121 replies to this topic

[blackCROSSCY]

Jaye, that's pretty much what they said. The line has been blurred by third jobs, but clearly there were designed primary role and secondary role originally planned for each class.

Edited by 717348868, 02 June 2015 - 04:53 AM.

[MoyuZ777]

It would be cool if they just make physical as op as range attacks without lame boring cool downs.

Thats why GX RC is so awesome!

Edited by MoyuZ777, 02 June 2015 - 04:59 AM.

[Kadelia]

 

true to be told, maestros/wanderers are a natural support class.

 

The only support class is priest.

 

The rest are either pure offense or hybrid offense/support.

 

Actually, by time you get to 3rd class, they're all pretty hybrid.

 

Even Rune Knight and Guillotine Cross have support skills like fighting chant and antidote.

Jaye, that's pretty much what they said. The line has been blurred by third jobs, but clearly there were designed primary role and secondary role originally planned for each class.

 

I was rebutting the statement that performer was originally a support class. They never were. They were always a "half fight, half support" class. Just like Sage and Crusader were. The only full support class was and is priest. Magnus Exorcismus was not meant to usurp any fighting class, which is why it had a ridiculous casting time and low damage. It's an iRO customization that its faster and stronger. Dancer and Bard from its inception had the same offensive skill as a hunter -- double strafe. The only difference was they had marginally less aspd and HP to offset their 'half support' aspect while hunter was 'full offense'.
 

[ChakriGuard]

Alright since this topic has been derailed with other random classes xD

Im gonna just say that RG is the most heavily nerfed; has many offensive skills but 99% of RGs in PvP and WoE are supportives </3

Woohoo huehuehuehue

[MoyuZ777]

RG dps can be pretty OP for instances, mvping, etc once you become wealthy enough to equip it. Before that, not so OP.

Edited by MoyuZ777, 02 June 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[3452140212150117003]

^ BattleRg is legit man. I was a bit skeptical about it at first. But in woe, they have high enough hp + defensive skill that can absorb some damage in the front line and at the same time still can threaten to kill some one. But the only problem is the chaser and then again, that class seem to counter everything. So meh?

[MoyuZ777]

Chaser are so annoying

[Havenn]

RK underpowered....

 

I have heard it all.

[3452140212150117003]

^ They are talking about how physical Rk is dead. By physical, it is IB+BB or agiRK. But of course, DbRk is retardly OP in the right setup.

[KamiKali]

rks are OP as hell

[KudanSeishirou]

this is about close range RK, not DB. try to take DB from RK skill list, and i wonder which party actually want RK as damage dealer.

they'll become 2nd RG with Rune slave (where RG the extra HP slave)

 

Also, 717something, I really like your comment about father and son, LoL

that's what exactly what I'm thinking when looking at Rune "Knight".

[Havenn]

Do I dare say take away DB but keep WDB =X

 

jk, but yea I can see that physical RK is hurting, but yea...sacrifices 

[hotel]

tootz

 

edit: lol

Edited by hotel, 02 June 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Ryviux]

this is about close range RK, not DB. try to take DB from RK skill list, and i wonder which party actually want RK as damage dealer.

they'll become 2nd RG with Rune slave (where RG the extra HP slave)

 

Also, 717something, I really like your comment about father and son, LoL

that's what exactly what I'm thinking when looking at Rune "Knight".

 

you can say that about a lot of 3rd classes. Take away AS form the Ranger, would Ranger still be popular? How Raising Dragon form Sura? You take a key skill form any class and that would be trash.

[kasshin]

It is a pretty dumb and flawed argument in the first place. You don't see trappers complaining about their damage.

RGs can wield two handed swords too and you wouldn't complain about how you don't have skills to use this because you never felt they were "meant" to use two handed swords.

Pretty much ALL classes are "pidgeon-holed" into one build too, if optimizing for MVP, optimizing for WoE, or PVP. There are usually very good reasons why certain builds are "the best" overall. Truly unique builds that are actually effective don't come out very often; it's mostly small tweaks for optimizing or to accomodate new gears (or new stats for 175). Probably some of the only builds that looked somewhat unique to me recently would be aimed bolt ranger, or STR / megs manual warg ranger (this was used a few years ago already).

