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Be merciful and kill the Rune Knight or else let it recover its old Glory


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#51 Zagart7

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 09:08 PM

Well yeah, I pretty much play on Chaos and mainly level up going to TI parties. I didnt know it was that hard for RGs as well but I have been on all the TI levels in order to say what I said. Yeah you have a point on that, they still choose RK but only if they have space for a tanker puller, but lets be honest, for both RK and RG, there are classes out there that do their work better, making you wonder what's the real purpose of the class despite wearing a bling bling armor and mimic what the other classes do with not the same success, you can pretty much say it is like a buffed Super Novice.

 

Now it seems it is bad for both sides of the swordsman. already asked the Support team to review this thread and check if there is something they can do to balance a bit better the characters, not just the swordsman branch, pheraps there is something the other classes lack as well. Though it will need more players to actually complain in order for this to happen.

 

I have been bullied at pvp by so many RGs and Suras, but at least I can defend from RGs using Deathbound, which takes both of us to the grave (worth using if party pvping but completely pointless by solo). I have mvped a lot as RK despite the problems this class have doing so. I really doubt if the RK's Hp is the highest of the available classes, because having over 50k HP before lvl 150 while mvping doesnt save you from being 1hit K.O.d by any single mvp, even the mistress. And yeah I have over 100points on vit wearing an elemental wind armor or same with the Samurai Spectre (with propper gears). Have to point that the only way I can really mvp is by saving to buy bloody branches and having to go to a desert area in order for not being mvp KSed, or else ET, which, if you think RK plays an important role at it, I did an experiment, went to ET with my full party and sometimes I participated and sometimes just watched them doing the job (you can pretty much say that is mean, but hey, on the bright side, they didnt really needed me at all since they had Sura and Gene lol). The main difference is the same as you say with the RG, they just invest time on you ressusitating you all the time cuz doesnt matter your gears or HP, you will die so often if you try to tank, so you better walk away and let Suras do the tank job, or even the RGs, they last a bit longer than Rks when tanking mvps. Also, DB max output can only be achieved by having godly items/mvp cards which you cant obtain by yourself because you need them on the first place. DB wont go over the 50k on the best cases. And lets note we are taking for granted that DB is the best RK build.

 

Had a lot of problems with a Sura which farms the Dracula and Doppleganger at Geffen, everytime me and my party goes, there is that Sura ready to kill it, we havent had a chance. the name of the guy is precisely MVP and checked the ragnarok online player database and he's only lvl 100 and me 147 so come on? Are you SERIOUSLY bullying a lvl 147 well geared RK with a lvl 100 basic geared character with NOT SINGLE EFFORT at all despite the very basic skills?

 

To be honest havent went to bio4, but instead the lower levels, and me as RK get it pretty frustrating because of the same, DB cant 1hit K.O anything as other classes do, so if you choose RK it is because you dont have the very best at hand, so it will be always your backup option. RGs at least do a very good damage when single targeting. RKs cant use Millenium shield or deathbound against a mvp because you know, those skills are banned against such monsters. You wont let me lie if I say that Millenium Shield maximum carrying amount is just 10, summons a max of 5 shields at much, can be easily taken down by a dps job. yeah it saves your butt when receiving AS or GoH but if they simply do normal hit they will take down your shields easily.

 

Might as well have forgotten another good points about this but the point is, it wont hurt by doing a review to the mechanics of this job (now both RK and RG) and maybe doing even minimum boosts, that would change the thing completely. Maybe that would finally decide if the RK is AoE, Tank, Puller, MVPer, Offensive, (succesful) Hybrid by default or whatever else.

 

Post data, if any of you guys at Chaos wanna talk personally about this, feel free to PM Reliant. Wont mind talking about this on a 1 on 1 way.


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#52 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 10:18 PM

Mount is not wrong as we refer to the General DB RK, but some parts are not accurate.

Millennium shield cannot make you a tank since you block only 2-4 hits per 2min. RKs cannot tank compared to RGs, since most of us don't go shields, plus spear Dynamo reduces our defense. (Even lv1). Endure has barely any difference to spear Dynamo for the effect except for a different animation, both has no delay. In fact many pure DB RKs use endure instead since it gives mdef, which is better than reducing defense with Dynamo for hit (which DB doesn't need).

