149 replies to this topic

[Starkespada1]

give sorcs 400% Cd cap k thnx bye

[Homurasan]

"[...] for the age of oppression is just about done."

This was the song calling for a Dragonborn to save the people of Skyrim ; now I'd call for a dev' to NOT let this dark age be once again. Don't let Dragoons become as OP as they were before their nerfs.

[sigeel]

"[...] for the age of oppression is just about done."

This was the song calling for a Dragonborn to save the people of Skyrim ; now I'd call for a dev' to NOT let this dark age be once again. Don't let Dragoons become as OP as they were before their nerfs.

 

same goes for shadow walkers. I dont mind raising the dodge and aim, but i do not want to see the return of unbalanced/unbeatable shadow walkers again. 

 

In my opinion all those dodge/aim/block/stun/heal effects should be removed in pvp. play it raw and try to dodge it yourself, not rely on a stat. 

[sigeel]

bleh, for some reason it the quote doesent work...

pls mod remove this one :/ 

Edited by sigeel, 01 May 2015 - 02:13 PM.

[Homurasan]

Why would you try to dodge when you're a Sorcerer with a Mana shield and an instant casting of a skill completely interrupting ground combos (Emblem of Fire) ? è_é

Well, given your feet still are touching the ground, which only happens against a few classes.

 

And I'm totally positive on the fact that the critical damage of Sorcerers should go up a little, since we can't make use of elements effectively and all that. Well I'm not playing PvP at all, but it'd still be super-useful !

[Coolsam]

I'm all for a sorcerer buff. They have one element benefitting skill and it's unreliable except for a nuke on frozen targets.

[StormHaven]

Tbh as long as elements exist in pvp in their current form all balance discussion of skills is useless and pointless.

[noxis]

Tbh as long as elements exist in pvp in their current form all balance discussion of skills is useless and pointless.

 

i often find that people who are against changes are ones to have never given it a shot in the first place.

 

elements are obviously there regardless of our opinions, and a lot of end gamers would argue that it is balanced so long as pos set is in the equation. 

 

from what i've gathered, elements are an additional thrill factor for players that is meant to be stacked, much like everything else in the game. pre-elements, anyone could tank. even a sentinel could tank. we all remember that one. and the only ones who could do damage were those who stacked critical damage % to the sky, sacrificing everything else in the process.

 

i won't agree that elements in their current form is irrelevant in the discussion, since the math is in the equation and it makes perfect sense. there is a balance in it which is exemplified in the protector of stars sets.

 

those who realized this take advantage of it. when a game breaking patch comes out, the ones who adapt and adjust are the ones looking for the path set by game developers. those who fail to adjust are the ones who quit and complain. however, that isn't to say that those who complain have no ground for their objections, but i believe in order to achieve that you must take a different stance than just an 'at a glance' attempt at an update.

 

elements and their resistance gap with no POS set in the equation needs some tweaking but starting off by correcting some skill balance issues is never a wrong way to start. 

Edited by noxis, 01 May 2015 - 03:54 PM.

[MrBonBonCat]

oh so you can make monster stop jumping meow?

try check alex mob meow.

those jumping skill makes them teleported sometime meow

[StormHaven]

i often find that people who are against changes are ones to have never given it a shot in the first place.

 

elements are obviously there regardless of our opinions, and a lot of end gamers would argue that it is balanced so long as pos set is in the equation. 

 

from what i've gathered, elements are an additional thrill factor for players that is meant to be stacked, much like everything else in the game. pre-elements, anyone could tank. even a sentinel could tank. we all remember that one. and the only ones who could do damage were those who stacked critical damage % to the sky, sacrificing everything else in the process.

 

i won't agree that elements in their current form is irrelevant in the discussion, since the math is in the equation and it makes perfect sense. there is a balance in it which is exemplified in the protector of stars sets.

 

those who realized this take advantage of it. when a game breaking patch comes out, the ones who adapt and adjust are the ones looking for the path set by game developers. those who fail to adjust are the ones who quit and complain. however, that isn't to say that those who complain have no ground for their objections, but i believe in order to achieve that you must take a different stance than just an 'at a glance' attempt at an update.