There are plenty of applications and situational uses for RKs with high STR (80-100 STR or more):

1) Crush Strike
2) IB is still a good leveling skill, and more flexible to use in some ways
3) Killing MVPs resistant / immune to fire or water. BB/IB out-DPSes DB greatly on those MVPs if you don't have a stringer / kiels. Or for general farming on monsters resistant / immune to fire or water, if anyone does general farming anymore...
4) Hybrid DB/IB builds, (almost) best of both worlds
5) Hundred Spears (do people still use this?)

Two handed swords in general aren't meant to be great. Two handed also means no shield, obviously. Lots of other classes are willing to sacrifice damage to go from a two-handed weapon to a one-handed weapon so they can use shields. Also, they're 75% to both small and medium. TGL is still a really popular weapon for DB RKs to stack with kiels.

You could actually achieve pretty good damage with IB if you use a high ATK weapon like Mjolnir or HF (on large). Like 70k without megs.

[3452140212150117003]

you can say that about a lot of 3rd classes. Take away AS form the Ranger, would Ranger still be popular? How Raising Dragon form Sura? You take a key skill form any class and that would be trash.

lol. saw this post coming from the first time i saw Seish's reply. But yea. Cant really deny that. You see, not all player enjoy sitting in front of pc and spamming 1 key all day. OP is simply asking to consider and buffing a bit of the "close range" or "physical" skill of RK, so that those who dont like db will have their place in the game.
Even without AS, Ranger still can survive. Trap, wrag, etc. And to help those ranger that prefer the trap build, the community try to create a special headgear called AutumnHB. Yeah i know that even Rk got one. But maybe OP feel that it isnt really enough and that why he try to ask for a bit more help. 

 

It is a pretty dumb and flawed argument in the first place. You don't see trappers complaining about their damage.

RGs can wield two handed swords too and you wouldn't complain about how you don't have skills to use this because you never felt they were "meant" to use two handed swords.

Pretty much ALL classes are "pidgeon-holed" into one build too, if optimizing for MVP, optimizing for WoE, or PVP. There are usually very good reasons why certain builds are "the best" overall. Truly unique builds that are actually effective don't come out very often; it's mostly small tweaks for optimizing or to accomodate new gears (or new stats for 175). Probably some of the only builds that looked somewhat unique to me recently would be aimed bolt ranger, or STR / megs manual warg ranger (this was used a few years ago already).

There are plenty of applications and situational uses for RKs with high STR (80-100 STR or more):

1) Crush Strike
2) IB is still a good leveling skill, and more flexible to use in some ways
3) Killing MVPs resistant / immune to fire or water. BB/IB out-DPSes DB greatly on those MVPs if you don't have a stringer / kiels. Or for general farming on monsters resistant / immune to fire or water, if anyone does general farming anymore...
4) Hybrid DB/IB builds, (almost) best of both worlds
5) Hundred Spears (do people still use this?)

Two handed swords in general aren't meant to be great. Two handed also means no shield, obviously. Lots of other classes are willing to sacrifice damage to go from a two-handed weapon to a one-handed weapon so they can use shields. Also, they're 75% to both small and medium. TGL is still a really popular weapon for DB RKs to stack with kiels.

You could actually achieve pretty good damage with IB if you use a high ATK weapon like Mjolnir or HF (on large). Like 70k without megs.

I dont really think that trapper dont complain about their damage. Afaik, some people (not sure whether they are playing trapper ranger or not) are asking for the AutumnHB to give it original effect and buffing trap damage instead of AS. 

As for Rg, i dont really know where you are going with this statement. Do you really want rg player asking for 2hand skill simply because they can use one? Or do you said this statement simply to prove that there are classes that dont really care about something that didnt matter to them or disturb their play style in any way possible?

I completely agreed with you when you said that all class are somehow "pidgeon-holed" into certain build. And that is what 717something are salty about. We are not asking to buff IB so that it can rival Db. No. That will be insane. But can you at least give that skill a bit more love ?  At least trapper ranger is actually a working build and we even have some player who dedicate themselves to that build. But as for IB? it seem impossible after 150

[Ryviux]

It is a pretty dumb and flawed argument in the first place. You don't see trappers complaining about their damage.

RGs can wield two handed swords too and you wouldn't complain about how you don't have skills to use this because you never felt they were "meant" to use two handed swords.

