(WARNING, READ EVERYTHING OR U GUYS WONT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING, JUMPING TO THE INTERESTED PART WILL MAKE U GUYS BE IGNORANTS HONESTLY (WICH MEANS THAN U GUYS DONT KNOW WHAT THIS POST WILL BE TALKED ABOUT AND SOME RULES)
Honestly, that topic is full of bull-_-, like everyone flamming everywere and bla bla bla, for the topic after be closed and everyone like get freaking mad with almost everyone? geez, that topic it was, the most flamming post i saw already in rose forums, but anyway didnt come here for complaing about others and etc.
SOOO i was for post a sugestion in that post, until after read almost all comments, zurn closed it because the post was going already to far from normal .... and well maybe wana start another topic or not but i will give my sugestion in this topic
before i start the topic i will answere some questions than u guys will ask maybe
What will this topic be about?
this topic i will talk about my sugestion for try to fix clerics without almost do any change to others classes (bad changes such well ppl getting mad due damage were lowed n bla bla bla (even tho damage atm is freaking op principal with the skill power pvp set wich is insane))
WHAT I WANT TO SEE IN COMMENTS?
what i want to see is a lil feedbacks of what u guys think and if u guys like, but ofc i dont want to see ONE SIMPLE FREAKING COMMENT SAYING bull-_- or being racist/insulting others players, idk if there's a option for i delete that comment but if isnt, maybe will ask zurn for delete if he dont mind to give me here a lil help in the comments
Warning to zurn - zurn if topic is rlly going to far from normal like the topic "save clerics" just close it, not even need to comment (if u want u can say reason) but just close it, even if is need just delete from here or close it temporaly and delete the comments. If u can help me with that i would thank you soo mutch, also the mensage is for Leonis/Genesis and other mod/dev.
OKEY LETS START THE SUGESTION
first of all the sugestions/builds im telling yeah i didnt tested yet but also wont test cuz i dont do CD with cleric, honestly i dont like to do CD with cleric due i like more offensive classes principal raider, but i always try to find out some gd ways for try to fix this instead saying i already played and bla bla bla, atually i do did some CD in old times (before these updates (cleric nerfs)) but even too it was just luck cuz had some gd teams. after that i just became a pvm player. soo yeah some of this sugestions might be builds and i didnt tested, would like but cant due dont wana waste mats for nthing, sry about that.
(another warning - feel free to also add advantages and disadvantages in the sugestions because some advantages and disadvantages are the ones than what im thinking )
1st Suggestion (29/03/2015)
Spoiler
Make a battle support, what i mean by battle support is, players focusing in heals instead buffs, wich means players wont be waste SP in buffs but yes in them def and heals power
If devs could change the heal power to int wich means, int would give heal power instead charm they could change them builds
Advantages
- not worried with buffs and teams might will be faired due just a few players will buy buff pots
- if team acept with that might can carry the team to victory if the build is sucessfull
- win more 40 sp due buffs (5 sp each buff max lvl)
- might can focus more in team due maybe a gd def than old build
Disadvantages
- all them hard work in charm gear will be wasted for nthing, wich means most players wont agree with this sugestion
- since it wasn't tested yet we dont know if the def will be gd, wich can maybe make u guys lose mats for nthing.
- players (offensive ones such raiders/scouts/bourg/BA/and etc) might will be afk due cleric just have heals but not buffs (ignorant ppl)
2nd Suggestion (29/03/2015)
Spoiler
Balancing stats only for clerics or maybe for all classes.
this kind of balance im talking about is totally different. is not only going to balance some stats but also will give a huge help for those who farmed charm set.
the stats than i might want most changed is
Charm and Int
Int Stat
- Add heal power (wich means every int point will also increase heal power)
Charm Stat
- Remove heal power
- Buffs and debuffs keep in this stat but with a change to cleric only maybe
and what change is going to be in the cleric charm stat?
