55 replies to this topic

[5143121023173906760]

Its unfair but, life is unfair so oh well.

Fair...That's such a mean word made of illusion and liar.

[drops1]

Your complaining is kinda funny.

Does the X-Spammer can farm arcade mode easy ? No.
Is that unfair ? Well, that depends on how you see this, but notice that no one is complaining about that.

 

we are here in this forum to discuss (BIG/small)  issues and solve the issues if possible for us all to enjoy the game .. GETS?

Edited by drops1, 27 May 2015 - 02:57 PM.

[ScrambledCraig]

Fair...That's such a mean word made of illusion and liar.

 

With a name like that, i feel you are a troll

[drops1]

"The solution is to reduce Elga's HP, defense or whatever..." you wrote ; wouldn't it be a nerf, as it already was the case when devs found it too hard for people to kill Elga, and thus drastically reduced its defensive stats ?

You're right, I OBVIOUSLY didn't get it. Like, people must be laughing out loud thinking I take a reducing of overall HP and surviving capabilities as a nerf, whereas it's a huge buff.

Probably you don't even understand what you're writing yourself, else you would at least look like you are careful with how you're expressing yourself about "letting every class be able to kill the game's last boss alone".

 

 

Now, let's stop joking. Since it indeed would be a nerf... then how in freaking hell can that not be your point ?! Are you even reading ?

If you want to kill Elga solo, just abuse of the current, terrible balance letting some classes do so, but stop thinking this game has to become easier than it already is !

 

WARLOCK

 

SAVAGE

 

Can we do this here?? 

[SoulSight]

Your complaining is kinda funny.

Does the X-Spammer can farm arcade mode easy ? No.
Is that unfair ? Well, that depends on how you see this, but notice that no one is complaining about that.

Arcade mode is not only choice. Let's say that you are alone and not selling IM, possibly you can create another character to go arcade mode. You can even compete daily reward from arcade easier, there is nobody choose X-spammer class to compete that reward.

Not only arcade mode, you can even go Magma dungeon or Akia or Kundara dungeon or Red fox delta or VanCliff or Drakos and sell your products! YOU CAN COMPLETELY GO ALONE AND FARM! You don't just choose it!

If you are not alone, you can invite your friends, guildmates or even go with strangers to join farming arcade mode.

And everyone can do it!

[mikaduy]

Just fyi, those videos were made before they capped CD. 10 minutes to solo the last boss dgn with a WM...If you want to solo elga like that, the only thing you should ask for is to uncap cd, but of course, that will most likely not happen. 

For those x-spammers comments, you guys do realize you can still get a triple s with invokers/summoners right? It's doable, just takes time.

Forum just turned to nothing but complaints and asking for the game to get easier than it already is. I rather have the producer fix bugs and come out with more contents for end gamers because I(and prob many others) feel like this game is stuck in one place after killing elga. Our choices- farm 6*s and farm gold. Changing a few things on classes, or having an event isn't going to change anything(not major at least). I understand that the staffs are trying to make the game better, but how can they when we're complaining left to right about small things. Those videos were from the past, leave it there. I once had a lvl 60 savage with almost 1k cd before they capped it. Suck it up and live with it. You think your class is too weak? Choose a different class. 

[Infin1te]

Just fyi, those videos were made before they capped CD. 10 minutes to solo the last boss dgn with a WM...If you want to solo elga like that, the only thing you should ask for is to uncap cd, but of course, that will most likely not happen. 

For those x-spammers comments, you guys do realize you can still get a triple s with invokers/summoners right? It's doable, just takes time.

Forum just turned to nothing but complaints and asking for the game to get easier than it already is. I rather have the producer fix bugs and come out with more contents for end gamers because I(and prob many others) feel like this game is stuck in one place after killing elga. Our choices- farm 6*s and farm gold. Changing a few things on classes, or having an event isn't going to change anything(not major at least). I understand that the staffs are trying to make the game better, but how can they when we're complaining left to right about small things. Those videos were from the past, leave it there. I once had a lvl 60 savage with almost 1k cd before they capped it. Suck it up and live with it. You think your class is too weak? Choose a different class. 

