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My opinion about topic "#SaveCleric" and my sugestion after zurn closed topic


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#1 Filipito98

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 02:26 PM

(WARNING, READ EVERYTHING OR U GUYS WONT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING, JUMPING TO THE INTERESTED PART WILL MAKE U GUYS BE IGNORANTS HONESTLY (WICH MEANS THAN U GUYS DONT KNOW WHAT THIS POST WILL BE TALKED ABOUT AND SOME RULES)

 

Honestly, that topic is full of bull-_-, like everyone flamming everywere and bla bla bla, for the topic after be closed and everyone like get freaking mad with almost everyone? geez, that topic it was, the most flamming post i saw already in rose forums, but anyway didnt come here for complaing about others and etc.

 

SOOO i was for post a sugestion in that post, until after read almost all comments, zurn closed it because the post was going already to far from normal .... and well maybe wana start another topic or not but i will give my sugestion in this topic

 

before i start the topic i will answere some questions than u guys will ask maybe

What will this topic be about?

this topic i will talk about my sugestion for try to fix clerics without almost do any change to others classes (bad changes such well ppl getting mad due damage were lowed n bla bla bla (even tho damage atm is freaking op principal with the skill power pvp set wich is insane))

WHAT I WANT TO SEE IN COMMENTS?

what i want to see is a lil feedbacks of what u guys think and if u guys like, but ofc i dont want to see ONE SIMPLE FREAKING COMMENT SAYING bull-_- or being racist/insulting others players, idk if there's a option for i delete that comment but if isnt, maybe will ask zurn for delete if he dont mind to give me here a lil help in the comments

Warning to zurn - zurn if topic is rlly going to far from normal like the topic "save clerics" just close it, not even need to comment (if u want u can say reason) but just close it, even if is need just delete from here or close it temporaly and delete the comments. If u can help me with that i would thank you soo mutch, also the mensage is for Leonis/Genesis and other mod/dev.

 

OKEY LETS START THE SUGESTION

 

first of all the sugestions/builds im telling yeah i didnt tested yet but also wont test cuz i dont do CD with cleric, honestly i dont like to do CD with cleric due i like more offensive classes principal raider, but i always try to find out some gd ways for try to fix this instead saying i already played and bla bla bla, atually i do did some CD in old times (before these updates (cleric nerfs)) but even too it was just luck cuz had some gd teams. after that i just became a pvm player. soo yeah some of this sugestions might be builds and i didnt tested, would like but cant due dont wana waste mats for nthing, sry about that.

 

(another warning - feel free to also add advantages and disadvantages in the sugestions because some advantages and disadvantages are the ones than what im thinking :) )

 

1st Suggestion (29/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

2nd Suggestion (29/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

3rd suggestion (30/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

4th Sugestion (30/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

5th Suggestion (30/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

6th Suggestion (31/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

7th Suggestion (31/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

8th Suggestion (31/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

9th Suggestion (01/04/2015)

Spoiler

 

10th Suggestion (29/03/2015)

Spoiler

 

AND THOSE ARE MY SUGESTIONS

Take care everyone :D and dont forget about the rules ¬¬ e.e -.-"

~EruzaScarlet Aka Filipe

(last warning atm - sry because some words in the post :D, my english isnt that mutch pro but i tryed to do my best also sry if maybe u guys might wont understand somethings :\ ....)


Edited by Filipito98, 01 April 2015 - 09:23 AM.

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#2 TheRealCaNehDa

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 02:38 PM

I'd rather 0 fix, than any of your proposed solutions. 


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#3 Phish

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 03:56 PM

I like the 3rd suggestion.


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#4 KatsuraKujo

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 04:50 PM

Yeah, this is just my opinion. Changing heal power to INT base is not going to solve anything in the current state, as the heals are not the problem with it now. 

 

Changing to full battle FS COULD work, but i have no more free reset to even try that out, so i can't say anything for this one.

 

3rd suggestion is something interesting. FS might as well lay low for now and not join CD until any better suggestions can be thought up, something being fixed or a new type of way to support the clerics.

 

Sorry i don't have suggestion, i'm just giving opinion for now. I'll post what i can think off if it comes to mind

 

Miki


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#5 Castanho

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 05:01 PM

The suggestions you gave already exist. People just don't know how to play cleric. 

