169 replies to this topic

[cybernetic]

smaller guilds + no allys = ability to fight without merging = more guilds to fight = more reason to fight

 

instead of 2 guilds fighting each other it could be 4, or more, given the amount of people to make a guild work would be lowered as well.

 

noone wants to invest time supplying a 40+ man guild other than two people (xellie and hb leader)

 

if guild sizes were limited to 20 ish people no allies, its a lot easier to deal with if one person has to organise it.

Edited by cybernetic, 23 October 2014 - 05:30 PM.

[Gn1ydnu]

smaller guilds = ability to fight without merging = more guilds to fight = more reason to fight

 

instead of 2 guilds fighting each other it could be 4, or more, given the amount of people to make a guild work would be lowered as well.

 

noone wants to invest time supplying a 40+ man guild other than two people (xellie and hb leader)

 

if guild sizes were limited to 20 ish people no allies, its a lot easier to deal with if one person has to organise it.

 

HOLY -_- LOGIC BOMB! Seriously though! Why did guilds die off and merge to begin with? Because groups of people brought 50+ active people to WoE. How could a guild of 20 people ever possibly compete against that? Allying doesn't work effectively. Guilds merged to compete and then one group quits and everything disappears. No group returns, unless they "re-merge" into another guild. 

 

Seriously. The guild cap of 56 and alliance cap of 224 is uncalled for on this low population server. This will continue to kill the WoE scene on a competitive level. If guild extension skill was set at 0 and guilds could have a max of 36 characters, I would personally bring back and lead a 20 person guild since we could compete against any opposition. 

[cybernetic]

im sure the brs would want to do their own thing too.

 

 

they actually brought up ressing wc for another go, but it was decided that we wouldnt be able to get enough members to fight 5x guild, and even if we did noone wanted to get the supplies together.

 

so we merged into vh.

 

it would be a different story if it was 2x.

Edited by cybernetic, 23 October 2014 - 05:38 PM.

[Gn1ydnu]

I would gladly run a WoE guild if I knew 100% that the enemy's numbers had a reasonable limit. Limiting castles should have been done a long time ago to reflect the server population.

 

It's not too late to do these things, but putting it off any longer will result in a server with no competition. I wont say it's a "dead" server at all, just the majority of the players who have been around supporting RO would quit because of no competent opponents to fight. 

[TheSputnik]

-Keep alliances

-Keep the same number of forts.

-Reduce  max guild size to 30, until woe population is increased.

-Make all woe supplies available from battlegrounds.

[Xellie]

lol if it was about pointless fights bg would be full of battles and pvp would be active

 

"competition" requires something to be "competed" over. All you guys care about is pvping in some random ass fort with no regards for the rewards! That does NOT motivate the majority of players or even guildleaders.

 

You must realize this. I'm sorry if it's sounding rude but ultimately the amount of work that goes into supplying even a 20 man guild has to have some kind of return. iRO lacks that. There have been opportunities for smaller guilds to be viable. Even VH was down to 15 and one stupid guild took it upon themselves to merge everyone and their mom and outnumber them completely. But hey, they could have just done the 20 man thing like everyone else.

 

So take a good long hard look at what guildleaders are and do. We're greedy ass mofos who want something in return for providing your entertainment.

Edited by Xellie, 23 October 2014 - 05:57 PM.

[Themes]

Do any of you have any ideas that the GMs can actually implement? You're all saying the same thing and the GMs have said multiple times that they wont (and cant) change some of the things you feel you require to make this server fun.

 

There's nothing limiting you from cutting down your guild to whatever size for siege. If you run into a guild with 40 players just go somewhere else, there's several small guilds around right now (smaller than the sizes everyones talking about here mind you) who have been scrapping for the last few weeks. After a point the big guild/s will get the message that hey if they want to play against other people they might have to make some changes, you could probably sit down and talk to them about it even.

[Xellie]

idk Themes, Tolrin is never up to discuss these things and I'm brickwalling hatebreed because eff those guys

[cybernetic]

if everyone wanted to go down into 20 man guilds and fight each other it would have happened. only way for small guild fights is to force it.

 

else it will be as it always has, one guild stacks more, other stacks more, until the entire server is merged into two guilds. then one of the guilds quits. and the server is dead for a while until people are bothered to start again. and then the merging starts. repeat infinity.

