28 replies to this topic

[BloodyHalo]

I was recently asked to explain the difference between commanders and berserkers to a new player since they are both melee so I hope this gives you the basic idea.  I will use the average player so not including +30 8/8 gear or skills.  I was bored, so I probably included more info than you wanted!

 

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(Anti - Stun)

 

Commander -  Adamant Mind

Beserker - Berserker's Savagery

Beserker - Counter Attack

 

(Stuns)

Commander - Shield Strike (Would count face strike but that doesn't really work against anything physical, and it likes to miss 90% of the time)

Berserker - Burning Dash

Berserker - Skull Crusher

Berserker - Terror

Berserker - Charge

 

 

(Slows)

 

Commander - Chain of Restraint

Berserker - Shackle

 

 

 

Quick Rundown:

 

- Commander has a rush but it doesn't have a stun so unless the target it stand still it works slightly goofily.

- Commander's Beam Slash.  More for show then actual practical use, and most people don't level it past 4 or so.  Our only pew pew.  Or I guess Pew.

- Commander has uplifting cry, which boosts speed for the party.

- Commander has taunt which helps in sin battles but nowhere really else.

- Commander has pretty animations.

- Commanders have more block potential than Berserkers.

 

- Berserker has def down buff.

- Berserker has a heal.

- Berserker has some attk power buffs.

- Berserker has roughly 20-30khp more than the average commander.

- Berserker has an ignore defense skill.

- Berserker has the capability of stun-locking you.

- Berserker has MUCH more damage than a commander.

- Berserker has blood rage (Kind of a leech) to recover a bit of hp -Credits to Vulcano-

 

 

FOR weapons:

 

Commander -  really is just limited to either sword + shield or axe + shield.  If you use anything else atm you will be unfortunately laughed at.  You can pve with a 2h sword but that is really just for kicks and giggs (cannot equip duals).

 

Berserker - Can use duals, sword + shield, 2h weapons normally.  I've heard a lot of controversy over which one is the best so I won't get into that here because I honestly don't know/care.

 

 

So as you can see Commander is basically the little brother of a Berserker.  Commanders have a lot of the same skills but less of the skills that really make a difference in a fight.  Commanders also have a lot more aoe attk's but usually they are not capped thanks to their mediocre dmg.  Commanders have more def but then Berserkers have Shout of ferocious tiger which lowers def.  Only benefit you have going commander is that your skills look pretty flashy, otherwise until further patches or at least a word from Helium/Alteris on class updates I would veer towards Berserker.  

 

I'd like to say in a mage fight I would choose commander but quite honestly if the face strike misses your SOL (against the heavier hitters ofc).  If you miss an attack with Berserker you still have many other weapons in your cache to choose from.  Or you could just fear them and watch them poop on themselves while you heal/laugh/take a break.

 

Fight (exaggerated for the most part):

 

- Both activate buffs, Berserker leads with rush stun but misses thanks to AM

- Commander uses shield strike and stuns Zerk.

- Commander gets a few good hits in with Moonlight and Boomerang.

- Zerk is mobile and activates reflect.

- Commander damages himself and starts to AutoAttack.

- Zerk activates Savagery and evades another shield strike.

- Zerk continues to whittle down Commie health until AM runs out.

- Zerk uses fear, then follows with a series of stuns.

 

So in today's "Deadliest Melee".  Winner... 

 

 

 

However, Commanders are in no way terrible, but they are kind of mid tier as far as class strengths go.  Against casters you will usually whoop some butt unless you miss your skills (Again, not considering any maxed gear) however against other melee it will be a more interesting fight.

I was going to include Assassins, but even though they are melee, they have an entirely different fighting style.  Maybe next time.

 

P.S. If I missed any key skills please feel free to add them.  I don't main Berserker so I won't pretend to know them 100%.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 28 March 2015 - 01:04 AM.

[Sandyman]

Well the main different is the Race. 

 

And so is the Possession Beast.

 

The Rufus has to wait till 60 for his first Range Attack 

 

Carlos becomes 30m Range at lvl 20

 

this is important for the FoC Brackets.

 

Lets look at the Race Differences a bit closer...

 

The Turan Focus on Defense and Healing

 

a Protector is supposed to defend against Mele 

 

the Commander against Caster

 

The Bartuk Race is more Offensive

 

The Warlord fights VS Caster 

 

The Berserker against Mele

 

So back to your Question i would say a Commander has much more Defense Potential thanks to his Shield

 

and he has the advantage against Caster (Hush) The Berserker has the Offensive Damage Advantage 

 

So its offensive VS more Defensive.

 

So the Main Question for me is about the Play style...and which Role you see for yourself at the Battlefield and for your Party.

