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New Multiclient in Farm rule, fair or no?


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#1 Coolsam

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 06:12 AM

Okay so recently if you haven't discovered, Dragon Saga posted on their facebook that an issue with Multiple-Clients afk'ing in Port of Winds Farm has apparently become a problem and will now place any multi-client users in there under investigation, even resulting in bans.

 

Now if you don't know about multi-clienting, I'll shed light. It's the use of some, technically 3rd party so understandable, programs that allow you to access multiple clients of Dragon Saga on the same computer. Players have used it to fill party slots for farming, afk in Port of Winds Farm, get necessary 4-man groups for F7, the whole nine yards.

 

Now naturally, GM's may find a program like this wrong as it promotes playing multiple accounts at once. However a long time ago, GM's like Hastur and ShazamO have technically approved their use, probably stating that as long as it didn't cross some lines it would be okay. So of course players, hearing that GM's have no qualms about it, didn't see any reason to not do it.

 

Now I have rarely multi-cliented. I made the mistake of making all my main characters on 1 account having never known of the possibilities with it. But I wish to ask; Is it fair that you now start to place restrictions on habits players have been doing for a long time that were previously okay? I understand that multi-afk'ing is a bad thing as professions is an afk-heavy system. But the system is flawed so much that it pretty much asks to use it to minimize time required to obtain things from there. Just to remind everyone of what has to be done to get everything in professions without spending thousands, if not tens of thousands, of gold: You have multiple gathering and multiple processing jobs in order to make anything, and it requires combinations of them to get specific things which in the end, penalizes you for training multiple ones on a single character with precious %exp drops. Combine that with a fatigue system and IM to either speed up the process or remove fatigue restraints and you can see why players need to use multiple characters at once.

 

Now another point I wish to bring up is other flaws in Dragon Saga's GM team when it comes to other rule violations. Trade chat having spammers and IM sellers which is both against the rules, but has rarely seen anything done about them. Other 3rd party programs previously investigated or gone ignored despite reports being made. And you're focusing on something considered tame and acceptable by multiple players, even those who don't abuse it.

 

So I wanna ask the players:

  • Do you afk frequently at Port of Winds Farm?
  • If you do, how long does it typically take to get everything you need?
  • Is the new Port of Winds farm policy on Multi-clienters fair?
  • If yes; explain.
  • If no; explain why.
  • Do you feel that Professions needs a reworked system to prevent this sort of thing from being a necessity as it is?
  • Do you think other programs should be focused over Multi-client programs?

Looking for feedback. This isn't a rant or an insult to GMs, merely giving and asking for information and discussions.


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#2 reqt

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 06:59 AM

I've been afking in pow farm 20-30% of my play time since I started. Even with minimum 5 hours of farm per day with the help of 2 other characters, it takes 3 days to gather enough materials to make 50 g2 recovery socket boxes. And these boxes doesn't usually give the cards that I want (at least 4% max hp) even when opening 50 boxes at once. Imagine farming with a single charac without help from the other 2. It would take 9 days and if all the cards I got were thrash and unwanted ones, 9 days of waiting down the drain. I think that if we implement a system like if we opened 50 boxes at one go, we have a guaranteed chance of getting a 10* card (for example) as a bonus incentive for people who actually puts in the time to go farm in pow using only 1 charac. Also 5 hours of farming a day barely increases my herbing skills by 2 points from 400-500 range. How many years do I have to take to make all my characters' skills to 500 if I do it one by one and to get the necessary level 8 cards for my gears for a single character. And multi clienting as stated has not really been a problem in this server as many are ok with it. Programs such as botting allows players to do dungeon and mission runs without manning the character. Isnt that much worse than multiclienting? They afk and gets to clear dungeons whereas others have to put in effort and press the keys for many hours to clear the same number of times that they do. What about scammers like hunthor/xhunt/felinymph. These 3 are the same person and yet continuous scamming have been occurring since last year up till today by the same person. This person has scammed at least 10 ppl in this server and if 10 cases isnt enough for a perma ban then what is? We might as well become scammers ourselves a since the punishment isnt as harsh as multiclienting
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#3 Nhat

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 07:04 AM

By design, profession almost forces players to afk in pow farm since no one is crazy enough to sit there for hours while their characters are doing profession. What's crazy is warpportal have no way to regulate this entire "multiclient" thing since coming from a family of multiple players, there's no way they can tell the difference between me playing on two separate computer or my little brother is playing on one since it's simply starting and then afk. 


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#4 Coolsam

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 07:08 AM

 

 

I've been afking in pow farm 20-30% of my play time since I started. Even with minimum 5 hours of farm per day with the help of 2 other characters, it takes 3 days to gather enough materials to make 50 g2 recovery socket boxes. And these boxes doesn't usually give the cards that I want (at least 4% max hp) even when opening 50 boxes at once. Imagine farming with a single charac without help from the other 2. It would take 9 days and if all the cards I got were thrash and unwanted ones, 9 days of waiting down the drain.

