40 replies to this topic

[Njoror]

Hello!

 

This week marks the beginning of the 4th season of Volunteer Community Representatives (VCRs). One of the changes this term is the addition of this weekly report, available for everyone to view. We hope it allows everybody to see what we have been doing, progress made, and challenges faced.

 

In addition to a short introduction, this report will include two major sections:

“Hot Topics & Known Issues” will list the current highly discussed items that we are aware of and working on.

“Bug Report Summary” will include bugs that we have reported in the last week, need more information for, and issues the VCRs reported that were marked as fixed in the current week’s patch notes.

 

Let’s begin with announcing the VCRs for this term:

 

Aphrodyae - Odin

Arbalist - Odin

ChronoJXF - Odin

DietSodaa - Freyja

donchan - Odin

Espiritista - Freyja

FlamePhantom - Odin

GarudaBlack - Odin

Kanhime - Odin

kevv - Odin

Kimichisu - Odin

Kuchys - Odin

Kyper - Odin

Leila - Odin

Likometa - Odin

Matsuyuki - Odin

Mishhan - Odin

Niiu - Odin

Raikuha - Odin

RitsukaAoyagi - Odin

SageLeaf - Odin

SaikanoxP4 - Odin

Sarasah - Odin

Suncor - Odin

Tamlen - Odin

Tonitrua - Odin

TouRyuu - Odin

VanillaCookies - Odin

xBezelheim - Odin

xNikix - Odin

xZELLc - Freyja

 

Hot Topics & Known Issues

• Falling Damage is still a problem. Please see Needing More Information in the Bug Report Summary section for more details.

• Out of Range bug is still a problem. However, it has recently been reported again with a new list of videos and images to display the problem. We will continue to take videos and screenshots of new information as it is obtained.

• Class Balance: We will be taking a fresh look at class balance this term. This includes a new method of discussing and reporting the issues found, taking a new look at the skills (both functionally and mathematically) and stats of each class, how each class interacts with other classes, and the roles each class is intended to perform. In addition, the VCRs will be working closely with me, and members of Gravity’s development team (including the lead skill designer) will be checking it frequently.

• Eddga equipment: we are aware of community concerns with the equipment, especially concerning the following areas: offhand rune holes, stats, drop rate, token system.

• Ignatius equipment would be more interesting if it could be honed.

• Safe paths for walking in Forgotten Payon so players are able to get where they need to go.

• Daily Attendance is still buggy and the items need to be updated. We have submitted a request for different items from the calendar, and still need to figure out what is happening with the issue.

We have also received some feedback from Gravity on a few subjects:

• They are aware of the issues with Battle Tactics and are looking into ways to fix it. We are expecting to receive a test version soon so we can check the progress and provide input. This is in addition to our work to rebalance the classes.

• They are discussing removing Rune Enhancement Elixirs from the Kafra shop so they can be re-tuned now that the new system is available. Date for this is still unknown.

• They are interested in changing the Refine Transfer Ticket from a direct purchase item, and instead placing it in a box such as the Platinum Elite Box.

 

Bug Report Summary

Reported issues are given one of the following categories:

• Critical - these are bugs that have game-breaking implications, interfere with gameplay or combat (especially PvP), or are exploitable.

• Moderate - these bugs present an annoyance to users, may confuse or frustrate players that don't understand them, but don't have a major impact on gameplay.

• Minor - these bugs are mostly visual issues or quirks; they don't actually have any substantial impact on gameplay but should probably be fixed anyway.

• Tweak - this is a suggested change to an existing part of the game that isn’t working right. Tweaks are lower priority than Minor, but are still evaluated by the development team.

For certain issues, we may ask members of the community (you!) to help us gather some information. These will be listed under “Needing More Information” with a description of what is being requested. Work will continue on the issue as normal, but will go faster and/or be more beneficial to everybody with your input.

 

Recently Reported

• [Minor] PAB and Phantom Pyramid Spinels have same restrictions, but don’t stack. This was reported as a bag space inconvenience.

• [Minor] Some visual bugs with costume items: Queen Mask, Viking Cape, Recruit Costume, and Marine Casual.

