15 replies to this topic

[Greven79]

It's quite simple:

 

Mounts should be usable during combat and be allowed on the WoE map (or at least introduce special WoE mounts).

 

In the end, a mount is nothing but a movement elixir. So doesn't Gravity/WarpPortal want to sell mount boxes?

To support this, no more movement elixir dailies. Instead, these quests should reward you with special food for your mounts.

(You could remove that food from the merchant list. This would kind of force players to visit the WoE map instead)

 

You could also add more levels for the guild skill "Stablemaster" if necessary.

 

To keep the lag at a minimum. simply hide the weapons while mounted.

 

This comes with another advantage:

Combat speed would be lower than with a movement elixir, because you still wouldn't be able to fight mounted.

This will lower the 'out of range' and the 'target must be in fromt' issues, especially for otherwise stationary shooters.

 

Be aware that this would kind of nerf the stealth characters, as they can't use the mount while hidden (and probably the BMs).

This could  hardly be considered a bad thing though...

Edited by Greven79, 22 December 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[3212141213222053760]

All games are always test benched on actual computers. Usually systems that are considered "overkill" and could run upwards $7,000.00 USD and more. Some companies will usually go lower end as to prevent mass loss claims, etc. Usually not though, as showroom games tend to need on the spot development and the extra boost would never be passed up on. Yet, this allows to get very good estimates as well to what kind of systems could run the desired testing game. Sadly people never take into consider their laptops are dated and don't know why their lagging or getting FPS drops. Here's some better solutions:

 

1.) Turn off Anti-Aliasing.

2.) Turn all setting off and to their lowest values.

3.) Check to see if your internet connection is fine.

4.) Download, install this program:

https://www.piriform...speccy/download

Speccy is a free, trusted, safe, program that allows you to see all the components of your computer in real time. It's extremely useful for diagnosing simple to hard problems, and if you post a screen shot of this program on it's home page I can tell you if your system is actually capable of running the game smoothly or not. I highly suggest lowering your standards with hope.

 

No Thief, Rogue, Assassin or Beastmaster can use a mount while hidden. They can only access it, then be pulled out of their hidden state. If you find that a 1 - 2 second delay to accessing a mount for hidden players is such a major issue, I think you should either reroll your class, or ALT+F4 and find how to uninstall. It would be nice though to see new mounts that aren't paid content..

[KuroiKoneko]

pls nerf then 200% speed boost...

[deathcauser]

All games are always test benched on actual computers. Usually systems that are considered "overkill" and could run upwards $7,000.00 USD and more. Some companies will usually go lower end as to prevent mass loss claims, etc. Usually not though, as showroom games tend to need on the spot development and the extra boost would never be passed up on. Yet, this allows to get very good estimates as well to what kind of systems could run the desired testing game. Sadly people never take into consider their laptops are dated and don't know why their lagging or getting FPS drops. Here's some better solutions:

 

1.) Turn off Anti-Aliasing.

2.) Turn all setting off and to their lowest values.

3.) Check to see if your internet connection is fine.

4.) Download, install this program:

https://www.piriform...speccy/download

Speccy is a free, trusted, safe, program that allows you to see all the components of your computer in real time. It's extremely useful for diagnosing simple to hard problems, and if you post a screen shot of this program on it's home page I can tell you if your system is actually capable of running the game smoothly or not. I highly suggest lowering your standards with hope.

 

No Thief, Rogue, Assassin or Beastmaster can use a mount while hidden. They can only access it, then be pulled out of their hidden state. If you find that a 1 - 2 second delay to accessing a mount for hidden players is such a major issue, I think you should either reroll your class, or ALT+F4 and find how to uninstall. It would be nice though to see new mounts that aren't paid content..

 

TBH The game is so badly optimized that even super pcs (like mine) run super crappy and low, The alt+12 Fix does shoot my regular fps from 5 to 20. But the fps lag is the game's fault. I can be in a over 200 player area in different MMO's and i will have no lag, Here with 20 people im chugging at 15 fps.

[SETSUNAf6w]

Other MMORPGs can have thousands of players in a big city with a minimal amount of lag if any. Those games don't work with fairy tale magic. What RO2 needs is better optimization. More rendering efficiency and smarter networking. I have heard about that new feature allowing to "hide" players, that's just creatively hiding a problem without fixing it.

[Greven79]

It's impressive that an unimportant side note in my original statement has created a whole new discussion.

 

Yes, Ragnarok really has some serious performance issues, but it's not completely their fault. Usually, a game engine is bought, not developed. IIRC a Gamebryo engine is used for Ragnarok.