 

 

Edited by Sandyman, 21 March 2015 - 04:24 AM.

[BloodyHalo]

Well the main different is the Race. 

 

And so is the Possession Beast.

 

The Rufus has to wait till 60 for his first Range Attack 

 

Carlos becomes 30m Range at lvl 20

 

this is important for the FoC Brackets.

 

Lets look at the Race Differences a bit closer...

 

The Turan Focus on Defense and Healing

 

a Protector is supposed to defend against Mele 

 

the Commander against Caster

 

The Bartuk Race is more Offensive

 

The Warlord fights VS Caster 

 

The Berserker against Mele

 

So back to your Question i would say a Commander has much more Defense Potential thanks to his Shield

 

and he has the advantage against Caster (Hush) The Berserker has the Offensive Damage Advantage 

 

So its offensive VS more Defensive.

 

So the Main Question for me is about the Play style...and which Role you see for yourself at the Battlefield and for your Party.

 

Thank you for posting about PB as I was not including them.  Everything else is pretty much correct and I think as a race Turan melee have the better adavantage but it is in the skills where they fall short (I don't even buff half of the time before a fight).  

 

In melee vs caster I concluded that though fear wont allow a Zerk to hit while it is stunned, it will allow time for other stuns and skills to cooldown and that + Zerk damage pretty much equals a win in most situations.  

 

- Commanders were intended to be the offense melee choice for turan but the design is a bit off.  Good concept bad execution.

 

- But if you are the rush in kill something rush somewhere kill something else, pretty much own anything 1v1 you will be very happy with a Berserker.

[jebac098]

Well Bloody lets see...
You didnt say is it aa or ss zerk maybe you will ask why,np here we go:)

AA:
Def sux cuz of reckles(speed buff)
Slow skill is broken for now(shackle)
Sure he can use duals or axe but...dual give you more cad and les dmg,axe give you more dmg les cad i play aa zerk for some time and can say to you its the same i test it max dmg you can get depens on skill build its the same.
Heal for aa zerk sux guess you know why(if not will answer you )


SS:
Can get more hp and def but the dmg will be good(aa need to mix jewels str/con for good dmg)
Heals ofc op its ss


But yeah counter is op skill

Tip for you:)
When zerk use counter use your speed buff and run around him in distance and be sure am is on so he cant charge

Anyway zerk have like what 10 sec to stun lock you and terror before you put am on

Sry for broken english heheheh

[Vulcano]

dont forget blood rage

[jebac098]

dont forget blood rage

Good for ss on aa sux cuz you will not crit that much

[VModBlueberry]

Looking forward to read more about it pretty interesting and helpful mostly because I never really played melee.

Please do other classes as well~

Edited by VModBlueberry, 21 March 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[Apollonia93]

Looking forward to read more about it pretty interesting and helpful mostly because I never really played melee.

Please do other classes as well~

why?

so helium and alteris can ignore it and do whatever comes into their silly little heads?

heliums brilliant crap made zerks OP as hell.

why the hell is that blood skill bypassing all block and defense?

anyways

commies are crap at this point when casters can do 2.7k on cap with aoes.

best you can do is 1v1 vs casters and rangers, because sins and zerks eat commies,

[crkiller]

Well Bloody lets see...
You didnt say is it aa or ss zerk maybe you will ask why,np here we go:)

AA:
Def sux cuz of reckles(speed buff)
Slow skill is broken for now(shackle)
Sure he can use duals or axe but...dual give you more cad and les dmg,axe give you more dmg les cad i play aa zerk for some time and can say to you its the same i test it max dmg you can get depens on skill build its the same.
Heal for aa zerk sux guess you know why(if not will answer you )


SS:
Can get more hp and def but the dmg will be good(aa need to mix jewels str/con for good dmg)
Heals ofc op its ss


But yeah counter is op skill

Tip for you:)
When zerk use counter use your speed buff and run around him in distance and be sure am is on so he cant charge

Anyway zerk have like what 10 sec to stun lock you and terror before you put am on

Sry for broken english heheheh

 

i know zerks with cap defense using reckless. doing 3.2k dmg in cap [ AA ]

[jebac098]

i know zerks with cap defense using reckless. doing 3.2k dmg in cap [ AA ]

Yeah its posible whit doll

That dmg is crazy lol...Name it pl

[BloodyHalo]

SS:
Can get more hp and def but the dmg will be good(aa need to mix jewels str/con for good dmg)
Heals ofc op its ss


But yeah counter is op skill

Tip for you:)
When zerk use counter use your speed buff and run around him in distance and be sure am is on so he cant charge

Anyway zerk have like what 10 sec to stun lock you and terror before you put am on

Sry for broken english heheheh

 

Your english is Fine!  Yes playing an AA zerk would kind of be like playing an AA commie.   It would work in some very specific occasions but is it worth the handicap (op'ness)?  Also AA for melee requires you to always be right next to/facing your enemy which with req controls can be a bit dodgy.  But as stated in some cases yea it has its perks. 

