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Is resetting Great Khrepi legal after it is being killed by Another Group?


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#1 MightyMoo

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Posted 25 March 2015 - 11:54 PM

GM,

 

 

I just need to know if resetting Great Khrepi legal after it has been started by another group? 

 

There was a priest today trying to out threat me.  He tried real hard by using all sort of buff food because I kept checking his ID, At first was just regular buff then some buff food.  I did what a bear would do at this point i started to Tornado for more threat which succeeded. 

 

Anyway, I am submitting a ticket on this priest with a screen shot.  But I just need to know if this a legal act?

 

I mean, we have had a group steal from us before because provoke or dot doesn't considered to be first hit. Of course, we were upset, almost sent a ticket until we learned that provoke and dots are not first hit.  But now this is just gone to far.  

 

To reset a boss by provoking or getting higher threat from a party that already start the killings so that they can get the first hit is out of line and should be dealt with.

 

PS. A boss should never be soloable by any class at their same levels.


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#2 Saturn33

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 01:41 AM

I think it's not about legal or illegal or against the law/rule, it's all about morality:p_sad:


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#3 HokaHoka

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:21 AM

Just what kind of Priest are we talking about here??? 


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#4 9632130515120055620

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:27 AM

Says the person who taunt resets himself, wtfz.

 

And no this thread won't get looked at, mine got moved to bug reports because reasons. http://forums.warppo...voke-resetting/


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 26 March 2015 - 03:30 AM.

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#5 MightyMoo

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 05:50 AM

This is not a bug, so it should not be moved to bug forum.  I am asking if this is considered KSing? and KSing is illegal.


Edited by MightyMoo, 26 March 2015 - 05:52 AM.

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#6 donchan

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:28 AM

There are no rules in place for this game to prevent people from stealing bosses, so it is wrong to question if stealing bosses is "illegal" or not.  This is a morality issue, not a legal issue.  Unfortunately, the person you send a ticket on is not going to be punished, but at least it will raise awareness of the issue. 


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#7 magpi

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:06 PM

I brought the previous topic up to other VCRs and we all pretty much came up with the same answers of morality/ethics but got no official word on whether it is legal or not. I highly suggest you (and anyone else) who encounters this to send reports. There have been certain cases where players have taunted the party verbally after stealing the boss, and others have just sat there to reset it multiple times not to kill it but to just be to be jerks. Those situations are most definitely ill mannered and reportable.  

 

If you are unsure, definitely send a report so there is at least a paper trail of this type of behavior happening. The worst they can say is "its intended" but it doesn't hurt to be a squeaky wheel and keep trying. 

 

Sorry i couldn't clear more up on this issue >.< 


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#8 Saturn33

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 11:47 PM

jflqe.jpg

 

With the Forgotten Payon Bosses are being farmed like no tomorrow, people are almost fighting because of it.

Here I have a little suggestion to cope with it. Let's start:  :p_smile:

 

Changes:

- Forgotten Payon Bosses and field monster are no longer to drop Eddga Equipment.

- Eddga Equipment are only obtainable via Token exchange.

- Token exchanged Eddga Equipment are all restricted to 2 or 3 stars.

- Place all the Bosses and their troops in a "Mini Dungeon" instead of on the field map, or a few separated "Mini Dungeon" for each Boss and it's troops.

- (Examples of mini dungeon are Arrogance’s Vanaheim, Fury's Vanaheim, and Trauma).

- Of course the Mini Dungeon are a newly designed dungeon with a larger area.

- The Mini Dungeon can have capacity up to a raid of 20.

 

Boss Drop:

- Bosses will drop something exclusive --> [Eddga Equipment Star Enhancer].

- Bosses will drop coins for Eddga Equipment exchange as well.

- Certain drop rate or dungeon lockout may apply.

- Eddga will drop [Eddga Weapon Star Enhancer].

- Other Bosses will drop [Eddga Headgear Star Enhancer], [Eddga Shirt Star Enhancer], [Eddga Pants Star Enhancer], [Eddga Glove Star Enhancer], & [Eddga Shoe Star Enhancer] respectively.

 

New Item:

- [Eddga Equipment Star Enhancer] can only be apply on an un-hone Eddga Equipment with 2 or 3 stars.

- It cannot be apply on an un-hone Eddga Equipment with 4 or 5 stars.

- It cannot be apply on a honed Eddga Equipment.