 

Sure, the class still need some balance, but again, people just don't know to play as a cleric.


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#6 nooooodles

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 05:19 PM

Just take a page from the union war days and allow goulash in cd. And make buff pots better. Did you see people sticking to a cleric back in uw? No. They could support themselves w food. Either that or find some system to divide fs clerics up evenly. One cleric vs one is fine. But two or more vs 1 is a pain. You could even get rid of the grouping system altogether since some CDs are not even worth joining when people make up their own group w/ every class they need to win vs a random grp of people. Probably the most annoying thing in CDs.
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#7 thetrangdamvn

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 05:33 PM

*Slap Filipito98*

Baka, watch your grammar =))


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#8 siryu

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:37 PM

yeay,, disable grouping for CD ...

awesome :)


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#9 turnermanxi

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 10:06 PM

Disabling groups sounds good but disabling fs clerics is a little harsh.  That means people who only play fs cleric can't play at all and would have to make a new character...  Nah that's not going work..


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#10 MarK1789

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 10:36 PM

Combat difference and How Clerics can cope up with the fast-paced combat system: 

 

BEFORE:

 

least require skills(kiting or what they call in MOBA's.. macro), players depends on cleric too much to sustain themselves. What's happening is those who are on the weaker side has no chance to win at all therefore it's just a one sided game. Then what about if both sides are equally strong? What happens then is that people punch each other's faces forever until the 5 minute mark comes out. Pretty much REWARDING in terms of points but doesn't really have the essence of PVP and is really boring. I know you know what i'm talking about. 

 

NOW:

will require players to use timing and kiting skills and not be too much cleric-dependent. as they can get insta-bursted by others even when they are full buffs and the other side is not. Cleric's on the other hand will require putting some resistances into it's armors depending on the team composition of its opponents and not just stand on one spot and spread free heals to himself and others even if it is getting focused by 5 bigtime hitters, which doesn't even makes sense. It will also require skills to pilot a FS properly like what most other top MMO's do.

 

 

What cleric/the current fast-pace combat needs:

well today since CD is the only game that has a chance of starting, the following opinions/suggestions is for CD only

 

There's just one -two little things that cleric has a problem with, one is, it cannot go with the flow with the current fast-paced combat. Being said that damage output has been increased means all classes are affected. 

 

Since the combat mechanics became fast paced, dying and waiting for a rebuff is really a pain in the @SS. 

 

Therefore inorder for FS's to be still as rewarding as before and still go with the flow of a fast-paced combat. buffs should not disappear upon death. And also Cleric's charm buffs should still apply to him even if he switches to battle gears and should have a little extra mspd passive besides from quick medic.

 

and also THAT WALL OF CHINA IN THE SECOND CRYSTAL, IF NOT REMOVED SHOULD BE MODIFIED.

 

 

 


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#11 Filipito98

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 02:27 AM

well thank you guys for u guys feedback, and yeah i was expecting feedbacks like those (not acepting) cuz i even asked some friends before post this xD and even some said after talk about Int stat (nooooooooooo i dont want them changing that), but anyway thank you guys for the feedback :3 + there was a few comments wich i laught a lil (like 2nd one xD). but yeah this was a example and atm looking to the comments it seems not a gd sugestion xd

 

 

*Slap Filipito98*

Baka, watch your grammar =))

shush :C ik my grammar is bad :C q-q


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#12 angeltje

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:18 AM

my suggestion would be: make some honor/valor gear specially for the FS Cleric with def and charm stat. that way we also have a valor/honor related gear and not just exalted or reinforced!

that would lower the squishyness from this support cleric already :p_idea:


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#13 Feuer

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 04:25 AM

Filip: There are a few gems mixed in with a lot of aimless changes. If you want my honest opinion I'll tell you in a PM. 


Edited by Feuer, 30 March 2015 - 04:41 AM.

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#14 Holyfrost

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 05:13 AM

I think there is a healer build, which sacrifices all buffs for extra defense and offhand defense. 

 

Also, don't go as far as to remove heal power from charm. Heal power is sometimes not enough in PvP or PvM, in some cases, that is.