• [Minor] “Strange Kid” on Prontera Area tokens is really named “Gabriel”

• [Minor] Fortress of Sandarman scarecrows attacking

• [Minor] Cazar gear not showing preview during dye process

• [Minor] Eddga Dual Daggers are facing the wrong direction

• [Minor] Craft screen’s level bar displaying job name and experience text twice

• [Minor] Heal skills not always displaying values healed

• [Minor] Issue where an incomplete Ymir transformation occurs

• [Moderate] Eddga Bible isn’t Bind on Equip like it should be

• [Moderate] Issue with Love Disrupter quest

• [Moderate] Issue with Jehoon Training Ground

• [Moderate] Issue with Dark Illusion causing the targeted monster to run to the spot you were

• [Moderate] Quest Start items don’t always activate properly

• [Moderate] Dark Whisper Upper and one of the Alberta portals face the player in the wrong direction when spawned. Other portals were reported fixed this week, so we’ve re-submitted the issue with these extra spots.

• [Moderate] Some skills can have a “silent cooldown” where the skill is on cooldown, but it is not displayed on the skill.

• [Critical] Slow effects from different skills stack.

 

Needing More Information

• [Moderate] Master Battle Manual Order (MBMO) name is confusing because it has two versions (24 hour and 30 minute), but the description doesn’t always specify how long it lasts. It has been suggested that the 30 minute item’s name be changed to “Expert Battle Manual Order” along with a new icon to avoid confusion. We would like the community’s input on this name change.

• [Critical] Fall Damage issue was returned to us because it needs more information. This was last reported to Gravity on February 26, but was returned on March 2 because the developers want more video evidence. Any videos the community would be able to provide will be included to assist in the search for this issue’s root cause.

 

Recently Fixed

• [Moderate] The cooldown for a mount's Boost skill should display correctly now. Fixed!

• [Moderate] Academy Portal, Izlude Cave, and Dayr Statue Portal should face the character the correct direction when they're done loading. Fixed!

• [Moderate] If you die to the Einherjar, they should all properly reset. Fixed!

• [Moderate] Guild UI should now show a player in Silent Corridor instead of Culvert of Abyss. Fixed!

• [Minor] Lapi's Shadow minions should properly display the correct portrait when clicked in Silent Corridor. Fixed!

 

[RyuMax02]

 

• They are aware of the issues with Battle Tactics and are looking into ways to fix it. We are expecting to receive a test version soon so we can check the progress and provide input. This is in addition to our work to rebalance the classes.

• [Moderate] Master Battle Manual Order (MBMO) name is confusing because it has two versions (24 hour and 30 minute), but the description doesn’t always specify how long it lasts. It has been suggested that the 30 minute item’s name be changed to “Expert Battle Manual Order” along with a new icon to avoid confusion. We would like the community’s input on this name change.

 

There are no issue with battle tactics..really...lets the war begin..

It is really good idea to have different name for two different item..MMBO for 24 hours, EBMO for 30 minutes

[100000279723576]

If u change the battle tactics Im pretty sure the warriors will be dissapointed about this Especially warriors didnt have change since AOV i think all of the reporters are whining on Knight's skill it'l a big affect on warriors too also

[Emilizzard]

I'm not sure exactly what they're planning to do to Battle Tactics, but we're hoping they'll just adjust... something... about it to make it work more like it did pre-AoV, and how the skill was originally intended. The "issue with Battle Tactics" that is mentioned is the issue with damage output being really high.

 

But hey, at least we get to test it now instead of it going straight to the regular servers~

 

[Shinyusuke]

Just a warn to avoid QQ IF you change battle tactis you NEED to give knight and warriors:
1) Skill reset vellum to eventually abandon BT
2) Stat reset vellum to take off INT points
3) Runeremovers to take off INT runes
4) Any way to exchange INT runes for AGI or STR or also the old WIS or VIT runes
5)Honing scrubs and polish to rehone our equips.
6) The possibility to change magic colo accessories with meele ones (yes some of us at high level use them)
Everithing i listed is needed to reroll our precious knights and warriors and we will all pretend it so take it in consideration.
I'm not saying to not change BT, but if you do you need to give us all we need to change and not abandon us at our fate.

[Njoror]

As TouRyuu said, we're not sure yet what their approach is to change Battle Tactics, but we will be getting a test version to check it out before it becomes live.

 

As far as the rest of the report, or notes that you believe are missing, feel free to post them here. We want to include all the players in on what's going on this season, so we can funnel that feedback to Gravity.

 

Even if your feedback is that you think my avatar image is dumb.

