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Spear Champ: Blowout


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#1 Feuer

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 12:17 PM

OK so let's get started here. 

 

Why are spear champs obsolete. With this question I'm going to disprove a mind set that Spear champs have a purpose over other types of champions.

 

1: "They're the best AoE PvM Champs".

This is wrong. As a matter of fact it is HORRIBLY wrong. For starters, They only have 4 Passives in their weapon tree that even apply to AoE's. Attack Power and AoE Radius, yet AoE Radius doesn't increase the damage. Attack Speed doesn't contribute to AoE's, and Dodge rate is the most useless stat for tanking while pulling that many mobs. 

Now, the statement "attack speed helps for strikes between AoE's". That would be true IF the spears damage wasn't so small and spread to so many AoE's that by the time they finish casting their 6 aoes + 1 debuff, the CD's are done. Meaning if you want to waste a AoE cast for a melee strike [which reduces your DPS and provides no stacks or benefit in any way] then that's you're call. 

 

As far as AoE's go, the Sword champion is the dominant force and here's why.

Swords have 5 Aoes in their tree to support damage [as compared to spears 2]. They also have 4 AoE's at their disposal. Not only do they have more passives that increase their AoE damage, but the base %'s of those AoE's are significantly more effective then the spears and have a higher static # to boot. This primes a Sword Champion to dispatch a group of localized mobs in 1 rotation of 4 skills, vs 1-1.2 rotations on a spear. 

 

So not only can a sword champion out AoE damage a spear. So can an Axe Champion with a small amount of effort or cash.

An Axe Champ has 7 passives that directly influence AoE damage potential. However they're limited to 2 AoE's on large cool downs. That being said here comes the cash/effort portion. If you invest into the 3 PvM Shouts, you now have 5 AoE's, 2 of which are total group busters. The other 3 add debuffs [reinforcing those primary 2..]

Here's the real jaw dropper. Axe's massive AP, Crit damage bonus and Enhance damage bolsters a load of offensives capability, combines into those 3 pvm aoes as magic damage. And as we all know magic damage is HUGE. 

 

2: "So why can't a spear use those pvm shouts for the magic damage?"

They can, but then they're going to lose casts of their other 6 aoes... So it's a relatively useless trade off.

 

PvP AoE:

Well the core problem here is almost the same

1: Swords + Axes having more passives that affect the AoE's then spears.

This problem trickles into PvP via the fact that the less AP you possess, the more effective def + reduce damage become. And because spears lack the ability to really get a good AP without completely ruining every other stat they need in the process, it's a pointless struggle. 

 

2: "Spears are good at CHA AoE debuffs"

They're absolutely 100% no different then a Sword or Axe Aoe on CHA for debuffs. The reason they're chosen for such a build is because when built offensively, they're laughable and present no threat. The other reason is their AoE radius increase. Aside from the AoE radius, they have 0 statistical advantage to a sword or axe debuff. As a matter of fact, I find Swords + Axe debuffers more threatening because they both possess hard CC, either a stun[s] or mute. 

 

So there you go, as AoE built, they're less effective then other builds. Even when both weapon styles are built the same way, with gear etc the Sword will win an AoE damage fight. 

 

I'm not sure I need to list why they're weak as they are in 1v1. So if that info is requested then I'll edit this and post it. 

If there's any statements or ideas about spears you'd like me to look at, test or discuss, post them and I'll get to it. 


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#2 Leeny

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Posted 31 January 2015 - 10:17 PM

I thought spear champs can be pretty strong if they are built right with their debuffs and such. Idk I heard from some leo players they are pretty balanced but I haven't touched a spear champ in awhile. Maybe someone could make one and test it with me in draconis


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#3 turnermanxi

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 06:00 PM

Bump+the amount of money put into a spear champ for it to be even on a level BARELY compared to an axe or sword champ is more than 10 folds than them.  It's bs.  


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#4 HoneyBunz

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 10:40 PM

I have no interest in pvp so I can't say anything about that but my friend and I leveled our first group of characters with a spear champ and we enjoyed it enough that we made another one to level our second group of characters, currently close to lvl 230 now.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I don't see why there needs to be a topic specifically to tear down spear champs. Some of us like them. Maybe instead you could present what you see as their weaknesses and offer solutions for those that want the help. To me that would be a much better option than this, no offence.


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#5 turnermanxi

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 07:55 AM

This is a "pick me up" post for spear champs.  By stating all of its flaws it's implied that the solutions would be to fix those flaws.  I myself made a thread about spear champs being obsolete (which i have done numerous times in the past) and nothing is being done about it.  No class representative is considering looking at them unless it's in general discussion.  Real justice would be to actually acknowledge the 100 well thought out post about spear champs and actually consider some changes.  That's not being done so this is going to get quite old if you ask me.  Btw pvm only last until 230 and let me remind you characters are not supposed to be quantified as to one will be just for this and i'll just make 500 others.  Characters are supposed to your personified virtual self.  Making 20 of yourselves takes away from that aspect of the game.  Having one character is all anyone should be concerned about.  The option to make other ones is not to support the other but to play a completely different role in the game.  The game wasn't originally designed for you to make one character and make another on a separate account.  Read my thread and you will understand exactly what I am trying to say.


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#6 Feuer

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 10:05 AM

Well tbh, I made this post to point out their flaws, with expectations of suggestions to fix the flaws. It was under the pretense that the champion and knights were supposed to be 'refined' after the bourgs + artisans. However I was recently told that they will not be getting fixed or 'refined'. So i wouldn't really bother with it anymore. 


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#7 Leeny

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 10:22 PM

If someone gives me a spear champ at 230 with just 1 220 honor set, i can gear/skill/stat the rest of it to destroy most characters..believe that!


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#8 T4eCler1c

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Posted 23 May 2015 - 06:24 AM

I just built a spear champ for dg's and find it nice to play. Yes it takes about 1.2 rotations to kill a mob group but I have to aspd ms and ap with the correct jewelry sets on at the right time to be useful in a boss fight. Cause I found a sword to be pretty useless in boss fights.
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#9 TheRealCaNehDa

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Posted 27 May 2015 - 03:37 PM

I can show so many screenshots where my spear champ is #2 scorer in AA with cleric being #1; -- Spear champs insane aspeed ability makes them amazing at taking down a boss... 
Axe champs better? In many ways, yes... but I've always liked spear, my current issue with spear, is it's hard to get a good build including the self buffs, with the mspeed... 


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#10 horseraider

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Posted 23 June 2015 - 01:47 AM

Most Spear champs just go on build their charm sets and builds...

 

Spear champs should at least have a little nerf down on the debuffs


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#11 KatsuraKujo

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Posted 24 June 2015 - 06:46 AM

If you're talking about debuffs, the debuffs are same across all the sub-classes of champs. The only difference between a spear champ with them is the aoe. If you made a debuffer Sword champ, with the same amount of charm as the spear ones. The effect of the debuff would be the same. The only difference is the aoe range of the debuff.

 

I'd rather you state what kind of nerf should be done, how and to what kind of estimated value to better strengthen your point.


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