 

Possibly along with uncapped CR. That sorcerer does really high CD damage and does more crits than a maxed 40% final CR character in our current game.

[UraharaStore]

If time is rised, still unfair that the X-spammer classes will have more time to farm materials...fair? nope!

How about u stack a destroyer and x-spam the elga boxes? LOL I will give u 999 bloodies 3 6* and 200k if u can kill the boxes urself.

[UraharaStore]

Arcade mode is not only choice. Let's say that you are alone and not selling IM, possibly you can create another character to go arcade mode. You can even compete daily reward from arcade easier, there is nobody choose X-spammer class to compete that reward.

Not only arcade mode, you can even go Magma dungeon or Akia or Kundara dungeon or Red fox delta or VanCliff or Drakos and sell your products! YOU CAN COMPLETELY GO ALONE AND FARM! You don't just choose it!

If you are not alone, you can invite your friends, guildmates or even go with strangers to join farming arcade mode.

And everyone can do it!

And u have a lot of ridiculous details or ideas in this whole crap lol. Just saying

[SoulSight]

And u have a lot of ridiculous details or ideas in this whole crap lol. Just saying

Oh why don't you just try to solo by Pally in Black Claw Nest? (:|

[LinkKirby]

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that every class needs to be able to do everything in the game equally well. If every class could do PvP, PvE, arcade mode, and F7 equally fast and equally well, what would be the point? I'm sorry that your class can't kill bosses as fast as another class can. If you wanted to farm bloody crystals quickly, you wouldn't go in by yourself no matter what class you are.

[SoulSight]

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that every class needs to be able to do everything in the game equally well. If every class could do PvP, PvE, arcade mode, and F7 equally fast and equally well, what would be the point? I'm sorry that your class can't kill bosses as fast as another class can. If you wanted to farm bloody crystals quickly, you wouldn't go in by yourself no matter what class you are.

I don't see any weak points from earth master and destroyer at pve and pvp. What's the point here?

[ohsnap]

I'm not sure where you guys got the idea that every class needs to be able to do everything in the game equally well. If every class could do PvP, PvE, arcade mode, and F7 equally fast and equally well, what would be the point? I'm sorry that your class can't kill bosses as fast as another class can. If you wanted to farm bloody crystals quickly, you wouldn't go in by yourself no matter what class you are.

The point is class balance which has always been lackluster in this game. Every time a change is introduced it has always been a nerf to one class in an attempt to balance it out with the other classes instead of buffing the weaker class to balance things out. This game honestly leans more towards pvp than pve and like any other mmo ideally you want a game where you can play every or any class without the need to think about one class being more overpowered than the others. Why spend so much time and money on a class that can is only sufficient on one thing when you can roll a class that's able to do EVERYTHING well. Dragon Saga has 10 classes but why is 70% of the population playing 3 out of 10 of those classes. That's why in an ideal world every class should be able to do everything in the game equally well. 

[5143121023173906760]

If you are not alone, you can invite your friends, guildmates or even go with strangers to join farming arcade mode.
And everyone can do it!

That's the same thing for Elga. Other class can party and farm it easy.

[StormHaven]

The point is class balance which has always been lackluster in this game. Every time a change is introduced it has always been a nerf to one class in an attempt to balance it out with the other classes instead of buffing the weaker class to balance things out.

 

That's not entirely true,the truth was during Ice Continen-New Origins the devs then entire focus on class balancing was to bring all class up to Paladin's level of balance aka roll face on keyboard and stomp everyone, which is why have the broken beyond reality Dragonkin Classes since they're balancing actually got completed and none of the other classes really did.  Hell if sentinels ever get fixed the only class that would ever beat them would be Summoners and Invokers.

