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#1 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 02:51 AM

Is this a good skill build for an MVP RG?

http://irowiki.org/~...GCrArfqAbfkAdx1

I'm actually thinking of dropping either Vanguard Force or Exceed Break to maximize other skills such as Martyr's Reckoning, Genesis Ray, and Sacrifice. Does Vanguard Force give a considerable amount of boost or it's just fine without it? About EB, well, I just like its damage. :P

I'm also thinking King's Grace at level 1 is good enough if my only use for it is to prevent massive damage MVP skills, or should I just forget it? Haven't really tried that skill yet.

Lastly, does Full Throttle stack with Inspiration? (Just a random stuff that popped up in my mind) Will it be a good substitute to Inspiration when dealing with not-so-fearsome-yet-still-tough MVPs?

That's all I wanna know for now. Thanks in advance. :D

Edited by kazukimatsumoto, 19 April 2015 - 02:54 AM.

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#2 Hakobune

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 04:38 AM

The only thing I see that I would change is take some points of out of reflect damage and put them into pinpoint attack. Pinpoint attack is great for hitting things that have agi upped. I haven't tried out kings grace myself either, but I haven't heard good things about it.

 

Exceed break is really good if you build for crit and crit damage. You can probably 1shot a few low end MVPs with it if you can build for it.


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#3 RaohSung

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 05:15 AM

Kings Grace to Survive EQ? Nice Idea, could work out.

EB + PPA are good for MVPing if your Crit rate is good enough for EB.

PPA do have a lot of Modifiers, ATK, AGI, Ranged Mods and +&Crit Mods so even it do have 5 Seconds delay, with the Right setup you can do a lot of damge with it or make a PPA > EB Chain, Speed Pot and Repeat.

Gungnir [2] if you do not want those 2 skills but your damage wont be good.


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#4 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 08:27 AM

The only thing I see that I would change is take some points of out of reflect damage and put them into pinpoint attack. Pinpoint attack is great for hitting things that have agi upped. I haven't tried out kings grace myself either, but I haven't heard good things about it.
 
Exceed break is really good if you build for crit and crit damage. You can probably 1shot a few low end MVPs with it if you can build for it.

 

Unfortunately King's Grace requires max Reflect Shield :sob:

 

Kings Grace to Survive EQ? Nice Idea, could work out.
EB + PPA are good for MVPing if your Crit rate is good enough for EB.
PPA do have a lot of Modifiers, ATK, AGI, Ranged Mods and +&Crit Mods so even it do have 5 Seconds delay, with the Right setup you can do a lot of damge with it or make a PPA > EB Chain, Speed Pot and Repeat.
Gungnir [2] if you do not want those 2 skills but your damage wont be good.


Yup, that's what's in my mind so I am thinking if level 1 is enough (since higher levels just add %HP recovered).

I'm gonna keep EB then. That skill damage really look awesome even though I had no good equips for it yet. :D I saw several MVP RG videos that use Martyr's Reckoning when MVPs agi up. So I put 4 levels on it on the skill build above (No more skill points so I just pit 4 :heh:)
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#5 RaohSung

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 09:13 AM

Even w/o Tao, with the 175 you should die less using MR. Still MR wont do any damage to Ghost MVPs + 9%HP Draining at 193 ASPD you need to quick spam your pots to not die.

So the EB + PPA combo aint that bad.


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#6 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 09:32 AM

I guess I'll try EB + PPA (Supply-wise too).

[I really wish Sakray is up once in a while.  :heh:]


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#7 MournHaibara

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 05:00 PM

I am probably using a different way to MVP. I don't go with EB, just VP everything. use Gungnir for agi-up monsters. I am not sure if Kings Grace is effective against EQ. Kings Grace have 1 minute cool down. Unless you are confident that you can kill him after he cast first EQ, otherwise you are going to die to the 2nd EQ anyway. For most EQ monsters like Orc Hero, Baphomet, RSX, you can just tank its EQ with proper gears. There's no need for Kings Grace. For Ifrit and Valkyrie, it is not really possible for solo RG to kill them after first EQ. So you may try but I don't think Kings Grace is a good way to counter EQ. If you really want to counter EQ with skills I have heard some one said earth drive cancels EQ if you can cast at the perfect timing. I have never tried though

 

For VF (and also prestige), depends on what you want to do. Low to mid tear MVP probably don't need them, but you definite need this skill for high difficulty MVPs. In general I will recommed to get them. You don't really need genesis ray at all. I will also suggest you pick between VP or EB as damage dealing skill. I will recommend go for VP but if you want to do EB, then you probably don't need max VP. You will find Vanguard force and Prestige very useful when you deal with high difficulty MVP


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#8 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 19 April 2015 - 11:16 PM

I have read somewhere that Prestige don't stack with Inspiration so it's not included in the skills above. As of now, I have max Prestige (I wanna try every skill actually :heh: ) and it has helped me evade Mistress' JT several times. I haven't killed Mistress with my RG yet though because of her Agi Up. I'll try killing her again with 2x Mummy Gungnir + Ancient Mummy Shield maybe later.

