32 replies to this topic

[1163130726160243470]

With so many alts and so many people without pets, it seems the drop rate on DNA with the change to the leveled drop system has effectively broken gameplay for those that want to acutally work on their characters. Will this problem be adressed?

[TbatmanT]

i heard that developers dont read forum. 

[Farb]

maybe developers read what moderators inform them? 

[Telovi]

Volunteers are not moderators. They don't have power to moderate forum posts nor responsibility to post only when needed. It's one thing to alert the devs about your complaints, and another thing for them to do anything about it . Another another thing for them to do exactly what you wanted. This game is an intellectual property of Gravity and the final said is always belong to them.

[damond16]

i think thats one of the biggest problem in ro2, lack of info, and no answer from moderators, just an example im walking and just die and i lost a lot of mp, but still they havent fix it because the need a video, if they a need video i think they should play the game

[Shinyusuke]

i think thats one of the biggest problem in ro2, lack of info, and no answer from moderators, just an example im walking and just die and i lost a lot of mp, but still they havent fix it because the need a video, if they a need video i think they should play the game

What are you talking about? only little useless software houses like ubisoft, eidos, easport, lucasdigital, naughtydog, betesda play their own game.

[HokaHoka]

What are you talking about? only little useless software houses like ubisoft, eidos, easport, lucasdigital, naughtydog, betesda play their own game.

 

*sniff* smells like sarcasm! 

[Njoror]

Are you thinking of ways to introduce DNA in the game aside from increasing the drop rate?

 

DNA Boxes for certain currencies or other drops?

 

We can come up with some ideas and see how they float with Gravity.

[Shinyusuke]

Are you thinking of ways to introduce DNA in the game aside from increasing the drop rate?

DNA Boxes for certain currencies or other drops?

We can come up with some ideas and see how they float with Gravity.

It's not a matter of alternative ways but a matter of fixing the actual system. DNA boxes are good for players that want have shortcuts using real money, instead DNA farming is good for "poor" players unfortunately you introduced the famous drop nerf that affect only "poor players and not the "rich" ones that instead gained also a special DNA box for rare DNAs! If the DNA farming is a problem just focus on wich ones are farmed (willow worker, vador, mermaid) and nerf their power according with the level of the monsters that drop their DNA and introduce new higher level monster's pets that have the same power of the nerfed ones but harder to farm. A possibility can be:
Willow worker-->Skull mage in DWU
Mermaid-->the tigers in fp
Vador--spiders in DWL
Same system can be used for cards.

[damond16]

What are you talking about? only little useless software houses like ubisoft, eidos, easport, lucasdigital, naughtydog, betesda play their own game.

 

so tell me where i can find info about drop rate, if you are not going to answer the question then just stay quiet

[Shinyusuke]

so tell me where i can find info about drop rate, if you are not going to answer the question then just stay quiet

Drop rate is about 10% unless you are affected by the drop nerf in that case it can go down to 2%.
If you are in a good party (no thief) you have to divide them % by the number of party members 2-10. I hope this will answer your question since you asked so nicely and respected my rights to share my opinions.

[damond16]

Drop rate is about 10% unless you are affected by the drop nerf in that case it can go down to 2%.
If you are in a good party (no thief) you have to divide them % by the number of party members 2-10. I hope this will answer your question since you asked so nicely and respected my rights to share my opinions.

 

thanks for your answer and sorry for my rudeness, but what i really was asking for is for you to tell me the amount drop rate, i want to know where i can find all the info regarding drop rates, exp table, my point is that we dont have acces to that info, thanks again

[Shinyusuke]

there are several RO2 wiki on the net but no one has the drop charts since most of the time they changes each publisher

[Lexarte]

Are you thinking of ways to introduce DNA in the game aside from increasing the drop rate?

 

DNA Boxes for certain currencies or other drops?

 

We can come up with some ideas and see how they float with Gravity.

Why not to rebuild pet system??? It`s nearly need 5-6 stacks dna to get 4 lvl`s pet. Don`t forget that some players from SEA dupped dna and make unique pets 4 lvl.

Leave dna for making pets and then let the players pay their experience for leveling pets(like master lvl), or they can use dna, that give expirience. Make a kafra items that can lvl up pet for 1,5,10 and 50 lvls. Increase their lvl. Add more pets. Give the player control on their pet like follow, stay in place, auto attack with the person and others, Make an permanent call of the pet(remove 30 seconds). Add Health bar for it, so any monster would have a chance for killing it. Add equipment for pets. Make them dyeable. Add Kafra decoration accessory and others items >.>.  Let pet increase heigth with the level.