- They have to be used on their corresponding Equipment parts, i.e. [Eddga Headgear Star Enhancer] for Eddga Headgear, [Eddga Shirt Star Enhancer] for Eddga Shirt and so on.

- After [Eddga Equipment Star Enhancer] is applied on an un-hone Eddga Equipment with 2 or 3 stars, you will get an un-hone Eddga Equipment with 4 or 5 stars randomly.

 

 

Some Notes:

* Personally I feel End Game Equipment should drop in dungeon instead of field map to avoid chaos like this.

* All Eddga Equipment are only obtainable via Token exchange, fair to everyone.

 

* And I feel Boss drop should not be class related, it's crippled, i.e. Boss A drop Equipment for Swordman class, Boss B drop Equipment for Thief class, and so on.

* Boss drop should be "Parts" related, i.e. Boss A drop Weapon for all classes, Boss B drop Headgear for all classes, and so on.

* So that all classes will have to hunt all bosses to get full set of equipment.

* It's not like Swordman class will only have to focus on hunting Boss A for equipment and don't bother with other Bosses, it's a crippled design.

* Different classes are designed to have their own's strong point to help each other.

 

* Imoogi case is one of the consequence of the class related Boss drop system, Noels have hard time to get equipment.

* If Imoogi drop let say a Glove, so all classes are pending for a Glove, at least it's still fair.

 

 

Final Words:

If the suggested system applied, you may lost some fun there, but I hope it's fair to everyone.  :p_smile:


Edited by Saturn33, 28 March 2015 - 05:30 AM.

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#9 Shinyusuke

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Posted 28 March 2015 - 12:17 AM

You will lost less fun than Players that ragequit i agree with your idea!!!
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#10 Rompe

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Posted 17 April 2015 - 09:13 PM

this happened before with Vador and other bosses


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#11 7843140731162112220

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Posted 18 April 2015 - 12:27 AM

From my experience, only kephri boss doesn't change his target, even after someone out threat the previous one. So no problem with great kephri if you already first hit him, except if you die it will change target.

 

Of course this mean for great kephri only, other boss in FP will change target to more high threat one.


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#12 Greven79

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 09:07 AM

Although I think Saturn33's idea is too complex, it's still remarkable to see how things evolve.

 

LotS:

it had a lot of dungeons! Some even had a ~3day lockout. Bosses were damn deadly and not soloable in a reasonable amount of time. Gear wasn't tradable and dungeons took 30~90min, but at least we had a 100% drop chance. So gear wasn't farmed, sold or used for RMT.

 

However, many players complained about the dungeon difficulty, many quit because they couldn't succeed and most players prefered Colo gear anyways. This PvP gear was better in all regards and you could enter Colo several times a day.

 

Final era of LotS:

Due to the new pet system, "class roles" vanished and soon everything except raids became soloable. Once you farmed a mermaid (bots, dupes & 3rd party drop chance increases aside), fights became much faster and thanks to Willow Worker, Assassin Elder & co., every class had access to powerful heals. Soon claases were purely determined by the pet level and this accumulated in a severe problem as soon as they were used in Colo. Back then, players complained more about Colo and not so much about an easier PvE content (I just wonder why).

 

LotS => AoV

The devs did everything players wanted! They first lowered the dungeon lockout and removed it completely later. In addition, they made the PvE content easier (by increasing the HP/Vit f.e.), limited the crit. chances and buffed those skills commonly used in Colo They even fixed the pet issues. And finally, all the gear became tradeable, as if the devs didn't know about this feature or wanted to make stock market tricks a common sub-game.

 

And this wasn't all: They introduced a new refinement system that allowed gear defense to be increased by a mere 270% and a new honing system with insane stat bonuses! Since that day, gear improvements define a class.

 

But they screwed a lot of things up.

So players complained about the hit/dodge formula, about the class changes (reasonable or not), that Dayr Desert gear wasn't good enough and about the worst thing imaginable: missing Osiris recipes (not about the missing difficulty btw.). So the devs adjusted the hit rates, overdid it some class fixes (see priest), implemented the recipes without fixing the dungeon and increased the overall effectiveness of post-AoV gear by adding seedrunes (and later elemental effects).

 

Since AoV, it's obvious that Battle Tactics is broken and it's been the time where many players rerolled to Warriors. But yet no complains. And back then, it seems that botting scarecrows for event rewards was perfecty "legit". Soon therafter we had many players with a complete +20 Osiris gear set. So this marks that day that having a fully-refined gear set became the norm.