 

About King's Grace, I just saw a video of an RG nullifying Acid Bomb in PVP, but yeah, its long cool down is the problem. Might be used only once or twice in a single battle.


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#9 Aizenath

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 12:04 AM

Hi, I get about 7100 more hp when using VF at level 167, obviously, the more hp you have the more it'll increase.

 

To make VP effective you need as close as max aspd as you can get and an overupgraded imperial spear.

I think EB build it's even more expensive as you need  crit equips to make it effective.

Zeny might be a factor too depending on how much you have/want to spend on your build. 

 

I use King's Grace to PvM and it's awesome but for MVPs, it would take perfect timing to avoid any monster skills especially EQ, I still haven't managed to block an EQ with it but that doesn't mean it's not doable.

 

The problem in using mummy + ancient mummy combo is that your are losing your alice shield, plus your damage will be reduced even more without AK cards, if you still want to use it, use AK and mummy cards instead of two mummy cards.

 

Trying all skills is a great idea as people like playing different ways and you don't know what you'll like until you try it, good luck! 


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#10 RaohSung

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:01 AM

For Ifrit and Valkyrie, it is not really possible for solo RG to kill them after first EQ. So you may try but I don't think Kings Grace is a good way to counter EQ. If you really want to counter EQ with skills I have heard some one said earth drive cancels EQ if you can cast at the perfect timing. I have never tried though

 

For VF (and also prestige), depends on what you want to do. Low to mid tear MVP probably don't need them, but you definite need this skill for high difficulty MVPs. In general I will recommed to get them. You don't really need genesis ray at all. I will also suggest you pick between VP or EB as damage dealing skill. I will recommend go for VP but if you want to do EB, then you probably don't need max VP. You will find Vanguard force and Prestige very useful when you deal with high difficulty MVP

Damn, so much wrong Informations...

1).About EQ,  It is possible to outpot it (Beer,Yggs a.o.), to tank and to evade it with Magic Mirror or with Prestige. Even with enough HP you can stand against it under Inspiration.
Earth Drive against EQ?? Can you block EQ with Land Protector / Magnetic Earth? A ground targeted Buff/Debuff like songs, Traps, Pneuma, SW???
Even if the name is "Earthquake", it ain´t Earth Property and it aint and Physical Ground targeted AOE Skill. It is a Magical-Long Ranged Neutral attack. So no, you cant time ED and smash Earthquake, would be cool though.

2.) If you go the Inspiration route, GR is already in you skill tree. It is just up to you if you use it. +It hits MVPs in AGI Up, so ocassionally it has its uses.

3.) VP as Main Damaging MVP Skill, yes for sure. We where talking about alternatives for AGI Ups w/o using the Gungnir or the Combo. Even without the Mummy Combo you still have a chance 1/4 to Hit so with enough ASPD and SP regen pots you could still Kill the MVP. But with the Right Setup and with all those Crazy Enchants you have in iRO you can make sooo much good damage with PPA and EB as an alternative if VP misses. You are alone on a MVP map or Bloody Branching? NP, grab yourself a +9 Glorious Holy Avanger and make your own Lex Aeterna for Mad PPA or Crit EB damage. Gloria Domini hits always too so why not?

4.) Okay, getting Prestige over Inspiration now with the 175 Patch should be good for MVP Guard and you can allocate a lot more Skill points into other useful skills. I give you right on this one.


 


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#11 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 03:44 AM

I guess I'll drop MR (not so sure yet :heh: ) so I can have 2 more skill points for PPA. Gloria Domini Lex + EB + PPA really looks so appealing to me. I think getting high enough crit for it won't be so difficult since Spear Quicken already gives an ample amount of crit.
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#12 RaohSung

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 04:49 AM

Test both and find your own way, which fits more into your playstyle, Skills and Stat build :)


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#13 MournHaibara

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 08:19 AM

Damn, so much wrong Informations...