 

elements and their resistance gap with no POS set in the equation needs some tweaking but starting off by correcting some skill balance issues is never a wrong way to start. 

 

Elements were never actually supposed to have an effect in PvP, but due to Gravity's stellar testing/dev team they did work in pvp and they never bothered fixing it.  That being said everyone saw what happened when everything that could counter elements was removed(Evade,Block,Large HP pools).

 

and imo right now the game is the closest to balanced as it's ever been outside Healing,Elements, and Dragonkin(both classes have way to many bugs/incorrectly working skills)
 

[Coolsam]

Well with block/aim/evade changes, without elements there is still the wonky atk/def ratio and the fact that some classes will end up hitting dirt low in PvP compared to their foe on equal gear level. Remove elements and an invoker's power goes straight to the gutter even with 25-30k Magic Attack. However a Destroyer could still pop the 5k+ crits with Sniping on 30k Physical Attack and some decent Critical Damage.

 

Elements is a lazy-man's check to counter pre-PoS hyper geared players. Once PoS is in the equation, yes the shaved damage is noticeable and helps greatly. Storm is right in the regard that aside from Dragonkin issues, healing in some PvP modes, and a rework to the Element system we could hit PvP balance but the gear issue well; "Cats go meow, Dogs go bark, the MMO player goes 'The PvP is unbalanced.'"-Zero Punctuation. That gear-check for PvP will always exist and the fact that official events give Ins and methods to obtain the same level of gear with little to no IM is amazing.

 

WarpPortal is right now climbing slowly but surely into more capable levels of fixes and such. Although no definite progress is allowed to be said about the developmental takeover, I'm sure Gravity US will do some things right when they have control of the development of Dragon Saga. It's actually keeping hopes high among players and that is definitely something important to consider.

 

Dragoon revert on nerfs I was skeptical (Outside PvP I approved) but in the end, skill shuts the complaints up. Some practice on the old Dragoons and cooldown memorization and people will be fine. As for Savages, they have their early-game PvE power and their ground combos back and interest in the class is climbing again.

[noxis]

Elements were never actually supposed to have an effect in PvP, but due to Gravity's stellar testing/dev team they did work in pvp and they never bothered fixing it. That being said everyone saw what happened when everything that could counter elements was removed(Evade,Block,Large HP pools).

and imo right now the game is the closest to balanced as it's ever been outside Healing,Elements, and Dragonkin(both classes have way to many bugs/incorrectly working skills)

i can't claim whether elements were intended for pvp or not, but as of the galaxia update and the introduction of POS I can safely assume that it is here to stay in the pvp setting.

whether or not it was intended specifically for pve is irrelevant with the addition of POS. Element resistance is moot in pve with pdef and mdef taking majority of damage reduction.

element attacks are not wielded by mobs, however certain ones hold resistances. So having the resistance bonuses on pos specifically for pve intentions is a wild claim. i don't believe developers had the intention that the bonuses for the set were to be taken advantage of in a pve setting.

regardless of those facts concerning elements and pvp, I believe we need a few more suggestions concerning skills and balances.

---

concerning skills; it's hard to make suggestions without prior knowledge of the objective from our dev team.

if some insight is provided as to what direction they want to take then I believe we can get the ball rolling.

Edited by noxis, 01 May 2015 - 05:53 PM.

[StormHaven]

Well with block/aim/evade changes, without elements there is still the wonky atk/def ratio and the fact that some classes will end up hitting dirt low in PvP compared to their foe on equal gear level. Remove elements and an invoker's power goes straight to the gutter even with 25-30k Magic Attack. However a Destroyer could still pop the 5k+ crits with Sniping on 30k Physical Attack and some decent Critical Damage.

 

 

Invokers dealt low damage because they had heals. Same with for warmages and pallies(until their attack buff and everyone else getting their attacks nerf). Generally the more healing+defensive capabilities the class had the weaker offensive they were.

