23 replies to this topic

[TragicSlip]

What do you guys make of it? Even though they are low level weapons with low attack, could one make use of its 6 slots and the added 30% damage to Large mobs?

 

I've seen people on jRO using it, and as far as I know, the effect is the same as it is here.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Edit:I forgot to mention, it's regarding a DD crit build.

Edited by TragicSlip, 01 November 2014 - 05:49 AM.

[spikexp]

2 ATK cards on the right and 2 racial/2 size modifier on left.

Maybe 2 autocast cards on the right since it has a bit of max aspd proc.

Anywhere else, it's a low level weapon with a low level attack. You could get both at +10 and I still can't see where they could outshine Grimtooth/Queen Leg/etc + Scalpel.

[TragicSlip]

I wonder if those 30% combined with the crit dmg% you can acquire through those six slots, combined with some sort of  large ATK bonus ( that you should get from other sources) would, somehow, make this  good.

 

I really don't get why I always see people using those on jRO videos.

 

I apreciate your input. Thanks.

[spikexp]

Crit DD is another thing... No Sharp enchants on weapon means you need to get some intensive amount of crit elsewhere.

[TragicSlip]

Lol, I forgot to mention about that. I meant it for a DD Crit build /heh

[fuyukikun]

archer skel x6 = 54 crit. morrigane set = 16 crit. +7 crit shadow armor = 10 crit. 60 luk = 20 crit. tadaa total 100 crit.
or u can put 6 aunoes for 2,2x crit damage or equal to 3,1x normal damage. then putting crit gears or sharp enchants to pump up your crit chance.

[Kadelia]

Using those weapons means no queen leg[2] though or ice pick!

[spikexp]

archer skel x6 = 54 crit. morrigane set = 16 crit.

fail.

i've done this kind of crit dd and my da hits much higher.

[TragicSlip]

It's the Aunoe part that interests me.

 

 

Edit: Also, I'm very annoyed by the Agi Up cast by some MvPs, so... Crits! <3

Edited by TragicSlip, 01 November 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[ShinKokuryuu]

I wonder if those 30% combined with the crit dmg% you can acquire through those six slots, combined with some sort of large ATK bonus ( that you should get from other sources) would, somehow, make this good.

I really don't get why I always see people using those on jRO videos.

I apreciate your input. Thanks.

The reason is that the damage calculation formula in jRO is different. When they get things like +20% damage to xx race, it's to final damage unlike ours, which only affects weapon and equip attack.

The size mod is apparently pretty heavy on their side too. Drake pretty much doubles your damage there due to size mod.

in jRO, stats have a larger impact on damage than in iRO and kRO, both of which you can deal ok~ish damage with 1 str and good gears. In jRO if you have 1 str and good gears, your damage will still be nothing.

To be straight, what you see in jRO most of the time cannot apply in iRO gear-wise as the damage calculation is much too different. Even ice pick's effect is different, and GXes have a better aspd mod with dual daggers in there, among other things.

[TragicSlip]

The reason is that the damage calculation formula in jRO is different. When they get things like +20% damage to xx race, it's to final damage unlike ours, which only affects weapon and equip attack.

The size mod is apparently pretty heavy on their side too. Drake pretty much doubles your damage there due to size mod.

in jRO, stats have a larger impact on damage than in iRO and kRO, both of which you can deal ok~ish damage with 1 str and good gears. In jRO if you have 1 str and good gears, your damage will still be nothing.

To be straight, what you see in jRO most of the time cannot apply in iRO gear-wise as the damage calculation is much too different. Even ice pick's effect is different, and GXes have a better aspd mod with dual daggers in there, among other things.

That was a lot of useful info. Thanks a bunch!

[ShinKokuryuu]

As a gauge, in jRO there is a GX who is able to do over 1 mil damage to vesper, killing him in 2 hits.

Even if we had the exact same gears and did the same thing in iRO, we'd probably reach 50k~100k or so(I'm not very good with the estimates). Their damage feels exponential with better gears and high stats, while ours seems to be linear.

[inspectortrix]

fail.

i've done this kind of crit dd and my da hits much higher.

 

DA overides crit, inorder to get DD crit correctly, one should not get the DA skill, in which case, a GX will be only using the DD skills because no advance katar mastery, no SD, no MA

[Darksorrow1234]

so... hows the dmg for DD crit against mvps? anyone got screenshots to share?

[spikexp]

DA overides crit, inorder to get DD crit correctly, one should not get the DA skill, in which case, a GX will be only using the DD skills because no advance katar mastery, no SD, no MA

I DIDN'T have DA. What I'm trying to say is my DA damage is higher than DD crit using Morrigane setup.

[Kadelia]

I think the point is that

 

If you have enough HIT:

DA > Crit

 

If you don't have enough HIT:

Crit > (missing with)DA

 

So if its for MVP, a DD crit without DA is preferable, but the rest of the time, DA is better.