RGs are built tankers, you're probably not doing something right if a RK can tank better than you without a shield. The DB RK case in bio lab is common since DB RKs do hit hard and fast in parties, hence parties reserve usually 2-4 slots for them as offense. RGs and suras all need to fight for that 1 slot in a party for a tanker. I'd would prefer to trade in some DB damage for a more balanced rune knight play with physical attacks if the option were in my hands.

RGs are more powerful in physical attacks and MVPing in general currently with their strong defense skills and buffs. I do not disagree that RGs have a lack of Strong AOE, which is their downside.

Edited by 717348868, 02 June 2015 - 10:20 PM.

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#53 KudanSeishirou

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 10:42 PM

you can say that about a lot of 3rd classes. Take away AS form the Ranger, would Ranger still be popular? How Raising Dragon form Sura? You take a key skill form any class and that would be trash.

 

 

Those that clearly don't recognize physical rune Knights problems, I need you to start playing a 175 physical rune Knights and compare it to other physical classes at that level and equipment. You will surely get my pain. the way it is now, might as well rename the rune knight to dragon rider without wings and make sure he starts from a Mage class since he clearly doesn't need the "swordsman" title.

I am pretty god damn sure the original design was for a smart physical knight that is complemented by spells, as a knight using runes to buff their attacks and stuff. THAT is completely undelivered and Hence the thread. Whether you agree it should be buffed back or not is your personal opinion but I state the class's design flaws as it is seen and your arguments to my stated flaws just does not disprove the fact we brought up in this thread.

looks like my formulation so bad understanded. my point is, "close range" RK doesn't need DB, so it's like taking DB in their skill list, and see how party will behave against RK. you can't compare this to ranger, since ranger IS supposed to use bow, and even I myself often complaining about how OP AS is, but it still logical where ranger still using his bow.

 

Rune Knight that I wanted to play is something with Sword with the help of Magic named Rune. but as you can see, the useful physical Rune itself is just Crush Strike which doesn't scale on Lvl and as you know this is PVP/WOE skill that doesn't perform pretty well in PVM (except Demi-Human MVPs). how painful to see even Ignition Break is more powerful than Storm Blast, where this is supposed to be the enhanced version of "Knight" skills with magic. 

 

If only they change the name to Rune Rider or something and Erase every Enchant Blade path, and I wont be complaning like this. since the RK now doesn't deserve the name "Knight".

 

Zagart, don't even try to argue DB, it's super OP.


Edited by KudanSeishirou, 02 June 2015 - 10:45 PM.

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#54 hotel

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Posted 02 June 2015 - 11:16 PM

@.@ these essays. i'll just go on a limb here and agree with all of you  :ok:


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#55 RaveMaster

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 02:21 AM

you guys are talking about the Close range RK in WOE/PVP or MVP/PVM? im confused..


Edited by Legendario2300, 03 June 2015 - 02:28 AM.

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#56 KudanSeishirou

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 03:08 AM

PVM/MVP


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#57 RaveMaster

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 06:18 AM

i dont think a IB [Added Sonic Wave] build is weak.

 

Calcs:

IB is 11x11, [3x3 Melee; outside that this range its Ranged Damage 5x5+]

Sonic Wave = Ranged Damage

For example:

+9 Black Ribbon: +50% Sonic Wave/Wind Cutter Damage / +30% IB Damage

Tae Goo Lyeon [Better if refined +9 or higher] 2AS Cards and EA9 or higher = 38%+ Ranged Damage

 

Optional:

Peuz Set = 50% Sonic Wave/Wind Cutter Damage

 

IB damage also is based on your attack, so i will test 2 interesting FAWs Ranged and Physical

+9 FAW [Memblatt; in case the RK has good dex 80+] EA10

+9 FAW [Forgot the name lel i know that gives +5 atk per 10 Base str] FS15/16

 

@Sei, do u have a IB RK with SW maxed?


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#58 RaveMaster

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 06:25 AM

Also i have a personal question for everyone that participates in this thread and i appreciate this so much, what do you think..

 

 

RKs Melee/Skill [NOT DB] can MVP very well?

They're good at PVM; Able to solo without problems?