[UraharaStore]

Oh why don't you just try to solo by Pally in Black Claw Nest? (:|

Damn why are u changing topic? U were talking about "X-SPAMMERS".

[UraharaStore]

I don't see any weak points from earth master and destroyer at pve and pvp. What's the point here?

Do u see any weak pts from pally or savage? I heard Zealot usually lock people in PVP as pally.

[LinkKirby]

I don't see any weak points from earth master and destroyer at pve and pvp. What's the point here?

 

The point being made here was about classes being able to solo Elga equally, which as I said is pointless because if you wanted to farm bloody crystals quickly, you would NOT solo Elga to do it. It is faster to farm bloody crystals with a party.

 

 

The point is class balance which has always been lackluster in this game. Every time a change is introduced it has always been a nerf to one class in an attempt to balance it out with the other classes instead of buffing the weaker class to balance things out. This game honestly leans more towards pvp than pve and like any other mmo ideally you want a game where you can play every or any class without the need to think about one class being more overpowered than the others. Why spend so much time and money on a class that can is only sufficient on one thing when you can roll a class that's able to do EVERYTHING well. Dragon Saga has 10 classes but why is 70% of the population playing 3 out of 10 of those classes. That's why in an ideal world every class should be able to do everything in the game equally well. 

 

We're getting way off-topic of the original soloing Elga thing, but okay:

 

You make several good points here, I agree that DS has always struggled with class balance and some classes obviously dominate in general. The nerfs and buffs tend to be heavy handed, as well, which is why I get scared whenever I hear they're making balances. But having every class be equally good at everything isn't the solution. You can see that some classes were given better close range attacks, some were given better long range attacks, some classes can stun or lock better than others and some can tank lots of damage and some can heal.

 

With the classic warrior/archer/thief/mage choices, the game designers clearly intended for there to be "roles" that the classes were supposed to play so that even if your class wasn't the best at something, you might have a teammate that was better at it. In other games, the only reason you can play the offensive archer is because someone else is playing the supportive healer role (and the party NEEDS both of you to succeed). But in Dragon Saga only "offense" exists, so classes that are good at offense ARE "good at everything". I think that things like "paladins have the highest defense" should matter more. Like you said, a single class shouldn't be able to do everything well. Some classes have strengths but those strengths aren't useful in maps like Elga. That's the part that needs to be fixed, I think.

 

To summarize what I'm saying, classes should be balanced, but the game should also be changed so there is more incentive to be in a party instead of soloing (soloing should be less viable in general) and so that the strengths of different classes can be useful in some way. But really, we're just dreaming.

[Coolsam]

@drops1 Cause I don't wanna quote both Youtube vids.

 

The Warlock was done in a diff server's version of Elga. Where his HP was so low any class could face-roll kill him in under 10 minutes.

 

The Savage, and it's written in the description, was possible due to a stat bug. I know of the exact bug and it'd definitely have a massive effect if it ever returned.

[5143121023173906760]

@drops1 Cause I don't wanna quote both Youtube vids.

The Warlock was done in a diff server's version of Elga. Where his HP was so low any class could face-roll kill him in under 10 minutes.

The Savage, and it's written in the description, was possible due to a stat bug. I know of the exact bug and it'd definitely have a massive effect if it ever returned.

The stat bug is about buffs, every kind of bonus were giving bonus based on TOTAL STATS.

[Homurasan]

Does the X-Spammer can farm arcade mode easy ? No.

 

I played a Destroyer, and I haven't had any problem ranking triple S in mission map modes.

[5143121023173906760]

I played a Destroyer, and I haven't had any problem ranking triple S in mission map modes.

I guess youre joking with me, aren't you ?
I played a Destroyer too, I know this class can farm Arcade mode, thanks to gatling, sniper and shootdown.
Now, try to farm Kyros with only your Priest, without using your sorcerer.

Note : I didn't said that was impossible for X-Spammer, but just try to farm as fast as pther classes.