Spoiler
since the max stat from the skill Angelic Charm/Chant is +65 we could like balance buffs for a max stat wich means example
max stat for skill Angelic Charm/Chant - +65
max stat for skill Wallop Charm/Chant - 10% + 130
and etc
the stats wasnt take from my cleric but yes i asked my friend if she had max charm stat (the best charm set atm) soo yeah thank you @LunaXavier for this help in the stats
soo based in this stat, those stats are from 1084 charm (400 in base charm + 684 in gear charm) but what i mean in the stats is
doing a max stat will make with that x charm the cleric can have that buff, wich means even add more charm will not affect ANYMORE the stat. The int stat buff will still normal wich means 684 charm will give that x amount of int.
after u guys readed the spoiler up in this phrase, u guys will take a conclusion of this sugestion, the sugestion to cleric charm stat wont affect others chars, wich means others classes can upgrade them stats, OR, if we would add this sugestion from cleric charm stat we could affect the others classes buffs BUT with a lil more points due class buff, wich means
Cleric buffs should be enought for pvp. soo players wont need to afect them classes and finally become gd damagers instead focusing in charm due that high buffs
Outside CD games such TG or ruins, some players will have those buffs wich will looks like IM ones but they wont due IM give more bonus.
if we apply that sugestion we could do like this
- the classes buffs such hawker ones/dealer ones/soldier ones cant be used except the stat one in CD
- outside CD they can be used were they want, but also with a limit buff (wich means after got to a x charm that buff wont be affected more except the stat one (stat one maybe can go to 400 due max base is 400 wich means new charm gear will come soo ppl can upgrade the stat buff)
about debuffs we should discuss in another topic or maybe u guys could give the sugestion here
SOO LETS GO TO THE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES
Spoiler
Advantages
- players can go to them builds soo they can focus the heal power in int and etc making a gd build for do CD again (using exalted gear is already gd)
- players charm items will be usefull again due max charm they will get is 684 (a disadvantage here)
- players clerics can have different stats instead full charm and than int wich can balance them char for pvp.
- others classes buffs will have a add stat such like example, cleric aspd buff (10% + 50% (max stat at 684 charm)), hawker aspd buff (10% + 60% (max stat at 684 charm)) wich means here the example, hawker buff will gain more 10% aspd
Disadvantages
- some gear would need to change for a normal stat such unique tier (accessory) to unique tier max charm stat but also giving a advantage of a add stat such dogde, m.speed, etc.
- due sp used in buffs, they might wont have enought sp for the def passives wich can have maybe a lil disadvantage in def.
- others classes buffs cant be used in CD games, giving a advantage of focusing damage build but a disadvantage of losing maybe 10% more buff.
3rd suggestion (30/03/2015)
Spoiler
By Filipito98
Making a new class named buffer, wich means, is the only class than could buffs (supporting team with buffs). but that might would be that mutch.
4th Sugestion (30/03/2015)
Spoiler
By Filipito98:
buffing a lil cleric def, but also decreasing attack/m.def pierce in cleric
why?
buffing up the cleric def would make BC more op as they are due them m.def pierce is too high than most of low m.def players might can die in seconds. also the m.def from all the classes is low, this seems the only and best suggestion we do can give to devs.
ik most players want cleric def high, but if they want to do that we need to sacrifice a lil attack from battle cleric.
5th Suggestion (30/03/2015)
Spoiler
by angeltje:
my sugestion is: honor gear with deff and/or no requirement for the im buffs that way you can choice to invest less skillpoints and still have your awesome buffs!
6th Suggestion (31/03/2015)
Spoiler
By Holyfrost and Filipito98
If we were to remove a few buffs from cleric, let's say, 12 buffs to 6 buffs or 3 (i'm perfectly fine with it), then the cleric should be given a few offensive capabilities. It's defensive side can be upgraded at least. With a proper build, it can withstand a few hits from other players, in cases of PVP.
Why not a skill that deals damage and decreases the opponent's mdef, but also decreasing your mdef, but since you are a cleric, your mdef will still be superior. I know there's a skill that decreases mdef of an enemy, but to learn it is to sacrifice a useful skill for a cleric.