Pretty much ALL classes are "pidgeon-holed" into one build too, if optimizing for MVP, optimizing for WoE, or PVP. There are usually very good reasons why certain builds are "the best" overall. Truly unique builds that are actually effective don't come out very often; it's mostly small tweaks for optimizing or to accomodate new gears (or new stats for 175). Probably some of the only builds that looked somewhat unique to me recently would be aimed bolt ranger, or STR / megs manual warg ranger (this was used a few years ago already).

There are plenty of applications and situational uses for RKs with high STR (80-100 STR or more):

1) Crush Strike
2) IB is still a good leveling skill, and more flexible to use in some ways
3) Killing MVPs resistant / immune to fire or water. BB/IB out-DPSes DB greatly on those MVPs if you don't have a stringer / kiels. Or for general farming on monsters resistant / immune to fire or water, if anyone does general farming anymore...
4) Hybrid DB/IB builds, (almost) best of both worlds
5) Hundred Spears (do people still use this?)

Two handed swords in general aren't meant to be great. Two handed also means no shield, obviously. Lots of other classes are willing to sacrifice damage to go from a two-handed weapon to a one-handed weapon so they can use shields. Also, they're 75% to both small and medium. TGL is still a really popular weapon for DB RKs to stack with kiels.

You could actually achieve pretty good damage with IB if you use a high ATK weapon like Mjolnir or HF (on large). Like 70k without megs.

 

i do but it is more for Role Play reasons. Knight should use spears that sort of thing. So my RK will be a DB/HS hybrid.
 

[hotel]

basically if you really want to compare to other classes you have to compare with their less popular builds too. e.g. physical rk vs spellfist sorc or w/e

 

otherwise, it's not really fair to compare it to a mainstream build (like AS ranger) since the mainstream rk build (db) needs no buffs whatsoever.

 

you say you've made clear valid points, but the only thing i'm hearing is "rk's wield greatswords so they should deal tons of damage" and "i think severe rainstorm is more op than ignition break". no wait, it's actually "every skill is more op than ignition break, ignition break is so -_-".

 

pro tip: just cuz you can't go in and kirito everything to death doesn't mean a class/build is underpowered. physical rks have it easy compared to niche builds for a lot of other classes. they might not be the best, but they sure as hell aren't the worst.

[blackCROSSCY]

AFAIK physical rune Knights are not supposed to be a niche build. You have not really gotten my point and I find it hard to explain. I also did not ever said rainstorm was better but only arguably more efficient compared to IB. As for your Kirito comparison, it is completely unnecessary because we are talking about a pure balance POV for a legit class setup. In fact, that should be the RIGHT upsell for a class like rune knight, branching off the entire physical attack lord knight branch, which they not only undeliver but totally threw off the bin

The key factor is that the bulk design of rune knight is based on physical skills but none of it works well compared to dragon breath- which is not even synergised to the other skills. DB does not require any attack or any other of RK's skill and general equipment on Attack and armor.

There are very few other classes that are so flawed in design. It is clear which is niche when you see their skill set and know that the bulk of the skills are for a certain setup. There is no niche for rangers since both traps and as are equally valid, trappers have it hard too I understand, but that's for the trappers to go ask for (although it would generally not happen because most Rangers picked them for bow and arrows, which are insanely OP right now, so why would they complain?).

Even for sorcerers you can see that they have even number of skills for supportive or magic destruction. Spellfist is a relic of second class, third class sorcerers offense are just about magic damage with elemental and status effects. Most of their skills are useful for the character in different scenerios.

Now you turn back to rune Knights. Their unique equipments are two handed swords and spears, plus the BULK of their entire third skill set is about physical damage. YET you can simply just abandon all of those, because they are so useless in front of the one Mage fire button. Your entire skill set from first class to third class is unnecessary for this fire button. Doesn't matter what skills you had or what synergies you had, now you stack HP like a tank without care for defense and attack, and go for casts like magicians do. How is that design not flawed?

I can go on for other classes but I find it unnecessary. If you want me to do it I will, just let me know. Even if GXs can support like jaye said, just a quick look at their skill set you know they are mainly offense. Their entire skill set is beautifully synced with what tr class is supposed to do, high speed attacks, burst damage and etc.

