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Let's talk: HP Restoration Items.


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#1 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:42 PM

Okay, this is NOT going to be an autopot thread.  Keep that crap to yourself.  And I don't want any drama here, hit the back button on your browser if you're just going to attack other users for their ideas.  Instead I want to foster discussion, ideas, and how, if we even can, do something about an apparent issue with pots/healing items.

 

Now, I don't use mods, at all, not even RCX.  And I've never had a problem hitting a potion/healing item button.

That said, and I think this is the crux of the matter, is the quick and repeated button mashing to use potions/fish/pumpkins/etc.

Now, I don't know if WarpPrortal even has the ability to make changes.  But what could we do to change how healing items work?  Perhaps in such a way that it breaks 3rd party tools.  Perhaps in a way that you wouldn't even need a 3rd party tool?

 

I think the first thing to do would be to 1) make things heal for more and 2) put a cooldown on their use.

Maybe make all heals % based instead of a flat numerical range?  Weaker things could have shorter cooldowns?

Could we go so far as to have really awesome healing items but you can only use 1 until you are out of combat?

 

Maybe the issue is damage?  Do we need to scale back numbers?  Could we even do that?  I don't think WP has the ability to change the game that much.

 

I'm just tossing ideas out.  How can we fix this?  How can we make our beloved RO better?


Edited by MizunoAoi, 29 June 2015 - 07:43 PM.

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#2 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:59 PM

Then again, my mains are priests.  Perhaps we can lower the cooldown on heals even more? idk.  But it'd make support classes useful and desired again (what a concept!)

 

I've seen talk that changes would, "destroy the meta."  People rarely bring priests along anymore, I'd say that destroyed the meta a long time ago. WPH > Priest.


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#3 Kadelia

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:01 PM

Healing items should work more like the Medium Life Potion imo


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#4 Tofu

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:25 PM

Healing items should work more like the Medium Life Potion imo


That'd be cool. Would make acolyte heals actually useful too, for burst healing.

Edited by Tofu, 29 June 2015 - 08:26 PM.

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#5 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:37 PM

Healing items should work more like the Medium Life Potion imo

 

This is a very good idea, as it is well within what the game can handle.  Different items can restore different percentages at different rates for different lengths of time.  Thank you for the contribution!


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#6 Kadelia

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:51 PM

That'd be cool. Would make acolyte heals actually useful too, for burst healing.

 

Yeah pretty much this.


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#7 strafe247

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 08:55 PM

I always thought that consuming 100+ slims or eating 100+ pumpkins (These are big, and you got to peel them too!) under a minute is physically impossible while actually engaged in battle, holding a weapon and a shield.  :heh:


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#8 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 09:46 PM

So, that's it?  Lots of views, no more input?  Did we solve an issue that easy?


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#9 ShinobiEX3

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 09:57 PM

why not implemetn some foods into the mix u know like how they put it in ro2. some foods regen ur hp but it makes u sit


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#10 zilahmonsan

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:14 PM

Healing items should work more like the Medium Life Potion imo

 

Same like diablo right where you drink a 1000 HP potion and it restores 200 HP per second until it hits 1000.


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#11 Myzery

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:28 PM

People don't deal well with change.

This wouldn't work out well for Renewal and people play Classic because it has the same mechanics they grew up gaming with.

The potions would also need to be readily available on a lard scale, which takes even more planning.

Unless you change slims I guess.

 

I don't think changing pots or the way they work will satisfy the masses. It would probably need to be approved by kRO as well, which would probably never happen.


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#12 queenmastersmith

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:38 PM

So, that's it?  Lots of views, no more input?  Did we solve an issue that easy?

 

It's a good solution and pretty workable for both PvM and GvG.

 

I think you guys are getting the effects of Life Potion and Regeneration Potion confused though. It's the latter that provides a buff to incoming healing. New potions to address the issue we're facing right now would need to incorporate aspects of both.

 

And how would it affect competitive play? Damage is so high across the board that instagibbing will still occur. At least it would increase the utility of FS Priests and SPP Alchies. Full Tanks might experience a resurgence too!

 

+1 to the idea!


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#13 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:42 PM

People don't deal well with change.

This wouldn't work out well for Renewal and people play Classic because it has the same mechanics they grew up gaming with.

The potions would also need to be readily available on a lard scale, which takes even more planning.

Unless you change slims I guess.

 

I don't think changing pots or the way they work will satisfy the masses. It would probably need to be approved by kRO as well, which would probably never happen.

 

My original "Classic" characters got jerked over into Renewal and I didn't get a choice but I accepted the change, as did many.

The "Classic" server isn't classical at all in it's current state.  So that point is moot.

 

Yes, this is about changing the current system of healing items that we already have to fix the issue that many seem to have of having to mash a button to heal (which seems to lead some to automating the process).  And this might be doable on the Classic server without kRO's approval, idk.  Or, you know, ask kRO if they can test something like this on Sakray or something because reasons.


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#14 schia

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:44 PM

personally i'd like to see like a 1 or 2 second cooldown, along with a buff to healing power for consumables.

 

A small % based healing along with a flat heal amount so all potions and healing items can potentially scale up to be relatively useful past a certain level.

 

This will ensure that potions will always scale regardless of level increases and that you'll always be guaranteed a minimum effect as to not feel completely ripped off for using lower tier potions.