 

at the end of the day when ragnarok is truly dead and the servers have been turned off, what do you think people will remember?

 

those 20 gods items you made from leading a guild or fun woes immortalised by video?

Edited by cybernetic, 23 October 2014 - 06:06 PM.

[TheSputnik]

lol if it was about pointless fights bg would be full of battles and pvp would be active

 

"competition" requires something to be "competed" over. All you guys care about is pvping in some random ass fort with no regards for the rewards! That does NOT motivate the majority of players or even guildleaders.

 

You must realize this. I'm sorry if it's sounding rude but ultimately the amount of work that goes into supplying even a 20 man guild has to have some kind of return. iRO lacks that. There have been opportunities for smaller guilds to be viable. Even VH was down to 15 and one stupid guild took it upon themselves to merge everyone and their mom and outnumber them completely. But hey, they could have just done the 20 man thing like everyone else.

 

So take a good long hard look at what guildleaders are and do. We're greedy ass mofos who want something in return for providing your entertainment.

fantasy land?

[Gn1ydnu]

if everyone wanted to go down into 20 man guilds and fight each other it would have happened.

 

at the end of the day when ragnarok is truly dead and the servers have been turned off, what do you think people will remember?

 

those 20 gods items you made from leading a guild or fun woes immortalised by video?

 

Fun WoE's and good fights. Watching teamwork and team play to get victory. Items are irreverent, to most people, once it is shut down.

 

Cyber 4 CEO! 

[cybernetic]

missed some of my quote breh

[Xellie]

if everyone wanted to go down into 20 man guilds and fight each other it would have happened. only way for small guild fights is to force it.

 

else it will be as it always has, one guild stacks more, other stacks more, until the entire server is merged into two guilds. then one of the guilds quits. and the server is dead for a while until people are bothered to start again. and then the merging starts. repeat infinity.

 

at the end of the day when ragnarok is truly dead and the servers have been turned off, what do you think people will remember?

 

those 20 gods items you made from leading a guild or fun woes immortalised by video?

 

What do you think I remember out of it? How all those hours of work each week didn't balance out the 4 hours of fun? No, it actually bloody well doesn't. So whilst everyone else is running around making videos HEUHEUEHEUEHUUE LOOK ME GOOD BOMBER I PLAY ONLY AS WEEKEND WARRIOR, spare a thought for those who make your sh!tty videos happen and what they are getting out of it.

 

 

fantasy land?

 

I know what my attendance has been. There was a reason VH never engaged HB. Feel free to check my broadcast Archives for before VF4 was burned and check for yourself.

Edited by Xellie, 23 October 2014 - 06:12 PM.

[cybernetic]

rip

[Xellie]

sorry cybb but the point is that even when the server was "healthier" it has lacked people wanting to take on those responsibilities. Community discussion purely centers around what people want and never the realism of making it happen.

[cybernetic]

cant imagine many people wanting to organise 56 man woes

[Xellie]

So motivate them

 

I don't even like organizing 20-30 man woes tbh. Not for the returns on this server and the amount of work required. It's just not worth it. I'd rather dick off in pvp.

(it's not even supplies, most people don't even want to do that on this server and it's so easy it's ridiculous)

Edited by Xellie, 23 October 2014 - 06:20 PM.

[cybernetic]

convincing people to log on, gathering the supplies, potting the supplies

 

not worth the effort for the lack of competition.

 

id rather just not play

[Xellie]

But what is there to compete over?

 

This isn't a pserver, where playing for nothing is an option either. Look at the way guilds are stacked... if you don't compete for those items you can't compete very well against them later on. So it goes to reason that those items should be the reason for competition.

 

Unless some serious quality of life fixes go in to make this stuff easier (and no, please not just sitting in boring fricken' bg farming the same crap over and over - it's worse than pvm and not being able to beat people botted alts into the chat  makes me angry) - then no amount of imaginary (as in we know they can't do this) fixes would help.

 

If people cared they would already be putting in the hour or less effort per week to supply themselves and guilds would be bigger and more diverse. But they aren't because playing iRO is like bathing in acid then rolling in salt.

[cybernetic]

gravity had a choice

 

1) attract pserver players/new players

2) dont attract pserver players/new players

 

they went for option 2. so while pservers have thousands of players, we have a minute selection of a hundred odd players active at any given time.