1).About EQ,  It is possible to outpot it (Beer,Yggs a.o.), to tank and to evade it with Magic Mirror or with Prestige. Even with enough HP you can stand against it under Inspiration.
Earth Drive against EQ?? Can you block EQ with Land Protector / Magnetic Earth? A ground targeted Buff/Debuff like songs, Traps, Pneuma, SW???
Even if the name is "Earthquake", it ain´t Earth Property and it aint and Physical Ground targeted AOE Skill. It is a Magical-Long Ranged Neutral attack. So no, you cant time ED and smash Earthquake, would be cool though.

2.) If you go the Inspiration route, GR is already in you skill tree. It is just up to you if you use it. +It hits MVPs in AGI Up, so ocassionally it has its uses.

3.) VP as Main Damaging MVP Skill, yes for sure. We where talking about alternatives for AGI Ups w/o using the Gungnir or the Combo. Even without the Mummy Combo you still have a chance 1/4 to Hit so with enough ASPD and SP regen pots you could still Kill the MVP. But with the Right Setup and with all those Crazy Enchants you have in iRO you can make sooo much good damage with PPA and EB as an alternative if VP misses. You are alone on a MVP map or Bloody Branching? NP, grab yourself a +9 Glorious Holy Avanger and make your own Lex Aeterna for Mad PPA or Crit EB damage. Gloria Domini hits always too so why not?

4.) Okay, getting Prestige over Inspiration now with the 175 Patch should be good for MVP Guard and you can allocate a lot more Skill points into other useful skills. I give you right on this one.


 

 

1. About EQ, Please notice that I said I have heard some one said about ED against EQ and I also said I have never tried it myself. Ok I apologize if it cause any confusion to any of you.  

 

 

2. About GR

1) Only lvl 4 is required, I apologize that for some reason I thought kazu max this skill. I want to make a point that this skill is not worth to max

2) GR only works when Inspiration is on (unless you have a fellow RG and you have banding)

3) When MVP AGI up, only magical damage part will hit (Disclaimer: It is written on IRO WIKI, I never tested it. If some one want to be picky don't blame me). As MVP RG you won't put a lot of focus on Int, and Imperial Spear gives you a miserable 40 MATK, making GR damage on AGI UP MVP very low.

Conclusion. OK GR might has its uses but is very, very rarely. I can't think of any situations when it will be your best choice. (Maybe it is AOE?). I once saw a video of RG using GR against Nidhoggur, but with VP you can kill him more quickly

 

 

3. Against Agi-up MVP: Use Gungnir so you get VF/Prestige vs. EB/PPA

 

a) Let's first think about skill points. Ignore sword-man skills. At Paladin stage, you have 70 points.  Of course you want Inspiration. You also want to ride Peco-Peco, and thus you have to max Cavalier Mastery and Spear Quicken to ensure ASPD for VP (We already agree no matter in what case VP is a must right?) You also want to max Defending Aura. This is skill is so good in many circumstances. That is 69/70 used. At this point you already have to use 3rd class skills because you also want Sacrifice, at least lvl 3. Otherwise good luck finding bio4 parties to level to 175. So know you use 70/70 for 2nd class skill and you have 22/60 for 3rd class skill. For 3rd class skills, no doubt you max OB and VP. Now you have 13 points remaining

 

B) Now you make a decision. I spent the 13 points on VF and Prestige, and I can still hitting MVP-up Monsters with Gungnir. Note that Gungnir is 2 slots so you can put 2 AK cards. I won't suggest mummy combo because when you deal with high difficulty MVPs you will need Alice. In this case you hit MVP average 4 hits. You should be at around 190 ASPD. I don't remember how many VP you can cast at 190 ASPD, but definitely more than 1 hit landed in 2 secs. I don't know about EB+PPA too much , but seems EB has long cast time (4.5+2.5s, think about how many VP you can do), and I believe Gungnir is better than EB in the following case

 

1) (Disclaimer: For every single word here I haven't tried myself, they are just what I deduce from IRO WIKI)So based on IRO wiki's description , EB is normal attack+crit, so you have to focus on Sharp enchants to have high enough Crit instead of EA, probably something to reduce cast time too. This means you have to switch to different gears. You also need something to prevent cast being interrupted so your choice of gears are limited. Note that most MVPs don't AGI-UP immediately. They do it when they reach certain HP. So you have to either use EB gears from the beginning and sacrifice a lot of VP damage before MVP AGI-UP, or you use VP gears and when AGI-UP, you have to change to another set of gears. While for Gungnir, you just switch the weapon and use the proper element endow if necessary. It is easier then switching to another set of gears