 

This is precisely what I was looking for for a case about the grind-time needed for professions. From what I can calculate on your experience, for only 50 boxes it takes 45 hours of afk-time and work total just for chances at what you need.

 

The system of professions seems to promote the use of multi-clienting. But they decide to make it against the rules which promotes long (5 hour+ from what I've read) periods of afk'ing.

 

 

 

And multi clienting as stated has not really been a problem in this server as many are ok with it. Programs such as botting allows players to do dungeon and mission runs without manning the character. Isnt that much worse than multiclienting? They afk and gets to clear dungeons whereas others have to put in effort and press the keys for many hours to clear the same number of times that they do.

 

Agreed. There are worse programs than multi-client programs. Afk'ing 3 alts in PoW Farm for a few hours is not nearly as bad as Afk'ing a party of 4 in a commonly spammed dungeon like Van Cliff, Drakos, or even Elements.

 

 

 

What about scammers like hunthor/xhunt/felinymph. These 3 are the same person and yet continuous scamming have been occurring since last year up till today by the same person. This person has scammed at least 10 ppl in this server and if 10 cases isnt enough for a perma ban then what is?

 

Here's another case where something that violates terms of service in a worse case is ignored vs a small and often accepted issue. A scammer has been doing this for a full year and gets ignored is not really a good sign of priorities.


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#5 IreKire

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 09:07 AM

not fair, as they already started banning people who were asleep and did not know the rule had went into effect until after they were already banned. even if this was a rule that they were adamant about implementing they should have given time for those over seas to see the posts before banning. sadly that's another im buyer down and not returning, so the rule is killing their own profits.


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#6 Coolsam

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 09:13 AM

not fair, as they already started banning people who were asleep and did not know the rule had went into effect until after they were already banned. even if this was a rule that they were adamant about implementing they should have given time for those over seas to see the posts before banning. sadly that's another im buyer down and not returning, so the rule is killing their own profits.

 

Then they need to retract the bans and give warnings. A forced disconnection followed by a mailbox warning from a WarpPortal GM is the better choice. Everyone knows full well that overnight Professions afk'ing is a thing so it is definitely unfair to insta-ban players while they are sleeping and unable to read the warning and log out.

 

The policy was posted on the main website for Dragon Saga as well as Facebook. However there is no forum topic regarding the new Policy from what I've seen. Not everyone uses the Dragon Saga Facebook or Main Page as a source of news.


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#7 godzylla3

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 09:51 AM

I am a long term player and I did AFK farm in POW Farm, I am currently trying to make marbles to enchant shift and soul shift my gear and have been working on it for the last few weeks just to get enough items to make what I need. After almost a entire day of afk farming I have a total of 5 lvl 6 bless items that are needed to even make the insurance to soul shift the drop rate is exhausting.  Not to mention if you try to farm more then 2 areas you fail 90% of the time.   I also had to get help from friends because after afk farming you fatigue is too low to make much.  For the IM fatigue pots and the speed up pots that used to be in the cash mall are no longer there not since they changed the farming system a few years ago.  I am getting tired of having to spend weeks afk to gather what I need and reduces my actual play time, I am a IM buyer and over the last few years spent money quite often yet now I don't know if I will continue if on 2 different characters its taking me weeks and now I can only farm on one it seams more like a waste of time.  


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#8 Miname

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 10:48 AM

LMAO


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#9 Rabbicarpo2011

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 01:15 PM

If they're trying to kill the game, it's succeeding. They have more important things to worry about than a stupid multi client program.
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#10 zirothos

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 02:44 PM

  • Do you afk frequently at Port of Winds Farm?

i don't go to POW cause i got some friend who do it for me it take to much time to make some item who in the end worth almost nothing.

  •  
  • Is the new Port of Winds farm policy on Multi-clienters fair?

i don't mind see Multi-clienters why would i be. Professions systeme is a pain in the *** so of course some player will go  Multi-clienters to make it faster to get what they want. even with  Multi-clienters you wont do much money. You will make more money with  a good party farm from kryos 10h run. even solo we can make more money then a  Multi-clienters in POW.

  •  
  • Do you feel that Professions needs a reworked system to prevent this sort of thing from being a necessity as it is?

if they do a rework and make think easier and faster maybe player will stop  Multi-clienters.

 

 

before focusing over  Multi-clienters they should focus of making the game a better place to play. less crash/server lost/ correct bug and make event work correctly. fix Galaxis f6 xD

Fix all small bug.

 

for sure  Multi-clienters Gold farm should be warn after >>>> ban for a short period. but not a perma ban, maybe if you get ban 3 or 4 time now you can perma ban for it.

 

they should focus on IM scammer more then  Multi-clienters.

 

and Hack <<<<====== hmm i don't even know if there some in the game any more xD.


Edited by zirothos, 25 February 2015 - 02:46 PM.

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#11 Popcorn

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 02:49 PM

 

before focusing over  Multi-clienters they should focus of making the game a better place to play. less crash/server lost/ correct bug and make event work correctly. fix Galaxis f6 xD

Fix all small bug.