Or to get the cleric's def moving a bit more, why not change Mystic Armor from 3 Def per x Intelligence to 3 Def per x Charm? We can go to as far as 3 Defense per 1 Charm, but it might move the cleric's defense from too less to too much.
instead changing the mystic armor to charm all about do same skill but different stats
example
Mystic Armor (Int) - 3 def per 1 int
Mystic Armor (Charm) - 3 def per x charm (the x still need to see betwen maybe 1 or 2)
but after dragon skin be lvl max soo u can only select one of those, because making u can select both, BC could also focus in charm for just a lil def making it with more def than the normal :\. or maybe doing other kind of stat idk. xd
7th Suggestion (31/03/2015)
Spoiler
By Bendersmom:
That is what I was talking about Angel and Holy. I did not mean that clerics would not have any buffs at all, but they should have only those that are supportive to the group and not a part of other classes buffs. I like the uniqueness of Rose having buffs, etc. but I think that to balance the game out better and make other classes actually get buffs and use their SP in other things then just AP, they could distribute the buffs better between classes and therefore allow the support cleric to gain some SP to put into some offensive skills. The offensive skills would not allow the support cleric to be really strong like a BC but would allow them to at least farm a bit, protect themselves a little and do quests. So instead of thinking about a full support cleric it would actually become a support cleric. You would support the team but the team would not be completely worthless without you. And if you wanted to solo farm you could build a bit differently and still farm and do quests. It would give the clerics more options and still be able to be supportive in GA or w/e they like. And it might make it easier to balance the classes.
Example - support cleric has heals, purify, defensive self skills like dragonskin, and 3-4 buffs like increase mp/hp, increase mdef, increase heal power, increase intelligence. The knight would have increased def buff, increased hp buff or such, the Bourg and scout would have increased dex, etc. and the raider would have increased mspd. Alone each buff would help the class themselves and in a party the buffs combined would help the team. And I think buffs should just be party buffs, at least the team buffs should be. But maybe each class could still have single, self buffs like mspd or other buffs that might help in solo farming. Maybe something like the cleric having an increased AP for solo farming mobs (PVM only).
I know it would be too much for the game of Rose to get rid of Buffs completely. But I think that the game suffers from lack of team play and all classes being needed in groups. That then leads to an over abundance of one particular class and others just a side project and it leads to bad behavior. The game used to be more "friendly" for lack of a better word. I think having to rely on each other again would be great, but also allow the cleric to do more things in game by being able to solo for some things.
Anyway, just an idea.
8th Suggestion (31/03/2015)
Spoiler
By Filipito98
well angie nw i got kinda confuse with the buffer with some heals and buffs and cleric the same XD
aand i was for say smthing but forget it, yeah just realised nw how many ppl would be sad if clerics buffs was removed, resuming we shouldn't remove clerics buffs due IM buffs wich some ppl bought with real money, soo suggestions about removing buffs in cleric wont happen. in my opinion, wich means we just have 2 options
or making buffs by lvl instead SP (example, at lvl 10 u can learn the 5 first buffs, than at 25 u can upgrade, lvl 50 another upgrade, 75 another upgrade, 100 last upgrade , same as cleric ones) giving others players can have gd buffs based in lvls but also no sp usage, IM ones maybe avaliable at lvl 200? ;o depends if the buff is already in max, or upgrading cleric def without overpower BC :3 (i like the lvl up buffs )
edit - or maybe a support points system, everytime someone help a player with heals and etc will earn x amount of points, and upgrade the buffs with that points making also clerics in the start usefull :3.
p.s - doing this system it shouldn't be aplyed to Battle clerics (or maybe yeah) :3
might wont be a bad idea wich means strong team is winner :3
AND THOSE ARE MY SUGESTIONS
Take care everyone and dont forget about the rules ¬¬ e.e -.-"
~EruzaScarlet Aka Filipe
(last warning atm - sry because some words in the post , my english isnt that mutch pro but i tryed to do my best also sry if maybe u guys might wont understand somethings :\ ....)
Yeah, this is just my opinion. Changing heal power to INT base is not going to solve anything in the current state, as the heals are not the problem with it now.
Changing to full battle FS COULD work, but i have no more free reset to even try that out, so i can't say anything for this one.
3rd suggestion is something interesting. FS might as well lay low for now and not join CD until any better suggestions can be thought up, something being fixed or a new type of way to support the clerics.
Sorry i don't have suggestion, i'm just giving opinion for now. I'll post what i can think off if it comes to mind
Just take a page from the union war days and allow goulash in cd. And make buff pots better. Did you see people sticking to a cleric back in uw? No. They could support themselves w food. Either that or find some system to divide fs clerics up evenly. One cleric vs one is fine. But two or more vs 1 is a pain. You could even get rid of the grouping system altogether since some CDs are not even worth joining when people make up their own group w/ every class they need to win vs a random grp of people. Probably the most annoying thing in CDs.