Those that clearly don't recognize physical rune Knights problems, I need you to start playing a 175 physical rune Knights and compare it to other physical classes at that level and equipment. You will surely get my pain. the way it is now, might as well rename the rune knight to dragon rider without wings and make sure he starts from a Mage class since he clearly doesn't need the "swordsman" title.

I am pretty god damn sure the original design was for a smart physical knight that is complemented by spells, as a knight using runes to buff their attacks and stuff. THAT is completely undelivered and Hence the thread. Whether you agree it should be buffed back or not is your personal opinion but I state the class's design flaws as it is seen and your arguments to my stated flaws just does not disprove the fact we brought up in this thread.

Edited by 717348868, 02 June 2015 - 05:51 PM.

[Zagart7]

I really loved the kirito comment hahaha.

It's like applying alcohol to the wound and burn it.

The main reason why I posted this topic was because Rune Knights arent the best at any single thing, and every class (support builds, offensive builds, defensive builds) might not be all the most powerful at every single thing (unless you are a Sura, if you are a Sura, you are God), but they actually serve a purpose and it actually works. It is not an unknown thing that we all have alternate characters, so we play different roles on this game, those that we like.

On my personal opinion, DB Rune Knights might be the best build the Rune Knight can offer, but it doesnt serve for anything, and lemme explain why I feel it that way (just to let you know guys, I'm a DB RK at this very moment, fighting at Thor's Volcano, so I don't have a problem with the Dragon Breath Rune Knights at all).

For those who played at Chaos. You all know how unfriendly and hostile the game is. There are plenty of bots ksing all the time when farming at lower levels, at major levels, as an amateur player, you have it pretty bad all the way to lvl 99 because your skills are only good for single target killing. All those who have played at Chaos wont let me lie if I say that nobody really needs the Rune Knights for parties. There are those TI quests. I invite everyone to give a look at what those parties are looking for. Do you see any RUNE KNIGHT WANTED? No, you will always see the AB/AoE thing. And if there is space for a tanker, they will prefer Monk/Champion/Sura or Crusader/Paladin/Royal Guard because they can actually tank. Even the thief classes are better than RK path guys at Pulling.

When you finally become a Rune Knight, you are "ready for MVPing". I dare you all guys to not to laugh when I say that I will clear the entire Endless Tower alone with a Rune Knight. Go ahead and laugh, I'm even doing it myself.

Why I mention this thing? Well because you won't laugh at all if I tell you guys the same but instead of bringing a RK I bring a Sura, a Gene, a Ranger, a GX, a Mecha, even a RG. Im mentioning the most common Mvp classes, we are all taking for granted that support and tactical classes can't do such thing alone, an lets face it, we all have a support alternative character to help our parties, so the support classes might not be powerful, but we all love them.
Bring the best RK build you can with the best equipment you can. You wont be able to do such thing. I dare you all who call themselves gods of Ragnarok and pro players to take the challenge and do it. Let me tell you all that you wont be able to do so. And lets not talk about the mvp farming monopoly the Suras and Genes have at Chaos. You can rarely have a chance to fight a mvp by yourself without having a Sura or Gene taking the mvp away before your first hit. And you will come again after the respawn time. And it will happen again. And again. And again.
Rune Knights are not meant to be Mvp characters by default.

For the TI and bio quests. Why would you bring an AoE RK as your primary option if you can bring a Ranger, Sorcerer, WL (sorry if I forgot another common AoE class)? I go to High TI daily and my maximum output with both DB versions cant overcome the 40k. Which we all know that cant kill any mob at hight TI. Now again, this other classes can do it pretty well. Far better than RKs.
They "tank" you say. To be honest, they cant. Its a personal experience and other RK wont let me lie. You might think that RKs can do it but the truth is that RKs cand dosge every single thing and slide away like GX, they dont have a big defense like RGs, they dont have such temporal immunty like Suras (and can't slide as they do). If you had to chose a puller, and if you had the opportunity to takw the best of all the available classes, you will take the RK as your last option.
Rune Knights are not the best AoE, neither the best puller, neither the best tanker. And obviously they are not the best (not even one) support class (unless you activate all your Runes buffs and use Lux Anima, the legendary and incredibly expensive and hard to make rune so you can give all your buffs to the rest of the party which we all RKs know its like telling a fairytale).