 

I have tried the running thing and though it is slightly helpful, but (that and counter last a very long while)  unfortunately it only takes a 1 second lag to mess up that strategy and then yes the stun lock and fear comes in.  Also it kind of makes us look like wimps running away from something but that is just the pride talking

dont forget blood rage

 

Thanks is fixed.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 21 March 2015 - 11:00 PM.

[BloodyHalo]

why?

so helium and alteris can ignore it and do whatever comes into their silly little heads?

heliums brilliant crap made zerks OP as hell.

why the hell is that blood skill bypassing all block and defense?

anyways

commies are crap at this point when casters can do 2.7k on cap with aoes.

best you can do is 1v1 vs casters and rangers, because sins and zerks eat commies,

 

 

I think this means I should do Sins vs Commie next?

 

Thanks all for whomever put in input/corrections!

 

Sure vBerry! (Also if any newer person has a specific two classes they'd like a matchup/question of post it or pm me.  Older players are welcome also but I figure you already know what is probably going to happen in a fight).

Edited by BloodyHalo, 21 March 2015 - 11:06 PM.

[Sandyman]

there is not much Point into a 1vs1 Comparison.

 

like this it will only work for the Offensive Classes but not for the Defender or Supportive ones.

 

Your not alone on the BF each Class has his Counterpart.

 

Avenger VS Totem Classes , The Rush forward Classes VS Stunner , Caster VS Hush`er...

 

etc. You can`t take 2 alone and say the Winner is "stronger" you have to see the full Picture with ALL Classes and Races 

 

on the Chess Board. 

 

Or your recommendations are improper. 

Edited by Sandyman, 22 March 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[Kazara]

Depends much on the situation also...you can t see the strongest in 1v1 with only a duel....but with many duels every 1-2 mins, so the cooldowns will worth something. (and ofc same gears, but there are always different builds, so u should try every build, in any situation etc...pretty hard to do).

[BloodyHalo]

there is not much Point into a 1vs1 Comparison.

 

like this it will only work for the Offensive Classes but not for the Defender or Supportive ones.

 

Your not alone on the BF each Class has his Counterpart.

 

Avenger VS Totem Classes , The Rush forward Classes VS Stunner , Caster VS Hush`er...

 

etc. You can`t take 2 alone and say the Winner is "stronger" you have to see the full Picture with ALL Classes and Races 

 

on the Chess Board. 

 

Or your recommendations are improper. 

 

Duels,  Ion Mine, PK, all are instances where 1v1 battles happen quite often.  There are rarely enough people playing to hardly call any situation "chess" even in battlefields, and while some classes have their counterparts, some have more counters than others.

 

That's why this was an answer to a question for Zerk/Commie, they did not ask about everything else.  If they had this would have been a much longer comparison post.

 

So in this case, for this post, it is most definitely just a 1v1 situation.  Just Zerk and Commie only this time.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 22 March 2015 - 04:00 AM.

[BloodyHalo]

Depends much on the situation also...you can t see the strongest in 1v1 with only a duel....but with many duels every 1-2 mins, so the cooldowns will worth something. (and ofc same gears, but there are always different builds, so u should try every build, in any situation etc...pretty hard to do).

 

I agree!  It would be very irresponsible of me to assume the outcome of ANY fight after witnessing only a single duel.

 

However, I have watched/played every class on req for 7 years now with many many fights, so it has definitely been more than one duel!  

 

 I took into account different gears/builds but did not go into detail about them.  I can, but that would take a LOT longer.  

 

For example a commander with high block QA maxed cc 100% with an axe would bypass the counter and would stand a much better chance when that counter skill is activated.  But also considering that the normal commander does NOT have 100% block/cc I chose not to include this build.

 

 

BUT if you would like me to make it official and make a program that factors in skills, average gear, class, average build, Gravity's intended use of class, average class death to life ratio in battlefields, then yea it would be a lot more accurate than just my opinion.  But that would also take me longer than an hour to do!  Statistical vs Opinionated...might try it now.

Edited by BloodyHalo, 22 March 2015 - 04:08 AM.

[Sandyman]

The basic idea to help new Player understanding the differences between each Class is very nice!

 

They need to know all about the Strengths and Weaknesses. 