 

And back then, "stolen" Pillarnium spots were a big concern.

 

DW, HC, AS & SC:

Here, the devs tried to fix the mess they've created. The MP costs were doubled and the dungeon wasmade  significantly harder than anything before. Nevertheless, the monsters didn't stand a chance against broken heals, pets, hones & +20 gear. The new strategy: "Mob + mass AoE" introduced with AoV worked perfectly and allowed "better" players to run AFK scripts. Some even "power-leveled" their own alt using their main.

 

And because this new group of "power" players with +20 gear could mob many monsters simultaneously, "stolen or taken grinding spots" became the most common complain.

 

But the devs had another problem:

They didn't improve the gear that much., Their honing & refinement system now turned against them and made players reluctant to change their gear. So they introduced even more events (and a refinement transfer stone). But this time, they tried to made the events more random and more limited. But once more, they underestimated the abusal affinity of their community. Soon, we had a bragging contest about how many HHB boxes a player could  farm.

____

 

In regard of the new gear, the devs tried it "the good old way". After some complains about "lame bosses being punching bags", they overdid it and some bosses became unbeatable whereas others were still soloable. And in another "good old way", broken things weren't reverted. but addressed by the next mistake: They introduced the WoE guild vault! Finally, players got the PvP rewards they were waiting for, right?

 

But they underestimated the CLS runes. More and more classes suddenly preferred the old Colo gear. The 60~70% PvP damage increase was simply better than anything else. And although most Assassins would never admit it, they enjoyed being kind of unkillable in Hide until they one-shotted the target. Or how does it come that so many players rerollled to Assassns... a class known to be broken? Looking for fair fights?

 

But Assassins weren't the only class. Knights - a class that was considered useless post-AoV - turned out to be OP as soon as you focus yourself on INT, a PvP damage bonus and Shield Boomerang. The devs haven't changed a thing since AoV. They just made honing more accessible & controllable.

 

And it's no surprise that "broken Colo", "missing PvP areas" and "one-shot mania" became the top issues.

 

Forgotten Payon:

In regard of gear drops, the devs continued their latest strategy: "Hard" bosses; powerful, tradeable gear and a low drop chance. This time however, they added a fallback mechanism or two (coin system & BP/MP-Cazar). But that was never intented as a honest option. And of course, things got messed up again: Runes that can be equipped in all accessories as well as soloable and exploitable PvE Bosses (loop or ignorable spirit)

 

But these were minor concerns anyway! Forgotton Payon is a complete failure in regard of PvE, but this update was never really centered around this. The real focus was purely on the player request for better PvP gear! Some just got bored using the old T2 gear for CLS runes... so why not overhaul the runes add CLS runes to the new gear?

 

This brings us to now:

We have many characters with +20 gear. We have a repeatable & partly controllable honing system, CLS runes, still a broken pet system and still a permanent & tradeable item frame . And the only 'security mechanism' we have is a low drop chance. (which increases the value even more)

 

And how surprisingly, we now have complains about others trying to reset bosses!

 

But is it really surprising that some players would do everything to get their chance to obtain a item worth 300k+ which is then most likely used for a real money trade? Did this bother someone a while back? I thought players are the new investment brokers and the game a predatory capitalism! If you've read this reply, you see that "morale" and "respect" are long outdated, not just with the introduction of FoPa. It's more like some fairytales you tell your kids to keep them pacified.

 

So my point is: This didn't happen out of the blue!

 

The low drop chance wasn't a new idea and surely not a mischevious act. And it's been a long way from unbeatable raid dungeons with untradeable tokens towards an open map including soloable/exploitable bosses with high value drops. Pet, class, hones and refinement inbalances all exist for a while now.

 

For me, it's interesting to see WHEN players start complain about certain things. F.e. the Queen of Destruction is camped and "stolen" for ages. A while back, we had complains how Eddga gear is such a nerf to all classes and we had assassins players requesting more open PvP grinding areas. So what happened?

 

Did Eddga turn out to be broken thanks to CLS runes? Did it became too valuable to allow an uncontrolled fight about bosses?  Would it be better if the devs had introduced FP as an open PvP map, just as it was requested?

 

And it's interesting HOW players want it to be fixed. You could say, how much the want to return to the original LotS version or whether they are more concerned about the actual impact.

 

But what to do now?

