a free high econ and a high chance to get the parts to drop.
Miniboss cards : Are either RMTed, duped or mass produced from exploited MVP farming. Nobody can even question this, since well you know lol "hey it came from an ACA"
The economy : Nothing is valuable.
God Items : Are mostly in the possession of one guild that spammed the quests? Legit? Who knows. But not even God Items are sacred, RMTed and even that quest abused to make multiples when it should not.

 

This is what stands out most for me. Most I agree with, correcting one w/ GSB and putting some insight onto others.

 

MVP cards: Quote's answer is quite innocent. I"ll leave this blank to protect their innocents, but I had to comment on that. 

WoE Supplies: Because of the introduction of GSBs (GM's did this) the amount of botting has dropped for WoE mats. The biggest things that are botted are goats for WoE (blue herbs/empty bottles). It should be easier to catch botters since the best map for them is a single map... 

WoE Castles: They should have limited the amount of castles open to reflect the population a long time ago when vrypwerful was pushing for it. It isn't too late to limit the amount of castles.

Character leveling: I don't think most are botted. It would be very ineffective since an "established" player could 99 so easily (fast). I'm sure there are some, but nothing quite ridiculous. 

WoE Econs: Agreed with quote. I would like to see something similar to a ladder system in D2. Every 4 months or so completely reset all castles AND alchemist list. 

 

The server isn't gone, yet. They need some fixes.

 

-Make potting as easy as possible. (Good news, we are heading in this direction!!!)

-Crack down on both autopot and no delay. (Get very strict and hand out 1 week bans as a warning, second offense perm ban)

-High end items (mvps, gods ect) should be consistently monitored. This is to prevent RMT and injected -_- (Bans should be given out accordingly) 

-Rotate through WoE castles and limit the amount. (This was proposed a very long time ago)

 

Finnally.....  Deliberation mentioned if this guild quits then there will only be 4 active guilds left. The solution to this is controversial.  

 

Reduce guild cap. Can be done by modifying guild skill.

 

Example from 10/12. These are rounded numbers and pure guesses on ACTIVE PLAYERS no characters logged...

VH-40
HB-30
Valk alliance-40
Small guilds + soloists- 40

That's like 150 active players participating in WoE. 1 FULL alliance could hold 50+ more people then the entire servers WoE population combined... 

Plus 1 week having 20 vs 40 then the next week 40 vs 20. Lowering the cap to reflect the population of the server would increase the competitive nature of WoE BOTH durring WoE and on non WoE days. You only have so many "slots" to fill, if somebody isn't helping the guild replace them with somebody else. This will make getting into a "top tier competitive guild" a challenge and something to strive for and also work for helping that guild.

 

 We should look at the reason for a lack of (WoE) guilds on the server. We will go down to what 4 guilds if this one quits? That is absolutely horrible. Why would I make a guild and put forth #effort just to "win" and have the opponents come back the following week with double the numbers that my guild has? There is no reason to allow guilds to get 56 people inside of one or an alliance to have 224 people inside of that alliance. There just aren't enough players or guilds for this to work. That's why you get consistent 1 sided WoEs. Every WoE 1 guild has drastically more numbers then the others. This has been going on for a long time and it makes for inconsistent "fun". It is painful to play. 

 

I know multiple guild leaders (not including myself) who would bring their guild back if the guild cap was lowered to better reflect the population of the server. If/once the population goes back up then we can get rid of it!


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#16 belld1711

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 01:58 PM

I know there is a big possibility that this thread will be closed/deleted, but at least a response from the management would be very gratifying.

 

 

That, imo, is where the biggest problem lies with ANY major issue on either server. The only time the GMs inform anyone of anything or ask feedback is with Tiki Tuesday, where the only things discussed is where bounty boards should go, whether item descriptions are going to be fixed, or (like in this week's Classic maint thread) where Oda asked where everyone does most of their potting so they can add NPCs to those locations to make that easier on them. But I bet anything, if someone asks in the Tiki Tuesday threads what the GMs are doing about the ET exploits, or anything else mentioned before that is game breaking, you'd get the generic "We're looking into it" response.

 

Personally, I think that if someone breaks the To S, the Privacy Policy should be scrapped for them, and they should be publicly shamed in tickets and the forums. If I'm caught botting, RMTing, expoiting bugs or dupping items, I DEMAND that the GMs add my IGN and forum display name to a publicly viewable list here on the forums. Let everyone SEE that something is being done, not just "we're investigating the issue," damn it! That's one of the reasons why I quit submitting tickets on botters and such.

 

EDIT-How did typing To S (with no spaces) make the forums display "The Ragnarok Online 2" in it's place? O_o


Edited by belld1711, 22 October 2014 - 02:05 PM.