 

no one is playing the long game anymore other than you and people from yumis pvm guild. its about instant gratification.

 

where can the have nots get the items to compete with the haves? woe. how do they do that? a guild. how do they get a guild? they need numbers. how do they get numbers to compete with 4x+ sized guilds? they dont. so they dont bother playing.

 

the select few end up merging because they cant convince people to play.

 

either changes happen and large guilds cease to exist (by guild size restriction) so smaller guilds can all fight with even numbers, or nothing happens and things are BAU.

 

yes your argument of 'small guilds dont want to fight' is a valid point, but so is the idea that currently there are 4 guilds merged into two. that would go back to four (or five) if the restrictions were in place. 

 

blah blah this is iro you need compensation for wanting to woe or whatever. great. youre right pservers just fight, but you know what? pservers have a lot of people for a reason.. maybe you're onto something..

 

either steps are made to attract pserver players/old players, or just lock this thread and we can continue on as we have always done.

Edited by cybernetic, 23 October 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[Xellie]

Then you see what I'm saying, I need post no more words

 

We really need that choice to be made, this is either handed to everyone pserver style, or it's iRO and should be treated as such.

 

We can't keep flipping around treating it as one and acting like it's the other. It's terrible. It really is.

Whatever choice is made, there will be losses. I can see certain guilds just being like "well it's not iRO, it's a pserver" and laughing their way off the server on the one hand. There's a huge culture clash between the "iRO long term win game" players and the "gvg me bro" players as they call us xD

I try to balance both, but it's so goddamn hard.

Edited by Xellie, 23 October 2014 - 06:39 PM.

[cybernetic]

woe is the life blood of ragnarok.

 

it is the reason why it has stayed "popular" (i use that term as loosely as possible) officially and unofficially over the years. yes pvm is big as well, and some people prefer it to woe, but for a large majority its all woe.

 

it would be wise to improve woe. perhaps it would contribute to more people pvming/mvping/pvping as well. but i cant say for sure.

 

either way!

Edited by cybernetic, 23 October 2014 - 06:46 PM.

[Xellie]

Just so long as it doesn't turn into less than 10 people carrying the whole server through pvm so they can woe....

[kschamp]

Smaller guilds would benefit most of the server.  Seriously.

If WC left Valhalla, how many would you have? Not 56, so what's the point of having 56.  If they split, thats an entirely different guild to play against.  If alliances cut off, Valk, AnO, Aurora, would be 3 seperate guilds to add to the mix.  Immortal dreams could stand a chance, new guild that was for pinoys ( I can't remember the guild name, it's really that new, ) they could actually participate, Mirai would stand a chance, more people would return since it'd be worth supplying a small group of 2x people. 

This brings competition, xellie.  This doesn't mean just "pvp amg no way of competition."  Yeah, they're be fights, lots of them.  Big fights, sandwiches, random 2v2's some how, and so forth.  You don't always have to fight that same exact guild and have a 50/50 chance of you having x2 more members or less.

 

Ontop of that, if a group wants a castle, look at what they're defending against.  Instead of just 1 guild that may steamroll you or do nothing due to having half the players, you'll have 10+ guilds vs you if need be.  Sounds like plenty of competition.

[Xellie]

You seem to fail to understand the definition of competition.

 

We'd go back to the 15-20 we were before the merge? I come from a server where 6-12 guild ALLIANCES were common. we couldn't all be allied, but we had ways to share out goals and not kill each other.

 

This conversation is great, but I'm not pissed about supplying running a 50 person guild (which is what we are right now I suppose), but even when the server has been entirely < 20 man guilds, nobody has been motivated to step it up and it sucked then and it'll suck in the future, because there are other issues that need addressing.

 

 

On top of that, guilds like valk and co (do NOT take this as -_- talk please valk, I really don't mean this in a mean way) NEED their alliances to fight against stacked guilds like VH. We have fought them, their whole alliance with teen attendance and won! Call it item advantages, call it having had to adapt to a new play style, call it farming for days for the supplies to do it, it happens. Alliances are actually important. They are what allow the little guys to rise up and overthrow the evil overlords of the past.

 

This whole convo is great but we know they can't change guildsize/alliance size, sadly.