Of course, we could make it impossible to steal bosses. F.e. they could still follow the player with the highest threat, but they would switch priority to the next attackable target as soon as that player leaves the active zone around the boss (just as dying, stepping into water or activating smoke bomb does).

 

But would it really solve the issue or would players simply lure masses of monsters next to a player in hope that he would get aggro and would die to them?

 

And of course there are other options.

  • add Eddga gear to the guild vault as well (players didn't care about Cazar)
  • let WoE bosses drop Eddga gear (to follow the request for more PvP)
  • place the bosses inside a dungeon (away from an open MMO towards a dungeon crawler)
  • introduce an "item drop lockout" (away from endless grinds towards a more quest-related reward)
  • buff all bosses until they surely aren't solo- / duoable (easier than balancing classes)

Or we could devaluate the items by other means. Because IMO, it's not really about the boss reset. It's about the stolen chance for a high-value loot.


Edited by Greven79, 22 April 2015 - 06:07 AM.

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#13 Shinyusuke

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:26 AM

Easyfix real fix not the always preferred bandaid:

reduce ML1 gears power

reduce ml20 gear power

make purple gears untradeable and a secure drop from bosses

delete the bp/mp gear purchase

reduce again the seed rune power

delete honing or reduce drastically his effectiveness

reduce the refinement impact

reduce exp needed after ml20

delete exp events

delete drop events ike hhb that favour botters

reduce monsters defence and attack (and all the others stats)to match the new reduced power of players

reduce gear drops in dayr and revert back the previous value of each gear

delete the scroll for recipes and give them back to the job experts

 

after that we can start talking about fixing the game and balancing the classes


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#14 Telovi

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 11:46 AM

Until now, I failed to grasp this topic problem. What makes RO2 boss resetting different than RO MVP stealing? Their MVPs are free for all, by the way, so unless WP declares ours aren't, other players - including me - will keep treating them as FFA. Treat me like a piece of garbage because I inclined to play the game as a game for all you desire, but you can't say our boss competition is more one-sided than the clear advantage exuded by sura, ranger and genetic from that one game most of us have outgrown. At least I don't see any class can comfortably solo FP bosses. Yet.

Edited by Telovi, 20 April 2015 - 11:47 AM.

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#15 9632130515120055620

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 12:37 PM

At least I don't see any class can comfortably solo FP bosses. Yet.

 

Well geared Beastmasters can. especially those wiho have totally legit level 4 assassin elders


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 20 April 2015 - 12:38 PM.

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#16 Telovi

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 06:04 PM

Well geared Beastmasters can. especially those wiho have totally legit level 4 assassin elders

 

Will bump into that bigfoot soon or later.

 

 


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#17 Arbalist

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 07:05 PM

Actually, even a not-very-well geared BM can comfortably solo at least 3 of the bosses. No lvl 4 Elder Sin required.


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#18 Amilus

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 12:14 AM

an average ranger like me also can solo kushi XD

 

but well, kushi was one of the bosses nerfed, i cant solo it with better gear in TW server coz it hit me 28k often.


Edited by Amilus, 21 April 2015 - 12:16 AM.

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#19 9632130515120055620

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 01:12 AM

Actually, even a not-very-well geared BM can comfortably solo at least 3 of the bosses. No lvl 4 Elder Sin required.

Eh.. cat does a ton of damage and fast, you do need to be well equipped for her. Dancer also has a 10s stun.


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#20 Arbalist

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 08:12 AM

I've solo'd Kefri, Kushinada base form and Cat :o Mostly +7 Vit runes, Red/Blueseeds less than 20%, armor rune only 3% (lol) only +20 spear and top (maybe hat). Does that count as well geared? I didn't take all the buffs I should've either. I guess Cat was the harder one because she does sometimes two-shot me really quickly and I don't heal it fast enough. I don't know, game is broken as hell x_x


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#21 9632130515120055620

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 06:11 AM

The whole gimmick of the cat is that it's just a random brawl fest; she has several (4?) hard hitting attacks, one being an AoE, that deal 45-50k to me (even with armor 15%, over 100k HP and 86% defense!) and they come out at complete random intervals; she can and will string together all four in quick succession if you're unlucky, and you're gonna need three cruel bites (+survival) to live through that. Kepri can be solo'd by most classes with a heal pet anyway, and kushinada (first form) is soloable by anyone.


Edited by 9632130515120055620, 22 April 2015 - 06:12 AM.