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#17 Exuro

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:12 PM

EDIT-How did typing To S (with no spaces) make the forums display "The Ragnarok Online 2" in it's place? O_o


Because To S is a different game... well just Google it. :P
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#18 iamvrypwrful

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 02:34 PM

the server needed ally and guild cap reduction over 1 year ago

 

edit: and castle reduction. Why the -_- does renewal have less castles than classic?


Edited by iamvrypwrful, 22 October 2014 - 02:36 PM.

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#19 Kadelia

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 03:21 PM

If they opened a new renewal server and allowed full account/storage transfers to it that left god items, components, miniboss cards, and mvp cards behind--- and that new server had no iro custom gramps, et re-entry, no mystic card albums, etc--- I'd probably pay to switch to it even if I had to leave my stuff behind. And then I'd prbably woe again.

Edited by Jaye, 22 October 2014 - 03:22 PM.

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#20 belld1711

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Posted 22 October 2014 - 07:06 PM

If they opened a new renewal server and allowed full account/storage transfers to it that left god items, components, miniboss cards, and mvp cards behind--- and that new server had no iro custom gramps, et re-entry, no mystic card albums, etc--- I'd probably pay to switch to it even if I had to leave my stuff behind. And then I'd prbably woe again.

 

I'd do the same, but be willing to leave my characters behind as well. A fresh, new server, no characters, no zeny, nothing. I like the thought of that. I know people wouldn't want to leave their characters behind, and wouldn't switch because of that, but that's how I personally feel...


Edited by belld1711, 22 October 2014 - 07:07 PM.

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#21 Exuro

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 12:14 AM

I'd do the same, but be willing to leave my characters behind as well. A fresh, new server, no characters, no zeny, nothing. I like the thought of that. I know people wouldn't want to leave their characters behind, and wouldn't switch because of that, but that's how I personally feel...

 

I won't, simply because I just started playing here in iRO last year and have already reached 120+ on my first character. Pretty sure there are many others like me. :P I'm more for Jaye's proposition. :)


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#22 Riakuta

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:58 AM

If they opened a new renewal server and allowed full account/storage transfers to it that left god items, components, miniboss cards, and mvp cards behind--- and that new server had no iro custom gramps, et re-entry, no mystic card albums, etc--- I'd probably pay to switch to it even if I had to leave my stuff behind. And then I'd prbably woe again.

 

I hardly believe mini-boss cards are the problem. Keep MCAs just remove MVP Cards and God Items. *AND FIX CASTLE DROP RATES*

 

At the current drop rate of God Item Pieces even if you econned a WoE 1 Castle for an entire year you would only have enough God Item pieces to make half a God Item!
 


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#23 AlmrOfAtlas

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:43 AM

No offense but Renewal has the player power to function despite its shortcomings, so please don't derail this topic with cross server discussion.

 

Classic is haemorrhaging players, both casual and hardcore, due to the illegal -_- wandering around in public and not getting slammed, and WoE just being toxic. For this player, who appears to have wrote a -_- essay as to why Classic in a failure state, there are tons more who quit without a word.

 

This needs to get addressed. It's not just one player who feels this way, and apparently this was reposted from a guild forum? It's not limited to here, in this little circle of 15 or so heavily opinionated Classic players. Just imagine we lost YET ANOTHER guild on Classic. WoE would turn into a ol' fashioned platonic barn-raising. PvM is dead so that's not presently worth sticking around for. A few diehards would just be playing amidst supply bots.


Edited by AlmrOfAtlas, 23 October 2014 - 04:46 AM.

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#24 Kadelia

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 05:08 AM

Problem is you can't make sweeping changes, nerfs, or item removals without players feel like they are being oppressed.

 

The only "humane" solution is offering people the option to move away to their desired community.

 

Such an idea works just as well for classic as it does for renewal.

 

Pristine server with all the GM foibles omitted, transfer of undesirable duped and RMT'd items forbidden, etc., => some place people would want to transfer to. Examples to keep things at bay include

 - Never put custom crap on the server that babies whined for to make leveling or obtaining endgame items easier. (i.e. no gramps or mvp summoner).

 - No events or kafra shop promotions where GMs spawn endgame items like god items or miniboss cards.

 - (For classic) Do not introduce slotted mids. When you do they become baseline required and then balancing the haves and have nots is too difficult.

 - (for renewal) implement kRO's NPCs! They have a slotted mid maker npc. This makes it baseline available for players. Stop being greedy with kafra shop.

etc.


Edited by Jaye, 23 October 2014 - 05:09 AM.

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#25 VModCinnamon

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 05:14 AM

Feel free to express your concern within the topic, but do not turn this thread into a Classic vs Renewal.


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