 

@Noxis, the element system was never fully finished so what we have no is a broken system that we the players have to deal with till it's actually fixed. Unfortunately there's a lot balance wise that could out of wack if you tweak skills before tweaking elements. 

[ivey558]

just flow with the meta and change as you go, tbh dragon saga is one of the cheapest games i've played up to date compared to the ones i've played before (aka. a new module/complete re-balance of classes every 3 - 4 months). A simple balance would be to adjust the ratio of element resist vs attack, but there might be other factors in which this method would not solve the issue of "class balancing" on its own.

[zirothos]

PVP: as an invoker I think the magnet is a bit to OP in PVP many player think so too. Just put a higher CD only for PVP (I don’t know if you can do that two separate cool down. One for PVP and one for pve. That all for the PVP I know too much about PVP skill so I won’t talk too much about it

 

 

 

PVE: for the PVE there some change to do with the invoker for sure and they have some useless skill: like sanctuary and Arc Sanctuary. I never understood the point of those weak healing spell

 

Sanctuary = super-duper small healing zone. This one is more a PVP skill (low LV PVP) cause it the only skill that heal other member so I don’t know what to think of it. But in pve this skill has no use.

Arc Sanctuary = use a MP potion you will get more MP in less time. If you want this skill to be useful you need to put it in % regeneration and not flat. Like 2/3/4/5/6% (base on the hero MP not the caster) regen every 3 sec, not 50/100/150/200/250. Even the savage have a better Mana regen group skill. And we invoker supposed to be support hero.

 

Chain lighting: I don’t know if any one of you knows the old system of this spell was like. If you don’t know I will tell you, if you already know I want to ask you if you prefer the new version or the old one. Cause for me the old one was way better.

 

Old version: it was a real chain skill pass to one monster to another just like a real chain. If you have a line of 10 monster the skill was able to reach the monster like   1------2------3------4------5-----6 etc.

 

New version: it a spider chain lighting, it touch the first monster and make a web chain to monster close to it like a star.

 

The version I want to have: I stronger spell with a real CD like rain of fire. Not an MP cost by sec, I don’t say I don’t like the skill. Because I love it for PVE Gold Farm for SSS but it’s a weak spell.

 

 

Last thing. It’s the double shot, is there a possibility to a  passive for PVE and Active for PVP?

Edited by zirothos, 01 May 2015 - 07:14 PM.

[noxis]

@Noxis, the element system was never fully finished so what we have no is a broken system that we the players have to deal with till it's actually fixed. Unfortunately there's a lot balance wise that could out of wack if you tweak skills before tweaking elements.

i disagree. though i wouldn't mind some examples.

[Coolsam]

i disagree. though i wouldn't mind some examples.

 

It's essentially certain skills with the maximum benefit from elements itself if I understand his logic correctly. Tweaking those when elements are the blunt of their damage could lead to problems when elements are fixed later down the line.

[noxis]

It's essentially certain skills with the maximum benefit from elements itself if I understand his logic correctly. Tweaking those when elements are the blunt of their damage could lead to problems when elements are fixed later down the line.

most notably, buffs and passives. not that they were ever really an issue. they exist for a reason. i certainly don't mind overlords reaching 75k+ pattk with bloody roar. they can even keep this active in pvp with up capsules, cakes, and heals. in addition, I believe they should revert the stumblebum skill back to the way I use to be.

buffs and passives are just that, however. they are meant to supplement the lack of or increase the effect of, while substantial ones are a double edged sword. in many cases this game doesn't make it easy for any one person to achieve the full potential of such, but there is that option for those who seek to maximize their potential.

nevertheless, skill reevaluation and proposed fixes should still be of concern at this point in the game and i am for it.

i do find it quite entertaining that the same people that have been crying for fixes are against it when it actually begins.

Edited by noxis, 01 May 2015 - 08:51 PM.

[Rainnowx]

Spoiler

No love for ninjas.

 

At the moment we're only able to fix stuff that is based on the database. Changes of the client itself are not possible at the moment and many things are "hardcoded". And we're still in the taking over process, you know. It's a long way to go with only little tiny steps. So please stay patient. We assure you we do our best. Thank you!