 

But of course, developers can still 'ruin' it. Morrowwind, Skyrim, Torchlight & co. allow players to create your own mods. Adding too many lightings or too many sprites can easily cause a significant fps drop. I learned that the hard way as well. Certain skills in Ragnarok are known to cause these kinds of problems as well. It's also remarkable that even if 100 monsters are lured together, the frame rate won't go down significantly. And during WoE, masses of siege engines are still less an issue than a few enemy players. To see this makes it hard to believe that it's not possible to have a WoE with visible enemies and a good frame rate.

 

But it's also the way how informations are transmitted. F.e. when you use Battle Leap, the animation might go off smoothly, but stops right before the impact. This is caused, because your PC is still waiting for the server response about which enemies are actually hit. Same thing with the 'out of range' or undamageable enemy mess. This is caused, because the position of an enemy seen on your screen is different to the information used by the server. To prevent abusal, the server checks whether you're in range or not, but doesn't send you the correct position.

 

In my opinion, adding PecoPeco mounts during WoE shouldn't have such a high impact on the overall situation. If you hide the weapons, you've just replaced the 'item' that needs to be animated. Didn't join the PecoPeco race, but there should be other ways to check this. A few guilds might just call their players together or negotiate certain treaties during WoE. Switching weapons will show, whether the weapon glowplays such a big role.

 

 

 

[CMMaridah]

I can pass on the suggestion but I have a few questions. Aside from issues with performance, do any of you see a potential for the inclusion of mounts negatively effecting gameplay in WoE? It's mentioned that you couldn't stealth while on the mount, but are there any other concerns about players having that additional speed while in WoE?

[Shinyusuke]

If all the players will have the same mount the only negative aspect will be for the attack party that unless the attacked one chose to dismount they will be able to run away from the battle using the increased speed but the attackers won't be able to follow since in combat status you can't use a mount. Also if this could generate a good number of different ambush to stun or block players to not let them escape. Example hidden rangers that drop traps when the enemy party is passing, shield boomerang coming from nowere (camping knights). There are always pro and con but i think them will be balanced if a woe mount is introduced

[Greven79]

Aside from issues with performance, do any of you see a potential for the inclusion of mounts negatively effecting gameplay in WoE? It's mentioned that you couldn't stealth while on the mount, but are there any other concerns about players having that additional speed while in WoE?

 

Yes, there are certain implications... as Shinyusuke has pointed out. I'd like to rephrase it a bit, because my original idea already included to remove the 'you can't use a mount during combat" restriction (replaced by a casting time similar to Ymir Form).

 

The biggest issue is the speed difference between mounted and unmounted players.

 

If the mounted ones are too fast (balancing), it might not be possible to stop them. In order to attack, you'd have to start a fight and that means you have to unmount first, causing you to lose the speed bonus and with it the capability to chase your target. Whether this is a bad thing or not depends on the final implementation - it could even be something strategical. Fighting against characters in Ymir form / active guardians while yours are on cooldown causes the same thing... even worse.

 

So the actual speed bonus is the key part here!

 

Some characters are already faster when they don't ride a PecoPeco (thanks to wind runes, VIP & WoE buff).

 

And this means, not only the stealth characters are affected. Classes like beastmasters, assassins (forgot about rangers last time) might get nerfed indirectly, because they can't bring their class-specific speed bonuses to full potential. F.e. how much worth is a Tiger Form, if you can use a PecoPeco instead? (well, might still circumvent the casting time for mounting)

 

Also keep in mind that Ghost Palaquins have a specific speed as well. This might force players to choose between faster mounts and invisibility (well, it's the same right now, but it shouldn't stay unmentioned since mounts might be used more frequently than wind pots).

 

Finally, the actual mount / unmount procedure might need some attention (how to avoid too many switches).

____________________

 

But my request also aimed for two other things:

 

1. Keep the combat speed down!

I understand that players want to be as fast as possible, but a dogfight between two modern jets is still something different than a medieval sword fight. Being too fast can cause a combat bug (the monster isn't resetted correctly), might cause more 'out of range' issues, players might end up dead because they moved way too far during a short server lag/delay and it makes kiting mobs much easier.

 

However, the worst implication is that stacking all the speed bonuses available (wind pots, ymir, guardian, class-bonuses, wind runes, WoE buff, VIP, etc) makes fights rather impractical - and prevents the strategic use of formations / positioning. Different speed bonuses also cause a shift in class balance. Classes with melee attacks, with skills that have a casting time and attacks that must be aimed at a specific target are less valuable. Soulmaker links will also break much more easily. And it devaluates class-specific speed benefits. (100% vs. 130% is different to 200% vs. 230%)

 

To goal should be: Get to the battle quickly, but be reasonably slow during each fight.