 

Heal over time effects would be great too, but need to ensure that they don't stack ridiculously to make sure we don't see people healing like 200% hp every second or something silly like that.  Maybe we could have fat potions give a % heal over time, and slims can give a flat heal amount and a small % heal.  Would be fun to experiment with at least.


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#15 Victoryblood

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:46 PM

My dream potions are like the potions from Dragon Saga.


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#16 schia

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:48 PM

My dream potions are like the potions from Dragon Saga.

 

it would help to describe how the potions there work since not everyone knows what you're referring to mechanic wise.


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#17 queenmastersmith

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:51 PM

it would help to describe how the potions there work since not everyone knows what you're referring to mechanic wise.

 

Just like Life Pots. They heal a fixed value over time.

 

http://ds.irowiki.org/wiki/Consumables

 

The best they have is called an Infinity Potion, which just heals you constantly until it wears off.


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#18 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:51 PM

My dream potions are like the potions from Dragon Saga.

 

 

it would help to describe how the potions there work since not everyone knows what you're referring to mechanic wise.

Apparently they're like what we were discussing, x amount of hp over y seconds.

 

edit: ninja'd >.<


Edited by MizunoAoi, 29 June 2015 - 10:51 PM.

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#19 Victoryblood

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:54 PM

it would help to describe how the potions there work since not everyone knows what you're referring to mechanic wise.

 

The potions restore hp/mp over time, have character level limits, are affordable and can be purchased from npcs.

 

Just like Life Pots. They heal a fixed value over time.

 

http://ds.irowiki.org/wiki/Consumables

 

The best they have is called an Infinity Potion, which just heals you constantly until it wears off.

 

lulz beat me to it

 


Edited by Victoryblood, 29 June 2015 - 11:00 PM.

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#20 schia

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:57 PM

That'd be interesting, a flat bonus to hp/sec heals instead of %hp?  Would be great for lower hp players, not sure how well that would scale for high hp classes like RK/RGs though. 

 

heres another idea: over healing

 

You can only use a potion when you're at 100% hp or less.  Using a potion that would over heal you would put your current hp to a higher than normal threshold.  For example, chugging a white potion for 500 hp heal would put you at like 1500/1000 hp temporarily.  Would bring on another level to the tanking meta.  Think it would go well with the % hp heals and such for the potions.


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#21 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 10:59 PM

That'd be interesting, a flat bonus to hp/sec heals instead of %hp?  Would be great for lower hp players, not sure how well that would scale for high hp classes like RK/RGs though. 

 

heres another idea: over healing

 

You can only use a potion when you're at 100% hp or less.  Using a potion that would over heal you would put your current hp to a higher than normal threshold.  For example, chugging a white potion for 500 hp heal would put you at like 1500/1000 hp temporarily.  Would bring on another level to the tanking meta.  Think it would go well with the % hp heals and such for the potions.

 

Only if we overhauled the system or you see people chugging many, many, many pots to inflate their hp. :heh:


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#22 schia

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:01 PM

Only if we overhauled the system or you see people chugging many, many, many pots to inflate their hp. :heh:

 

be sure to read my clause of: if at 100% hp or under.


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#23 queenmastersmith

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:14 PM

I'm sure overhealing could be abused with gear swapping. If your new HP value becomes whatever you overhealed to, even if temp, then an additional check would be required for gear that increases your HP, or people would be able to switch to say a tao, overheal, go back to unfro and retain it.

 

I can see a lot of ways for this to become a cash shop thing too, or have increased potency for kp spenders if obtainable elsewhere. If this was ever to become more than an idea, we'd have to be careful with its implementation.


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#24 Myzery

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:26 PM

My original "Classic" characters got jerked over into Renewal and I didn't get a choice but I accepted the change, as did many.

The "Classic" server isn't classical at all in it's current state.  So that point is moot.

 

Yes, this is about changing the current system of healing items that we already have to fix the issue that many seem to have of having to mash a button to heal (which seems to lead some to automating the process).  And this might be doable on the Classic server without kRO's approval, idk.  Or, you know, ask kRO if they can test something like this on Sakray or something because reasons.

 

Renewal was progression of the game though.

The mechanics are still the same, so the point isn't moot.

Items and other things have to be there to keep the server afloat.

Bad choices have been made, sure. I would count the Classic players lucky that they even have a vanilla server to play on that isn't a private server that died off in mere months.

 

People cheat because they want any advantage that will make them look good or get ahead.

There's a myriad of other, more serious things out there and it's funny that this whole AP thing is distracting from them.


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#25 MizunoAoi

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:43 PM

Renewal was progression of the game though.

The mechanics are still the same, so the point isn't moot.

Items and other things have to be there to keep the server afloat.

Bad choices have been made, sure. I would count the Classic players lucky that they even have a vanilla server to play on that isn't a private server that died off in mere months.

 

People cheat because they want any advantage that will make them look good or get ahead.

There's a myriad of other, more serious things out there and it's funny that this whole AP thing is distracting from them.

 

And this, too, could be progression.
The mechanics of classic, sure, but it's still progressing, what's to stop it from progressing more?

The items would still be there, just different.
I'll admit, I'm looking for ways to subvert the cheating.

 

If there's more serious things, try to open a thread like this concerning them.  Or pm me and I'll do a let's talk thread every week.  It's just that this seems to be at the forefront right now and I'd rather look for solutions than just devolve into a yay or nay autopot feature. :/
 

Edit: To reiterate, I would change how healing items work in game, the items we have right now, to function differently.


Edited by MizunoAoi, 29 June 2015 - 11:44 PM.

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