-----------------------------------------

It is "build-in" into the client sourcecode and not changable via the database.

 

Well, there's a huge difference between altering a Skill's "effects/informations" and restoring a former status system.

 

 

 

ima suggest make something with aim / evade rate, right now are useless. aim rate should increase crit rate.. and the limit of evade should be increased. BUCK.

 

We can't do anything about this at the moment. But we will take this into account when the taking over process is finished and such changes are possible.

 

 

I wouldn't doubt about whether it's possible or not but, can the former Aim/Ddg./CRate/CDmg. system even be restored?

I mean, GravityK's crew changed the system; so as for the former one, if it hasn't even been "deleted" since then...

[sean718]

I see people are complaining about twin's weave skill again. Simple solution; increase the cool down to prevent spamming.

 

This wouldn't take anything away from them but reduce spam and cause players to fight with their heads a little more. The cool down amount on both could be increased by a 1-3 seconds.

 

 

 

Last thing. It’s the double shot, is there a possibility to a  passive for PVE and Active for PVP?

 

This cannot and probably would not be done for obvious reasons similar to the removal of manual F1 missions. Everything else I agree with though.

 

I'm sure the community would be elated to see a CD limit increase for sorcerers. 400% isn't nearly enough. I would suggest a 500%+ CD cap for Sorcerers. Pre CD cap, 700%+ was normal to see on a sorcerer and even then their dps wasn't amazing. This is not groundbreaking or game breaking in any sense.

 

 

The skill "Stumblebum" should be reverted. If not, then the stun rate can be increased by 25% across the board which would be equal to 75% stun rate at level 1, and 84% at max level (10). There was nothing wrong with the skill in the first place. It had cast time which allowed for easy interruptions by opponents and was arguably the only reliable catch skill Overlords had.

 

The skill "Thunder Break" should have it's flinching effect back but limited to a maximum of 3 targets at max level instead of the current 10 target maximum. The solution for this skill wasn't to remove the flinching effect which rendered it useless, it was to limit the number of targets that it affected to both be useful and not overpowered in large scale battles.

 

 

[Coolsam]

Cooldown increase alone on weaving would be very good.

Sorcerers need that power. Even at 800% CD vs 25k defense it wasn't extremely high damage. As it is now unless you use missiles and X spam Sorcs can't do anything for damage.

Stumblebum nerds a revert. But having a minimum 65% catch rate at level 1, leveling up to 80% at level 10 is good enough. The stun duration is low, evade and attack debuff aren't ground breaking and it's very reliable. 54% at 5/5 is okay for competitive PvP but not great.

Thunderbreak is basically a lag trigger as it is now. Reducing the targets and bringing back the flinching makes it helpful to Sorcerers 1v1 issue.

Edited by Coolsam, 02 May 2015 - 07:33 AM.

[Homurasan]

Only things I've ever used Thunderbreak for : keeping a combo counter running, and annoy people in the Port of Winds with the big clouds. I guess a flinching effect would make it useful in many more ways than these two.

[zirothos]

I was wondering if they can add a skip text mode for elga/paris and all other Zone like that cause something they are super long

 

[sigeel]

I was wondering if they can add a skip text mode for elga/paris and all other Zone like that cause something they are super long

yes! this !

 

the other zone is in ragnarok dungeon where you have to look at zombies coming out every time and its a solid 10- 12 sec wait time, and then boss at the end.

 

would be cool if they did something with that groggy state which makes the boss invulnerable for a few seconds while the animation is going (i miss the old times when you could just kill the boss without having to wait for him to "wake up"<_<  or to fix the re-spawn of enemies who upon re-spawn cannot be damaged for a few seconds, again until they "wake up" properly. this is really annoying and it only stretches out amount of time needed to kill something. feels like its lag, but it's not.. 

Edited by sigeel, 02 May 2015 - 08:51 AM.

[zirothos]

yea there many small thing like that to be fix and make the game a better place before changing big stuff