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Improving the Turn In experience


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#1 OniichanN

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

After reading and mulling over Fier's post, I want to suggest a system for choosing TI monsters/maps that's a bit different than the current one.
 
I hope we get some kinda reply from the CM team if we gather enough interest. I'll try to pester them to answer and comment on the tiki stream.
 
Warning that it'll be a long post (Word says over 1350 words), worth the read and your time, I hope. Happy reading and sorry for the crappy editing, didn't wanna scare you right away with a wall of text.
 
1. Choosing monsters

Spoiler

 
2. TI map rotations
Spoiler


3. The mastermind(s)

Spoiler

 

 

No TL;DR, sorry, I want you to read it an gimme your thoughts/ideas. <3

 

PS. That click bait title huehue


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#2 Oda

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:26 AM

For monsters, we are trying to avoid having too many passive monsters or monsters that are found exclusively in instances or guild dungeons (with some exceptions). I am not opposed to the idea of the community providing reasonable TI map and monster suggestions. 


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#3 OniichanN

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:35 AM

I see. Well, let's wait and see if some of the ideas gather some interest or not and we'll go from there. Thanks for the input Oda.


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#4 Facekiller

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:38 AM

id rather get away from turn ins on sequestered maps altogether... the bounty boards are a much better system IMO than the gramps TIs... less time and energy is needed since they dont need to updated every week, multiple maps to choose from, multiple monsters to choose from, leveling ranges are more consistent, bots will get reported more because more REAL people will be on normal maps to report them, less player stagnation because people will continue moving from board to board as opposed to hanging out on a single map for weeks on end, market prices will not suffer as much from flooding of items, parties will be much easier to find cuz people are more likely to be in your particular range....


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#5 OniichanN

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:52 AM

All very valid points but since we do have the turn ins, why not improve them? Improve here goes along the lines of giving the community a chance for more feedback/influence. And due to how it would be set up, there'd be turn ins which won't be to everyone's tastes (kinda like now but instead of QQing about the CM/GMs, the community will be to blame. Why'd you suggest all the good monsters and left out all the crappy ones? Suffer now :P ).

 

Not trying to start a BB vs TI, just trying to see if there's interest (and, more importantly, possibility) in tweaking the system to give us a feeling of more involvement. Everyone can choose what way they wanna level.


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#6 sb120495

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 09:54 AM

Just have one guy come up with 2(maybe 3?) sets of monsters for each TI(low/mid/high) and let people choose which set via a poll.

Also change the chooser every week.


Edited by sb120495, 18 November 2014 - 09:55 AM.

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#7 OniichanN

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 10:29 AM

Just have one guy come up with 2(maybe 3?) sets of monsters for each TI(low/mid/high) and let people choose which set via a poll.

Also change the chooser every week.

 

Interesting proposal, how'd you choose the chooser tho? Randomly from the poll thread or?

 

EDIT:

typos.
 


Edited by OniichanN, 18 November 2014 - 10:29 AM.

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#8 Facekiller

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 11:05 AM

All very valid points but since we do have the turn ins, why not improve them? Improve here goes along the lines of giving the community a chance for more feedback/influence. And due to how it would be set up, there'd be turn ins which won't be to everyone's tastes (kinda like now but instead of QQing about the CM/GMs, the community will be to blame. Why'd you suggest all the good monsters and left out all the crappy ones? Suffer now :P ).

 

Not trying to start a BB vs TI, just trying to see if there's interest (and, more importantly, possibility) in tweaking the system to give us a feeling of more involvement. Everyone can choose what way they wanna level.

my thought is that if we can expand the bounty boards to every city then we wont even need TI anymore since they essentially work the same if not better... and it will free up alot of threads like the maint thread which gets quickly hijacked each week by TI arguments... i think if we want to improve things in game clearing alot of the drama around leveling would be a nice start... also unlike your suggestion to let players actually choose the monsters for the week since the boards will have most of the monsters for a level range and area there wont be any scapegoating or name calling as to who chose what (cendrawasih anyone?)... the bounty boards are essentially TIs with all the fixes already in place...


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#9 spikexp

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:18 PM

TI is good for those who have only a small time playing during weekdays. I grind bounties during weekends myself. TI is just too rewarding (100% exp from 400*2 monsters compared to 75% exp from 150*X monsters). The exp/h and ofc, the eden badge reward from TI is much more rewarding too.
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#10 Kadelia

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:19 PM

Didn't really read any previous posts. Before I continue:

I asume the opine of slowly phasing out turn ins instead of making them even more efficient isn't welcome here?