 

2. Create an alternative to Urgent Recall / Kafra teleports:

This depends on the decision, whether you want to allow mounts with a temporary speed boost or not. The obvious balancing issues aside (see mounted vs. unmounted), it would allow to cut a 2min walk on Morroc WoE down to a 30sec sprint.

 

(Keep in mind that the dots on the mini-map are already displayed with a certain delay)

Edited by Greven79, 08 January 2015 - 11:23 AM.

[CMMaridah]

If conditions such as speed caps or one mount type only were not possible (basically the mounts would be the same in and out of WoE) would you still prefer they be available to use on the WoE maps or not?

[Vau]

If conditions such as speed caps or one mount type only were not possible (basically the mounts would be the same in and out of WoE) would you still prefer they be available to use on the WoE maps or not?

 

No mounts on WoE, Maridah, no more breaking stuff, we know and you know how Gravity works. I don't want to go off-topic more than this, but there's really important issues in-game right now to be worrying about damn mounts, honestly.
 

[hakuon1988]

no mounts is still better i guess... now is pretty nice wif no mounts on woe... don want see new bug pop out agian 

[Greven79]

If conditions such as speed caps or one mount type only were not possible (basically the mounts would be the same in and out of WoE) would you still prefer they be available to use on the WoE maps or not?

 

I agree with Vau on this. It should be clear that this idea isn't that important. IMO, a class rebalance should have the topmost priority.

 

Although I doubt that this would be end up broken mechanically (as I've said, it's not that different from wind pots, ymir or shapechanges), it's still risky by other means... like anything new. No matter how small the change, there's still plenty of room for bugs. And it's a modification that's not easily tested by the VCRs (impact on WoE).

 

F.e. I am not sure what happens if you're knocked down or frozen while on a mount... I tested it with stun (goblin leader), silence (sohee) and snare (bears), but not with the other two effects. So it would be necessary to spend some time to implement it (to remove the combat restriction, maybe even adding a casting time to mount) and to test it, and that money is better used for more important fixes.

 

Sure, I'd like to see it, but I would put it behind/below other more eminent things.

Edited by Greven79, 08 January 2015 - 02:40 PM.

[CMMaridah]

You are all welcome to post ideas for features like this in this section regardless of priority. It's a suggestion section, so it's for your ideas on any number of topics, not just PvP balance or overall gameplay. Whether they go into the game is up to development and what they can do within their schedule.
Requests that are not a major change to the game are still considered and passed along. Some are implemented as they do not have a large impact on the development schedule.  These are features like the alt+F12 option. Not a big change, but helpful. 

If you currently participate in WoE I'd like to hear what you think about having the option to use your mount without specific restrictions on speed, etc. If you think it would greatly effect WoE, I'll hold off on passing it along.
Gameplay and balance discussions are for another thread. Let's keep on topic with this one.
I'd like to hear from a few more players if you are active in WoE.

[5318130516144610857]

If conditions such as speed caps or one mount type only were not possible (basically the mounts would be the same in and out of WoE) would you still prefer they be available to use on the WoE maps or not?

 

 There would be more motivation to buy faster mounts and less to have higher wind greenseed. As a WOE and f2p player it is, aside from removing the 10min wind potions that were designed imo mainly thinking to be used in WOE map, the only big minus I see that comes with this idea.

 

 To answer your question, no I would not prefer they be available to use on the WOE maps.

[Greven79]

I came up with this suggestion, because I find mounts more flavorful than kafra flights, warp scrolls, butterfly wings, wind pots, ymir form or guardians. But they have to compete with these alternatives. So I was wondering what would happen, if mounts were the primary or only source for a speed bonus. And that thought eventually brought me to question, why they're forbidden on certain maps. As a software developer, I assumed that it's just a simple flag that marks whether they can be used or not, so it would be very easy to change it. But like Shinyusuke, I had concerns about the combat bug.

 

I mention this to make it obvious that my starting idea wasn't about effectiveness.

 

If you currently participate in WoE I'd like to hear what you think about having the option to use your mount without specific restrictions on speed, etc. If you think it would greatly effect WoE, I'll hold off on passing it along.

 

The current WoE situation is:

 

Situation 1 - noone attacks:

WoE is plain boring. Nothing to do. Players might even start to create shapes out of siege weapon minimap dots.

 

Situation 2 - with attacks:

The only existing strategy is: A stealth character with guild leadership uses Urgent Recall right in front of the enemy.

Players teleport there, fight, die, use spinels + kafras until one side has the upper hand.

That's it. That's the reality and all you have to know about WoE.

 

Thanks to Urgent Recall, noone really moves during WoE... you're teleported. So mounts aren't important.

Mounts would be a complete different approach, so it's hard to fortell such a scenario and to answer your question.

 

 

Edited by Greven79, 09 January 2015 - 08:02 AM.