 

I disagree with you, but I will take that feedback.

[jhay1825]

As per note though, if Battle Tactics are getting reworked which iam completely fine and have long wished for it ever since AoV was released.
Then please do not leave out Penetration for that matter as well. Dealing massive damage as near as 80K+ Cross impacts and Grimtooths, on tank classes.

Also 1 big Fun fact. Reworking damage formulas for every class can pretty much solve a lot of class balancing issues. Coz IF they do nerf BT and Penetration for that matter, magical Classes will still do 20K+ Dots per tick so another QQ /Balance issue thread will come up and this will be a never ending cycle of Class flavors.
So id really like for them to actually get something more of a close to LoTs formula BUT since PvE bosses HP have been adjusted, it should be not as weak as LoTs damage and not as strong and OP as what we have now. Meaning they got a lot of stuff to figure out and will actually require a lot of research for that matter which im not sure they are willing or happy to do.

#justmuh2cents

Edited by jhay1825, 05 March 2015 - 09:30 AM.

[Shinyusuke]

Maybe an easy solution to op damage in general can be a nerf in the refined values (and consequently adjust the monsters hp too)

it's really too much:

osiris sword 972-1017

+20 osiris sword 1406-1451

it's about an increase of 50% damage, it's way too much

add it to runes range values and honing and you will never archieve balance

 

If possible i would suggest to lower the values of all the stats modifier we have on gears for example

half honing values

half refine values

half seedrune values

it will be a placebo not a fix but will give you all more time to fix things

 

Just remember to lower the monsters difficulty after ml20 if you do so or no one wil be able to play without dieing countless times

[1633130515105152960]

Two suggestions:

1 - Battle Tactics:
     Cap it to 400% more damage. Then swordmans will have two options:
     - BT Lv2: They will need 1000 INT to achieve the cap. They can change some runes or honings

       to obtain another stats.
     - BT Lv1: They will need 2000 INT to achieve the cap and will have 1 extra Skill Point for another skill.

     It's better than a probable logarithmic formula.

 

2 -  Purple and Gold Rune holes:
     I think a better distribution could be:
     -Purple Rune Hole: Normal, Bind, Blueseed and Redseed runes. << Primary and secondary stat runes.

     -Gold Rune Hole: Greenseed and CLS runes. <<Special runes.

 

 

Edited by 1633130515105152960, 05 March 2015 - 03:42 PM.

[RyuMax02]

Ignoring about BT, other classes specialties such as over penetration or DoT are also need to be adjusted...It kill or get kill world..

Warrior or Knight need their luck to over crit their opponent before their defense turn into paper again penetration or overkill DoT.

Those thing also need to be consider..even if you have 40k+ defense but means nothing to super DoT user.

 

On the other note, Cazar gear cannot be dyed..It is true even though it capable to do it?

[HokaHoka]

Congratulations! May the elected VCRs work hard, together with the community, to make the game better!

 

Yay to BT nerf (or adjustment)!

 

I agree with Shinyusuke that devs need to give reset scrolls to swordmen so they can adjust to the overhaul, be it a simple reduction in damage (16331305 & Emillizard) or even maybe a change in how it functions.

 

Of course, if they have finally decided to do something to BT, they must do something to the rest (Jhay).

That means adjusting Priests' dots and heals, Soulmakers' cure, Wizards' performance, etc. I know it is tricky but perhaps BT is the start. We all want classes that perform the way they were meant to. Being hybrid is acceptable but to completely replace Sorcerers and Priests with Soulmakers is too much.

 

Now that sooner or later the overhaul will come, guess it's time to stop crafting +50 int runes and wait for the overhaul to be officially implemented. 

[Greven79]

I repeat the issues of Battle Tactics for like 500 days now.

 

Part 1:

Spoiler

For a balanced damage output, this skill isn't really necessary... especially for Warriors.

 

Warrior vs. Beastmaster - pure Cazar gear

Weapon: ~1477 vs. ~1422

Strength: 1744 vs. 1360

Phy.ATK: 5232 vs. 2720

 

Skill effect: 1974 vs. 1680

 

This means that even if a skill would have the same damage percentage, a Warrior deals 17,5% more damage than a Beastmaster.

Or to turn the statement around, every skill of a Beastmaster would have to have at least a 17,5% higher skill percentage.