 

2) If you go EB/PPA, you will have to give away Prestige at least, maybe not able to max VF too. You lose a HUGE Def bonus and chance to dodge magic. What I can tell you is that I just use my RG with GTB to tank Valkyrie Randgris for my Gene friend to kill her. I use VF, Prestige, SS3 Def bonus and still have to spam Ygg seed, Ygg berry and Green Ale in turn to keep me alive. Without Prestige you are never going to do it. The point is that you are not going to mess with Mistress all the time. You will shift to high difficulty MVPs that do Agi-up. In these cases keeping yourself alive is also important.

 

I have been using Gungnir for AGI-up MVPs all the time, the only agi-up MVPs I can't deal with are Valk and Beez. There's no problem for me to deal with other AGI-UP MVPs. I can even use this set up to solo Bangogunt before she turns to second phase.

 


Edited by MournHaibara, 20 April 2015 - 08:24 AM.

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#14 RaohSung

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 09:41 AM

You wont need EB 5, 1 is enough, this is no Joke. Getting Prestige full now + PPA5 is np.
We also talked about Solo MVP Guard as far as I remember, nothing like Devo a Genetic and stuffs ^^
But as I stated (and you too), Gungnir is mostly enough with proper endow to it those last few Hits to Kill the MVP.

If you are good in EQ switching you can get really good damages and Cast time, EB is Full Cast variable and with full buffs, foods etc. you receive really fast cast. Speed Pot, Cast, PPA > EB repeat or switch to Gungnir to finish off.
his are just suggestions, trying to show more variations on what a RG is capable of. You do not need to go 0850 irowiki Guides/Builds so I thank you for suggest something but a lot was just pure "I heard that and this but never tried something of that before". Just a Critic from me on those sentences you wrote. 

The Prestige > Inspi. for MVPing at 175, I agree with you 100%ly. As full Equiped MVP guard you arent dependet on Inspiration. And you would never be able to compete against others with it.
For instances it is good enough though.

edit:

Here is a EB 5>1 Test

 

2gxia7s.jpg


Edited by RaohSung, 20 April 2015 - 09:44 AM.

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#15 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 01:08 PM

@MournHaibara - I used a non-enchanted non-slotted Gungnir against Mistress but I only hit her few times and the damage is a lot weaker than my usual weapon, so I thought the mummy-ancient mummy combo is required. I have 91 dex as of now. I'm just curious how you manage to effectively use Gungnir without the mummy card combo.

@RaohSung - Woah, I never expected that the difference of EB 1 and 5 is not so huge since the skill description shows that EB 5 damage is 750% while 1 is 150%. If that's the case then I'll have more spare points for other skills. :)
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#16 MournHaibara

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:11 PM

@MournHaibara - I used a non-enchanted non-slotted Gungnir against Mistress but I only hit her few times and the damage is a lot weaker than my usual weapon, so I thought the mummy-ancient mummy combo is required. I have 91 dex as of now. I'm just curious how you manage to effectively use Gungnir without the mummy card combo.

@RaohSung - Woah, I never expected that the difference of EB 1 and 5 is not so huge since the skill description shows that EB 5 damage is 750% while 1 is 150%. If that's the case then I'll have more spare points for other skills. :)

 

I will say get 2 +9 Gungnir [2] with EA enchants, put AK+Mummy for one, use it for mummy combo; put 2 AK for the other, use it when you want to use other shield cards. Gungnir itself gives 25% perfect hit. If you use it with mummy combo it gives 45% perfect hit in total. If you don't have any trouble tanking the MVP, use mummy combo. (With wind armor you shouldn't have problem tanking Mistress.) If you feel some reduction shield card is needed, then use Gungnir only.

 

So in the case when you are only using Gungnir, you are expecting to do around 20% of your original damage (1/4 hit, and lose like 30% VP damage bonus from Imperial but gain an additional AK card). Also make sure you use earth conversion scroll. Gungnir is default wind property and so is Mistress.


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#17 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 02:37 PM

Thanks. :) I found Piety buff good enough for tanking Mistress' JT so I'll go with the mummy combo.

EDIT: How much is your Dex, by the way? Is 100 enough? Will well-chewed pencil help too?

