8 replies to this topic

[Shaddieh]

*****EDIT*****

Spears, as a weapon are much faster and have superior range compared to Axes and 2h Swords so we could start from there.

 

But before that, cast queuing should be fixed so that you won't just stand idle if you pressed your hot keys too fast 

 

I don't know if the game engine could do this but maybe if [case 1: the spear attack speed passives could also speed up the [wind-up animation]/[cast time] of skills] or better yet, [case 2: just make it so that the cast time/animation speed is equal to basic attack speed with a minimum of [fast+1] just in case attack speed drops to the negative with each skill having specific atk spd modifiers]. The skills will still have static cooldowns to keep them in check. Skill burst can be applied much faster but still weak. 

 

Example

[case 1]: Cast Speed unaffected by Atk Spd Debuff, weaker at higher attack speeds

Spear Speed/[Spear Mastery Attack Speed] - attack speed/cast speed +5/10/15/20/25%

Spear Strike- cast speed: fast+3** + X** (+5/10/15/20/25/30/35/40/45/50%)

Fire/Wind/Ice Sweep- cast speed: fast+1** + Y**(+5/10/.../45/50%)

etc.

**-balance levers

 

[case 2]: More Volatile

Spear Speed/Spear Mastery Attack Speed - Same

Spear Strike- cast speed: fast+3** + X** + Aspd(value on stat window)

etc..

 

[case 3]: Mixed?

Spear Speed/Spear Mastery Attack Speed - Aspd + 5/10/15/20/25% Cspd + 2.5/5/7.5/10/12.5 (additional effect: Receive 50% of Aspd as Cspd)

Spear Strike - cast speed: fast+3** + X** + 2.5/5/7.5/10/12.5/15/17.5/20/22.5/25 + (50/100%)Aspd

etc.

 

Also remove AoE passives and fix the AoEs of Sweeps and dances to 8~15

 

New Passive: Spear Curse/Spear Mastery: Curse - Basic attacks marks target with curse for 2.5 seconds which refreshes on each attack , @ 5 marks the next damaging spell will consume all marks and increase the effect of the debuff applied by the damaging skill on the marked target by 5/10/15/20/25/30/35/40/50%** (Debuff Boost) (mark is consumed even if the triggering skill does not have a debuff)~~~~Stronger Debuffs Overwrites weaker ones right???

extra passive on Spear Mastery:Curse - every 9/8/7/6/5** Spell Casts that damages hostile Targets, Randomly Remove 1 Debuff on Self (spell counter lasts 3** seconds, refreshes on gaining stack and will reset to 0 if no enemy is damaged by a skill after 3 seconds)

 

*******

Reduce Duration of all debuffs on spear skills to a Maximum of 7** seconds

 

Spear Strike applies 1 stack of wounded per skill hit stacks 5 times lasts 5 seconds, refreshes on stacks 

Raging Spear applies Mspd Debuff

Change Ice Sweep Debuff from Mspd to Aspd

change the range of all single target skills to 6m

 

************** 

Dance of Flames applies buff which increases Hp Regeneration by 1 every 18/16/14/12/10 Str for 12 seconds can stack twice

Dance of Wind applies buff which increases Dodge by 50/100/150/200/250 for 12 seconds can stack twice????

Dance of Ice Applies buff which increases Def by 1/2/3/4/5% for 12 seconds can stack twice???? 

 

**************

 

Change Spear Deflection Stance to something else... maybe an Mspd passive like the one that caused the massive skill revamp in the first place...

 

still no CC on the kit 

 

 

*****ORIGINAL POST*******

I Propose changing the debuffs on Ice Sweep from Movespeed to Attack Speed

 

Add a Movespeed Debuff on Spear Strike

Add a Critical/Accuracy Debuff on Raging Spear

 

Increase the Range of Spear Strike, Piercing Stab, Raging Spear, Longinus Strike to be 6M

 

 

 

 

this ones are less likely to happen but i'll just put it here

 

Remove AoE increasing Passives from soldier and champ tree

Normalize Sweeps and Dances to 10M AoE 

 

Change Spear Deflection Stance to Def/Mdef/Dodge increase by 15%+30 @ lvl 5

 

Add new Passive for Spears

Soldier:

Spear Mastery: Deflection - Increases Def/Mdef/Dodge by 15%+30 @ lvl 5

Champ:

Relax: HP recovery +10/+2 per 20 Str // MP recovery +10/+2 per 20 Cha @ lvl 5

Edited by Shaddieh, 22 April 2015 - 11:24 PM.