Of course, there could be skills that increase the damage output differently. But to compensate, a Beastmaster would need a permanent 114% ATK bonus.

 

I'm talking about the pure carar gear. This doesn't include include differences in vigor, the +3 ATK/STR of the Warrior and excludes Battle Tactics.

It's just to show, how [sarcasm]underwhelming[/sarcasm] Warriors would be without such a skill.

 

But in the past, discussions usually ended up with fingers pointing at other inbalances.

 

Part 2:

Spoiler

It's not just the current damage, it's also the fact that it's one of the few skills that are based on a stat (INT).

Other skills increase Crit. (Mark of Genocide), Cast Speed (Suffragium) or ATK (Bear Form), but they all raise it by a fix percentage!

 

Aura Sword f.e. increases the PATK by +10% at character level 8 and will still do so at level 88.

Not so Battle Tactics. So imagine, the developers would have implemented Aura Sword this way:

 

Alt. Aura Sword (lvl5):

+0,05% PATK per STR

 

Let's assume you level it early. What would you get? Maybe +2%? Does it sound good? Would you use it?

Now look at it with 2000 STR: +100% PATK! What do you think of it now?

 

Therefore, there are only two options to alter this skill that balance it both for the low-level and maxed-out characters:

1. Introduce a scaling factor that counters the benefit
2. Give it a fix benefit

However, since the first idea will be difficult and still risky, I suggested the following solution:

 

New Battle Tactics:

20% damage per skill level on critical hits

 

Plain, simple and still effective.

 

... and I guess this won't be the last time.

 

I agree with Jhay and other players, that if the developers touch Battle Tactics now, this will either end up as a 'band-aid' solution OR in another broken situation since all the other inbalances are left untouched. So it would look like another 'class of the season' change.

 

So if I would work for Gravity, there would be a bug - by accident of course - that makes critical, vigor, cast speed, penetration, Cruel Bite heal and ATK bonuses per Str/Int all unfunctional. Just like back then, when defense wasn't working (if you remember). No battle tactics (= no crits), no one-shotting assassins, no perma-stunning priests, no triple-pet crecentias, no 50k HoTs, no insane DoTs (= no add. Matk advantage)......

 

Oops! 

 

Of course I would appologize and make a "we're still looking for the reason, but working hard to get it fixed" announcement, would give away some goodies, but secretly get the popcorn out and watch the forum. In the following riot, you would at least see truth....

That's the good thing about anger, it comes along with unbiased truth!

Edited by Greven79, 06 March 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[Fluidz]

cap penetration

cap int BT wise

remove offhands avalible greenseed slot

out of range/slide

invisble cd skills

AND FIX FPS ISSUES (what is the point of any previous fix if were forced to play at single digit fps at times)

 

but its good to see things being noted and posted on forums \o/

 

 

Edited by Fluidz, 06 March 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[bearCarnival]

 

suggestion #1

 

magical and physical attack pet inbalance

 

dmg are normal for mob level 1-50

 

however

 

dmg reduce on:

 

- osiris mob : matk pet dmg 100% --- patk pet reduces about 50%

- DWU/L mob : matk pet dmg 100% --- patk pet reduces about 80%

- FP mob : matk pet dmg 100% --- patk pet reduces about 84%

 

above number i got from friends, further testing is needed from devs end.

 

the dmg reduction makes pet like mermaid become significant overpower, dealing 6k dmg per second, 5 second give 30k damage. mermaid interval attack (another 10k every 2 second). other dot pet could tick every 2 second, bit not mermaid thus inconsistency.

 

a balance required to tone down pet damage on matk pet. Its whether makes both pet reduced by target defense.

 

 

suggestion #2

 

- weapon should have 2 gold rune slot

- class with off hand, will have 1 rune slot each

- same greenseed rune do not stack, it only take the highest %

 

if you remove off hand rune slot, the related class will qq-ing about rune remover or other compensation

 

 

suggestion #3

 

- cls def rune apply on all situation, not restrict to pvp only

 

I notice that update since AoV are all about damage boost (title, card, runes), which make all class able to become decent dps. However, weaker def class got no chance to increase survivality to non heal and non tank class

Edited by bearCarnival, 06 March 2015 - 08:04 PM.

[MikuMikuBeam]

Suggestion, pls revamp on how a stun mechanic would proc. It is so trouble some the way how it is in either pvp mode or pve. A stun skill should not proc on 100% chance anymore.