I don't have much experience with MVPing honestly (My first MVP experience was Phreeoni, just last February, when my RG is still 99. Luckily no one was guarding his tomb back then. :heh: ). It's difficult to find MVPs alive on their spawn maps so I can only access them thru ET. I hope I can finally move to a higher floor rather than being stuck at 10th :heh:

Edited by kazukimatsumoto, 20 April 2015 - 02:40 PM.

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#18 MournHaibara

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 10:53 PM

Thanks. :) I found Piety buff good enough for tanking Mistress' JT so I'll go with the mummy combo.

EDIT: How much is your Dex, by the way? Is 100 enough? Will well-chewed pencil help too?

I don't have much experience with MVPing honestly (My first MVP experience was Phreeoni, just last February, when my RG is still 99. Luckily no one was guarding his tomb back then. :heh: ). It's difficult to find MVPs alive on their spawn maps so I can only access them thru ET. I hope I can finally move to a higher floor rather than being stuck at 10th :heh:

 

I get Base Dex at 100 and total like 120. I think my Hit is like 480ish and I have no problem hitting most non-agi up MVPs, as VP gives 30 hit bonus. some MVPs requires 540+ Hit to hit 100%, like Ifrit and Buwaya. You might miss a few but you can definitely hit 100% after Inspiration. Don't even think of being able to hit agi-up MVP by stacking Dex. This is barely possible even with Phreeoni card.

 

I have never tried RG solo ET. I always go with my friends. One big problem is that you don't have FCP to protect you from divest/break gears. So you have to either use non-breakable gears or prey for good luck. Anyway MVPs before 20 are easy to deal with. Drake at 20 is the first problem. His waterball deals very high damage that can't be countered by piety. He also agi-up. I will suggest get a water property card (I forgot which card it is) on Valkyrie Armor, as Drake also breaks armor. You might also need Alice shield. His waterball really hurts. Then you can use gungnir, or EB, or whatever people suggest here with Aspresio scroll to deal with it.

 

Once you can deal with MVP water ball and agi-up you might be able to proceed to 39, as White Lady at 30 and TG at 35 are all these type of MVPs. Note that TG break weapon. Samurai Spectre at 40 is another problem. You might want to deal with it after you are 150. His hell judgement and Physical attack after power-up and quicken really hurts. He also agi-up and break gears


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#19 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 03:19 AM

I'm planning to raise my dex to 100 as well after i get 120 str.

I do have alt alchemists for FCP. I might not solo ET with my RG anymore on the next weeks though since our guild leader is back.:D

I really have to get myself elemental armors then rather than just relying with Piety. I had experienced a bloody branched Drake and a Samurai Spectre one-hit me. :heh: I'm actually at level 150. My equip are just not good enough yet but starting to work on it. :heh:
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#20 MoyuZ777

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Posted 21 April 2015 - 05:19 AM

The beauty of an RG is that you can kill mvps that other classes can't including Genes. There is some really good gene that can still kill those hard mvps but they got to use tokens where RG don't need to.
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#21 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 12:26 AM

I tried to kill Hardrock Mammoth before maintenance and whenever I have reduced its HP to lower than 20%, it would hit me with a non-stop waterball and made the magic evade effect of Prestige ineffective. (He's not technically an MVP though) I guess I have to learn more about this class. But I really enjoy it even though I can't kill most MVPs yet. :heh:

My decision as of now, I would only drop Martyr's Reckoning and add the 2 Pally points to Sacrifice and the 2 RG points to PPA. Thanks for all the advice I get here. ^^
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#22 MoyuZ777

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 09:59 AM

Get a water armor and marse card and it will hit you for very little
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#23 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 12:15 PM

This is where the Piety buff is no longer effective. :heh: Does a water armor, marse, and coldproof pot make me water level 3?

I'll get myself that armor then later this week. I just got enough zeny for a wakwak card and an unfrozen wind armor for bio4. Getting stuff 1 by 1. :heh:
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#24 kasshin

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 01:03 PM

You can stack marse, coldproof, valk shield for a total of 30% + 20% + 20% = 70% water resist. If that's not enough you can use other water resists like leaf cat, waterdrop brooch, KBC, etc.

If you stack water armor on top of that note that that is a multiplying calculation and not addition. So if you are at -70% resist from percents, the -75% elemental resistance from water armor multiplies on top of that. So you'd be taking 0.3 x 0.25 damage, which is 0.075 (7.5%) damage.
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#25 kazukimatsumoto

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Posted 23 April 2015 - 01:08 PM

I see. Nice info. Thanks ^^
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