For PvP or for fun then? given such facts and points of view (or even lies or jealousy, take it as you want). Going through all of this grind just to pvp and be one shot down by a lvl 175 Sura/Gene/Ranger (you can alway try to give a fight to preserve a bit of honor, but we all know the result) is certainly not fun. Neither is fun having to go through all of this struggle just to reach the end and look behind to watch all the odisey you had overcome and going back to the low level mobs to show them who's the daddy here like a pro power abuser because you can't face what haves your same level is not fun at all. Rune Knighta resemble the Rangers somehow. Both are made of glass, but while Rangers are glass cannons they actually serve a purpose pretty well, Rune Knights are glass tanks, which are meant to do greay damage and take great damage at all, but require a great amount of investment to do so and why would you bother to do so? If you invest on a Gene's bombs it will be actually worthy. Same goes for the tank thing. You can accomplish better things with that same investment on different classes.

Ultimately, Rune Knights are meant to fulfill the fanboy desires of those who watch SAO, Fire Emblem, Fate Stay Night or even like Knighthood by any given reason. I will mainly go for the SAO reason.

For a final point of view of mine, which this bible I wrote actually is, I will close by saying the Rune Knights are like a Mecha Frech Poddle with a glass armor doing the job of a hound or a bulldog.
Let the Rune Knight serve a purpose or else let it die.

[3452140212150117003]

If you really want to sao, go for gx. They can dual. 
When i play a class with "knight" in its name, i do expect it to wield and hold a sword. Not some stupid lizard neck 24/7.

[Zagart7]

Lol SAO is not my reason, actually I like the knighthood itself so I just picked up the class I liked and expected what it can do, yeah Dragon is a good plus but certainly is not all about knights, neither theorically and neither to what concerns to the game tactics.

 

If I had a fanboy reason to chose a knight wouldn't go for the SAO reason, instead will go for the Warrior Of Light from Dissidia. But giving such comparison would be against the rules of the forums. So lets not talk about that.

[MournHaibara]

I really loved the kirito comment hahaha.

It's like applying alcohol to the wound and burn it.

The main reason why I posted this topic was because Rune Knights arent the best at any single thing, and every class (support builds, offensive builds, defensive builds) might not be all the most powerful at every single thing (unless you are a Sura, if you are a Sura, you are God), but they actually serve a purpose and it actually works. It is not an unknown thing that we all have alternate characters, so we play different roles on this game, those that we like.

On my personal opinion, DB Rune Knights might be the best build the Rune Knight can offer, but it doesnt serve for anything, and lemme explain why I feel it that way (just to let you know guys, I'm a DB RK at this very moment, fighting at Thor's Volcano, so I don't have a problem with the Dragon Breath Rune Knights at all).

For those who played at Chaos. You all know how unfriendly and hostile the game is. There are plenty of bots ksing all the time when farming at lower levels, at major levels, as an amateur player, you have it pretty bad all the way to lvl 99 because your skills are only good for single target killing. All those who have played at Chaos wont let me lie if I say that nobody really needs the Rune Knights for parties. There are those TI quests. I invite everyone to give a look at what those parties are looking for. Do you see any RUNE KNIGHT WANTED? No, you will always see the AB/AoE thing. And if there is space for a tanker, they will prefer Monk/Champion/Sura or Crusader/Paladin/Royal Guard because they can actually tank. Even the thief classes are better than RK path guys at Pulling.

When you finally become a Rune Knight, you are "ready for MVPing". I dare you all guys to not to laugh when I say that I will clear the entire Endless Tower alone with a Rune Knight. Go ahead and laugh, I'm even doing it myself.

Why I mention this thing? Well because you won't laugh at all if I tell you guys the same but instead of bringing a RK I bring a Sura, a Gene, a Ranger, a GX, a Mecha, even a RG. Im mentioning the most common Mvp classes, we are all taking for granted that support and tactical classes can't do such thing alone, an lets face it, we all have a support alternative character to help our parties, so the support classes might not be powerful, but we all love them.
Bring the best RK build you can with the best equipment you can. You wont be able to do such thing. I dare you all who call themselves gods of Ragnarok and pro players to take the challenge and do it. Let me tell you all that you wont be able to do so. And lets not talk about the mvp farming monopoly the Suras and Genes have at Chaos. You can rarely have a chance to fight a mvp by yourself without having a Sura or Gene taking the mvp away before your first hit. And you will come again after the respawn time. And it will happen again. And again. And again.
Rune Knights are not meant to be Mvp characters by default.