 

This "balance" with the buffs could actually be useful, but I think the +65 buffs are already enough. To get +63 already costs billions, to get +65 costs more. Effort will go to waste.

 

Your 3rd suggestion though, might be good, but I really don't want my only useful character, which is a cleric, go useless.

 

We could also go add a limit to the buffs the players can get in GA(PvP), like instead of +65 in CD, it would be +30 or something. Any buff above +30 will stay +30. It shouldn't affect PVM though. If it does, then bye.

 

Or just add an additional 5% or 10% to the cleric's def passive. 

 

Anyway, just saying my own opinions and suggestions la Erza, :3 don't kill me.

 

 


Edited by Holyfrost, 30 March 2015 - 05:14 AM.

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#15 Filipito98

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 06:14 AM

I think there is a healer build, which sacrifices all buffs for extra defense and offhand defense. 

 

Also, don't go as far as to remove heal power from charm. Heal power is sometimes not enough in PvP or PvM, in some cases, that is.

 

This "balance" with the buffs could actually be useful, but I think the +65 buffs are already enough. To get +63 already costs billions, to get +65 costs more. Effort will go to waste.

 

Your 3rd suggestion though, might be good, but I really don't want my only useful character, which is a cleric, go useless.

 

We could also go add a limit to the buffs the players can get in GA(PvP), like instead of +65 in CD, it would be +30 or something. Any buff above +30 will stay +30. It shouldn't affect PVM though. If it does, then bye.

 

Or just add an additional 5% or 10% to the cleric's def passive. 

 

Anyway, just saying my own opinions and suggestions la Erza, :3 don't kill me.

well the 2nd suggestion i said was for not make players get mad due them hard work, since 684 charm is atm the max for get the best buffs (with basic stat (400)) would make players happy cuz they didn't waste billions of zulies for nothing, wich means having 684 (charm gear) would make cleric have max buffs, wich means +65 buffs and the rest also max :).

 

@Feuer if u mean the face item gems, they kinda useless atm, except the mute one, but since there's more stuns skills instead mute skills it will be a lil useless, only if player have toons of luck in them cleric.

There's some players who would prefer having 30 charm in face item or any other def type instead stun resist, but for me well even 1% of stun resist is much, i do agree with that gems but the rate is so low, than will make players lose them faith in the class making them more sad because the rates might be just lies.

in my opinion,1 point of atack or 1 point of def or every stat there exists, can give a huge change but that's my opinion.

but if isnt those gems im talking about than idk xd.


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#16 Feuer

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 06:24 AM

It's an expression filip. It means there are some truly good ideas, but they're smothered by less desired suggestions. 


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#17 aditya2320

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 06:33 AM

this all only for support cleric? how about battle cleric. for you know i made topic #SaveCleric for talk about battle cleric not only for support cleric, and you guys flamming. and that why my thread closed by zurn. and why when i talk about battle cleric no one care? and always talk about support cleric. did u guys scare? if a BC being OP?

and i read last comment from zurn. he said "If you want we can move posts to a new thread but I would suggest talking to class reps about changes you would like" how to talk suggest to class reps. if he dont know about cleric (he said before like this : I will not talk about BC becuse I have never ever played that class. I will talk to the Full Support class side. ) or u can check on thread #SaveCleric page 1

Edited by Zurn, 31 March 2015 - 11:42 AM.

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#18 KatsuraKujo

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 07:15 AM

this all only for support cleric? how about battle cleric. for you know i made topic #SaveCleric for talk about battle cleric not only for support cleric, and you guys flamming. and that why my thread closed by zurn. and why when i talk about battle cleric no one care? and always talk about support cleric. did u guys scare? if a BC being OP?

 

Uhh they are already op atm. With Mana shield, crazy def and block rate, nice ap, magic pierce and quite fast. Sooooo not sure what are you saying.

 

and i read last comment from zurn. he said "If you want we can move posts to a new thread but I would suggest talking to class reps about changes you would like" how to talk suggest to class reps. if he dont know about cleric (he said before like this : I will not talk about BC because I have never ever played that class. I will talk to the Full Support class side. ) or u can check on thread #SaveCleric page 1

 

that's only 1 person, there's more class reps for cleric, not just buffies. Also, now this page turned to a suggestion page, please do refrain from saying anything that's going to "flame" this post. Post your suggestions if you want to.