Disabling groups sounds good but disabling fs clerics is a little harsh. That means people who only play fs cleric can't play at all and would have to make a new character... Nah that's not going work..
Combat difference and How Clerics can cope up with the fast-paced combat system:
BEFORE:
least require skills(kiting or what they call in MOBA's.. macro), players depends on cleric too much to sustain themselves. What's happening is those who are on the weaker side has no chance to win at all therefore it's just a one sided game. Then what about if both sides are equally strong? What happens then is that people punch each other's faces forever until the 5 minute mark comes out. Pretty much REWARDING in terms of points but doesn't really have the essence of PVP and is really boring. I know you know what i'm talking about.
NOW:
will require players to use timing and kiting skills and not be too much cleric-dependent. as they can get insta-bursted by others even when they are full buffs and the other side is not. Cleric's on the other hand will require putting some resistances into it's armors depending on the team composition of its opponents and not just stand on one spot and spread free heals to himself and others even if it is getting focused by 5 bigtime hitters, which doesn't even makes sense. It will also require skills to pilot a FS properly like what most other top MMO's do.
What cleric/the current fast-pace combat needs:
well today since CD is the only game that has a chance of starting, the following opinions/suggestions is for CD only
There's just one -two little things that cleric has a problem with, one is, it cannot go with the flow with the current fast-paced combat. Being said that damage output has been increased means all classes are affected.
Since the combat mechanics became fast paced, dying and waiting for a rebuff is really a pain in the @SS.
Therefore inorder for FS's to be still as rewarding as before and still go with the flow of a fast-paced combat. buffs should not disappear upon death. And also Cleric's charm buffs should still apply to him even if he switches to battle gears and should have a little extra mspd passive besides from quick medic.
and also THAT WALL OF CHINA IN THE SECOND CRYSTAL, IF NOT REMOVED SHOULD BE MODIFIED.
well thank you guys for u guys feedback, and yeah i was expecting feedbacks like those (not acepting) cuz i even asked some friends before post this xD and even some said after talk about Int stat (nooooooooooo i dont want them changing that), but anyway thank you guys for the feedback :3 + there was a few comments wich i laught a lil (like 2nd one xD). but yeah this was a example and atm looking to the comments it seems not a gd sugestion xd
my suggestion would be: make some honor/valor gear specially for the FS Cleric with def and charm stat. that way we also have a valor/honor related gear and not just exalted or reinforced!
that would lower the squishyness from this support cleric already
I think there is a healer build, which sacrifices all buffs for extra defense and offhand defense.
Also, don't go as far as to remove heal power from charm. Heal power is sometimes not enough in PvP or PvM, in some cases, that is.
This "balance" with the buffs could actually be useful, but I think the +65 buffs are already enough. To get +63 already costs billions, to get +65 costs more. Effort will go to waste.
Your 3rd suggestion though, might be good, but I really don't want my only useful character, which is a cleric, go useless.
We could also go add a limit to the buffs the players can get in GA(PvP), like instead of +65 in CD, it would be +30 or something. Any buff above +30 will stay +30. It shouldn't affect PVM though. If it does, then bye.
Or just add an additional 5% or 10% to the cleric's def passive.
Anyway, just saying my own opinions and suggestions la Erza, :3 don't kill me.
I think there is a healer build, which sacrifices all buffs for extra defense and offhand defense.
Also, don't go as far as to remove heal power from charm. Heal power is sometimes not enough in PvP or PvM, in some cases, that is.
This "balance" with the buffs could actually be useful, but I think the +65 buffs are already enough. To get +63 already costs billions, to get +65 costs more. Effort will go to waste.
Your 3rd suggestion though, might be good, but I really don't want my only useful character, which is a cleric, go useless.
We could also go add a limit to the buffs the players can get in GA(PvP), like instead of +65 in CD, it would be +30 or something. Any buff above +30 will stay +30. It shouldn't affect PVM though. If it does, then bye.
Or just add an additional 5% or 10% to the cleric's def passive.
Anyway, just saying my own opinions and suggestions la Erza, :3 don't kill me.
well the 2nd suggestion i said was for not make players get mad due them hard work, since 684 charm is atm the max for get the best buffs (with basic stat (400)) would make players happy cuz they didn't waste billions of zulies for nothing, wich means having 684 (charm gear) would make cleric have max buffs, wich means +65 buffs and the rest also max .