 

Sadly thats not a Question about "Skill" or experience its about Cash Shop and which Class has the PvP Advantages.

 

If you compare em 1 to 1

 

So i`m just saying if you wanna make a Guide forget about who is stronger...

 

Take em single and try to describe how you can make em work at PvE and PvP

 

Like a starter Guide for each Race and Class...some 1 who likes to start a Dominator...

wants to know all about it and how to start...

 

But he surly don`t need to know who is stronger , its about to enjoy your Class and make em work.

 

Anyway good effort and Posts so far.

Edited by Sandyman, 22 March 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[Kazara]

I can make a domi guide, but would be useless, since they are going to change skills ^^

I ll make one after skill change maybe hehe

[BloodyHalo]

The basic idea to help new Player understanding the differences between each Class is very nice!

 

You want to know the Strength and Weaknesses. 

 

Sadly thats not a Question about "Skill" or experience its about Cash Shop and which Class has the PvP Advantages.

 

If you compare em 1to1

 

So i`m just saying if you wanna make a Guide forget about who is Stronger...

 

Take em single and look how you can make em work at PvE and PvP

 

Like a starter Guide for each Race and Class...If i love Dominators...well i want a Guide for em to get the best out of it for me

 

I don`t really want to know who is all stronger.

 

Anyway good effort and Posts so far.

 

 

Noted.  I see what you're saying and agree.  The original question I was answering was who would win in a fight (zerk/commie) so I answered the best I could without going into a full class layout.  

But yes a full guide would be best if a person were seeking more solid info.  Again these are only my and my friends accumulated experiences.  Since pve didn't matter in a duel I left it out.  That opens up a whole new can of worms!

 

I can make a domi guide, but would be useless, since they are going to change skills ^^

I ll make one after skill change maybe hehe

 

I have not been asked about domi yet as they seem to be less popular.  What I have received the most controversy/questions on are:

 

Protector

Commander

Mystic (ofc)

Defiler

Assassin

Berserker

Elemental (ofc)

 

So I  will do a similar post to this one on those classes first and then move on to the less popular classes when I have time!  As I said above if anyone has useful extra info on any class they'd like me to include pm me!  I am somewhat friendly.

[Kazara]

Make the already skill changed ones first, Elem, Mystic, Berserker etc... =)

 

[Skid]

Too bad 0 of new players are reading this,new population hype gone already.

[BloodyHalo]

Ok, deal Kaz.  And yes Skid I am aware but if it helps at least 1 newbie it was worth the time.  If not all you old nerds can just enjoy it

Edited by BloodyHalo, 22 March 2015 - 04:57 AM.

[ThreeTimes6]

I can make a domi guide, but would be useless, since they are going to change skills ^^

I ll make one after skill change maybe hehe

 

shhhhh - be quiete, don't tell them our "Holy Domi survive build"/playguide - remember, Bobdobs "Holy Domi resist build" is still legendary :-))

[Ninnghizhidda]

Overall a quite well written and all-rounded account / explanation.

 

The bottom line would be: these days (very sad days), the Commander class has become a joke or kinda joke. Once it was a "much feared" or even "hated" class and well geared Commanders would instill terror in many enemies / opponents hearts. Not any more.

 

These days, most caster classes will laugh their socks off, and now it looks like that most other melee / physical classes as well. Commanders have become good in nothing. Not that great in defensive (tanking?) game, much less good in offensive than they used to be. What exactly is their role? Maybe play the "pussy role" (sorry...), trying to pick up "easy targets". Well, meh, just about anyone could do that, and, personally, I find it pathetic, and certainly not very Commanding, don't you say.

 

Our skills are outdated, our damage capacity is now rather limited, the defense capabilities... why are they really better than anyone else (with cap def blah blah blah... you know the story). They even decided to FOOKUP the bloody quick attack.. really?

 

I remember the old times, I could take Zerks face to face, and I mean the ones with equally good gear (yap, sure, "mall hoed" ones too). Could even take them AAing without using skills, and please tell me that AA wasn't the really good thing zerks excelled in (and still do). I doubt any Commander has many chances against zerks these days (again, equally geared and "skilled").

 

No need at all to even consider stuff like going against sins and such. It was bad back then, I guess never mind now. And so on.

 

I won't say nothing about going against the Caster classes, we have talked about it before.

 

Really it all looks like, what once could be a quite good gaming experience with this class, is no more, not even remotely. Not that it had ever been easy, but at least there were instances and situations Commanders would shine and you could feel somewhat pleased, even .. "proud".

 

Good thing that I have thrown in my towel (along with several other reasons).

[Sandyman]

Commanders won`t stay like they are.

 

So lets wait and see, if they get a Comeback.