For the TI and bio quests. Why would you bring an AoE RK as your primary option if you can bring a Ranger, Sorcerer, WL (sorry if I forgot another common AoE class)? I go to High TI daily and my maximum output with both DB versions cant overcome the 40k. Which we all know that cant kill any mob at hight TI. Now again, this other classes can do it pretty well. Far better than RKs.
They "tank" you say. To be honest, they cant. Its a personal experience and other RK wont let me lie. You might think that RKs can do it but the truth is that RKs cand dosge every single thing and slide away like GX, they dont have a big defense like RGs, they dont have such temporal immunty like Suras (and can't slide as they do). If you had to chose a puller, and if you had the opportunity to takw the best of all the available classes, you will take the RK as your last option.
Rune Knights are not the best AoE, neither the best puller, neither the best tanker. And obviously they are not the best (not even one) support class (unless you activate all your Runes buffs and use Lux Anima, the legendary and incredibly expensive and hard to make rune so you can give all your buffs to the rest of the party which we all RKs know its like telling a fairytale).

For PvP or for fun then? given such facts and points of view (or even lies or jealousy, take it as you want). Going through all of this grind just to pvp and be one shot down by a lvl 175 Sura/Gene/Ranger (you can alway try to give a fight to preserve a bit of honor, but we all know the result) is certainly not fun. Neither is fun having to go through all of this struggle just to reach the end and look behind to watch all the odisey you had overcome and going back to the low level mobs to show them who's the daddy here like a pro power abuser because you can't face what haves your same level is not fun at all. Rune Knighta resemble the Rangers somehow. Both are made of glass, but while Rangers are glass cannons they actually serve a purpose pretty well, Rune Knights are glass tanks, which are meant to do greay damage and take great damage at all, but require a great amount of investment to do so and why would you bother to do so? If you invest on a Gene's bombs it will be actually worthy. Same goes for the tank thing. You can accomplish better things with that same investment on different classes.

Ultimately, Rune Knights are meant to fulfill the fanboy desires of those who watch SAO, Fire Emblem, Fate Stay Night or even like Knighthood by any given reason. I will mainly go for the SAO reason.

For a final point of view of mine, which this bible I wrote actually is, I will close by saying the Rune Knights are like a Mecha Frech Poddle with a glass armor doing the job of a hound or a bulldog.
Let the Rune Knight serve a purpose or else let it die.

 

Jesus Christ this is exactly what I want to say for RG. And also do you really play on Chaos?

 

 

You said RK aren't the best at any single thing. However, RK is the class with the highest HP coefficient. DB RK is the most desired AOE in a Bio 4 party. I think it is still one of the major damage dealer in WOE. Even in ET party RK is very helpful to kill Ghost property MVPs like Bee

 

 

Now let's talk about RG. What is RG good at?

 

Tank? Sura is definitely the best. RK has more raw hp and with Halagas and Millenium Shield rune they can tank better. I won't consider RG a better tank than RK. 

 

Pull? RK has Spear Dynamo, which gives you endure for a certain amount of time, while RG has to miserably spam endure. Not to mention there are Sura and Thief class which are better mobbing

 

AOE Damage? Lol RK crush RG in this aspect. DB is not disruptable, freaking brainless to use compare to OB where in many cases you have to position perfectly to hit everything.

 

Single Target Damage? Yeah in this case RG is better than RK, but there's GX

 

MVP? Gene consider this a joke

 

PVP/WOE? I don't have experience in that. According to Chakri Battle RG is not that good now, but RK still has its position in WOE. Of course there's chaser.

 

Support? Yeah RG can support, Yeah RG has Sacrifice, Battle Chant, King's Grace, blablabla... However which of these skills are a must in a party? You can always hear party leader say we can't go because we don't have AB/Sorc/Wandy/Maestro. Have you ever hear any party leader say there's no RG so we can't move?

 

The only thing RG is the best it that it has the coolest outfit. There's no way you can compare the ugly big green ass dragon with the gryphon.