@Feuer if u mean the face item gems, they kinda useless atm, except the mute one, but since there's more stuns skills instead mute skills it will be a lil useless, only if player have toons of luck in them cleric.
There's some players who would prefer having 30 charm in face item or any other def type instead stun resist, but for me well even 1% of stun resist is much, i do agree with that gems but the rate is so low, than will make players lose them faith in the class making them more sad because the rates might be just lies.
in my opinion,1 point of atack or 1 point of def or every stat there exists, can give a huge change but that's my opinion.
but if isnt those gems im talking about than idk xd.
this all only for support cleric? how about battle cleric. for you know i made topic #SaveCleric for talk about battle cleric not only for support cleric, and you guys flamming. and that why my thread closed by zurn. and why when i talk about battle cleric no one care? and always talk about support cleric. did u guys scare? if a BC being OP?
and i read last comment from zurn. he said "If you want we can move posts to a new thread but I would suggest talking to class reps about changes you would like" how to talk suggest to class reps. if he dont know about cleric (he said before like this : I will not talk about BC becuse I have never ever played that class. I will talk to the Full Support class side. ) or u can check on thread #SaveCleric page 1
this all only for support cleric? how about battle cleric. for you know i made topic #SaveCleric for talk about battle cleric not only for support cleric, and you guys flamming. and that why my thread closed by zurn. and why when i talk about battle cleric no one care? and always talk about support cleric. did u guys scare? if a BC being OP?
Uhh they are already op atm. With Mana shield, crazy def and block rate, nice ap, magic pierce and quite fast. Sooooo not sure what are you saying.
and i read last comment from zurn. he said "If you want we can move posts to a new thread but I would suggest talking to class reps about changes you would like" how to talk suggest to class reps. if he dont know about cleric (he said before like this : I will not talk about BC because I have never ever played that class. I will talk to the Full Support class side. ) or u can check on thread #SaveCleric page 1
that's only 1 person, there's more class reps for cleric, not just buffies. Also, now this page turned to a suggestion page, please do refrain from saying anything that's going to "flame" this post. Post your suggestions if you want to.
I am a cleric rep and honestly I find the FS cleric boring to play these days. And the attitude of everyone wanting buffs and heals just for themselves and telling clerics that they suck, yet not protecting the clerics, really has gotten to me. I started playing another game lately along with Rose that actually made me realize all the things I miss about the cleric class in Rose. Personally, at this point, I would say take all buffs away from the cleric and just give each class buffs that would benefit that class (for example give clerics the healing buff, int up, HP and MP up and maybe some def). Give bows accuracy, increase crit, and maybe an ap buff. Give all classes a mspd buff. Things like that. Keep the heals on the FS cleric as their contribution to the group as the DPS or tanks have their special abilities. That will then open up more possibilities for cleric builds. We could go back to being useful again and not a slave to everyone else.
The game has changed a lot and the attitudes in the game have changed a lot, not saying good or bad, just different. Many do not really play as a team using their own strengths to help each other. Most are in it for themselves these days and I don't see that changing any time soon. Buffs are screwing up the game and class balances, which has been said many times and I know, I fought it myself but I have come around to thinking it might be a good idea. I truly loved being able to help noobs out with buffs and heals, and to support my group in battles or farming, but a FS cleric now is just able to heal and buff. We really can't go farming alone, or participate that much in leveling. The old cleric could actually have an attack or two and actually farm. But to be worthwhile in PVP now and dungeons, a FS cleric has to be max charm with max heals and buffs or they get kicked out or ridiculed. I have tried a variety of FS builds with some atk skills but you lose so much for buffs and heals and def when you do that you are essentially worthless.
A bourg or mage can usually just change gear to go PVM and back to PVP. A FS cleric built for wars and Game arena games is worthless for farming or quests. And a BC is good for PVM or PVP but not for heals or buffs. Even if a FS cleric changes to PVM gear, they will have good def against mobs but still not really be worthwhile in a party or solo farming or quests. I am not saying make the FS cleric into a BC with heals. The heals and def skills and a few cleric buffs will take enough SP from the support cleric to only allow for maybe 2 attack skills. But it would give the support cleric a way to help defend themselves and farm or quest.
Just my opinion, not a majority of clerics polled or anything. Just some insight as to my thoughts about the cleric after playing healing classes in other games.