 

i know the answers but i want yours, i dont like the people that understimate the power of Rune Knights.


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#59 Zagart7

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 06:52 AM

you will have to avoid physical contact with the mvp for long periods of time if you dont wanna be 1HK.O.'d. Sonic Wave properly geared is really great to lvl up alone with bounty boards, yoy can almost one shot everything below lvl 130. I tested it at high TI but you better bring DB to that situations, cuz 35-40k the sonic wave does, doesnt make that much for the party.

You will be able to totally fight such mvps that are not stronger than the mistress by yourself. For any mvp stronger, lemme know if you can do it by yourself, because whitout a party I havent been able.
mvps I personally killed with SW/IB+BB/WDB build alone (not even AB/strings slave):
GTB
Orc Lord
Orc Hero
Moonlight Flower
Mistress
Eddga
Kiehl (The quest version)
Amon Ra
Pharaoh

The Asir,Halagas,Turisus,Spear Dynamo, Aura Blade,Enchant Blade, Lex Aeterna, Rhydo, Counterattack combo is really good for burst damage, you should practice it. Max damage I have made to a mvp with it doesnt go over 300k for a single hit but the legend says it can go up to 999,999 each of this combos.
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#60 3452140212150117003

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 06:59 AM

as for mvp-ing= they capable of dealing high damage against demihuman mvp using crush strike+kvm weapon. But again, the 30s delay. against other mvp, i will be honest and said that i never try. My damage is pathetic even to normal mob, and that why i dont even want to try it on mvp. I try to build my rk as agiRK and when i compare it to my gx, i dont really like it dps. As for soloing, with IB, you should manage to get 150  (but it is still harddd). And it is after that where everything seem to be impossible unless you go DB.
and even tho you still can build it so that they can deal high damage, just like what RaohSung said at the start of this thread; Using the same setup, RG probably can do better. 


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#61 RaveMaster

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:03 AM

5 days ago i soloed ET with Pure DB build, i ended after killed ifrit, how was? just died 2 times by ifrit. the next challenge would be solo without dragon will be HARD compared to a mounted but will be fun, pretty sure.


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#62 Zagart7

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:08 AM

I have the theory that 193ASPD high DEX 120STR with Krasnaya +12 triple Sword Guardian carded +STR temporal boots eith muscle fool will do an insane DPS over 20k per second totally instant re-spammable but to be honest, Im still getting the Sword Guardian card, tjose are so expensive - _ - playing double DB for the moment.
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#63 3452140212150117003

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:10 AM

as far as this thread go, we already reach on the same conclusion : DBrk is powerful. OP, if gear properly. It is the close range RK that we are concern about. And if somehow you have the knowledge on how to perfectly build it so that when someone say; "Rk?",

instead of ; "oh, that class that use dragon breath?",

they will think and said; "oh, that class that can use DB or wield a sword like a true knight class?",

then by all mean, share it with us.
 


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#64 Zayaan

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 07:24 AM

I have the theory that 193ASPD high DEX 120STR with Krasnaya +12 triple Sword Guardian carded +STR temporal boots eith muscle fool will do an insane DPS over 20k per second totally instant re-spammable but to be honest, Im still getting the Sword Guardian card, tjose are so expensive - _ - playing double DB for the moment.

 

Bowling Bash has 0.3 second cooldown on iRO and 0.5 second fixed casting time. If the cooldown were to be removed, then yes, you could deal good DPS with a 193 aspd + 120 Dex RK.



I know that's a SC, but it's completely possible with RK if the cooldown is removed. You can try it out on Sakray whenever it's back up. BB does not have a cooldown on Sakray.


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#65 blackCROSSCY

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Posted 03 June 2015 - 02:58 PM

We got no choice since we're sed about these odd setups. I can't even spam BB with Max aspd unlike a EDPed rolling cutter GX.

And the worst part I'm still stuck using this bowling bash because there's no spammable skills on the rune knight tree.

If you guys got a chance to see jRO or kRO rune Knights, their physical dps aren't so bad at all because developers did realise this problem and came up with counter measures like newer swords and headgears that make them viable again- stuff like old rune circlet and some unbreakable katana that autoprocs frenzy strikes. BB is also spammable there. Even enchant blade got buffed by allowing Matk into the formula, while ours only has int and base lvl--> I might be wrong about this but I nvr felt increased Matk boosting my damage.