[chr0nicles]

I think the point is that

 

If you have enough HIT:

DA > Crit

 

If you don't have enough HIT:

Crit > (missing with)DA

 

So if its for MVP, a DD crit without DA is preferable, but the rest of the time, DA is better.

 

except crit damage can be easily increased with +%crit cards/gear.

 

DA 10 = 1.5x DPS (assuming 100% hit)

100% CRIT = 1.4x DPS

 

DA 10 + 100%CRIT = 0.5*2 + 0.5*1.4 = 1.7x DPS (assuming DA 100% hit)

DA 10 + 100%CRIT + 2 Aunoe Card = 0.5*2 + 0.5*1.4*1.4 = 1.98x DPS

DA 10 + 100%CRIT + 3 Aunoe Card = 0.5*2 + 0.5*1.4*1.6 = 2.12x DPS

 

100%CRIT with 2 Aunoe Card = 1.4*1.4 = 1.96x DPS

100%CRIT with 3 Aunoe Card = 1.4*1.6 = 2.24x DPS

 

2 Aunoe card is pretty much standard for a crit build, and the difference is a measly 0.02 DPS

with many ways to increase crit and +% crit damage, i think crit > DA in all scenarios.

[Omnipheles]

DA only seems better because it hits higher when it activates, but it's still only a chance to activate. There is no doubt that DA used to be better, but the more time passes, the better DD crit becomes in comparison.

[Kadelia]

except crit damage can be easily increased with +%crit cards/gear.

 

DA 10 = 1.5x DPS (assuming 100% hit)

100% CRIT = 1.4x DPS

 

DA 10 + 100%CRIT = 0.5*2 + 0.5*1.4 = 1.7x DPS (assuming DA 100% hit)

DA 10 + 100%CRIT + 2 Aunoe Card = 0.5*2 + 0.5*1.4*1.4 = 1.98x DPS

DA 10 + 100%CRIT + 3 Aunoe Card = 0.5*2 + 0.5*1.4*1.6 = 2.12x DPS

 

100%CRIT with 2 Aunoe Card = 1.4*1.4 = 1.96x DPS

100%CRIT with 3 Aunoe Card = 1.4*1.6 = 2.24x DPS

 

2 Aunoe card is pretty much standard for a crit build, and the difference is a measly 0.02 DPS

with many ways to increase crit and +% crit damage, i think crit > DA in all scenarios.

 

Ehmmm, this is not a good way to look at the math IMO, because you're missing half the argument. Those 3 Aunoe cards come at the cost of +% damage cards. You will likely do more damage with a triple attack using abyssmal knight cards when using high attack weapons like the queen's leg and ice pick.
 

Also I am not sure but I think abyss knight cards multiply against the ATK from Eddga doll as well?

Edited by Jaye, 03 November 2014 - 05:34 PM.

[Omnipheles]

Frankly I prefer Little Feather Hat with angra mantis card for DD crit. Monsters don't last long enough for Eddga to proc often, even MVPs. Only ones I'd consider using it on are the high end MVPs that last more than 2-5 seconds.

[chr0nicles]

Ehmmm, this is not a good way to look at the math IMO, because you're missing half the argument. Those 3 Aunoe cards come at the cost of +% damage cards. You will likely do more damage with a triple attack using abyssmal knight cards when using high attack weapons like the queen's leg and ice pick.
 

Also I am not sure but I think abyss knight cards multiply against the ATK from Eddga doll as well?

 

+% crit damage works like AS cards, it increased the whole critical damage. this makes Aunoe damage way better than +20%damage card, even vs 25% of AK card. thats why i didnt include them, and its a little complicated to calculate as it depends of ones wATK+eATK xD

 

edit:

assuming sATK 30% and wATK+eATK 70%

DA + 3AK Cards = (0.3 + 0.7*1.75)*1.5 = 2.29 DPS

 

hmm turns out it wins against 3 Aunoe by 0.05DPS

if your wATK+eATK:sATK ratio higher the difference woul be a little higher.

 

 

there's just 1 thing i can't put a pin on, this is just merely an observation.

if you using +0 Weapon your Crit damage is always the same number, it will vary only after you use overupgrade weapon.

 

my hypothesis is crit damage is always Max damage from weapon variance (not overupgrade variance). if this is true though those CRIT calculationa above could be higher.

Edited by chr0nicles, 03 November 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[Darksorrow1234]

       

[Yugacky]

Over upgrade weapon gets extra random wATK for each hit.

Level 3 weapon gets average of 4 wATK for each over upgrade and

level 4 weapon gets average of 7 wATK for each over upgrade.

 

Crit damage can get max damage from weapon variance but the over upgrade bonus stays random.

[Kadelia]

Level 4 weapons also have +/- 20 or 15% damage of their base atk as variance I forget if lv1 weps have 5% variance or if variance doesn't start until lvl 2 or not.