 

New stun mechanics: 

- all player, normal mobs and bosses have "stun resistance" stats, player can increase resistance through card collection, rune or title like they do on crits formulae. Tanker class should have high stun resistance. Ymir form grants a tanker stun immunity

- player could increase stun % success rate as well with card collection etc. Dps class should have higher stun success rate. Ymir form will make stun skill proc absolutely.

 

Therefore, we can resolve permanent stun problems and avoid the bored and static stuns mechanics which disrupt pvp. We also do not need to worry player with high % shock runes because stun can be often but not permanent. 

[100000279723576]

sure Tanker should have High Defense but low damage but that doesnt mean they will spend they're time playing this game for PVE Only im sure the others want to taste PVP too, and not changing or creating another character just to pvp, why not both e? But yeah everyone wants to change BT  we dont really mind that but not only knight will get change but warrior also, Like isaid even if pre-AOV, aov Warrior didnt change a THING nor add. let say it put the changes in to mild?

 

And here's more not only Knights/war can do this thingy's hahaha Even Sin 10/10 grim = 10peopls = crit = dead 10ppls NOT TO MENTION This is only An AOE skill im not qq-ing its just unbelivable haha I have 56K defense with buffs ofcourse all over , Still 1hit grimtooth/impact and im like wtf? ))))

 

If you;re going to talk about aoe's battle leap take time and measure to hit the opponent

and last atleast, it's none of the players fault that GOT OP I guess its the BS, and bind runes

Edited by 100000279723576, 06 March 2015 - 11:03 PM.

[MingMei]

sure Tanker should have High Defense but low damage but that doesnt mean they will spend they're time playing this game for PVE Only im sure the others want to taste PVP too, and not changing or creating another character just to pvp, why not both e? But yeah everyone wants to change BT  we dont really mind that but not only knight will get change but warrior also, Like isaid even if pre-AOV, aov Warrior didnt change a THING nor add. let say it put the changes in to mild?

 

And here's more not only Knights/war can do this thingy's hahaha Even Sin 10/10 grim = 10peopls = crit = dead 10ppls NOT TO MENTION This is only An AOE skill im not qq-ing its just unbelivable haha I have 56K defense with buffs ofcourse all over , Still 1hit grimtooth/impact and im like wtf? ))))

 

If you;re going to talk about aoe's battle leap take time and measure to hit the opponent

and last atleast, it's none of the players fault that GOT OP I guess its the BS, and bind runes

 

There is no such thing as a tank in PVP 

and thats a bad thing

Gravity needs to scale back on the damage and it goes for all the class

BT, Fireball, Ximpact, etc,,,

[HokaHoka]

Will there be a new report thread weekly, or is it  the info in page 1 that is updated?

[Telovi]

• [Moderate] Master Battle Manual Order (MBMO) name is confusing because it has two versions (24 hour and 30 minute), but the description doesn’t always specify how long it lasts. It has been suggested that the 30 minute item’s name be changed to “Expert Battle Manual Order” along with a new icon to avoid confusion. We would like the community’s input on this name change.

 

"Expert Battle Manual Order" sounds great and a new icon associated with it won't kill.

 

 

There is no such thing as a tank in PVP 

and thats a bad thing

 

Yes there is such thing as tanking job in PVP, group wise. Ever watched a game or read the rules of American football? Our group PVP is akin to American football with the offensive and defensive all happen at the same time. Tankers are linemen; DPSes are linebreakers ; healers are quarterbacks and my point is healers always stand behind tankers whenever they find themselves in a group PVP, because they could use some tanking, thus tanker exist in PVP scenario.  

[MingMei]

"Expert Battle Manual Order" sounds great and a new icon associated with it won't kill.

 

 

 

Yes there is such thing as tanking job in PVP, group wise. Ever watched a game or read the rules of American football? Our group PVP is akin to American football with the offensive and defensive all happen at the same time. Tankers are linemen; DPSes are linebreakers ; healers are quarterbacks and my point is healers always stand behind tankers whenever they find themselves in a group PVP, because they could use some tanking, thus tanker exist in PVP scenario.  