 

 

You also mention the roles they play in TI and Bio4 party. This part makes me doubt if you really ever played on Chaos. I have played RG and RK and had both gone through all the TI and Bio4 party process

 

In low TI, Pal and LK are basically the same, there's nothing more to say

 

In mid TI, when I play RK, I saw a chat says R>101+ AB/AOE, I get in, they invite me. When I play RG, I saw a chat says R>101+ AB/AOE, I get in, they tell me to GTFO. I have to wait till they say R>101+ All, then I dare get in to ask if I can join. Otherwise I just do TI with my friends.

 

In high TI, when I play RK, I saw a chat says R>126+ AB/AOE, I get in, they invite me. When I play RG, I saw a chat says R>126+ AB/AOE, I get in, they tell me to GTFO. I have to wait till they say R>126+ All, then I dare get in to ask if I can join. Otherwise I just do TI with my friends.

 

In Bio4 Party, when I play RK, I just sit in Lightzahlen and do nothing, and people will invite me. When I play RG, well there's basically no chat says R> ALL, so I just find a chat room recruiting many different classes (No RG, of course). I get in, they tell me to GTFO. Well Bio4 is too tough for me to level with my friends. So I beg them: " Please sir I have Sacrifice, Please let me join." Then there's half chance they tell me to GTFO. There's another half chance they invite me, and tell me to Sacrifice Rangers. So I throw away my lives and experience just to level up. Such sarcasm

[Zagart7]

Jesus Christ this is exactly what I want to say for RG. And also do you really play on Chaos?

 

 

You said RK aren't the best at any single thing. However, RK is the class with the highest HP coefficient. DB RK is the most desired AOE in a Bio 4 party. I think it is still one of the major damage dealer in WOE. Even in ET party RK is very helpful to kill Ghost property MVPs like Bee

 

 

Now let's talk about RG. What is RG good at?

 

Tank? Sura is definitely the best. RK has more raw hp and with Halagas and Millenium Shield rune they can tank better. I won't consider RG a better tank than RK. 

 

Pull? RK has Spear Dynamo, which gives you endure for a certain amount of time, while RG has to miserably spam endure. Not to mention there are Sura and Thief class which are better mobbing

 

AOE Damage? Lol RK crush RG in this aspect. DB is not disruptable, freaking brainless to use compare to OB where in many cases you have to position perfectly to hit everything.

 

Single Target Damage? Yeah in this case RG is better than RK, but there's GX

 

MVP? Gene consider this a joke

 

PVP/WOE? I don't have experience in that. According to Chakri Battle RG is not that good now, but RK still has its position in WOE. Of course there's chaser.

 

Support? Yeah RG can support, Yeah RG has Sacrifice, Battle Chant, King's Grace, blablabla... However which of these skills are a must in a party? You can always hear party leader say we can't go because we don't have AB/Sorc/Wandy/Maestro. Have you ever hear any party leader say there's no RG so we can't move?

 

The only thing RG is the best it that it has the coolest outfit. There's no way you can compare the ugly big green ass dragon with the gryphon.

 

 

You also mention the roles they play in TI and Bio4 party. This part makes me doubt if you really ever played on Chaos. I have played RG and RK and had both gone through all the TI and Bio4 party process

 

In low TI, Pal and LK are basically the same, there's nothing more to say

 

In mid TI, when I play RK, I saw a chat says R>101+ AB/AOE, I get in, they invite me. When I play RG, I saw a chat says R>101+ AB/AOE, I get in, they tell me to GTFO. I have to wait till they say R>101+ All, then I dare get in to ask if I can join. Otherwise I just do TI with my friends.

 

In high TI, when I play RK, I saw a chat says R>126+ AB/AOE, I get in, they invite me. When I play RG, I saw a chat says R>126+ AB/AOE, I get in, they tell me to GTFO. I have to wait till they say R>126+ All, then I dare get in to ask if I can join. Otherwise I just do TI with my friends.

 

In Bio4 Party, when I play RK, I just sit in Lightzahlen and do nothing, and people will invite me. When I play RG, well there's basically no chat says R> ALL, so I just find a chat room recruiting many different classes (No RG, of course). I get in, they tell me to GTFO. Well Bio4 is too tough for me to level with my friends. So I beg them: " Please sir I have Sacrifice, Please let me join." Then there's half chance they tell me to GTFO. There's another half chance they invite me, and tell me to Sacrifice Rangers. So I throw away my lives and experience just to level up. Such sarcasm

 

[3452140212150117003]

Rg. Jack of all trades, master of none. Good at everything yet excel at nothing.