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#19 Bendersmom

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 08:27 AM

I am a cleric rep and honestly I find the FS cleric boring to play these days.  And the attitude of everyone wanting buffs and heals just for themselves and telling clerics that they suck, yet not protecting the clerics, really has gotten to me. I started playing another game lately along with Rose that actually made me realize all the things I miss about the cleric class in Rose.  Personally, at this point, I would say take all buffs away from the cleric and just give each class buffs that would benefit that class (for example give clerics the healing buff, int up, HP and MP up and maybe some def).  Give bows accuracy, increase crit, and maybe an ap buff.  Give all classes a mspd buff.  Things like that.  Keep the heals on the FS cleric as their contribution to the group as the DPS or tanks have their special abilities.  That will then open up more possibilities for cleric builds.  We could go back to being useful again and not a slave to everyone else.  

 

The game has changed a lot and the attitudes in the game have changed a lot, not saying good or bad, just different.  Many do not really play as a team using their own strengths to help each other.  Most are in it for themselves these days and I don't see that changing any time soon.  Buffs are screwing up the game and class balances, which has been said many times and I know, I fought it myself but I have come around to thinking it might be a good idea.  I truly loved being able to help noobs out with buffs and heals, and to support my group in battles or farming, but a FS cleric now is just able to heal and buff.  We really can't go farming alone, or participate that much in leveling.  The old cleric could actually have an attack or two and actually farm.  But to be worthwhile in PVP now and dungeons, a FS cleric has to be max charm with max heals and buffs or they get kicked out or ridiculed.  I have tried a variety of FS builds with some atk skills but you lose so much for buffs and heals and def when you do that you are essentially worthless.  

 

A bourg or mage can usually just change gear to go PVM and back to PVP.  A FS cleric built for wars and Game arena games is worthless for farming or quests.  And a BC is good for PVM or PVP but not for heals or buffs.  Even if a FS cleric changes to PVM gear, they will have good def against mobs but still not really be worthwhile in a party or solo farming or quests.  I am not saying make the FS cleric into a BC with heals.  The heals and def skills and a few cleric buffs will take enough SP from the support cleric to only allow for maybe 2 attack skills.  But it would give the support cleric a way to help defend themselves and farm or quest.

 

Just my opinion, not a majority of clerics polled or anything.  Just some insight as to my thoughts about the cleric after playing healing classes in other games.  


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#20 Filipito98

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 08:56 AM

I am a cleric rep and honestly I find the FS cleric boring to play these days.  And the attitude of everyone wanting buffs and heals just for themselves and telling clerics that they suck, yet not protecting the clerics, really has gotten to me. I started playing another game lately along with Rose that actually made me realize all the things I miss about the cleric class in Rose.  Personally, at this point, I would say take all buffs away from the cleric and just give each class buffs that would benefit that class (for example give clerics the healing buff, int up, HP and MP up and maybe some def).  Give bows accuracy, increase crit, and maybe an ap buff.  Give all classes a mspd buff.  Things like that.  Keep the heals on the FS cleric as their contribution to the group as the DPS or tanks have their special abilities.  That will then open up more possibilities for cleric builds.  We could go back to being useful again and not a slave to everyone else.  

 

The game has changed a lot and the attitudes in the game have changed a lot, not saying good or bad, just different.  Many do not really play as a team using their own strengths to help each other.  Most are in it for themselves these days and I don't see that changing any time soon.  Buffs are screwing up the game and class balances, which has been said many times and I know, I fought it myself but I have come around to thinking it might be a good idea.  I truly loved being able to help noobs out with buffs and heals, and to support my group in battles or farming, but a FS cleric now is just able to heal and buff.  We really can't go farming alone, or participate that much in leveling.  The old cleric could actually have an attack or two and actually farm.  But to be worthwhile in PVP now and dungeons, a FS cleric has to be max charm with max heals and buffs or they get kicked out or ridiculed.  I have tried a variety of FS builds with some atk skills but you lose so much for buffs and heals and def when you do that you are essentially worthless.  