It is like a unique iRO situation here because we won't be seeing these any time soon, maybe years. What I'm hoping here- as a very fat hope, is that we could at least implement the bio lab 4 nightmare or even just reducing the bb cast and delay.

Edited by 717348868, 03 June 2015 - 03:49 PM.

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#66 RaohSung

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 03:18 AM

Those feeling, if a Copy Cat doing better then the original....

BB +  Bows is freaking awesome. Its like casting Arrow Storm with an Ice Pick...

------------
Yea, I think a RK still does or can do some good DPS and surviving through Runes and HP.
But give a LK Skill to another Character (Frenzy) and it becomes better then the Original.

- Crit Katar and DD Crit GX
- 193 ASPD Crit Machanics (Lagging Def Options though, except in Mado but this woudnt make sense)
- Inspiration + Spear Quicken + Frezy RGs (Freaking Monster !!! Even with a 1Hnd Spear, But Zephyrus is the real devils tool)

- Rangers

All those Characters have more or better DPS then the Original Character having this Skill naturally in his Skill branch...
Sadly but true...

Physical  RKs should really rise and shine again.


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#67 ChakriGuard

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:33 AM

Alright there is no point to compare or even argue with classes. If you think your current class is underpowered, then change to play the class that you think is overpowered. Even if you play an overpowered class (ie. very common class in PvP/WoE) and kill other classes, it means nothing if you are not the best in your class area.

 

In this case, you can switch to a Sura or SC  :p_hi:  :p_idea:


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#68 3452140212150117003

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:44 AM

^ so better be the head of a dog than a tail of a lion?


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#69 Kadelia

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 09:46 AM

That's a good phrase
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#70 KudanSeishirou

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 10:39 AM

Alright there is no point to compare or even argue with classes. If you think your current class is underpowered, then change to play the class that you think is overpowered. Even if you play an overpowered class (ie. very common class in PvP/WoE) and kill other classes, it means nothing if you are not the best in your class area.

 

In this case, you can switch to a Sura or SC  :p_hi:  :p_idea:

I think we're talking about MVP/PVM here. close range RK already saved by Vellum Katzbalger in PVP/WoE.


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#71 ChakriGuard

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 11:54 AM

I think we're talking about MVP/PVM here. close range RK already saved by Vellum Katzbalger in PVP/WoE.

 

Sorry that I didnt read everything thoroughly, but the same logic still applies. If anyone thinks RK is doing poorly on MVP/PVM, then he is free to play another class that he thinks is doing well. Maybe a geneticist?

 

Personally I dont mind at all if they will buff RK in MVP/PVM area. Im not one of those people who always try to put down other classes, ie. RK. Just saying this kind of argument (one class is underpowered while the other is overpowered) always goes around in nutshell. 


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#72 ChakriGuard

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 11:55 AM

^ so better be the head of a dog than a tail of a lion dragon?

 

Totally up to you whatever you choose.


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#73 KudanSeishirou

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 12:01 PM

Sorry that I didnt read everything thoroughly, but the same logic still applies. If anyone thinks RK is doing poorly on MVP/PVM, then he is free to play another class that he thinks is doing well. Maybe a geneticist?

 

Personally I dont mind at all if they will buff RK in MVP/PVM area. Im not one of those people who always try to put down other classes, ie. RK. Just saying this kind of argument (one class is underpowered while the other is overpowered) always goes around in nutshell. 

I did, LoL

i gave up my agi RK on pvm already.

but since someone bring this up, i just give you some more information about it =p


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#74 MoyuZ777

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 12:08 PM

Remove cool down and fix gutter lines and I will pickup where I left off with my Rk :-)

Just like in that video
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#75 PervySageMarty

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 12:49 PM

Go play a wanderer/maestro for a few months and when you switch back to RK you'll be kissing your RK's feet and saying how much you missed being relevant and not afk during gameplay.

 

Truely your wisdom is above all of them Jaye! Those Plebians complaining about little trivial matters when the reality is that the performers are the most retardedly underpowered class outside of their one trick pony skills.


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