 

i think we play the same game where anyone could be 1-shotted 

i refuse to call anyone tank if they could be killed from 100 to 0 in one shot 

 

 

if you analyze the structure of football instead of the roles youll see why we dont have tanks in PVP 

football flow of the game is like this

side 1 --> <---side 2

in ro2 such situation only exist in jehoon  

there is no rules nothing to stop people from attacking from behind 

plus there are mechanics that promote such play aka hide

enemy DPS could be right beside your healers before the battle start 

[ilvan]

Please nerf hide class' attack. Its really unfair for us priests and soulmakers whenever we enter WOE map,those hide class (especially assassins) will just one hit us and then run and laugh their ass out loud. There should not be anyone who can one hit anyone. Regardless of their equipment, too OP or not, they shouldn't be able to one hit any class. Please developers, re-consider those skills of hide class they are so unfair for us.

[Telovi]

i think we play the same game where anyone could be 1-shotted 

i refuse to call anyone tank if they could be killed from 100 to 0 in one shot 

 

 

if you analyze the structure of football instead of the roles youll see why we dont have tanks in PVP 

football flow of the game is like this

side 1 --> <---side 2

in ro2 such situation only exist in jehoon  

there is no rules nothing to stop people from attacking from behind 

plus there are mechanics that promote such play aka hide

enemy DPS could be right beside your healers before the battle start 

 

Okay, now it is about tankers doing a lousy tanking job. I thought you were talking about tankers getting more muscles, did I get it wrong? 

 

The positions aren't fixated, obviously, since everybody is in constant movement, and nothing is stopping the other group from altering its direction, either, if it finds out a group is approaching from behind. Any PVP-seasoned healers will expects invisible classes to jump on them whenever they are walking in a PVP free zone, because that's within their opponent's nature of class and role, plus lack of an official presence to signal the start of the game. 

[HokaHoka]

Please nerf hide class' attack. Its really unfair for us priests and soulmakers whenever we enter WOE map,those hide class (especially assassins) will just one hit us and then run and laugh their ass out loud. There should not be anyone who can one hit anyone. Regardless of their equipment, too OP or not, they shouldn't be able to one hit any class. Please developers, re-consider those skills of hide class they are so unfair for us.

 

It's their nature to be stealthy. Some of their skills are OP, too.... To make this more beneficial, report it in the Assassins and/or Rogues forums. Good luck!

 

e.g.:

http://forums.warppo...view=getnewpost

[MingMei]

 

Okay, now it is about tankers doing a lousy tanking job. I thought you were talking about tankers getting more muscles, did I get it wrong? 

 

The positions aren't fixated, obviously, since everybody is in constant movement, and nothing is stopping the other group from altering its direction, either, if it finds out a group is approaching from behind. Any PVP-seasoned healers will expects invisible classes to jump on them whenever they are walking in a PVP free zone, because that's within their opponent's nature of class and role, plus lack of an official presence to signal the start of the game. 

 

 

See you know why american football is a bad analogy for the PVP

Positions arent fixated. Just because you have people up front doesnt mean they cant go on the back line 

or from the side and there is nothing any tank could do to protect the healer once a sin gets to him 

 

 

Not lousy tanking job

aside from lack of mechanic that prevents them to do their job(no taunts/open field)

its just impossible regardless of gears to take crits from war/knights

im not talking about tankers getting more muscle

i just mention gravity needs to tone done on the 1-shot 

 

before we could say there is a tank in game

Do we know anyone capable of surviving 1 shot from geared war/knight

tanks are defined differently from different games

but i think anyone would agree that no tank could be drop from 100-0 in 1 shot 

if you would accept someone that cant do it as a tank

then anyone is a tank 

[Telovi]

See you know why american football is a bad analogy for the PVP

Positions arent fixated. Just because you have people up front doesnt mean they cant go on the back line 

or from the side and there is nothing any tank could do to protect the healer once a sin gets to him 

 

 

Not lousy tanking job

aside from lack of mechanic that prevents them to do their job(no taunts/open field)

its just impossible regardless of gears to take crits from war/knights

im not talking about tankers getting more muscle

i just mention gravity needs to tone done on the 1-shot 

 

before we could say there is a tank in game

Do we know anyone capable of surviving 1 shot from geared war/knight

tanks are defined differently from different games

but i think anyone would agree that no tank could be drop from 100-0 in 1 shot 

if you would accept someone that cant do it as a tank

then anyone is a tank 

 

 

Teamwork is an entirely subjective topic.