 

A bourg or mage can usually just change gear to go PVM and back to PVP.  A FS cleric built for wars and Game arena games is worthless for farming or quests.  And a BC is good for PVM or PVP but not for heals or buffs.  Even if a FS cleric changes to PVM gear, they will have good def against mobs but still not really be worthwhile in a party or solo farming or quests.  I am not saying make the FS cleric into a BC with heals.  The heals and def skills and a few cleric buffs will take enough SP from the support cleric to only allow for maybe 2 attack skills.  But it would give the support cleric a way to help defend themselves and farm or quest.

 

Just my opinion, not a majority of clerics polled or anything.  Just some insight as to my thoughts about the cleric after playing healing classes in other games.  

Well i do understanded what u said but also this feedback gived me another sugestion, wich i do know many ppl wont agree since it might will be useless for pvp

Making a new class named buffer, wich means, is the only class than could buffs (supporting team with buffs). but that might would be that mutch. the problem is, most of clerics waste 40 sp in buffs because is one of the most usefull things in the game, even tho im already kinda sick seeing newbies asking for buffs 24/7 in junon because they dont survive with buffs, is kinda annoying seeing them always asking for buffs, making some clerics cant do them stuffs.

now talking about this feedback, in my opinion i think wen players play with a cleric in them team, most of times they just care about buffs wich means like heals and bla bla bla are useless. lucky it isnt because if wasnt cleric they was dead in seconds. as bendersmom said, "But to be worthwhile in PVP now and dungeons, a FS cleric has to be max charm with max heals and buffs or they get kicked out or ridiculed." that's one thing than ik is true, wich make clerics def be like, squishy, even if them def is squishy, them def will be more with just this stats (max charm than int). is kinda bad seeing a cleric only usefull in CD just for buffs but than in the end, end up get killed with them mates :\. but that's just my opinion.


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#21 Feuer

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 08:58 AM

I've learned to not subject logical healing archetypes to ROSE, most see it as nonsense, even when you know it works from experience and the other games having tens of thousands, if not millions of players. 

Good feedback bender. 


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#22 angeltje

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 09:07 AM

:p_swt: butbut big disagree :p_sad: i see it as: just ruin FS cleric more :thx: :p_sick:

 

i like to being able to heal and buff up my team....

why taking that away if FS cleric just need more def..

 

 

if Cleric has no buffs there is no full support anymore!! is that what you want?

it will be only BC then :wah:


Edited by angeltje, 30 March 2015 - 09:13 AM.

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#23 KatsuraKujo

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 09:19 AM

Actually angel, war cleric/pvp support clerics are more to only having heals most of the time. FS well they are as they are called, full support so not exactly if the buffs are gone, it will result in clerics changing to be BC instead. Just saying :v

 

and FINALLY something feuer and i agree to, and that's agreeing with benderson. *high five for 1st time :v* (i'll probabally get smacked)


Edited by KatsuraKujo, 30 March 2015 - 09:22 AM.

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#24 Filipito98

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 09:20 AM

okey so, i was discussing with miki and got also worried with angel XD anyway

another sugestion

buffing a lil cleric def, but also decreasing attack/m.def pierce in cleric

why?

buffing up the cleric def would make BC more op as they are due them m.def pierce is too high than most of low m.def players might can die in seconds. also the m.def from all the classes is low, this seems the only and best suggestion we do can give to devs.

ik most players want cleric def high, but if they want to do that we need to sacrifice a lil attack from battle cleric. 

anyway, that's another sugestion, might will update 1st post with the sugestions we got here


Edited by Filipito98, 30 March 2015 - 09:24 AM.

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#25 angeltje

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Posted 30 March 2015 - 09:25 AM

Full support is named full support cuz they support with heal and buffs and arent supposed to be fighters..

otherwise its hybrid or BC or just support.

Full support is only and only support. big diffrence!

 

 

its about save the cleric not take away some parts from cleric job.

you got BC and FS and something in the middle. FS needs buffs to be full supportive and just need more def so better gear for them.

not take away buff and take away the whole FS purpose. i love to read sugestions but pls make them as improvel and not as destroyal.


Edited by angeltje, 30 March 2015 - 09:32 AM.

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