Edited by 5143121023173906760, 28 May 2015 - 07:42 AM.

[Homurasan]

I only ever use my Sorcerer to farm Kryos, since it's the only lvl.70+ character I have. And, uhm, I'm not joking about Destroyers, which are put under "X-spam" category... Earth Master don't have anything to complain about either, since they have many powerful, area of effect skills. I believe Invokers are the only ones needing some time in order to raise their score although the "Y" key usually solves problems of this kind.

 

Now, on-topic. Better nerf Ire-... I mean ! This dragon is already kind of weak, since it's motherloving huge and looks like it's about to bring end to the world, but has trouble one-shot-killing a lvl.72 Sorcerer without any enchanted gear or particularly high defense / HP.

Edited by Homurasan, 28 May 2015 - 08:32 AM.

[SoulSight]

Damn why are u changing topic? U were talking about "X-SPAMMERS".

 

I am talking about solo-ing Elga, sir.

Do u see any weak pts from pally or savage? I heard Zealot usually lock people in PVP as pally.

People can say it and you believe or not, it is your choice. And you are lacking the topic

to LinkKirby : I mean about being independent. That is the matter

[ohsnap]

The point being made here was about classes being able to solo Elga equally, which as I said is pointless because if you wanted to farm bloody crystals quickly, you would NOT solo Elga to do it. It is faster to farm bloody crystals with a party.

 

 

 

We're getting way off-topic of the original soloing Elga thing, but okay:

 

You make several good points here, I agree that DS has always struggled with class balance and some classes obviously dominate in general. The nerfs and buffs tend to be heavy handed, as well, which is why I get scared whenever I hear they're making balances. But having every class be equally good at everything isn't the solution. You can see that some classes were given better close range attacks, some were given better long range attacks, some classes can stun or lock better than others and some can tank lots of damage and some can heal.

 

With the classic warrior/archer/thief/mage choices, the game designers clearly intended for there to be "roles" that the classes were supposed to play so that even if your class wasn't the best at something, you might have a teammate that was better at it. In other games, the only reason you can play the offensive archer is because someone else is playing the supportive healer role (and the party NEEDS both of you to succeed). But in Dragon Saga only "offense" exists, so classes that are good at offense ARE "good at everything". I think that things like "paladins have the highest defense" should matter more. Like you said, a single class shouldn't be able to do everything well. Some classes have strengths but those strengths aren't useful in maps like Elga. That's the part that needs to be fixed, I think.

 

To summarize what I'm saying, classes should be balanced, but the game should also be changed so there is more incentive to be in a party instead of soloing (soloing should be less viable in general) and so that the strengths of different classes can be useful in some way. But really, we're just dreaming.

Currently the problem is that there are some classes that do WAY too much damage while still being able to survive which deters any reason to play any other role. Tanky dps is almost always in favor especially ones that can sustain. Alright let's just put the current topic into this situation before the elga nerfs it took 2 to 3 different classes to run elga sufficiently: ninja, dragoons, and invokers. Now all it takes is one class to solo this new elga and probably just as fast as doing it in a party which is absolutely insane especially for an end game boss. Still it doesn't solve the problem that was originally intended which is the fact that only a few classes are sufficient in running this end game boss and they are also able to excel in pvp as well. 

Now going off topic...This game has a history of problems and from my observation from playing this game for 6 years now it has been because 

1) A lot of the changes brought up during discussions even private discussions are never implemented and it's just all talk.

2) A lot of these private discussions between gm's and some ppl of the community turn into arguments based on biases of the class they are playing.

3) The handful of ppl that are invited into these said discussions don't know jack -_- about the game and pretty much are just active on forums.

4) No offense to the GM's but they honestly don't know jack -_- about the game itself and most of their knowledge is from the back end and their final decisions are made based on the players that don't know anything. A prime example is this new heirloom event that has greatly depreciated the value of these items.

5) Anyone that does actually know the game don't speak up at all such as I and we cry about it once the changes are made.