 

 

 

Okay, let me explain. These two things you just mentioned have nothing to do with each other.

Addressing issues regarding players are the task of our support team.

Fixing bugs, making the game more stable, etc. are the task of a development team.

 

As you surely have read here in the forums, at the moment Gravity US is in the process of taking over the development of DS from Gravity Korea. There is no dev team at the moment which would be able to do what all of us are wishing: improvements to the game and bugfixes.

 

That surely will happen sometime when the process is done, but everything what has to do with licenses, copyrights and such things can be a longsome process and will take a while. We can only stay patient.


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#12 zirothos

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 02:52 PM

kk sorry about that^^ 


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#13 Popcorn

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 02:56 PM

kk sorry about that^^ 

 

No need to apologize. It wasn't meant offending. I just wanted to say, that I also wish we could get bugfixes and such :)


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#14 zirothos

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 02:58 PM

by the way, you should clean the post for the maintenance info now that we have this topic to chat on.


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#15 MrBonBonCat

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 03:31 PM

what?????? i should watch my character gathering now??????

i always put my character to POW for gathering when i'm sleeping / working at my store. why should i watch those stupid gathering process like a dumb in front of my pc?

why don't you make those stupid gathering items like fish/herb/ore/wood not tradeable / sold at market stall?

it's better than killing real player without multicilenting.


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#16 Homurasan

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 03:43 PM

About multi-clienting : as it indeed is " " "forbidden" " " on most games for several reasons (including equality between players, loss of profits and so on), I'm surprised it wasn't on Dragon Saga already. 

 

The thing is : multi-clienting is a way to increase the number of given items in the game (such as Secma set parts, socket cards...). The fact that the population of the server is still low (and seemingly growing) makes it quite useful : I prefer buying Paris' wings from someone who looted them double-accounting than having to find some twice their price because of a lack of players actually killing this witch. Same goes for socket cards : the ones that aren't useful to the players crafting them can be sold, and the more there are, the cheaper they're bought, so not only multi-clienting players benefit of this system.

 

As for the AFK issue... whoever is using their play time rather than their sleeping time to gather herbs and ores... I don't think it even is reasonable. It isn't any fun to look at a character, be it pretty or anything, when it's acting as dull as hitting the ground with a pickaxe, again and again.

So, solution to this problem : make character's movements a little wee bit randomized (e.g 5 different gathering animations). Or create a maid / model job for players to actually look at their screen. That would need some incredible costumes though, such as swimsuits, western maid and chinese outfits (look at Dragon N*censored* for a few ideas)... Which in turn would make people buy items from the cash shop. Wonderful, wouldn't it be ? \o/

 

 

PS : Does this whole thing mean we can stay AFK in the PoW farm if we quit once we finish ? Like, planned computer shut down, macros or such ? :P


Edited by Homurasan, 25 February 2015 - 03:46 PM.

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#17 xCroSsLuMi

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Posted 28 February 2015 - 09:57 PM

1 way to solve everything: STOP FARMING AND START PVPING.


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#18 Homurasan

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Posted 01 March 2015 - 01:02 PM

PvP is so unfair most people only try once => people decide to farm => multi-client is the easiest way = multi-client ban => whatever may result of it.

 

Works well this way, too. It's not that I don't like being instagibbed by a Destroyer I wouldn't even hope to kill within a minute if he'd stay still ; I just find it less useful than slaying a big icy dragon or a korean witch to make some money.


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#19 SoulSight

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 03:42 PM

I have reread this on facebook from Dragon Saga page

Feb 24th

 

Important Notice!

This affects all players in game and is effective immediately.

Due to an increase in the report and abuse of muti-clienting in Port of Winds Farm. The decisions has been made to prohibit the use of multi-clienting on that map. If you are witnessed logged in with multiple characters farming. You will be subjected to investigation. There will be no additional warnings and will be considered a violation of the Terms of Service

 

Feb 25th

 

It seems our announced change in policy yesterday regarding Multi-clienting has caused more concern than we had intended it to.

We hope to clear up a few points as it could have been worded better. The policy was put in place to prevent players from severely abusing multiple clients. These are players who have clearly created a large number of accounts and characters just for the sole purpose of auto gathering in Port of Winds Farm.

The policy will be changed to affect players using multiple clients for abusive behavior in Port of Winds Farm.

For the other maps such as dungeons, missions, etc. We do have a team of GM members testing players in game. If you make the decision to use multiple clients to control the characters and a GM decides to test you in game, a immediate reply is required from the character being tested. There is no excuse for the character to be moving around and not respond to a GM's message or tests. If you need to type a message in all chat, please do so.

Unsuccessfully completing the GM's test will result in the team flagging the account as a 3rd party program user. As mentioned in our Terms of Service, it is strictly prohibited and will result in the suspension of the account.

 

Ok so how about dual clients? ._.


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#20 StormHaven

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 03:59 PM

Ok.

1. I want you read those very carefully,because it tells you the answer.

2. Locked because necrobumping.


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