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#22 Greven79

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 09:00 AM

Easyfix real fix not the always preferred bandaid:

reduce ML1 gears power

reduce ml20 gear power

make purple gears untradeable and a secure drop from bosses

delete the bp/mp gear purchase

reduce again the seed rune power

delete honing or reduce drastically his effectiveness

reduce the refinement impact

reduce exp needed after ml20

delete exp events

delete drop events ike hhb that favour botters

reduce monsters defence and attack (and all the others stats)to match the new reduced power of players

reduce gear drops in dayr and revert back the previous value of each gear

delete the scroll for recipes and give them back to the job experts

 

after that we can start talking about fixing the game and balancing the classes

 

All this is correct, but it still won't happen.

 

There's a good phrase I heard: "Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve." And to translate into a gaming context: "Games aren't (played) better than users deserve it.".

 

Usually own advantages are deemed necessary, loopholes or exploits kept a secret and the rewards called "a righteous compensation". And things are made puclic not so much if someone else gets a bigger advantage, but more if getting the own one is denied.

 

Players accepted it rather quietly that masses of anniversary letters, Osiris mats, HHBs could be farmed (common complains only about how long it takes to open them). And of course, bosses are camped (not just in FP), Jehoon fights pre-arranged and bots, macros, cheats, etc. used all over the place.

 

F.e. do you still remember that the devs added an additional MP bonus just for the Osiris Temple a long time ago? Or did you accept it unwillingly? Or  do you remember that there was a weapon damage adjustment?

 

But alll these kind of things backlash sooner or later. And sometimes it's as simple as players quitting, guilds breaking, a bolder abusal and a bitterly hatred.

____

 

Could you imagine how much players would complain if we would nerf the honing or refinement results? I know you might not like to hear this, but in regard of PvE, it's the same with pet level//damage and the according DNA drop chance. Restricting the tradeability of items will propably cause masses of "you took away our source of income" threads instead, just similar to the ones after the zeny nerf

 

Generally spoken, you can't nerf things without pissing someone off. no matter of if it's a gear or class change. And these ideas would affect many players and are more drastical than missing statpoints on Eddga gear. You will just hit the wrong nerf and do what I mentioned above: Denying players of their advantages. And in that way, it doesn't matter if others are nerfed as well. You will just get masses of "pointing fingers" arguments that one class or group would suffers more than others.

 

And that's really a big problem.

 

So if you find a solution to that one, please share it... because I lost my hope already.


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#23 Shinyusuke

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Posted 22 April 2015 - 10:37 AM

There is no way to do anything without making someone sad the problem is that thgis game can't go on in this condition and some strong decisions has to be taken.

But there is a way to reduce sensibly the damage for example  deleting seedrunes on menace and joser gears won't piss too many people and will introduce in the player head that before or after also osiris seedrunes will go away.

Give back the recipes to job expert will be seen as a way to get more accessible non endgame content (menace, joser, osiris, ascaron, master potions and so on), but the true impact will be a little zenny sink, the deletion of a zenny income (you can still sell scrolls to npc) and a more fairness to players that don't have a strong guild that can hemp them farmingfor example osiris recipes. Off course osiris recipes farmers will be pissed but the questions are more them or the players that will benefit of this change?

reduce the power of osiris gears just a bit to match the askaron stats and reducing the power of DW and ML30 dungeon will make asckaron usefull again, the reduction of power won't be a problem since the mobs will be nerfed as well (reduction of the monsters defence problem that now is near 90%), will slow a bit the farming at low level but not so much since most of the players will still be able to 1shot lv50 mobs.

Right now seedrunes works in this way:

140*rune% decreasing the first number to 100 will decrease the max power of seedrunes from 70 to 50, this is not a big change but will make seedrunes more clear since a seedrune 19 will add 19 to all stats so we won't have confusion also during the trades and this will reduce the overall power of these seedrunes. Since thay are already no more a % they will son lose their reason to be and new gears will be easily made without them.

 

In the end you will piss someone but you will increase your credibility as a publiscer and developer attarcting more players that the ones that leave and finally reverting the actual state.

 

 

EDIT

 

stupid example

 

Patch notes

 

the osiris gears stats will be reduced of 20%

the DW monsters will be reduced of 40%

 

 

suddenly players will see a nerf but after they will recognize a virtual overpowering of 20% 

that can be seen as less reasons to rune the osiris gears and to better approve the seedrune nerf


Edited by Shinyusuke, 22 April 2015 - 10:41 AM.

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