I am a cleric rep and honestly I find the FS cleric boring to play these days. And the attitude of everyone wanting buffs and heals just for themselves and telling clerics that they suck, yet not protecting the clerics, really has gotten to me. I started playing another game lately along with Rose that actually made me realize all the things I miss about the cleric class in Rose. Personally, at this point, I would say take all buffs away from the cleric and just give each class buffs that would benefit that class (for example give clerics the healing buff, int up, HP and MP up and maybe some def). Give bows accuracy, increase crit, and maybe an ap buff. Give all classes a mspd buff. Things like that. Keep the heals on the FS cleric as their contribution to the group as the DPS or tanks have their special abilities. That will then open up more possibilities for cleric builds. We could go back to being useful again and not a slave to everyone else.
The game has changed a lot and the attitudes in the game have changed a lot, not saying good or bad, just different. Many do not really play as a team using their own strengths to help each other. Most are in it for themselves these days and I don't see that changing any time soon. Buffs are screwing up the game and class balances, which has been said many times and I know, I fought it myself but I have come around to thinking it might be a good idea. I truly loved being able to help noobs out with buffs and heals, and to support my group in battles or farming, but a FS cleric now is just able to heal and buff. We really can't go farming alone, or participate that much in leveling. The old cleric could actually have an attack or two and actually farm. But to be worthwhile in PVP now and dungeons, a FS cleric has to be max charm with max heals and buffs or they get kicked out or ridiculed. I have tried a variety of FS builds with some atk skills but you lose so much for buffs and heals and def when you do that you are essentially worthless.
A bourg or mage can usually just change gear to go PVM and back to PVP. A FS cleric built for wars and Game arena games is worthless for farming or quests. And a BC is good for PVM or PVP but not for heals or buffs. Even if a FS cleric changes to PVM gear, they will have good def against mobs but still not really be worthwhile in a party or solo farming or quests. I am not saying make the FS cleric into a BC with heals. The heals and def skills and a few cleric buffs will take enough SP from the support cleric to only allow for maybe 2 attack skills. But it would give the support cleric a way to help defend themselves and farm or quest.
Just my opinion, not a majority of clerics polled or anything. Just some insight as to my thoughts about the cleric after playing healing classes in other games.
Well i do understanded what u said but also this feedback gived me another sugestion, wich i do know many ppl wont agree since it might will be useless for pvp
Making a new class named buffer, wich means, is the only class than could buffs (supporting team with buffs). but that might would be that mutch. the problem is, most of clerics waste 40 sp in buffs because is one of the most usefull things in the game, even tho im already kinda sick seeing newbies asking for buffs 24/7 in junon because they dont survive with buffs, is kinda annoying seeing them always asking for buffs, making some clerics cant do them stuffs.
now talking about this feedback, in my opinion i think wen players play with a cleric in them team, most of times they just care about buffs wich means like heals and bla bla bla are useless. lucky it isnt because if wasnt cleric they was dead in seconds. as bendersmom said, "But to be worthwhile in PVP now and dungeons, a FS cleric has to be max charm with max heals and buffs or they get kicked out or ridiculed." that's one thing than ik is true, wich make clerics def be like, squishy, even if them def is squishy, them def will be more with just this stats (max charm than int). is kinda bad seeing a cleric only usefull in CD just for buffs but than in the end, end up get killed with them mates :\. but that's just my opinion.
I've learned to not subject logical healing archetypes to ROSE, most see it as nonsense, even when you know it works from experience and the other games having tens of thousands, if not millions of players.
Actually angel, war cleric/pvp support clerics are more to only having heals most of the time. FS well they are as they are called, full support so not exactly if the buffs are gone, it will result in clerics changing to be BC instead. Just saying :v
and FINALLY something feuer and i agree to, and that's agreeing with benderson. *high five for 1st time :v* (i'll probabally get smacked)
okey so, i was discussing with miki and got also worried with angel XD anyway
another sugestion
buffing a lil cleric def, but also decreasing attack/m.def pierce in cleric
why?
buffing up the cleric def would make BC more op as they are due them m.def pierce is too high than most of low m.def players might can die in seconds. also the m.def from all the classes is low, this seems the only and best suggestion we do can give to devs.
ik most players want cleric def high, but if they want to do that we need to sacrifice a lil attack from battle cleric.
anyway, that's another sugestion, might will update 1st post with the sugestions we got here