So, in the future, you can get 50 lvl pet O_O

I know that is nearly impossible to make all those what i have point upper and It would be great if you just make leveling pet for the character expirience(like master lvl) and leave dna only for getting the pet.

[Lexarte]

You would never get this legal way. Garbong respawn is 4-5 mins. There is only one on the Channel. Max 9 on the server. One of 50-100 mobs would drop dna. 5-6 stack or ~1400 pieces for 4 lvl, so you would  need to kill about  7000-14000 mobs O_o. And don`t forget about the time. Let`s see, you will need near 1 minute  for clearing one channel(30-60 seconds for changing the channel) so 7000-14000 minutes or 5-10 days of pure game play where you are switching the channels and kill only one mob(7000 mins ~ 117 hours ~ 5 days). If you would try to get a 4 lvl pb, like rsx, you would need 58 days(1400 hours) ~ or pure killing rsx - 1 dna drops in an hour. Willow worker is on the same way. Wait. Is this character one plays on the server? I don`t think so. Others would want too to make a first lvl pet and it would be near impossible for you to make a 4 lvl pet >.>

 

[Greven79]

I made a little test with my ML30 character with VIP + Pron-buff:

 

10min Mermaid farming:

7 Mermaid DNA

 

And I waited most of the time... I neither farmed in a larger area, nor did I change channel.

 

A single run in Temple of the Sea God NORMAL:

• 2 Mermaid DNA (not on the image, stacked with the other ones)
• 2 Strouf DNA
• 2 Obeaune DNA
• 1 Swordfish DNA
• 1 Phen DNA
• 1 Marinesphere DNA

• 2 Obeaune Cards
• 1 Mermaid Fanatic Card
• 1 Marinesphere Card
• 1 Swordfish Card

• Mace
• Handle
• Knuckles
• Sorcerer Hat
• Rogue Top
• Ranger Pants

Spoiler

 

This took me less than 10min.

__________________________________________________________________

 

I did a test in CoA as well, completing the "Letter to Kremp" quest as an ML30 char with only the VIP buff.

I used Ymir+Wind Pot to get to Aromine, spared her, but killed everything around her.

Thereafter, I cleared my way to Ratmaster.

 

Spoiler

 

I found; 1 Toad, 1 Megalodon and 1 Kuroring DNA

 

This took longer than 10min, But this was mainly due to the Ratmaster fight.

__________________________________________________________________

 

So let's do some calculations:

7 mermaid DNAs per 10min would mean about 42 mermaid DNAs per hour.

You shouldn't need much more than 1600 DNA fragments to get a lvl4 pet.

(1312 is the perfect minimum, my average is 1574 btw.).

 

So let's be cautious and say it takes ~40h to get a lvl4 mermaid..

A lvl3 mermaid would then take less than 16h instead.

 

So the questions I'd like to know are:

• How much time are you willing to invest in a lvl4 pet?
• Or how many DNA fragments would you like to get per hour?
• And how much time should it take to get the min. cooldown?
• Would you farm lvl4 pets, if they wouldn't deal 12k per second?

 

The last one is the most interesting:

For me, it's always quite suspicious, if players complain about a system//mechanic that is currently broken. And it's done  without highlighting or addressing the part that makes it overpowered. So let's say, we would fix the following aspects first to ensure that players can't abuse pets as they do now:

• Make pet DoTs affected by defense rate
• Make pet cooldown unaffected by vigor (no more 2 or 3 simultaneous pets)
• Pet damage not longer based on PATK/MATK (either on skill effect or class level instead)
• Change Ignition and Electric Shock into a 2sec trigger, just like all the other pet DoTs
• Let pets generate less threat to avoid "weak tank" issues

Now, once we fixed the system, we could surely alter the pet system to reduce the amount of time new players (or alts) need to be competitive. Wouldn't this be the better way?

__________________________________________________________________

 

Are you thinking of ways to introduce DNA in the game aside from increasing the drop rate?

 

DNA Boxes for certain currencies or other drops?

 

We can come up with some ideas and see how they float with Gravity.

 

The more important question is: How do players want the pet system to be?

 

My lvl4 Poring I farmed from Happy Hour events deals ~3.5k damage with it's base attack, whereas I deal ~2k damage.

With it's special attack, it deals like 5k damage, whereas I deal ~2k damage with a Double Attack.

 

So should it be possible that pets triple the own damage output easily? Is it surprising that players want lvl4 pets for every alt chars to compete with other players who have it? And is there any hope for a class balance, if a Soulmaker, Crecentia or Priests can combine 3 damage pets (mermaids, imps and Executers) for ~25k+ damage per second just from pets alone? Or is it irrelevant because it's only PvE not PvP?

