109 replies to this topic

[Viri]

Just wondering what the damage calculation for pvp is like on EDP-linked sonic blow since it's pvp environment. You could theoretically run something like 2x SL + sinx right? kaite/kaupe spam would be pretty hilarious?

 

O no duplicates. Still then. Hwiz linker sinx? If the other team has a hwiz linker could pretty easily 1 shot them with a well placed step into an SG with kaite on. Also you could have... married sinx and linker I suppose.

 

I guess also the benefit of being on an unlinked linker means you can cancel assumptio by casting kaite on an enemy.

Edited by Viri, 16 January 2015 - 12:16 PM.

[Hardc0re]

nope

Edited by Hardc0re, 19 January 2015 - 11:55 AM.

[Gn1ydnu]

There is a lot of possibilities of comps and a ton of ideas tbh.

For hardcore, I feel horrible for anybody who picks bio for first and only class. It is not an a good choice for any newer player at all.

For your example with EDP, I asked the question for people here because idk what people thought of it being used. It is a consumable and is a huge steroid. My opinion is it doesn't matter, but want to know peoples opinions.

Nothing is set in stone, but bios won't be given infinite mats to play with. There is not going to be a crazy ban thing as you alluded to, instead taking care of problems before they happen. Played in the exact game mode that we are recreating the entire length of Loki (original) and still played by those ideals in Ymir (duels). We aren't talking about just randomly banning stuff or limiting stuff because "it's thought" to be op, it would be informed decisions based on years and years and years of first hand experience. Both experiences of "fun" and other experiences that were "kill joys". Nothing is blindly being out up for discussion.

I hope that helps, hardcore.

I understand what you are saying as far as meta and remove 1 thing and another replaces it. For a linked sinx to be able to sb somebody means they have very limited reduction and must be in melee range. Again compared to the bio, they are at a safe range with drastically more damage and more spam well sacrificing nothing (including positioning and reductions).

Edited by Gn1ydnu, 16 January 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[HansLowell]

which day and what time

thanks

[Xellie]

. For a linked sinx to be able to sb somebody means they have very limited reduction and must be in melee range. Again compared to the bio, they are at a safe range with drastically more damage and more spam well sacrificing nothing (including positioning and reductions).

 

Additionally, a sinx will be hurt hard by the SP usage of EDP and sonic blow.

 

SinX base SP is ~ 512 without any sp mods (so a little more with variants) but that's something in the region of 3 EDP casts and 8 SBs. Don't let them touch you and they wear themselves out.
 

This doesn't count for grimtooth or hide or cloak or backslide or anything else.

 

There's also a 3 second cast delay to think of, and those rooms won't be very big.

[Viri]

3sec cast delay on linked sb in PvP? Link removes the delay entirely. You just one shot everyone.

[Xellie]

3sec cast delay on linked sb in PvP? Link removes the delay entirely. You just one shot everyone.

 

Talking about EDP (the skill itself), silly Viri. 

[Viri]

Hurr my bad.

[Rumm]

I've always wanted to see something like this!  A couple quick points

 

- You should require every member to stay in party so Mind Breaker can't be used.

 

- Why not allow biochemists but simply ban AB & FCP?  Their aid potion skills with bomb/acid terror and their homuc could make for interesting support.  This way you could have a hp/sp healer aside from just HP or Scholar. 

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Aid Pot = Consumables, unless you mean Zerks. PvP tourney is no HP/SP pots allowed.

[Rumm]

Even if it is a skill requirement?  Just set a cap to it.  

 

Oh also one other point, if you plan on doing this in pvp rooms then you should probably have each participant killed once before the match begins so they can lose any hidden buffs.

Edited by Rumm, 18 January 2015 - 04:22 AM.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Even if it is a skill requirement?  Just set a cap to it.  If you truly want to ban all consumables, then you'd also have to ban edp...

 

Oh also one other point, if you plan on doing this in pvp rooms then you should probably have each participant killed once before the match begins so they can lose any hidden buffs.

 

+1 to this if the special room can't strip buffs on entry.

 

What's really crap about setting caps on consumables is that there's no way to check how many a character has in their inventory (afaik?). It's better to allow or disallow rather than limit.

 

The no consumable room as it currently is will let you in with as many pots as you want, but you can't use them. If you say to people "you can only have 20 slims for aid pot", that's all well and good but how do you know if they only have 20 and not 2000?

[Rumm]

Drat good point,that would be too hard to manage.

Well if a custom room blocks item use, I presume it wouldnt block skills that use items. If a room could be made (by GMs I presume)then simply add to it specific skill bans as well.

[Gn1ydnu]

Keeping track of 5 acid bombs will be manageable. Counting spp throws as well would add a whole new element to watch for. The healing is insaine too, upwards of 30k per second to multiple high vit characters. Not sure how I feel about that because it is very borderline to consumable useage, although it's part of a skill.

[Xellie]

consideration of banning magic strings to enforce non spamming / higher skill play?

[Rumm]

Keeping track of 5 acid bombs will be manageable. Counting spp throws as well would add a whole new element to watch for. The healing is insaine too, upwards of 30k per second to multiple high vit characters. Not sure how I feel about that because it is very borderline to consumable useage, although it's part of a skill.

 

Well one way to look at it is just to compare support for 3v3  (*HPS = Heals Per Second), when lined up next to each other, I think these 3 each seem pretty beefy for support.

 

High Priest: 2~3k heal (6~9k HPS), pneuma, Safety Wall, Lex, Assump/KE, Status Recovery

Scholar: Soul Exhale, Dispel, double bolt, fiberlock, Blind Mist, ME, Safety Wall, endows, deluge

Biochemst: Aid potion (10~30k HPS & ?? SP healing), acid terror, bomb, vani bolts, marine sphere

 

Meanwhile Bio's counterparts can both completely nullify melee damage and can partially or completely nullify ranged damage, while the bio just heals for more on select targets (100vit swordies).  It's a pretty darn fair trade

Edited by Rumm, 18 January 2015 - 09:41 AM.

[Hardc0re]

Ok I'm done with it, good luck with the tournament

[Xellie]

Oh I highly recommend forcing the team be in the same party at all times (usrc rule!)

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Is this still a thing? Can we get updates on the rules you hadn't yet finalised?

[Gn1ydnu]

Rules can't be made until I get responses going over what exactly can and can't be done so the rules are done right the first time and dot need to be updated.

Basically waiting for responses.

[Gn1ydnu]

Going over desired map. Last chance for input!

[AlmrOfAtlas]

Update please.

[darkabe]

If you're looking for a map I'm gonna suggest a clone of that area in Kiel Hyre quest where you have to fight the quest boss. The spectators could be summoned in the center (where the npcs are in the quest) and would be made unable to move around or skill/attack (maybe just make them overweight just like in the ranger job change quest). Then the contestants could fight around,over that green area.

[Gn1ydnu]

Update please.

Map will be out for testing hopefully by the 11th. Final rule list and sign up should be up before then.

[AlmrOfAtlas]

I just thought of something.

 

Given that there will be consumable restrictions and such in place, what's going to happen with carts? I can see them being somewhat subversive to getting things through the net, to hold more bombing mats than are allowed, and stuff like that. Will they be disabled?

 

I ask this because I main Mastersmith, and the class literally does not function without a cart present and at full capacity.