[DoubleRose]

I'd like to see more of a reason to use the single target spear spells.  With the attack speed passives and long cast time on the spells they just don't seem worth using.

[Feuer]

The only reason you go single target on a spear is to troll katar raiders. even then soon as they realize you're dodge/accu they'll just put accu/crit and toast you. 

[DoubleRose]

The only reason you go single target on a spear is to troll katar raiders. even then soon as they realize you're dodge/accu they'll just put accu/crit and toast you. 

 

Is deflection stance not good? It reduces enemy dps to switch to an accu set

[Feuer]

No, deflection stance is not good unless you pump DEX, because it only works on your BASE dodge, not your EQ. Even substats don't benefit greatly from it. 

So essentially, in order to dodge, you need to weaken your own AP, and your enemy needs to weaken their AP, to increase their Accu, so essentially it completely 0's out, it won't ever provide a good enough benefit with Champs base dodge being such trash.

I'd already made several suggestions to fix that passive or change it to something much more fitting for the class + functional over-all but it was thoroughly ignored because 90% of Champs are Swords or Axe. And I was the most active Champ rep, when I left noone picked up the ball. 

Edited by Feuer, 22 April 2015 - 03:28 AM.

[DoubleRose]

No, deflection stance is not good unless you pump DEX, because it only works on your BASE dodge, not your EQ. Even substats don't benefit greatly from it. 

So essentially, in order to dodge, you need to weaken your own AP, and your enemy needs to weaken their AP, to increase their Accu, so essentially it completely 0's out, it won't ever provide a good enough benefit with Champs base dodge being such trash.

I'd already made several suggestions to fix that passive or change it to something much more fitting for the class + functional over-all but it was thoroughly ignored because 90% of Champs are Swords or Axe. And I was the most active Champ rep, when I left noone picked up the ball. 

 

The spear tree doesn't scale with itself. Sword passives scale with each other, but it's easier to just compare two of the types so I'll talk about axe.

Axes get crit chance, crit damage, and enhanced damage which all work together. Spear gets attack speed and aoe range, two stats which cannot be utilized at the same time. Those axe skills apply to the single target and aoe spells. The aoe range and attack speed for spear are useless for the single target spear spells.

[Feuer]

Well technically the Aspeed does, as it allows you to slip a melee strike in between single target cast's and if you hit the CD lockout, you have good melee support to keep your DPS up, however you've completely re-stated what I wrote in the Rep sub-forum some time ago.

 

AoE Range = Doesn't Affect Single Target

Aspeed = Doesn't Affect AoE's

Dodge = Wtf....

 

Essentially, what that does is split the classes capability by 50%. They're only 50% effective in AoE's, and 50% effective in Melee or Single Target.

While Swords

Accu + Pierce + Skill Power works for both Single Target + AoE's

&

Crit Chance + Crit Damage + Enhance Damage works for both Single Target + AoE's. 

I broke it down further, into CD time's for Skills, Number of Skills and calculated the max figures for skill use damage output in both Single Target + AoE's and the spear was 3rd in both fields. 

And when it came to tanking, they tied for 1st with Axes from a base point, but ultimately Axe won the tank war once you configured CHA as a factor. [mixed with the 30% absorb]. 

 

If you want to further the discussion to a proposal, I'd be game for hearing your ideas. 

Edited by Feuer, 22 April 2015 - 08:50 AM.

[DoubleRose]

I wasn't using the forums when the class rep thing happened. I'm often busy with college and have been max level for years since I started Rose right when it began, so I play infrequently. When did axes get the absorption? I noticed that a week ago and don't remember it being there.

 

I don't think spears should be a sort of compromise class. Swords and Axes having so many AoE attacks took away the spear identity, so something has to change.  It's also notable that sword and axe have ranged attacks while spear does not. Spears are in the middle of the enemy, either focusing down one enemy or spinning in the middle of the enemy team. Given that, they need a skill that links single target spells, Aoe, and regular attacks.

 

Spear Master

Type: Passive

All spells have a 8/16/24/32/40% chance to apply Spear Master. Spearmaster increases attack speed by 25% and gives 25% absorb on your next three normal attacks.  This effect ends after 5 seconds if not used.

 

 

 

[Shaddieh]

Edited OP.. Spears need to have an identity...