 

In my opinion, this discussion isn't about the pet count, it's about how hard it is to achieve the 4th level. That's why the complain is about drop chances, not about more DNA boxes... The boxes are simply too random.

 

But still, there are enogh ideas:

 

Suggestion 1: Let's remove the 4th pet level

 

This would solve multiple issues in one go. It would limit the effectiveness of pets in general, would only affect those players negatively, who would already farmed/botted/hacked lvl4 pets, but most importantly, it would almost halve the amount of DNA fragments needed to max a single pet (129 strains instead of 228). And the last part would significantly lower the amount of "work" needed for alts.

 

Suggestion 2: DNA fragments // strains as reward for Monster Buster quests:

 

Spoiler

 

This is more an alternative to random DNA boxes to get the minimum pet cooldown. These quests are currently quite useless. XP is the only reward. But they could also give you zeny,, additional DNA fragments or even complete strains. They are perfect candidates, because they concentrate on a specific monster type. And to kill 33 different poporings is surely quite a time-consuming task to allow for a special reward  (Just make sure the scrolls vanish from your inventory).

Edited by Greven79, 06 April 2015 - 07:25 AM.

[Lexarte]

I think that the game wouldn`t stay without updates. Pet system has been added before Morroc update, and for that time it was cool.

But now, it would be best if we get something to do on the last level`s. Why not it should be a 50 lvl pet that you are buying on your own experience( You would still need kafra items like Vip, bless and exp boost items). And if there is not only one pet, that can be hitted to 50 lvl?

 

 

This is more an alternative to random DNA boxes to get the minimum pet cooldown. These quests are currently quite useless. XP is the only reward. But they could also give you zeny,, additional DNA fragments or even complete strains. They are perfect candidates, because they concentrate on a specific monster type. And to kill 33 different poporings is surely quite a time-consuming task to allow for a special reward  (Just make sure the scrolls vanish from your inventory).

 

 That quest`s works only on your lvl and with such rates you would exp faster that you complete two of them. What about those who have achieved 35 master lvl? Should they make a alts and exp them?

 

 

 

My suggestion is to redefine pet lvl system. You would still need a dna to make a pet and in other way you will lvl it - paying your exp for pet`s lvl.

 

 

 

 

P.S.

You will need ~27 hours to make a 4 lvl mermaid. I have made it without Norns blessing. If you have it, you would need much lesser time.

[szk2]

@Greven79 I think to do all of your suggestion are way too much for an overhaul. Furthermore pet cannot be used on important event like WoE and Colo.

 

Pet Damage

Out of all of the problem you mentioned with pet system, pet broken part actually is DoT pet because the DoT bypass mob defense. If you analyze all of map updated by gravity since AoV, the developer were trying to add mob defense. Thus we could see that physical attack pet aside from have no movement decrease debuff, also have low damage. For example, Forgotten Payon map introduce highest mob defense among all of map released so far. Vador level 4 that could deal 75k on level 1-50 mobs currently deal only 10k damage on Forgotten Payon mobs. That is what developer way of decreasing pet OP. In other words, physical attack pet currently are scaled down correctly with player skill damage which also affected by mob defense. Note that, the critical damage of physical attack pet is also nerfed by 50%. On vador level 4, the crit damage is 13-17k damage only as the normal attack is 10k. The player skill damage is also in that range where I test on Forgotten Payon map during leveling to 35 cap.

 

However, the broken part of pet system currently is DoT pet. I further test mermaid pet too. Aside from the insane damage, the pet has movement speed decrease by 40% debuff apply. My crescentia Earth Worm skill decrease 70% movement speed and it stack with mermaid debuff which total to 110% speed decrease. The mob is completely stop for 10 second. LOL. For the damage I test, the DoT damage from mermaid is 7k per second. Let say it ticks for 5 tick for 5 second (electrick shock debuff is renewed every 5 second interval), so total damage is 35k damage for every 5 second!!. Compare to Vador level 4 only deal 10k damage over 5 second!! It's 3.5 higher than Vador pet!! (Note that I exclude normal attack calculation for both pet which deal same regular attack for every 2 second).

 

So mermaid which is 3 star pet with 40% movement speed debuff that deal 3.5 times higher than Vador, a boss pet 4 star!! so strange and illogical. And for FP grind party, I could see party use 2 DoT pet on Eddga Junior spot, which made the fastest kill I could ever see on FP map.