Because this is where I stand on the matter and haven't seen anything compelling to change my opinion otherwise on the matter.

Edited by Jaye, 18 November 2014 - 04:21 PM.

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#11 iDaehyun

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:21 PM

Didn't really read any previous posts. Before I continue:

I asume the opine of slowly phasing out turn ins instead of making them even more efficient isn't welcome here?

It's like going to Las Vegas and tell people to stop gambling.


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#12 Kadelia

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:22 PM

Probably :(
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#13 ZeroTigress

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Posted 18 November 2014 - 04:39 PM

Gramps TIs was a 1-month event that was just never taken out. And now people are too used to relying on him to level up since he's become a dirty old bandaid that would make people scream and cry if it was removed now.
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#14 OniichanN

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:43 AM

Didn't really read any previous posts. Before I continue:

I asume the opine of slowly phasing out turn ins instead of making them even more efficient isn't welcome here?

Because this is where I stand on the matter and haven't seen anything compelling to change my opinion otherwise on the matter.

 

You should read it tho. :P

 

And idk about phasing TIs out, it's up to the WP staff to decide that. This is a proposal/suggestion to get the community more involved and to relieve some workload(? maybe some other word would be better here) from the staff who has to deal with TIs every week.

 

All I'm getting so far is why are TIs good/bad which isn't the point of this. D:


Edited by OniichanN, 19 November 2014 - 12:44 AM.

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#15 spikexp

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 01:07 AM

The first improvement I'd like to see is how they respond to TI suggestion thread. I'm not going to suggest anything until that aspect is taken more seriously instead of recycling same old pairs.
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#16 ZeroTigress

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 10:44 AM

The CMs don't play RO and it shows. To expect them to be able to pick the right spawns every week is kinda of a high expectation and the reason why Gramps TIs is the way it is.
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#17 kasshin

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:23 PM

GMs don't tend to like large radical changes, but here are just some finetuning aspects of TI:

1) Some monsters REALLY do not belong in TI and should be banned. Bio 3, Ancient Tree, and Phylla give average EXP while having more than double the HP of other monsters. If their EXP values actually made sense then that would be fine for the TI format. Instead, I would propose to make Bio 3 used for some other purpose like a 2-3 week event challenge killing all 6, can only be completed once per char maximum, etc. Anyone with basic math knowledge can see how the HP / EXP ratio for certain monsters are just way off.

2) Some monsters that fit Oda's criteria were never put in. Some for unknown reasons like Skeggiolds. Some were "too new" like some Eclage and Bio 4, but even those are probably well over a year old now. GMs should "revisit" their TI list every 3 months or 6 months and add new ones into the rotation. Having a TI suggestion thread is pretty pointless when anybody can simply do a "monster search" on any DB and have it print out all the monsters that are within a certain level range, are MVP or not, are boss or not, etc.

3) Try other maps. We've maybe only had 10% of all the available maps used as a TI map. Just pay attention to how many cells are available, how many corners / dead-ends there are, how narrow/wide paths are, and all the things anybody who does TIs at least once a week know about already.
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#18 Necrohealiac

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:25 PM

ceneres were just in this past week, with ancient books and lichterns part of the TI rotation in the past.


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#19 kasshin

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:29 PM

I know, but there are three other types of lichterns and other monsters as well too. And bio 4!
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#20 Necrohealiac

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:40 PM

i thought the GMs avoided putting in monsters that were found exclusively in instances.  wouldn't that preclude bio4 mobs?


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#21 OniichanN

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:42 PM

The bio4 map isn't an instance tho. Only the part where you speak to the researcher to fight the MVP.


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#22 Necrohealiac

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Posted 19 November 2014 - 12:44 PM

i see.  in that case, full steam ahead.


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#23 LeeRoth

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 11:21 AM

I think too TI should be removed or just give 50% exp. And then add bounty boards to a lot of citys/fields/dungeons. It's kinda sad to go to any dungeon or field and watch how now they are just desert places
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#24 Havenn

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Posted 20 November 2014 - 11:24 AM

KK and Scholar TI please. 


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#25 Necrohealiac

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 05:38 AM

that's hardly improving the TI experience to the majority of the population.


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