 

(Note that Osiris tomn and Dark Whisper map also introduce mob defense)

 

Vigor that affect Pet Cooldown

The other concerns that you had address is player could summon 2 or 3 pet at a time. I believe that developer had revamp on this matter by making vigor a hard stat to get. The change could be seen in the new Eddga set which decrease has very little vigor. Only few classes such as Soul Maker has high vigor that could aid the class to do some damage on party as the class is not a DPS class. DPS class such as Crecentia, the vigor stat has been scaled down completely as compare to Cazar series. If a low vigor class try to achieved more vigor, then the class need to sacrifice a lot of primary stat (STR/INT/AGI/VIT) and the overall damage is scaled down too. That is a fair balance.

 

TL;DR.: the only problem with pet is DoT pet damage 3.5 time higher than other pet, not the whole pet system.

Edited by szk2, 06 April 2015 - 02:56 PM.

[Greven79]

I made another test about the "broken gameplay" part... I took my ML31 character with only the Pron-buff and raised my pet count the good old way.

 

Starting with 46 pets at 11:30

 

Spoiler

 

Ending up with 71 pets at 17:30.

 

Spoiler

 

In total +25 pets in 6 hours. The maps cleared were Maple Forest, Divided Plains and Verta Delta. In my opinion, it's far away from being "broken". It's acually quite fine, a lot of fun and probably still faster than doing it at level 35~45. I could one-shot any target, but I couldn't mob them, because they were too spreaded. So I spent most of my time running to the loot. Getting ~25 DNA fragments per hour is still pretty good though.

 

So my assumption is that I can reach min. pet cooldown in +4 hours and I guess it takes ~15h in total. At least for me, it doesn't have to get much faster. But I wouldn't mind, if it would be buyable via Union Points (maybe 30~50pts per box).

Edited by Greven79, 06 April 2015 - 03:48 PM.

[szk2]

May I know if my points are valid?(from VCR point of view) I test them on my own during FP grind. DoT pet does not scale correctly and is clearly a game braking feature.

 

If no please state the reasons.

 

A couple of same complain has been post since last 2 month I wonder if they ever reach developer's desk. I hope vcr can at least forward them regardless personal interest.

 

Thank you.

[ch3n]

I leveled my mermaid to 4 on the open field back then when there was cakes and stock thief potions from the previous attendance. I have no VIP and the new drop rate is in effect. Took me around 9-10 days with 8-10 hours of work. For every hour i get around 40-55 pieces of fragment and for 1 stack (240-255) of fragments I get around 45-60 DNA. It's as a boring as grinding and when I tested my mermaid it has almost the same damage as when its level 1.

Collecting pets to lower down the pet cool down is much easier. For 8-10 hours you can get around 40-55 pets (collecting 10-12 DNA fragments for each monster starting from poring). It is still boring but the scenery changes.

And that's what happens when you don't use DNA boxes.

[Telovi]

Pet system has been added before Morroc update, and for that time it was cool.

 

Post-AoV native detected.

[Shinyusuke]

Post-AoV native detected.

It's not so wrong what he said at that time we all had way lower p-attack and m-attack, the stronger pets were also the harder to get (except mermaid), we had pets in colo this is true but they fixed it. Post AoV our power increased a lot an our defence too so we started to notice how the dot pet ignore it, we didn't have new pets that could replace the old strong ones and wasn't introduced a limit in the pets power that come from low level monsters when the level cap increased.

[Telovi]

Neither of us was talking about what you just wrote.  

 

 

the stronger pets were also the harder to get (except mermaid)

 

 

 

Also for some reason the Devil Ant things in Mjolnir drop Researcher DNA. It's a fast farm for a pet that seems to do extreme physical damage.

 

[Lexarte]

 

I made another test about the "broken gameplay" part... I took my ML31 character with only the Pron-buff and raised my pet count the good old way.

 

Starting with 46 pets at 11:30

 

Spoiler

 

Ending up with 71 pets at 17:30.

 

Spoiler

 

In total +25 pets in 6 hours. The maps cleared were Maple Forest, Divided Plains and Verta Delta. In my opinion, it's far away from being "broken". It's acually quite fine, a lot of fun and probably still faster than doing it at level 35~45. I could one-shot any target, but I couldn't mob them, because they were too spreaded. So I spent most of my time running to the loot. Getting ~25 DNA fragments per hour is still pretty good though.

 

So my assumption is that I can reach min. pet cooldown in +4 hours and I guess it takes ~15h in total. At least for me, it doesn't have to get much faster. But I wouldn't mind, if it would be buyable via Union Points (maybe 30~50pts per box).

 

 

 

 

Can you make another test??

How much time would you need to get maya purple pet?  

 

Edited by Lexarte, 08 April 2015 - 10:06 AM.